Finally, someone who is not gushing about the Tissot Powermatic 80 movement. Thank you so much for your honesty.

You are absolutely right. The watch industry is no better than others. Minimising input while maximising revenue. All wrapped up in a few warm words.

Plastic escape wheel, plastic pallet fork, plastic durability.... Personally, I think Tissot should use wood instead of plastic, which would be more environmentally friendly, and in addition, the watch would generate a nice supply of very fine sawdust to mop up any surplus moebius left hanging around the escapement.

Potential Tissot customer...lost.😮

If you compare the plastic escapement of the Swatch 2840 - used in the pre-Sistem 51 - you will find exactly this pallet fork and escapement wheel. It isn't even new, it is old... And the major joke: The pallet fork needs lubrication, a special Moebius grease.

Made a nice change from the usual watch content, wish there were more channels exposing this kind of cost cutting.

The Swatch Group is killing it, literally. ‘Swiss Made’ has become a mockery, especially for entry-level watches!

There's several versions os the Powematico 80 movements and the plastic component is not present in all of them, such in the Ballade Cosc and Seastar.

Thank you for being honest as a professional in watchmaking.. because not everybody know about that "plastic" thing, and the advertising obviously not mentioning that thing very clear.. so, if we're not a watch enthusiast, maybe we didn't even notice about that problem in long term usage. That's also the reason I choose the green Tissot PRX 40mm in quartz version.. because for the price it's ask, I think it's worth the value.

ABSOLUTELY FASCINATING. I have had some Tissots with good results. Currently still have the NON-Powermatic Visodate with less power reserve but more smoothness regarding the second hand. I presume Tissot will explain away the plastic escapement as a weight-saving measure as well as a means to keep the cost to the consumer down. At least Hamilton spelled backwards is Notlimah which has no negative connotation.

I have this watch in its original form, before the Powermatic 80. It keeps time better than my CHR Ward chronometer which was over double the price, as does my other Tissot (T Sport from 2010). Tissot are excellent watches - accurate and great value for money.

There’s a reason why Tissot spelled backwards is “Toss it”. They’ve been making bad decisions. I’ve seen it with the Swissmatic… a literal unserviceable movement because it’s glued together (no screws). What the actual hell.

I have this watch. It works great, lovely piece. Plastic: Does it matter if a) it works well, and b) it has durability, c) it reduces wear? But yeah, your rage is palpable.

Hello Kalle, wonderful video. Big fan of your work, Christiaan Huygens would be proud! I sent you an urgent email, forgive me for pestering you about it here, but please let me know your thoughts as, well, time is of the essence. Thanks again and keep up the great work. Best regards, TGV

It’s well known that the C07.111 has a plastic escapement. C07.6xx version has a regular escapement. C07.8xx version has a regular escapement plus a silicon balance spring. I agree, plastic pallet fork and escape wheel has no place in a Swiss movement. C07.1xx movements are considered disposable- the movement typically costs less than a service. All the auto Tissot PRX line has the plastic escapement. The Gentleman line has the regular escapement. I’m somewhat surprised to learn the plastic escapement (C07.1xx) is in the Le Locle line which is Tissot’s biggest seller worldwide. I’m not a fan of the line, which costs basically the same as the Gentleman. I guess the takeaway is be suspicious of a modified/updated 2824 ETA movement with 23 jewels lol (they are here to stay)

Wow really would not expect plastic from Tissot!! I’m almost as peeved as you Kalle 🤣 almost lol thanks for the vid.

I learned this a while ago and it completely blew me away! From one grumpy old man to another, it is just another step backward for them. We see again the slow and painful demise of a once great watchmaker. Excellent video my friend, people need to know what they are buying.

I believe the plastic has some amazing characteristics such as high hardness and low friction, i don't think it's a bad aspect, new materials are part of any engineer life. We need to see how it goes on the field. So far i think Tissot is doing pretty well if you consider the amount of PRX out there.

