0:13 "Available with optional spike" Mechanicus: "That counts as copyright infringement."

It's such a shame because the predator is such a classic design that aged really well when compared to the new primaris stuff. I really hope GW supports the older tanks. I'm much more excited to see those on the table than the hover tanks.

I think the lascannon should have a damage profile of 2d3. this gives better averages and does a minimum of 2 damage.

It's not just a predator problem, it's a tank problem, I'm sure everybody has noticed by now that 9th ed has upped the offensive and defensive profiles of virtually all units except tanks, you highlighted in your video that the predator, the quintessential 40K MBT, has a similar durability profile to a medium walker. That simply cannot stand. I don't actually think invulnerable saves are the answer, as it's not addressing the main issue which is the overlap between good anti-heavy infantry weapon profiles and anti tank profiles, as anti-HI tends to be in decent enough volumes at a AP of -2 or -3, so you might save against a couple of shots, but enough will get through to at least drop the tank by a bracket. You could give all MBTs -1 damage but that might be stepping on the toes of DG and doesn't solve the other issue, melta, and melta like spam. The change to multi-meltas made the game inhospitable for T7 tanks, and whilst eradicators may have fallen off a little but, they are still one of the most cost effective anti tank units in the game. I think that it would be much more appropriate to up the toughness of all MBTs to T8 and the wounds to around 14-15, so predators, castigators, lemon Russ', hammerheads etc, keep the lighter fire support tanks and APCs at T7 11-12 Wds, and up super heavies (including the landraider) to T9; It creates more of a niche for S9 and 10 weapons, S8 will no longer be universally good against everything but it will still be an effective profile against lighter, cheaper tanks, and it will be harder for S7 and S8 anti-HI to dent them.(Before IG players tear my legs off for saying everything should be as tough as a Leman Russ, I think that the LR should have a -1 to wound against range attacks to reflect the thick front armour plate, but with a point cost to match this increased durability) As for the lascannon suggestion, I like it, I think the problem with suggesting upping the damage to 2d3, or D3+3 of D3x2 is that you further create an environment that is hostile to tanks without good cause. I mean, the dark lance(and the brightlance too when it is rebalanced) is balanced relative to the lascannon, but because of the current cap on unit toughness there really aren't that many opportunities for S9 to shine over S8. By implementing the change I suggested above, you make lascannons better without necessarily making them stronger. Consider as well that lascannons come in BULK, so on you are more likely to average out your damage compared to, say, the laser destructor on the gladiator lancer, which needs to help getting it's averages off.

Poor rules or intentional design to ensure that the new primaris tanks get purchases

the virgin space marine lascanon with D6 damage against the chad mechanicus lascanon with D3+3 damage

'[...] and... it's a one.' 'BuT tHaT's WhAt CoMmAnD pOiNtS aRe FoR!1!1111!!!' This is what a Rule Designer said to one of their playtesters when they brought up the fact that D6 damage(s) weapon are absolutely garbage and should not exist. I've lost hope, honestly. Take the latest Munitorum Field Manual. -20 points on the Gladiator Reapers. On what planet would somebody legitimately pick a Reaper over of a Redemptor Dreadnought with dual Onslaught ? Not on Earth I can assure you.

This video was fantastic. Well editted, concise, clean, and visual information was a huge bonus to the spoken word. Thank you!

Predators used to have a troop carrying capacity of 5 when introduced into the game they were actually armoured personnel carriers (hence the limited firepower and autocannon as the main weapon). When troop carrying capacity was removed to accomodate the razorback the predator ovcupied a weird not quite main battle tank but is a main battle tank problem.

Wow this game has changed alot, I remember when there was side, front and rear armor.

Pretty much every vehicle without an invuln sucks atm because of how cheap and efficient ap -4 shooting is. For a predator to see play it would have to cost around 120 points. This seems to suggest that GW has no design space to work with unless they add new rules to the pred. The new gladiator tanks suffer the same problems imo. They will only ever see play if their price was absurdly low since you cannot buff them and they cannot stay alive.

