OMG!! Paul picked up my question for the video!! God! I can't tell you how much it means to me. I'm on cloud nine! Thank you for your detailed explanation on the loudness function. I think it works great for low volume listening, especially late nights. :) Btw, just ordered the Kindle edition of 99% True! Can't wait to go home and get started. Thanks again for dedicating an episode to my question. You just made my day..month..year!! :-D God bless you! 🙏🏼

"Better to have a weapon and not need it than to need it and not have it" Christian Slater

At 4:30 it sounds like a squirrel is getting fried on the power lines lol

This is what I don't understand: Loudness/tone controls--bad, DSP--good. Unless you are listening to a live performance, there is no such thing as a pure signal. Do whatever you like to make it sound the way you like it.

I like my adjustable loudness controls.

This is also one of the reasons why vintage amps and receivers are still so popular and sought after. It's a shame that modern manufactures are building their product towards one type of listener and ignoring those who like to have fun with their audio equipment by adjusting the bass/treble and having a loudness button. As well, a lot of us have kids and the only time we get to listen is after they are in bed and it's not practical to listen at the levels to equal everything out. This is where a loudness button excels.

50 years ago, it was called physiological adjust. Which answers the question immediate. There was also a Diskant adjust..

I have an old Denon reciever on my secondary system. This device has a variable loudness control which seems to work nice at lower volume listening level. On my main (5.2) system I do NOT have a "loudness control" but I use a 15 band EQ and play it at louder levels.

My 89 year old dad is enjoying your book. I bought it for him for father's day and it's still by his side. I'm looking forward to get it when he is done with it. 😎👍

To be honest Music is something entertain yourself so you listen to your music the way you want to! I like a Smile face EQ or a mid scoop most audiophiles hate that but it is my stereo not there's.

One of the big selling points for me when I purchased my Vincent SV-237 MK integrated amp was that it had both a loudness switch and bass and treble controls. I don't care for pre-programmed processors with sound field settings.

Back in the day, some amps had their tone controls on a separate circuit with a bypass switch, giving the best of both worlds. I generally don't use them or the loudness switch, but it's nice to know they're there if I want to.

You can easily fool a group of audiophiles in a blind test to tell you they like the sound when loudness is on better. I’ve done that (used an EQ).

That looks like the couch to take long afternoon naps on.

I like the loudness button also.

Love loudness and tone controls. If you done want to use it, don’t use it or switch them out of the circuit. 95% of the time I listen flat but for certain recordings or listening at low volume levels, the are a godsend.

I love em! especially the treble control, i love sizzling highs

I read down the comments a bit and was surprised not to see this argument, and that you didn't mention it: the reason I don't want to use tone controls, loudness, EQ, is because I respect the artists who put it together, who sat in a studio and said, "THIS is the result of our hard work and the way we think it should sound." For me, this is the "purity" for which audiophiles invest a lot of effort and money, not that we want to have ultimate control to create some objective "killer" sound. But I fully agree with you that if what someone wants is to create what they consider a "killer" sound, that's perfectly fine. What's interesting is that I used to do a lot of EQ to get the killer sound, but once I started to prioritize the artists' ears, I learned that THEIR killer sound is better than what mine was.

Loudness, tone controls, DSP. Absolutely!

That's me, lol. Always preferred amps with no bass, terrible, or loud control, etc. The more controls, the greater the loss in quality. A good amp is set up perfectly from the get-go, and one choice speaker is for the amp and room. This is why we love power amps, off and on, and that's it. Nice direct path for the signal

Love my loudness control on my Marantz 2226b , use it less or not on my Marantz 1122dc and don't care for missing it on my Shanling tube-mono blocks coupled on a tube sacd - no single control and great . Love your music the way you do .

Gotta love that contact noise at 4:28

At low volume the loudness button makes it sound right. Crank the volume ,unclick the loudness button. You won't forget to turn it back on later cause the sound will be empty at low to mid volume. It should be automatic, but then audiophiles would never buy it.

My infinity SM floor standars that I have had for 30 years just love my amp with the loudness option.

Even considering myself as a "purist", I also know that recordings are not always consistent on the EQ side.

From my experience, it depends on your speakers. If you have wimpy speakers then you'll find the loudness control helps. I used to use it all the time until I upgraded my speakers. Now I can't stand the button because it makes everything sound bloated.