I have a PR100 Powermatic 80 with plastic escapement. I have had it for 2 years as my daily driver and currently runs at +2 sec/day. The most accurate watch I have owned. Yeah, same accuracy as an coaxial METAS Omega.

Wow! Thanks for the heads up. It's unbelievable, yet, believable.

I am quite happy to come across this video. I was interested in a watch with this movement but I knew it had some plastic parts which turned me off. You are the first one to actually show the plastic parts and you are right, it looks like a very cheap sell out and thus I will not buy a Tissot watch.

Thank you for touching this “great strategy” of such respected brand! I found such plastic escapement many many years ago on one of Chinese “no name movement”. It was strange, cheap and monstrous decision towards the client, just to sell the watch and forgot anything…. And now we see this in watches there engraved on the oscillating weight - 1853! For what?! Does it means they find a decision of the ages?

Great video, thank you for sharing. Truly incredible... I had my beloved Tissot PRX Powermatic 80 and I'm gutted about your finding.

I gifted my stepfather the exact same watch and serviced it last year. Thankfully for him and me it was the previous 'upgraded lol' version and has a true eta 2824-2 inside 👍🏽 High tech escapement 😂

C'est dans l'air du temps, on produit à bas coût et on vend cher, c'est de l'argent facile et une vision à très court terme. Les chinois pendant ce temps progressent tous les jours... Mais je ne suis qu'un petit horloger de province sans grande expérience.

I bought myself a somewhat similar Tissot, the T139407 A with a ETA 80.111 movement in it. Most likely I've got a bunch of plastic parts in it as well. Which does make me worry. I've recently put it on a timegrapher that I got (picking up the watchmaking hobby here in Utrecht 🙂), and it did run amazingly well. But will I be able to maintain it down the line? Part of the appeal of mechanical watches for me is their agelessness when maintained properly. Also these pieces can carry a lot of emotional value for people because they are bought sparingly and for special occasions. I bought mine for finishing my masters degree 😀. But I might have looked at other watches had I known about there being plastic parts in there (probably). It makes me trust the brand less...

Oh geez !!! 😮 plastic parts !!!! What going on with Tissot it’s a shame !! Thank you Kalle to show us this horrible things !!

This is why the only new Tissot I have bought is the 1938 Chronometre. It still has a proper ETA2824-2, with the PROPER escapement, and COSC certified to boot!

If I want a bunch of plastic bits I'll buy a quartz

I hope this goes viral. Also if we don't buy their scrap then they will be forced to change.

In many areas of engineering and manufacturing, "engineered plastics" are the right choice. This refers to plastics that are made with certain characteristics to high standards. They have known properties and pass rigorous testing. I don't know if that is the quality level of the material for these watch parts. In any case, I am a bit of a traditionalist about mechanical watches and feel these should be made from stainless steel or brass regardless of the plastics that are available. Keep in mind though that the use of plastics for some parts _may_ be a well-considered, engineering decision.

Questions: If you replaced those plastic parts with the traditional metal ones, would the watch run any better? You can test that yourself. Do you estimate that the plastic escapement will have a shorter or longer life than the traditional one? Why? If you could have a movement made of ANY metal or metals you choose, what metals would you choose, cost no object.

I would sell it the second I figured it out! I coukdnt wear it as it woukd bother and annoy me too much .Just shows watches selling at inflated prices not worth it.These company's better watch out. Things like this hurt the name and I woukd avoid altogether. Watch is a LUXURY and a manufacturer shoots themselves in the foot cheating out like this

The beauty of quartz confirmed.

25 jewels powermatic 80 in Certina is no plastic parts hence 23 jewels plus 2 on escapement. .611 I believe it is

honestly thanks for shedding light on this movement lol im glad i have just the quartz prx now

The plastic parts (escape wheel & pallet fork) only apply to the Tissot PRX Powermatic 80 watch, which carries a C07.111 movement (23 juwels). The new Tissot Gentlemen Powermatic 80 watch has a C07.811 movement with all metal parts, a silicon balance spring and 25 juwels.

i knew about this but i feel conflicted. Personally i find le locle to be beautiful and i want it, but it had this issue. Any way to avoid / alleviate / aftermarket upgrade it?