Your solution of D6 minimum 2 was bang on. Had the same theory when I discussed the topic of Preds with a fried recently. Of course we both could be wrong.. I'm still rocking my devastator squad armed with 2 missile launchers and 2 lascannons in a fluffy lists, but just can't find a reason to fit in my Pred ;-( The problem here is also that Dreads are pants on head crazy winners in 9th...

I feel like all Lascannon should have a D3x2 damage profile instead D6 for the sake of consistency and not being a waste of points if you constantly roll 1's for damage cause of bad luck.

Honestly I feel like Core was a mistake to all army's internal balance, since almost always there's a Core unit that's better than the supposed "specialist" options, and often a weaker Core unit can be reliably buffed to be better than any non Core. The dreadnought is a prime example of this, and also weirdly hearkens back to the days when the SM codex first dropped in 8th and dreads were the only vehicles that even got Chapter Tactics.

Rhino chassis vehicles are awesome in my opinion. I wish they were in the game. I own 4 rhinos, 3 vindicators, two razorbacks and two predators. Iron Hands are my tabletop jam it seems.

Incredibly well presented and balanced arguments - great job! Your killshot idea is inspired!

Great job! Love your presentation style. Hope you get more views and subscriptions, so here we are presenting comments to the algorithm. Take care and be well.

New to the game, lore, hobby and this channel. Thanks for being a well rounded noob friendly channel. You handle each aspect with the thorough dedication it deserves with out over simplifying the material

Huge shout out for the awesome video and the Ape Escape Soundtrack. Souchi Terada is a GOAT

D6 damage melee weapons are even worse feeling as the unit must make the charge too. This is why I blacklisted trygons from my non fluffy lists.

Think your Predator is bad? My Tau Hammerhead says hi. Two iconic tanks, so poorly treated...

You make some excellent points, but have you considered that putting persona 5 music in the background makes me want to play it instead of completing my pile of shame?

GW never should have made a hover tank for Space Marines :P

This idea is a bit radical but what if they did flat 4 damage? Still inferior to the dark / bring lances, constitant damage but not near the high cap, still outshined by melta most of the time but has longer range and higher strength.

I don't really play the tabletop, but I still enjoyed it, nice video, may the algorithm blesses you

Give it to the girls, add a battle cannon and extra heavy bolters, call it something like, I don't know, how about a Castigator. Hmm, might work.

Why only compare two predators when there's 3 (excluding FW and chaos) Everyone always forgets the baal predator lol

"Available with option spikes." *The Inquisition would like to know your planet's location*

GW doesn't want you to buy Predators. They want you to buy Gladius tanks.

I think the biggest problem with the predator is simply that GW has shown a lack of restraint when designing other units, leaving the poor old pred in the dust. It's not that the predator is necessarily awfully designed, nor that it does not function as it's described in the fluff (it's a medium tank after all, not a heavy tank), but so many other units have just got so many cool other rules and become weapon hedgehogs that the vanilla-feeling predator just ends up in a really awkward spot. I don't agree that a 6 to hit or to wound means "crit" though. Those rolls only show if you hit or overcame the opponents defenses, it says nothing about how well you overcame them. Only the damage roll does. And the issue with the lascannon seems to more come down to you not rolling enough dice (i.e. not having enough of them. Overcosted?) resulted in a very swingy-feeling weapon. If they're going to keep them few and far between then yeah, creating a damage floor would be a good idea, though I would go for 3.

I feel like saving the Pred could be as simple as letting it take sponsion auto cannons, also/or an ability to reroll the laz damage roll.

I'm down for just d3+3. Im a big fan of weapon profile homogeneity, with similar options available to each faction. Takes away from the flavor, sure, but it would also simplify balance and allow a unit's own rules/faction abilities be a determining factor.

Why I love Whatthe40k, 40k content, Persona ost

I agree with your points, though it's weird to see mouth forming out of a space marine's helmet... unless you're actually a possessed.

Reivers. Hands down one of the best looking models in the line. But their gimmick is targeting leadership which is underwhelming in ninth. I think can think of a few ways to make them worth taking: - Have them force the enemy to fight last. (This is a bit of a low hanging solution) - They act in the same way banshee masks do. (This was stronger in 8th, but being able to secure a safe charge for another unit, who is likely to make a go candidate to be overwatched seems cool.) - Allow them to reduce the enemies charge distance within a radius if they are the target - Turn off obsec for units. I can keep going. There are so many cool ways to make them great.

