Exactly. In fact ETA recommends using the hand winding only to get the watch started, and using the automatic rotor to do the rest of the job. NH35 on the other hand, you can abuse however you want and it'll keep on ticking. Hell of a workhorse.

With the exception of tissot, I've always thought all the other watches makers you mentioned are extremely overated and over priced. And now, from this video and comment section I know the sellita movement is delicate garbage

@@AvidUTuber tossit is also garbage

Ok, well... "unrefined nature" when comparing a crap design to a good one is an odd way to refer to the latter

​@@khrttartrahht4188 We own two cars. A Mercedes C350 Coupe and a Toyota Corolla. The Mercedes is much more luxurious and infinitely more refined. Will it last as long as the more unrefined Corolla? Nope. Two things can be true at the same time. Same with the movements I mentioned.

I stopped the video at that point and blocked this channel

he also talks smack about the nh35 having plastic parts. conveniently forgetting the very expensive powermatic 80 has plastic parts for critical components

@@garylangford6755 if you call powermatic 80 very expensive, i don't know what you'll call for the real swiss watches

Hmm interesting. I just getting into watches and from the comment section , people are still saying the sellita is overpriced garbage

@@AvidUTuber I would never hesitate to buy a watch with a Sellita. In my experience, they're solid and easily equal to or better than the ETA movements the design copies. As to whether they're overpriced, that's a whole other conversation, but I wouldn't call them junk relative to any other movement around that price.

Yea the ne15 ne25 6r 6l etc series is to rival 2824-2 and sw200 and all its variant, but on the spec sw200 still end up with better spec overall and a lot cheaper than seiko

To be fair he's showing the expensive 2824 clone here, seagull make she st2130, and another company makes the pt5000, these are both Chinese clones of the 2824, as opposed to Swiss clones, they can be had for around 50ish dollars about the same as nh35, in my ill informed opinion the Chinese 2824s are just as good as the Swiss clones, they all will break from handwinding all the same💀 nh35 feels better wind in my opinion, my 2824 clone feels like in grinding gravel when I wind it

​@@AvidUTuberthey are likely saying this because it is a mundane movement put in watches that cost in the 4 figures, some companies will make small mods to sw200s and call the movements "in house" and ask for more money, another reason people call it overpriced is bc of the focus on longer power reserves instead of smoother second hand sweep (the amount of times the second hand moves per second) the nh35 and miyota 8000 series have 3hz (1hz equates to 2 "tick" of the second hand per second, 3hz=6 beats per second) the sw200 is a "high beat" or a 4hz (8 ticks per second) due to the focus on power reserve, Swiss companies created the powermatic 80 (modified 2824 (2824 is what the sw200 is based off) that is 6hz instead of 8hz, but gets 30 hours more power reserve) these Swiss companies put the powermatic 80 in every cheap watch they have, and as a result the sw200/eta 2824 watches with 4hz moved more upmarket, meaning if you want a Swiss watch with 4hz sweep, you're basically going to have to pay about 1 thousand dollars (unless you buy micrbrands, that's another story) this is a reason why people say they are overpriced, seiko also did something similar with essentially moving their 4hz movements up to the 2000 dollar range.

Agree. This is an informative video but I'd like to see a movement comparison with a Seiko choice in a similar price category as SW or ETA.

After spending more than 5000$ to tissot watches, with more than 750$ of it to service costs, I decided to learn a bit, how to do my own service and after understanding mechanism of std automatic watches I started to ask this question, "why those swiss watches are so expensive" At the end, a simple automatic watch, without any serious complication, can be serviced by any hobiest who has proper equipment and when you put it into pieces, you also clearly see that, there is no rocket science behind it. So what is the difference between, a swiss movement and for example, a japanese one. My short answer is there is no significant difference according to my experience, my japanese movements seems to be more robust. I am telling this, because I build my own watch, with miyota 8215 movement and throw in a box all my tissots. At the end, tissots were causing me trouble every 3-5 years and I had to spend each time 200-300$. But, my own production:)) is perfectly working, since more than 6 years and it keeps time good enough (with +10sec per day). In my opinion, such performance is quite acceptable for a 100$ watch. Long story short, use your money for something useful, rather than making rich swiss people richer:))

It looks like promo video to me

They are more superior to Swiss counterparts in the sense they don't break easily compared to their swiss counterparts and is more affordable.

They are though…

Only serve to fuel watch snobs.