I agree. Disappointing that the well marketed PRX is equipped with C07.111. I think the Powermatic 80 is a very good movement, but the C07.811, which does not have the plastic parts. Amazing that the Gentleman is in the shadows especially compared to the PRX, has no huge price gap between.

I would prefer facts and data from a timegrapher and time between replacement at service intervals to emotional indignation. If the beat error, vibration, and energy consumption were less for nylon over metal, and the Nylon escapement lasts 3 service intervals or 10 years, with identical ETA 2824 movements, the nylon escapement is product improvement. Manufacturers choosing this material should be transparent about it. Nylon should not be substituted if it degrades performance or reasonable endurance expectations.

Happy to found your channel. Love the technical aspect of it. Could you maybe do a review of a L688 movement from Longines?

idk got one of this. simply put, it works, approx. -4/day. not sure about reliability, it's just 2 yrs old

Thank you for showing us the real tissot watch, are all their movements the same or just that movement, what happens when the plastic wears out in a few years ????

Is the ETA C26.111 that seems to be replacing the ETA 2671 in alot of ladies watches also have the same plastic parts? Can't find any info on it.

So I would like to know more about the real-world longevity of these. Is this plastic in fact wearing out? I see a lot of folks being offended that it's there, but I don't really see the proof that it is the failure point of these watches. And as for the watches being disposable, is anyone really repairing cheap Seiko movements that everyone swears by? When I've brought Seikos into watchmakers, they've said they'll replace rather than repairing the movement. I'm just not sure there's a world where anyone's Tissot movement would have been cost effective to repair.

They would call it high-tech carbon composite. It’s what makes the escapement ‘high-tech’. 😄 Thank you for sharing!

This movement is part of a family of 3 movement Tissot is using. You have the C07.111, the C07.601 and the C07.811. The 111 comes with 23 jewels and the 'high tech escapement' without the 2 pallet fork jewels, hence 23. The 601 uses normal materials, the 811 has a silicon hairspring. I personally checked. I have the 811 version, on which, so far, I do not have any problems. I personally think that plastic parts in a watch are a no-no, however, there are a lot of Seikos using plastic stuff on places Seiko says improves the function of the watch. Whilst that might be the case, in this specific case, I have to agree with Kalle: This is bordering on pure fraud, is misleading, and by no means are these parts anywhere near 'high tech'. I have to say, I am glad I bought the part which is not containing the plastic, because all in all, and Kalle also mentions this, the movement itself based on the ETA 2824-2 is a solid movement

All this fuss about a plastic part lol 😂😂😂 I bought two PRX80s … by the time that plastic part wears out I’ll be worn out.

Yeah , I like traditional components . I prefer steel springs with regulation as well .

Look, the thing is - this doesn’t save particularly much money, they have to have a reason for it. Presumably it’s not accuracy, except perhaps in magnetized environments, maybe it’s longevity? It’s entirely possible for plastic on plastic contact to last longer than jewel on metal. Nothing else about the movement seems different from the traditional versions. If it was actually cost optimized it would look *very* different.

This is why I’m keeping my 1973 Tissot chronograph PR516 the new stuff is not so good

Just a thought on this subject. I have two Omega Speedmasters. One is the broad arrow version and the other is what we often refer to as the Hesalilte sandwich. The broad arrow version has a Delrin brake and the sandwich has a metal one, presumably because you can see it. The reason I was told is because the Delrin version has better wear properties but then surely the brake in an Omega chronograph would get far less wear than an escapement. It still bothers me though when I think of a plastic part in my Speedmaster.

I remember when Glock came out with a plastic pistol, now all the top firearms are polymer. People had a fit when cars came out with plastic bumpers, but now cars are 10x more safe. More than likely they took a part that if it didn't require servicing because it's basically self lubricating , the user would have a better watch experience between servicing ? I doubt those parts would save them much money. It's just the old guy in ya !