Jesus this content is next level

“Hunni, hunni, wake up! New WhatThe40K video!”

8:05 THOSE JUICY D6 Damage +1!!! Behold the Glory of the LAS!

Funny thing about your proposed las cannon fix? Still only does 1 damage to dreadnoughts😂

That seems pretty good to me. When I used to have predators, a twin linked profile just meant you could reroll to hit and do at most one wound.

If anything, a great shelf model to have XD

I feel like a lot of the reasons why Games Workshop does not give as much love to the classic Space Marine line or more traditional Space Marine weapons is because they do not want people buying the old kits. They want to sell those primaris kits that are anywhere between $60 to $120 a pop. Predator tanks are something that I never really owned but when I borrowed a couple im 7th, they did work in some games. However I quickly stopped using Las cannons and any weapon with D6 damage for that matter because it was just so inconsistent and it was not worth it. Melta weapons are much more effective now anyways considering that they will always have a minimum damage results and half range. We also now see that the adeptus mechanicus guys have special Lascannons that essentially have D3 + 3 damage mechanic, I suspect though that they will not bring that over to all lascannons.

I think a good balance would be 2D3 as the lascannons is not as powerful as the mechanicus cog is lascannons which are D3+3 so even then your lowest result should be a 2.

Lol, that thumbnail -"I want Horus's body found, sweep pattern double back, let's go!"

I like the wet pallet in front of our scholarly Astartes. A true man of vision. 👍

uh you can do the same Video with every Land Raider Class

I do wanna push back a little on the idea that the only explanation for single shot, D6 damage weapon is bad design. It’s high variance for sure, and when it doesn’t work (which feels like most of the time) it sucks. But 4 LCs can also kill a knight in a single round of shooting. So maybe the better unit of analysis is: what’s the best way for a marine army to get 4 LCs on the board? Devastators (also Heavy Support) are, I think, the cheapest way, with 4 LCs at 155 pts. The predator does it for 15 pts more, and for your money you get +6” movement and 7T vs 4. All I’m saying is, maybe this video is more about how Dreads are busted😂

:0!! That last song is from Phantasy Star Online!! Man, I miss that game!! Very good video! Agree on a lot of your points - will still field mine because they're so iconic!

Nice gestures of your presenter alter ego. I am delighted!

Feels kinda similar to the problem of the vindicator

Love your videos, so well explained! Keep it up! Helpful for new players

The Lascannon segue is essentially a rant on any weapon with D6 damage profiles. There's the beef right there. Its why 2-3 Damage weapons are so preferred because of the consistency of the damage bracket expected per shots fired, and its much easier for the player to type-match (explicitly counters the recent editions' focus on beefed-up infantry) and predict how their offense will progress... except its a dice rolling game, and the variance is what makes the game unpredictable enough to derive some spontaneous fun from. You brought up the eldar as an example for sophisticated examples of a given family of weapons: maybe the Imp variants as copy-pasted and poorly-understood bits of dark age tech do have that unpredictable performance potential. At least the orks are happy with just getting shots off. Frankly, the layers of dice rolling reminds of me of how gluttonous Battletech was with one's time; and this is after the templates and arcs were removed to make 40k more streamlined seeing as the melee layer to the game is what makes it stand out (or the maneuvering shenanigans involved)... Here's my hot take: remove the wound roll, and fold in invul saves as an opposed value to the weapon's AP. Gets rid of two prolonging dice rolls and gets right to hit+fail save=calculate damage, or a simple ineffective shot -don't care if it missed or was saved, the result is the same.

True reason: GW don't want you to buy predator

This video makes a fair point for the lascannon. But I have a much better question. Why is the default arguement for balance always "make it better"? This seems like a fairly narrowminded approach. Perhaps the correct balance solution is to tweak the points, change keywords, or other creative design ideas. There are even good ideas in tthis comment section on making them more "takeable" but not necessarily good. The eradicator arguement in particular is just weird. The balance discussion shouldnt be about making everything similar to one of the strongest units in the codex, thats how power creep really kicks in.