Paul, This is Brian Kim Keenan. Your answer is absolutely correct. Thanks again for an honest and straight forward reply.

Very interesting discussion Paul - thank you for posting Congratulations on your new book !

Proton D540...loudnes+ bass boost + tone controls...a fantastic beast...

Audiophiles hate loudness control but they love mid scoop sound.

he mentioned it , if it's in the digital only signal he would play around it like a dsp , i for people who have room issues use a mini dsp unit like the ddrc-22D i bought it and it's setup between my streamer and dac just before the analog conversion , it does wonders !!

Some of us don't. I listen at low volumes often and that is where Loudness shines. I wish everything had it, but also had a full tone stack bypass.

I miss the WOW knob on (usually cheaper) preamps. It not only boosted the bass but it also expanded the stereo separation (Wide) & added reverb/echo. Preset EQs on surround-sound receivers (Concert-Hall, Auditorium, Flat, etc.) killed off the WOW feature.

Would be good to also explain a loudness control is simply a basic equalizer for the masses. You can buy say a basic 5-band EQ and play with that relative to overall amplitude, but harder to adjust than one simple button or knob like on an older stereo amp. That said, while to F-M curves are good to understand overall, they were an averaging of many individual subjects studied, and any one person's F-M curve can be somewhat different from another's. So the loudness adjustment that would make the music seem flat for you may be different than for someone else. Also, as people age, the HF hearing degrades so maybe boosting the treble further helps.

If an amplifier don't have tone controls it don't get bought!

I might not use loudness controls, but I do use DSP... Accuphase DG-68.. can't go back to the sound before!

Thank you paul for taking time away from a gorgeous bolder hike to come talk to us audio nuts 😀 as I went away from receivers and tone controls into separates I thought I would miss them. Nope. Now the system sounds good at low and loud levels and never missed them. When you get into the higher end stuff you don't get tone controls usually anyways. Just let's the speakers produce what's on the source 😀

4:30 İf you sit there and open your arms you can be a good radio antenna. Then use your head for fine tuning.

I just recently discovered that most systems sound way better when turned up to the volume that the speakers were designed to do best. At that level, whatever it happens to be, usually quite loud, most systems do not benefit from the use of the loudness button or dial. However, I really don't like to listen that loud. At the levels I enjoy, a loudness adjustment is crucial to bring the frequency response into balance. At 2:22 Paul says the bass and treble don't diminish relative to the middle frequencies, but the ear perceives it that way. I just want to take a different approach to the way that can be said: At low volumes the bass and treble fall away more quickly than the mids, even though the relative electronic signal and relative sound pressure levels do not. Equal bass, mid and treble at low volumes have different ratios of sound pressure than they do at higher volumes. I think it's important to note that in real life we don't talk about it that way at all. At low volumes we don't perceive musical instruments to lack bass because when music is played softly by a musician they adjust the volumes of lower notes according to their own hearing, not according to air pressure. I believe it is misleading to refer to equal levels of electronic signal as being equal levels of sound. It's not. Equal levels of sound, as our ears perceive it, is not a straight one to one ratio for all frequencies. Are our ears at fault? Of course not. We just need to realize that maintaining the same SPL ratios at all volumes in a reproduction system is NOT accurate. Loudness adjustment to the signal corrects for that inaccuracy and if it matches the Fletcher-Munson Curve it could be said that it MORE accurate.

Excellent real world answer. Thank you.

I absolutely appreciate the prsgmatic answer. Yes many audiophile zelots would've dogmatically stated "absolutely no other controls". Clearly not everyone is in the same environment, budget, or even "ear frequency range".

I have a heavily modified Sansui C-1000 with high end internal components but my favorite thing is the variable loudness control +/- 6db. I keep bass and treble flat with loudness +1-3db depending on music type.

Many recorded songs I hear don’t need loudness control correction. But, there’s a few that sound better with controls. I guess we (audiophiles) expect perfection.

I've bought quite a lot of audio equipment and whilst I usually don't use loudness controls, I would never by an amp without bass and treble controls. The amplifier manufacturer has no idea how I like my music to sound.