I'm curious if the impulse jewel is plastic as well. Otherwise the ruby might slowly chew away at the pallet fork? Some plastics have very good abrasion qualities though. Also curious about the long term stability of the plastic it self.

Thank you Mister, for educating us.

Think of all the work it will create for watchmakers, replacing plastic escapements every year.

Hi, Thank you for getting direct to the truth. I was bragging about my Tissot and wondering whether the PRX 80 has a similar movement. If it is, I would really be very disappointed.

these are very old news - these movements have around 10years already and the plastic parts discussed in forums a tonn of times.

Tissot has been wonderful. I own one with a c07.601 movement. It still has a traditional metal escapement and metal balance spring. Great movement and it it has been a faithful every day wear for over 7 years now. I recently serviced it and it's running like new. It's hard to think that they made the decision to switch to parts that will degrade and no longer function well before the end of the life of the watch.

I have a seastar in for repair at the mo, the crown wont close and the rotor spins when you wind it after it has stopped. So see what happens when i get it back.

That's why I only collect vintage mechanical watches and it is a pleasure seeing you repair them

A commenter on one of the reviews posted the below previously. I had understood the plastic parts were one of the features of the specific movement. The rate is adjustable by adjusting the eccentric screw as it's a free sprung balance. The plastic part is a Nivachron hairspring that was co-developed with swatch group and APRP, with that it made the watch anti-magnetic, and pallet fork with the escape wheel made out of the composite, it createsless friction and less impact. You know good things for a hairspring. C07 movements are highly serviceable, so it's not just throwaway movement, they use special lubricant compared to the common swiss lever 9415 oil which if other watchmaker out there have the proper lubricant they could fix this watch too. They exchange the movement so the turn around time of servicing is faster while the old movement is sent to Switzerland to be serviced.

Thanks for explaining the the movement issues. Please can you explain how likely these parts are to fail? Do you think that Tissot expect these watches or movements to be disposable ie just replace the movement rather than repair it? Many thanks

I was told the C07.111 is the cheapest Powermatic80 used in the PRX etc. There are higher grades used in the Gentleman and others. Although this info is out there, it is deceptive for Tissot to keep that hidden from consumers. That said, I'd guess people buying PRX's are just looking for an inexpensive Swiss watch.

I was really wsnting a PRX automatic, but now I'm angry at the thought of spending that much money and getting plastic parts that will wear down. I personally think the PRX should have the exact movement as the gentleman with the silicium.

I thought about your request for our comments AND This is the 21st century and methods and materials improve with time. The new parts are silicon which are lighter/non rustable/less expensive and allow for an 80 hr running cycle and should be more accurate unfortunately the cannot be black polished or pearlaged . I was in the the instrument / control industry for 35 years and we old timers ran down the new digital controls that were not built as nice as the old hand built equipment but they were more accurate/cheaper/and more durable and programable. TIME CHANGES. we should TO!🤩

My understanding is that there are different grades of the powermatic movement with the metal parts 100% servicable. Also i really dont get why a diposable movement is that big a deal. If popping in a new one is cheaper than servicing by all means ill take the new movement.

Great video! I got into watches a couple years ago and at the time almost bought the Le Locle, and later did end up buying a Hamilton Khaki which also uses a Powermatic movement. I have heard that the plastic components are not found in Hamilton but I’ve never really looked into it. Either way very interesting.

What are the specs of the plastic? Just because it is plastic doesn't mean it is bad. Are Magpul magazines bad because they eliminated the steel feed lips? Of course not. It is not as simple as "plastic bad!" My Tissot Gentlemen with the Powermatic 80 is the most accurate mechanical watch I own from my testing, after wearing for 14 days I calculated it was only 0.86 seconds per day slow.

Let's hope they don't come up with the idea of building a plastic coaxial escapement. George Daniels, had turned in his grave. RIP.