Exactly. It's like comparing an Audi A4 to a Honda Accord. One costs a bit more, and you get more for that premium. The nh35 and 36 are made for entry level micro brands. You can spend around 100-250 on a watch with the nh35/36 and you're gonna get a super reliable and accurate watch. I've got an Invicta pro diver with the nh35 and it keeps accurate time for a couple weeks. It's a fantastic watch that cost me 90 bucks brand new.

I think he addressed that issue in 1:37 fairly.

Europeans, as usual

Incorrect

@@whereRbearsTeeth Oh my bad nevermind guys j was wrong thank you I was about to interview at Lockheed Martin glad you called my mistake

😂

There isn’t much difference between the 6R and 4R they are basically the same

The construction of the 6R is not much different from the 4R. 6R gets better material in main spring and the balance assembly and that's about it.

@@tilio9380I’ve also read the 6r is not as easily regulated as the 4r.

This isn't even a comparison. The title says "why an SW200 is more expensive than an NH35". It's precisely meant to illustrate the difference between price-points - NOT as an apples v. apples comparison. Could also have called it "Here's what you're getting if you upgrade to the next higher tier of commonly available movements".

@@Mikael5732 There the same to be fair

9015 best

We do have to take into account that SW200 is basically a ETA2824, and that design is pretty dated and it comes with baggage, so to speak. NH35 went through quite a few evolutions and it is one heck of a workhorse. On the date change, perhaps the video didn't do a good job describing it, but what I was trying to say is that it takes much longer for NH35 go from the start of date transition to the actual transition. On sw200 it's about half an hour in real time and on NH35 it's waaay longer.

9015 is a lovely movement

@@DIYWatchClub Unless you have to service it and realise that too many pinions have to get in to holes at once... Miyota movements are just like that.

@@DIYWatchClubInteresting but how come my ETA 2836 has an instantaneous day-days change? Shouldn’t the Sellita as well if it’s a clone of the 2824?

I have the khaki field king and it's just spot on

The Sellita is kind of a delicate movement. The good thing about being a 2824 clone is that literally every watchmaker knows how to service it.

@@DIYWatchClub And the better thing is that you never need a watchmaker for a Seiko NH34.

@@avronaut LOL! How true.

That's a good idea for a video!

Reverser wheels are fairly straight forward if you choose the right lubricant. The ratchet wheel is easy to access and swap, and is also inexpensive. The only issue I can think of, is that you might have sheared off teeth as a result of aggressive handwinding. If these teeth have migrated elsewhere into the movement, you may want to consider a service.

Interestingly, ETA 2824 never had problems with ratchet wheel breakage, and stucking reversing wheels (only pivot wear in some service neglected movements). I even encountered second wheel (first after the barrel) teeth wear, ball bearing wear, in reversers - wear in holes for pawls. Just Sellita uses inferior metals, for exapmle, where ETA uses beryllium copper of Glucydur, Sellita uses plain brass, that's why reversers wear out fast and get sticky

@@dima343. I wouldn't know, since I haven't seen too many original ETA 2824. I know that some reversing wheel issues existed even with that movement, which were largely tied to lubrication issues. (helicopter rotor) It's quite possible that the Sellita ratchet wheel is inferior, and I've always wondered if that wheel was sacrificial by design.

@@dima343. Interesting, thanks for the info!

Exactly.

I perhaps didn't describe it clearly enough in the video. What I mean is, the NH takes longer to go from the start of date transition (when the date change mechanism is engaged and starts to transition) to the actual transition at midnight, the click, which both movements should do if cased well. The NH transition started way earlier than midnight, and it took that long to go from start to finish. So, no, it's not a matter of alignment of time.

sellita in a San Martin? that's interesting, from the little research I did when I was considering them they only used NH movements and the occasional miyota 9000 series

i stand corrected, just looked it up, sw200 AND A WATCH for £385 is wild

👋 what kind of stocks? Medium entry level stocks or growth stocks 🤔 ✌️ from South Africa 🇿🇦

There's a time and place for both. Casio's great for when traveling or golfing. Rolex are great if you have the money for it and appreciate horology and luxury.

Dumbest comment I’ve read in quite some time

And most casio are quite ugly to me but for durability, accuracy, reliability and low cost it's hard to beat a G shock. But I still think they are plain plastic watches.