Loudness controls are a must as is an Equalizer so we can "UNDO" the hocus pocus that the sound engineer has imposed on us. I guess I'm not technically an audiophile because I'm still waiting for my 1980s Harmon Kardon 800 series to stop working before waste money on somthing new But I love my Audio controls so I may get music to sound the way I like!!!!! Sound is subjective and because of the engineering to the music

I think that people who's questions were good enough for Paul's video posts should get a free copy of his book

End boosting was something I did, when my speakers used only a single extended range driver. Very strong in the mids, produced decent treble, but didn't have much timbre. also, with the small 6 inch drivers, they rolled off on the low end. I was able to boost the bass, and seal the port, to extend the low end by just under an octave. It just so happened, that the critical frequency of the treble control on the amplifier closely matched the inductive roll off of the driver, and it held the overall spectrum a little flatter than I expected, though not perfect. When I advanced into 2 and 3 way speakers, I quit boosting the high and low ends of the spectrum, because the speakers had drivers that responded well enough to all but eliminate the need for tone control. The only thing I like equalization for now, is room coloration, where I can't put the speakers where I want, but rather where they need to be. I don't have a perfect acoustic environment.

I've had good luck with the loudness control on my Adcom GTP-450 preamp. It makes low volume listening much more enjoyable, but seems to taper off at higher volumes. I assume that's how it's supposed to work.

I use Denon AVR's direct option always with music. Turn up the volume a bit and you'll get bass.

So true Paul. I worked in the Hi Fi trade and sometimes I would have a small amp and small speakers and they needed a boost. Yamaha take a great and slightly unique approach where they integrated and linked the loudness control to the volume control. You could also add additional bass and treble if you wanted it.

The Yamaha variable loudness, the best!!

I love the adjustable loudness functionality of my RME ADI-2 DAC. You can, for example, set the strength for bass and treble individually and define the point from which the loudness effect sets in, and that gradually, the lower you go with the volume. Are there other amps you can do that with?

I LOVE the variable loudness control on my McIntosh C32 preamp, and I use it whenever I’m listening below 45db. I had a Yamaha AS801 for about 2 weeks and returned it because their loudness control also messes with the volume. I’ll make my own choices, thank you.

Oh you do them on one day. I always wondered why short questions would sometimes take 2 pages lol

*I wouldn't say 'hate' - a good setup doesn't need them, my Meridian 201 preamp doesn't have anything, no bass, treble, balance, loudness... no need*

I have not used a loudness button in 40 years. Oh no, the deciding trait of an Audiophile!

After reading most of the book I kind of wish the studio was Named B20

Paul is very intensified with the shaking today

🧐 …IN GENERAL, I THINK AUDIOPHILES PROBABLY PREFER BUILDING THE SPEAKER SYSTEM UP SO THAT IT ULTIMATELY EMITS THE DESIRED SOUND (MUCH MORE NATURALLY). - I KNOW THAT FOR ME, TONE CONTROLS AND OTHER ‘ADJUSTMENTS’ ON THE AMPLIFIER ARE THOUGHT OF AS ‘WORK AROUNDS’ TO MAKE UP FOR ANY SHORTCOMINGS THE SPEAKERS MAY HAVE…

there are or were two types of loudness controls a switch that boost the low and high frequencies at all volume control settings or one that gives more effect at usually low to half way up setting of the control so if the input signal level is high the control setting will be low giving move loudness effect rather than a low signal input turning the volume up higher will have less loudness in the second design case just a point here

More EQ to the people! 👊🏻

I have a Yamaha IGA and the loudness control is different because it trims the volume down, so turning it up past a comfortable listening level and trim down to conversation level actually makes people stop talking and listen

IIR filters change phase, but they are reversible for the changed signal. E.g. if someone takes two "identical" EQs connected sequentially, then first EQ will gain the signal around 1kHz by 6dB, while second EQ will reduce the signal around 1 kHz by 6dB, the resulting signal is fully restored (to the precision the EQs can provide). FIR filters do not change phase as audiophiles want to have, but the signal cannot be restored with the other FIR filter back. Is it the same signal in such case?

Purist philosophy is fine, only one problem, consistency at source. Recorded material is not, and cannot be, of consistent quality. In an ideal world, everything being equal, we should be able to listen to source direct with everything set at middle C, but all recordings are not no equal I'm afraid. So, bring on the loudness!