Just got me a €2,- Chinese digital watch, I'll put it on a €12,- NATO. Asians all have Hobbit sized wrists. It runs perfectly, has no bling, hasd date, 24h clock. day, month. The extras I don't use, ( alarm and stopwatch). It gives me: "One Ping only please!" every hour. It is more fun to wear than that " 't is zot" I think :)

Swiss made...belongs to history. Many watchmakers assembly or import parts from Asia. By now majority makes everything in China.This is not confidental information and can be found. Same as many Watchmakers do around the World or at least those from collective West. Only exception to this are famous brand which costs in thousands which majority can't afford ofcourse those are made in countries of origin. Watches which are affordable are all made and assembled in Asia, which does not mean they are bad quality as QC is also preserved. Anymosity toward Asia is also strange. In meantime Asia can produce also quality products. It depends only how much is one prepared to pay per unit.

That's why I would never touch Powermatic 80 movement. I would buy their quartz watches, maybe other automatic movements BUT NEVER EVER Powermatic 80.

Ive been wearing a prx pm80 since 2021 almost daily, and i have not had any issues with reliability or accuracy so far. Granted its nothing like my GS speingdrive, but imo my prx is a tough beater of a time piece, i really enjoy it.

Interesting, thanks 👍. I have avoided this movement, because I would find it difficult to regulate. I had heard there were plastic parts, but I didn't realise it was this bad!

Modern engineering plastics can be extremely durable when correctly specified and of course are non magnetic and can be self lubricating (though not, I believe in this instance). Time will tell but this could indeed be a modern breakthrough. As a materials engineer I am not against the use of plastics when used in appropriate applications.

Hello, for this reason I bought a used Visodate with a 2836 and a Gentleman with quartz movement.

I dont get the point of most people calling it out and especially I dont understand this video. Sure I get Tissot probably could have made a more elegant solution than using plastic parts. But is the issue here that it is not "high tech", or that it just shouldnt have plastic? Because the powermatic 80 was designed to have a longer power reserve at a lower price. There are of course hi beat movements with higher power reserves but none in this price range except for the powermatic. It needs the plastic parts to reduce moment of inertia and to help the weaker beat rate to actually keep on beating. Someone in a youtube video tried swapping the fork and escape wheel out for genuine 2824 metal parts and it could not run sustained. I think its not justified that the powermatic 80 gets so much smack, although I agree it could have been solved more elegantly and that many powermatic 80 models are very expensive to use a mechanism like that, even though still not as expensive as hi beat high power reserve models.

Apparently, the Tissot designers, or perhaps bean counters, are using "Hi Tech" in place of their own thoughts regarding the "future of watchmaking". I know this is what upsets Kalle, as he is a craftsman, not an accountant. And people that buy such watches want crafted watches, not something that makes a slightly higher bottom line. It's good to expose such things that are not in evidence at the sales counter. While there may be legitimate arguments to be made that 3D printed parts will be good for servicing watches, non-plastic pallet forks like we're used to aren't generally replaced that often. JMHO. Cheers.

The Swiss have been playing this crooked game for 60 years. Ebauche movements called something else, the same part in a different envelope. This is a very high priced Timex. In fact Timex is a PP by comparison.

What a shame. I never liked modern Tissot too much, but still, as a Swiss citizen, I am appalled by this discovery. They shit precisely on what made my country great : quality and trustworthiness.

If you could check Rado, Mido, and Certina. I hope they do not have that plastic part.

I thought it was public knowledge that the powermatic 80 had a plastic escapement.

It is a high tech material. Compared to steel. We use plastics in muuch higher stress environments than a fkn automatic watch. That will likely NEVER fail.

Tissot was a nice watch in 1970s. I have a chrono with a Lemania 1340 movement like in an old Omega Speedmaster or Mark but of lesser quality without rhodium plating. The 1970s are gone. It was still possible to buy a decent Tissot watch in 1990s with 2824 or even 2892 movement and any watchmaker could service them and spare parts was not a problem. They are not as good as Lemania but would last a lifetime if cared properly. Today we have Powermatic movement, which is cheaper to replace than to service. If this is high tech I would rather buy NOS (new old stock) than a modern watch. Just my 2 cents.