You had me at "why is it so shite"...

"No melee ability", and I smirk thinking of my Angry Marines Predator Crab with a mine flail.

My view is similar to that expressed by others in that there is too much overlap between anti-elite infantry weapons and anti-armour weapons. The anti-elite infantry weapons while technically weaker (lower strength) make up for this with more shots, you are shooting at infantry so generally speaking this is needed. However weight of fire in means it is quite likely that some wounds will get through (dice being dice) and with the damage usually being at least 2 means the health pool is easily dented and the bracket's even more easily reached. For tanks I feel their armour is far too easily ignored by these anti-elite weapons and a possible fix to this would be some ability to ignore/negate some level of AP although I'm not sure how this would be implemented.

For most of my CSM career, I've had only older CSM vehicles to work with and not a lot of the daemon engines, so all this discussion about the downsides of the Predator and Land Raider both hit rather hard to me. There's not a problem with having something be a potential glass cannon, like a Land Raider's potential 24 damage if you manage to roll high enough for all their lascannons, but with so much randomness that mathhammer will never 100% make it, even if you got units parked nearby to help with those crucial rerolls. Sadly you can't even get that anymore, with the CORE changes removing HQ support to all but basically infantry (not applied to CSM but give it a few months to a year) and the CSM warband skills not working on VEHICLE units (hopefully WILL be a thing judging from the Death Guard codex.) Despite the Forgefiend's Hades Autocannons being a bit more on the 'meh' side it still does far better anti-infantry and anti-armor options than the Predator, and with a 5+ invul can survive better against the current 'look how much melta I'm carrying' meta.

You got me with that thumbnail lol Great video btw. As a noob I've wanted to grab one for the "cool tank" factor but I've been on the fence. Since I managed to find an "ebay rescue" Vindicator I think I'll skip it. Cheers from Canada! I have to add that the more I watched this video the more entertaining it became lol Great stuff.

I always thought a glancing hit was when you rolled a 1 to wound against a Guardsman that you had hit with plasma/melta/lascannon etc.

The state of tanks in 40k is pretty depressing. I get the fact that they want to give weight to the actions of infantry and characters on the battlefield. This could easily turn into a tank battle game if the vehicles were too powerful. But they gotta do better than this. I don't know if they think there are too many predators and land raiders out in the wild and they're afraid of missing out on sales, but it needs some revision. Great video, thanks!

Easy solution: Bump the Predator and Castigator to T8 (The Predator always had better front armor than the Rhino in earlier editions, why not reflect this? And the Castigator is just a Sororitas Predator), drop the Predator's points cost by 20 for both versions (keep sponsons the same) and the Castigator's by 10 (because it's still a better tank than the Predator, so it should still cost more), and just get rid of degrading profiles because vehicles already have survivability issues as it is, they don't need to be punished even more. The issue Lascannons is offset by the fact that on an all-Las Annihilator you basically have four of them, all firing at the same target. Each shot has the same individual chance of hitting, wounding, and then the opponent failing the save, and then you end up rolling up to 4D6 for damage at the end. You have a better chance (not necessarily higher) of rolling at least one good damage roll because you're rolling more dice in general and each one has an effectively equal chance of rolling any result. It's still not the best, but it's a lot better than a single Lascannon.

Well Even if dreadnought is cheaper, it only has 2 lascanons. The preadtor has twice the firepower of the dreadgnought ! The main problem is that the predator won't be easy to hide, and will be easily destroyed and the four lascanon will only grant it at target mark on the hull...

I agree with most here mate. With gw addressing the lascannon problem. They have given it a go with the new admech lascannon with D3+3 damage. To award a player getting through those hurdles with 4 damage mimum is great. As for the predators not selling or needed, I am of the opinion its self sabotage so they can rebox them with additional parts for the sisters of battle. With sisters becoming the mid tier power armour imperium army or "guard marines" it is them keeping moulds that would just go to waste when they can bank on nostalgia and people who are frustrated with guard not being so great anymore but not wanting spacemarines, due to the troupes of them so sisters becomes the best middle ground possible

They're saving all this for the SM codex 2.0 next year.