It depends on the gear. I like the option.

'Ole Audiophile to Paul & his listeners: NO, why hate a control because its misunderstood & misused by many of those that own them? That's rash. It works perfect for what it's designed for, low volume levels one wants to accentuate the bass on. Nothing else and most certainly NOT for cranking as it's most often misused! thanx Paul.

It's not the loudness control that I hate, it's the implementation in specific amplifiers that I don't like, as all of the ones that I've tried seem to have an added deadness to the sound when loudness is engaged, yet I've heard some bluetooth speakers that implement it perfectly.

I have a vintage Yamaha A700 with loudness. I set the loudness to zero and then set the volume to the highest listening level I want. From there I just use the loudness control to reduce volume to an appropriate level, say background music during dinner etc. I enjoy retaining the perceived tonal balance it provides. Perhaps I'm not a purist, just a lover of music.

The first amp I bought in 1975 had a loudness control and I've loved them. Sadly the last couple I have bought don't have them. I just bump up the sub a little bit.

Why are your videos shaking as of late?

So when I plug in an Audio Note pre-amp to a 1976 Sansui 9090, I lose a fullness to the sound by a huge significant amount, but the Audio-note obviously makes a huge difference with cleaner and smoother sound. I am looking at getting tone controls, which you can get from schiit audio for about a hundred bucks.

The loudness control on the RME ADI-2 DAC is adaptive depending on volume and user preference. "The ADI-2 DAC offers Loudness for the analog stereo outputs, and probably is the first time that Loudness works as intended. The user can decide how much maximum gain in Bass and Treble should occur at lower volume settings. The user also sets the Low Vol Ref-erence, where maximum gain is achieved. After extensive tests a 20 dB range has been de-fined as range for maximum gain to no gain while increasing volume. That seemed to be the perfect definition of the range that needs to be addressed by Loudness. Here is an example on how it works: the user’s typical lowest level listening volume is at -35 dB at the unit. This value is now set by the user as Low Vol Ref in the Loudness menu. Then Bass and Treble Gain can be set between 0 and +10 dB. Default is +7 dB for both. Increasing the volume by turning the Volume knob causes the gain in Bass and Treble to be lowered smoothly over a range of 20 dB. So when Volume is set to -15 dB, the music is not only quite loud, but Loudness’ Bass and Treble are then at 0 dB gain." www.rme-audio.de/download/adi2dac_e.pdf

I don’t. I love the one on my Harmon Kardon 380I reciever. It does add fullness at low volumes. I also like the fact that it has a tape loop, so I can EQ my own recordings. I just wish I had a cassette deck for my car. I used to make copies of my CD’s and eq them so that I didn’t lose anything on playback. But when the volume is turned, like Paul said, you should have the same sound quality when you’re playing music at low volumes with the loudness. Sometimes the speakers your using might be lacking and loudness controls make up for what your speakers can reproduce.

Also... whatever happened to those spectrum analyzer displays found in equalizers in the 80s? I miss the eye candy.

The one issue I have with loudness controls are that they should have an adjustable curve too mach the efficiency of the speakers.

Audiophiles want the sound to be processed perfectly at every stage, from the amp, through the wires, to the speaker, into the air, and into their ears, so that their perfect ears can then feed perfect sound to their brain. Ordinary folks would rather adjust the sound as needed to compensate for imperfect speakers, an imperfect listening room, and--in some cases most importantly--imperfect ears, so as to maximize the quality of the sound reaching their brain. People with perfect equipment and ears may look disdainfully upon such adjustments, but for ordinary people with imperfect ears, having quality sound reach the brain would be better than having perfect sound everywhere else in the process.

Not really loudness, but optimal for me is to have basic bass/treble controls with a bypass switch to allow unmolested audio when desired. Most sound fine when flat on my system, but some recordings are just awful, so a tweak to the bass/treble helps make the experience more enjoyable.

I like tone controls because not all recordings are engineered the same,so you can tweak the sound if need be,also i am 50 years old and my ears are not what they use to be,lol......my 3 cents anyways!!!

4:28 If you just like some distortion and static..................................check it out Paul

A loudness control is essential for listening to music at neighbor friendly volumes, especially in apartments and duplexes. It is not needed when listening at higher volumes.