I love objective channels like this, dissecting popular brands’ flagships and gave honest opinion about them. Really well-made video.

A firm statement Kalle, but I agree with you. I almost bought this watch, because I like the looks of it. But now seeing this "quality", I pass on this one....

Also basically when you take the watch in for its periodic service, you’ll have to replace the pallet fork which probably only cost a few bucks. Not a big deal. There’s a reason why Tissots cost what they cost.

First of all, you look surprised by this. This should be common knowledge for a watchmaker. Second, the pallet fork is not just "plastic": it is a synthetic material; but so are the rubies on a classic pallet fork. Why did they do this;? Well to make an affordable 80 hour power reserve watch. It is more affordable because placing the rubies on the pallet fork, is one of the only tasks that requires manual intervention and that is expensive. As you may know, there is not just one Powermatic 80 movement. There are several. The ones with number C07.1xx, with the synthetic pallet fork, the C07.6xx with a classic pallet fork and the C07.8xx witjh a classic pallet fork and a silicium hairspring. The synthetic pallet fork is not necessarily worse than the classic pallet fork. It all depends on the material that was used.

ive been saying this for years. Now the PRX is being advertised by all influencers as the best watch for young people or first time watch buyer. A cheaped out movement that won't last 5 years. Imagine how these people will feel after the watch they were told was so great, isn't easily serviced, stops working. I have sympathy with you. It's de-valuing the brand.

Hi and thank you for your work. I've heard quite recently about this issue. I've also heard that, despite the fact that both brands are under the same umbrella (Swatch Group), Hamilton's H10 doesn't feature plastic parts, unlike Tissot's Powermatic 80. If you've got the opportunity to disassemble one, I'd be very happy to know if it's true. Best regards.

I have a Tissot quartz watch which I spent $500.00 to buy. Its functions such as changing the calendar are imprecise and clumsy and don't compare with a $100 Seiko or Citizen. I think I will stick with the latter instead of throwing money away on Swiss technology.

Thankyou for making this video. It helped me a lot. I don't agree with use 9f plastic parts in a mechanical watch

Self lubricating....that's why it's high tech, shame they won't release spare parts thought.

Contains C07.111 - Automatic, synthetic polymer (plastic) parts

Thank you for bringing this to our attention. You are a man of honour and integrity! Kind thoughts from Denmark.

Even Chinese made escapement parts are made with acceptable materials

I bought a PR100 on Jomashop for about 200USD + taxes and shipping to Europe. That Powermatic 80 version with the plastic fork. I have to say, I was very positively suprised by the quality of the watch for that price, it was far better than a Seiko 5 costing the same. Even with the exhibition case, the calibre looks decent, comparing to the Seiko 7S26. I dont mind having plastic parts for such a nice watch for that price. Also, the accuracy of watch is on the COSC level, there was even a series of PR100 for less then 250USD with the certificate - same as Tudor :D In my opinion, Tissot and the Swatch is trying to do some real life testing or maybe experiments with the large amount of low-tier watches :-) I dont mind, for that price, it makes sense, on the other hand, I would not pay the full price for Powermatic 80 in PRX (like - 800 USD in Europe). Not speaking about that Sistem51 in the Swatchplain. On the other hand, I was able to service my Seikos for very small amount of money, and I would doubt, if a standard service is even possible with the Plastomatic... But its still running well and I did not heard any actual complaints about the quality of plastick P80s, yet. Unlike for the infamous sistem51, which seems to be piece of garbage about even 1 year of usage...

I wanted a PRX and then I got into hobby watchmaking… so yeha no more So sad because I think case and dial weise it’s a banger and a true classic

Yes it's sad but in England Tissot has prices that make one wonder why they are so cheap. And you have shown us why !!