I REALLY want to buy at least 1 Predator for my first army! It looks WAYYYY too cool not to own one! I LOVE it. Yeah one with Autocannon + Bolters add Missile for strong Alpha strike and maybe hide him in reserves if enemy has good anti-tank fire power?

I wouldn't mind the predators having such shit rules if they were at least cheap to field. In my mind, predators should be the dirt cheap workhorse tank to form the backbone of an armoured contingent - something that you can take a lot of and expect to get work done, but not expect any of them to win you the game. Lascannons should fill a similar role in weapon form if they're to retain the shitty d6 damage - they're the AV weapon you spam and get results with through sheer volume of shots, while melta is the expensive option that deletes whatever it touches. To this end, I think the base predator chassis should cost no more than 100 points, and lascannons should be 5 points a pop. Yeah, it's as cheap as a flamer, but really both lascannons and flamers are equally bad at their jobs so they SHOULD be the same cost. The autocannon and heavy bolter variant should cost more since they're more effective, but not cripplingly so - a 10-15 point difference between the anti infantry and anti armour tanks is enough. So this way, we're looking at predators only setting you back about 120-130 points at most and becoming a nice, spammable main battle tank. A killshot ability would be nice as well, but I don't think it would be worth it if it blows out their cost. Also, these changes would not just benefit predators - every unit in the game with access to lascannons would be very happy about them costing 5 points (devastators, havocs and heavy weapons teams jump to mind) and in particular if land raiders saw a similar reduction to the cost of their chassis (say, 180 points) and the lascannons were that cheap, then they would actually be worth taking for more than just a joke or nostalgia.

It's clearly inspired by the design of the Bradley IFV, so naturally it will suck just the same.

Now we're in 10th, I think the Predator still has its place on the tabletop! Points cost is good and each variant has a decent(ish) ability.

Next the Vindicators 😍

That’s a good fix for lasconnons

I think another unit that gets shafted is the hydra. It has a base 4+ to hit, gets a +1 to hit against fliers (sounds good enough), and gets a -1 against anything else... they also have a degrading profile, and their best targets still usually give a -1 to hit from being super sonic so they still struggle to hit especially if they have other modifiers. Sure, they are better than their pre 8th incarnations as the skyfire rule made all none flyer shots snap firing, but with the change in editions ot left the unit completely behind even in flyer metas they were somewhat subpar.

What is the best anti tank weaponry for astra militarum? Could you do an insightful analysis - as you always give them - of 'horde+tank' armies (like Astra Militarum or Tyranids) versus more 'average' armies (in the sense that they don't combine the two extremes of bodies and many monsters/vehicles)? I'm glad I found your channel and have learned to look better at the game. Thanks for all the work.

I feel like Lascannons should have a damage characteristic of "D6+1". It's not a huge difference, as it still has the effect of ensuring a minimum of 2 damage... but it puts in that potential for a cheeky 7 damage if the player rolls well, representing the sheer, brutal stopping power of Imperial Lascannons over Eldar weapons.

Where is the interior cutaway at 0:06 from? I think the issue raised about survivability is an issue across all tanks. Something I appreciated about the old armor facings was immunity to low strength weapons. An idea that I was bouncing around in a different chat was giving vehicles a keyword like vehicle (4), which would make it immune to strength 4 weapons. This immunity could go up depending on the tank, so something like a land raider might be vehicle (6). This would only be for shooting, but would require dedicated antitank to tank out vehicles, and without giving everything a 2+ save. As for offence, I can't see them doing this, but if you consider the predator is a tracked vehicle, it should provide a more stable firing platform than a walker or an imperium repulsor tank, so give it a +1 to hit if it doesn't move.

I think they should have done a predator unicqe ability like shooting twice, or increasing the las cannons to "predator pattern mars las cannons" S9 Ap4 D6+2 " Heavy 2 And heavy 3 for the turret

While you make strong points, there's a better comparison for the predator than the dreadnought. The problem with the comparison comes with it being a comparison with a unit of a different imperial faction. That comparison is the leman russ battle tank. They have similar defensive profiles, similar weapon options aside from the main gun and the biggest differences being the toughness and BS. Theyre both very easy to kill and have high damage potential. The main defensive abilities that guard get to help are 2 defensive psychic powers and an order to pop smoke and still shoot. These could be mimicked by marines. Perhaps might of heroes on a predator could have a special function to increase armor saves. And maybe they could get a stratagem to mimic strike and shroud. The next important buff that russes get and predators lack, is the ability to ignore damage with a stratagem called relentless. If the predator gained a stratagem like relentless it could ignore it's bracket for shooting and have one last hurrah before it dies. Maybe call this hypothetical stratagem "wounded animal" or "the prey has become the predator".