More difficult is a relative term. The SW-200 is easier to access. The NH35, especially on the side of the wheel train, is more like a guided tour. Even if you didn't know the movement, there is also one logical next step in the reassembly and assembly. The SW200 has some odd pitfalls, such as not removing the stem from the right position, which may force you to take parts of the front of the movement apart, just when you thought you had fully assembled a watch. But in the end these differences are minute, if you know what you are doing. Also, if you are going for an inexpensive replacement route, you can buy ETA2824 clones for maybe $5 more than you'd pay for the NH35. These clones aren't pretty, but they are functional. In the end, you shouldn't have much of a service issue with any standard movement.

I would say from experience, any of the Seiko 7S/4R based movements are very easy and logical to service. it typically takes less time to service them than 2824 based movements.

What's that?

And considerably more reliable. I can't tell you how many reverser wheel sets I have replaced over 20 years of professional watchmaking. I can remember the singular 1969 6105 magic lever pawl I replaced because it was so "out of the ordinary". But truth be told, Seiko got the magic lever idea from the Swiss (JLC), and reinvisioned it with only 2 components.

Thanks for the sub! That's some interesting movements for comparison. I'll see if I can track down any of those.

We are releasing a SW200 kit as we speak!

Here you go! shop.diywatch.club/collections/diy-swiss-watch-kit?fbclid=IwAR13Zj0-mQCE3jHdV1W_Cihi1QlSoqz5YZ9UndfGppQhwfvPWHgs8zIRrHY

Much appreciation and respect to all these watch companies.

Agreed. Similar price, and we love the 9015

Though some high end movements has real perpetual calendars, both movements in the video are much more basic and it simply doesn't know, you advance it manually on 30 day months.

They're the same movement so the 4R movements also have plastic gears

That's true to the folks at Seiko and watch companies. For us end users though, ease of servicing is still quite desirable.

@@DIYWatchClub I was thinking of myself as the layman (an enthusiast but with no watch repairing skills). Cheaper for me to buy a new NH35 and get a watchmaker to swap it over than to ask them to service it!

TMI is SEIKO group, this is a SEIKO movement manufactured outside of Japan. Like a Volkswagen made in Mexico, or a Mercedes made in USA. Nobody would say, that a VW or a Mercedes manufactured outside of Germany are not german cars... 🙂

日本の技術を楽しみたいのであれば、MADE IN JAPANを購入して下さい!

Don't get me wrong. I still love NH35. It's a miracle of a movement. I sometimes still wonder how it's possible to make a reliable af movement at that ridiculous price.

@@DIYWatchClub The reason Seiko can produce cheap reliable movements is simply because they sell their movements for the right price while ETA and Sellita are outrageously overpriced.

Seiko equivalent of 2824-2 is the 6r 6l ne15 ne25 and a lot more expensive too at that

The sw200 is at least one price bracket higher than the nh35

@@DIYWatchClubyes but how many USD dollars is each one?

NH35 is around 25$ while the SW200 is close to 200$ range

@ thanks

Getting a Chinese 2824 clone is perfectly fine choice to start with. We once disassembled one, man it was so drenched in oil that the US army could invaded it. And its performance deteriorated quickly. But with proper servicing and oiling, it went back to okayish performance. It's an inexpensive choice to get to know the in and outs of a 2824. Not recommended for anything more.

@@DIYWatchClub Performance can vary. I have an ST2130 and also a pt5000 in two of my watches. They are both fine watches. I have heard of other people having issues with theirs but I have had good experience with mine. I have also heard that as time goes on they are improving the quality control on both these movements. People are reporting well oiled and beautifully regulated performance from their PT5000. Yes, I know, Swiss movements are better movements. In my view, I would not put a swiss movement into a hobby watch. Its over kill. If you buy a name brand watch then its ok. Hobby watches usually have very little residual value so you might as well use generic movements.

@@glenh4971 Good to hear that the Chinese is improving their quality control. This is going to benefit hobbyists so much.

If you already know all of this, then the vid wasn't meant for you. It was meant for people who are more towards the beginning of their learning curve. Nobody needs you to comment to try and show how much you know.

And spicy it did get. IMO it always is a good thing to get a healthy discussion going. I'm having a blast reading all the first hand experience with both movements.

EXCELLENT watch!! Seiko is one of the world's best watches

It can be produced in Japan, in Malaysia, and as some rumors have it, in China. But the country of origin doesn't seem to affect the quality of the movement, given that it's a real Seiko/TMI movement.

The NH35 is the export version of the 4R35. The only difference is that the 4R35 has Seiko branding and is only available in Seiko watches while the NH35 has no branding and is sold to microbrands. However both movements are manufactured by Seiko.

Y que me puedes contar del 4r39 que diferencia hay con los suizos en esaxtitud