Why would I care about what other people hate? That is their problem, not mine. I also put extra salt on my food if I want to, no matter what the chef who made it says about it.

Choice is always a good thing,i have a PS Audio Sprout 100 and it has a bass boost since i upgraded my speakers (Kef R300) i leave it flat.

RME ADI-2 Pro has loudness control that is working right.

I agree, try it and see if it is better. Ideally to get the optimal sound it should simply not be there. But try and see. It does what most things in the HIFI world do at the lower levels to attain a better sound: compensating.

Wow I have never heard that audiophiles hate the loudness control and I know one or two of them. I never realized. I have the control off when listening at normal levels but once the gain is set. If I need to turn the volume down for, I just do that with the loudness control. That's what it's for after all. Who cares if it's all timywimy phasywasy. It's at low background subliminal atmosphere levels and no ones really listening to it. They are listening to each other now as it should be. The control just helps it do it's subliminal thing more effectively by preserving rich tonality. What's to hate about that?

In my main system, no tone or loudness, like it that way. In my BR system tone and variable loudness from the Mac 4100, both get used.

I don't use loudness or tone controls but only cos it sounds better without, I used to use them on an old marantz cos it did sound better

LOVE the loudness control on my 1965 Daynaco PAS 2 preamp. I wonder if there was a way to connect a SPROUT to it ? Hmmmmmmmmm ..... It is always on and I don't fool with it as it adds more of a low and mid presence rather then high frequencies and the Klipschorns sound very smooth with the 'enhancement'... Loudness WILL roll off just past 12 0'clock if you can stand the volume via a VERY sensitive speaker ((O;

My HK 730 and Fisher 400 both have loudness controls. My Rogue audio Sphinx V2 does not. The Rogue also does not have a treble or bass adjustment, and the sound i get, cannot be tweaked. At any rate, i bought the recapped Fisher 400 tube amp for peanuts, and love the sound a 1000 times better than the other receivers, integrated amps i own. And if it needs bass i turn it up a few notches!!

Yamaha, Dennon and I believe two more vintage brands also had the variable loudness control. Correct me if I'm wrong but the 60's MACINTOSH were the innovators of the variable loudness control. Pure audiophiles don't want to monkey around with their sound systems, well think again. There is a big trend with purirsts in trying different tubes in obtaining their best personal sound quality. This can take years of trying!!!

I Miss those tone controls!

So that means equalizer controls are out too?

Also, for real world apartment dwellers and A.S.T.M. certified night owls who prefer speakers to headphones, for the sake of our leases, listening at the ideal volume level is frequently not an option. My sweet little British integrated amp (of a certain age) has bass and treble controls but not a Fletcher Munson loudness control. A little judicious turning of the knobs (remember those?) does little harm compared to the benefits. And for purists, there is a switch that totally bypasses the tone controls plus the balance knob. If this still bothers you, you have better ears than mine. None-the-less: =//=OldDudesStillRock

Audiophiles , how can you enjoy your very expensive music at lower volumes ? I guess you must always listening at high volumes . I like to listen to my music very late night at very low volumes, and I can really enjoy it especially with the great glass of champagne or wine . Without waking up my nice neighbours :-) . This the reason I am not interested in any equipment without tone controls .

I have mine set at around 4:00 if you think of dial as a clock face on my yamaha

Audiophiles developed also their own class of sounding called audio sound. It is reach with all heard nuances which are absent in normal life and can be perceived only with really high class audio gear. . Adopting loudness control things may get very friendly and in my opinion better than audio class sound.Not details but whole complex sound may be astonishing. . But the conditions covering all system are very tough and hardly may be met in standard unit.

Apologies if already suggested, but why not send a book to every person whose question provides you with content on these videos? I already have it so no personal agenda here :-)

i call it a Yamahahaha. so glad you recorded todays session at that coffee table... i am not familiar with HiFi+. please and thank you.

I wish some recording studios could behave like audiophiles...............pure recordings..........

I LOVE loudness controls! I just can't find a component that has it. No matter what the level of EQ sophistication or versatility, you just can't duplicate what a loudness control does. I used to be a purest... now the only thing that matters is how it sounds.