Some alternatives for the Lascannon: 1d3 + 2 - this gives a 3-5 damage profile with an average of 3.5 damage, putting it above even a stalker bolt rifle and the like. 2d3 - this gives a 2-6 damage profile with an average of 3 damage, slightly lower average 1d6 where 1's go to 2's gives a 2-6 damage profile with an average of 3.66 In fairness this is the 'best' configuration with the optimal ceiling (6) and the best average, although I personally like the 1d3 + 2 just for the consistency of being better than a stalker bolt rifle.

When have predator tanks ever not been underwhelming? They have always just been "That tank that does nothing your infantry can't do". Maybe I'm crazy, but to me a vehicle is only ever justified if it carries a weapon you can't field without it being on a vehicle. The Landraider has the same problem.

As an Iron Hands player, the Dreadnought is FAR superior, particularly due to March of Ancients which allows Dreadnoughts to become Characters with all the benefits that brings, namely Character Targeting Rules due to only being 9 wounds. For example, take an Annihilator and compare it to a Mortis with dual Twin Lascannons. Both are armed with 4 Lascannons total but in an Iron Hands list, that Dread can basically sit behind gunline units for protection and fire with impunity whilst using a Predator, it's open season. Furthermore, Iron Hands gain the 6+ FNP bonus as standard so potentially, there is a 1 in 6 chance to completely a negate 2 damage attack whilst a Predator only has a 1 in 36 chance to negate those wounds. Overall the Predator is in a bad state and FAR in need of some buffs.

Awesome work

Make it cost the same price at base as a double-SB Rhino (85 pts), including the twin LC/Autocannon. That way, at full cost for 2 extra LCs, 1 SB and a HKM, you're paying 135 max for a dedicated, non-core battle tank. That way, the quality of its wounds don't matter as much, but we can go deeper. Horus Heresy allows you to purchase upgrades to units directly with points. "Heavily-armoured" - 2+ save, -1"M (10pts). "Blessed Ammunition" - Once per turn, you may reroll one or all dice for a Damage roll (5pts) "Mechanicum Marvel" - on a hit roll of 6, you may reroll any failed wound rolls for those hits (15pts). Plus, give them the wound heal that Rhinos get. It is basically just an upgunned rhino, so having the basic cost of it be the base makes sense.

I have distamced myself from 40k due to a huge resentment with GW and the treatment of Classic Marines. Back in 8th i often used lascannons and melta weapons for my anti tank (mostly melta because BLOOD ANGELS) and it was nkt a rarity for me to roll consistently belpw the 3 wound mark. Even with meltas special fule which was already hard to get. I think GW has really taken the feel of the game and homogenized it, all anti tank weapons are either lascannons or melta, all anti infantry is either flamers, storm bolters or heavy bolters. It speaks to the fact the only thing thay got me through 8th were my Admech forces because they FELT unique, melee that dealt mortal wounds, snipers that could wound tanks, tanks thay got stronger by being closer together, hell, even Ballistari with their cognis "advance and still shoot your lascannon at -2" felt more unique than ANY other army i played

I wish lascannons and other d6 damage weapons had something like blast where depending on what your shooting it has different effects. Perhaps "if targeting a vehicle still operating on its top bracket. This weapon is d6+2" or something

Good point I thing it should be D6 +1 damage for a lascannon. With additional heavy burns damage bonus of +1 on a roll of 3or more on a D6 as the heat of a laser is not just penetrative but spending super heating metal and/or burning flash! Giving a mini of 2 and a max of 8 damage this would make sense for a strength 9 weapon!

Or you know 2D6, that's why Necrons dedicated anti-tank options aren't good except for the silent king

meanwhile Helbrute is for 110 but has no reduced dmg, 8 Wounds and cannot piar range weapons, no invul, no fpn ... but on 6 it gets angry I guess :D

What about krak missiles then? I would give krak missiles minimum 2 damage and lascannons minimum 3. That means Ad-Mech lascannons are both minimum 4 and assault rather than heavy.

"Optional with Spikes" 👍🤣👍

Right off the bat before I watch the video: YES. I'm seeing absolutely NOBODY in any of the groups I'm active in, who took the time to magnetise any of their rhinos to fit and field them as predators. And that got me curious, because... I want to field both my rhinos as predators when I feel like it; in both 30k and 40k

For things you can count, wounds, points etc its fewer not less.

Had another thought on this in defensive terms on T7/T8, 2/3+ saves tanks with no invulns. Firstly, I'd like to see weapons < 8str only wounding on 4+ ... this would cut down on +1 to wound nonsense making a mockery of armoured vehicles without affecting str 7-10 anti-tank weapons. Secondly, I think MBTs should have a rule whereby if the weapons Str is less than their toughness, any AP for that attack is ignored - again, this stops high AP but essentially anti-infantry weapons from glancing hitting tanks to death in old terms.

Best example is the Doomsday Ark with d6 shot and d6 dmg. A frustrating unit, the fact that the unit with DOOM in its name did not get D3+3 dmg is as frustrating as the unit itself.

The problem with the laser cannon is that it is not a good single shot weapon. To make it efficient, you have to multiply the shots to level the damage statistic (astra militarum proverb: you can solved any problem by increasing the number of cannon). One laser cannon is not very effective, eight much more. The predator's problem comes mainly from its point cost which does not allow it to multiply threats and firepower. A 150-point predator annihilator would already be much more interesting for its role. For toughness, a simple save at 2+ would be enough to compensate without using additional rules

Its based on a APC chassis. Its not SUPPOSED to have much armor or firepower, rather this is a light scout tank, maybe add a rule where they can appear from flanks of the map, increase their speed and reduce their cost. That said Space Marines could have a actual MBT available.

WhatThe40k: The predator tank has no melee combat functionality Me: IT'S A TANK!

I agree with your assessment of Rhino Chassis tank defenses. I play sisters myself and our Exorcist just got a heavy handed nerf alongside the Castigator coming out which, is nice, certainly better than the Predator but I do feel its main lack is in its defensive capabilities. I will say a 6+ invuln isn't all people cracked it up to be, it ONLY comes into effect against AP -4 (so melta weaponry, which admittedly is very HOT right now (sorry not sorry)). But I'd definately like to see my immolators not being immediately removed for their T7 and 10 wounds. Personally I didn't think the Annihilators offensive capability was that bad but I suppose I can see the problems. I think I'd be happy to see it get minimum damage 3, making its average 4 (vs the Dark Lances 5). I think Autocannons should be AP -2. That would make them more suited to the anti-heavy infantry/light vehicle role. I just don't see myself taking the auto-cannons over the castigator battle cannon in any scenario.

The problem with vehicles in general is that, without an invul and / or damage reduction (deathguard) or being utterly cheap for what they offer (raider), they do not have a niche in the current (bad) game design, in which even sustained heavy bolter fire can cripple a battle tank without effort. The killing power scalation after upscaling marines wounds to 2 (and the posterior overall increase at D2 for many weapons in the tabletop), combined with enormous AP values, makes tanks not worth their points cost. Another option I see would be to implement two AP, /damage profiles for the weapons one against soft and one against hard targets, For instance, the las cannon could be AP-3/-3 Damage 1D6/2D3 to represent the difficulty to aim to a Infantry model, and the heavy bolter could be AP-1/-1 D2/D1 to represent the less damaging nature of heavy bolter shells on hard targets as tanks...

I wonder if a Lascannon minimum damage of 3 *for just the Annihilator* would be enough to shift the meta. You'd need to give the Destructor something, too. Especially since Las sponsions on a Destructor would suddenly start to look really bad. Chaos Predators are even worse off, especially for Death Guard. I don't even know where to start salvaging those.

I think that all units should be more flexible in construction, like the way in HH there are add ons that cost points to upgrade offence and defence.