Codependency vs. Enmeshment - Codependency is what happens *after* you've been enmeshed. 1. I am a bad person if I see somebody in pain and I'm not there to protect or save them. 2:14 2. I am responsible for other peoples' feelings when they share them with me. 4:34 3. I have to be perfect and do my best to never hurt anybody in a relationship. 5:14 4. Other peoples' problems that I see are mine to solve. (v.1) -or- are my fault (v.2) 6:33 5. I need love and approval from others *in order to be safe* in the world. 9:29 6. Guilting and shaming myself keeps me good and thus safe. 10:38 (Emphasis: *You don't punish yourself into becoming a better person/into solutions* :O ) 7. My sense of self is directly connected to others 15:22 8. Core wounds and fears 15:59 - What if I'm abandoned; what if I'm alone forever; what if I'm unloved; I'm not enough as I am; what if I'm unsafe; I'm not worthy of love so I have to earn it from others; I have to betray myself to please people- all of which drives codependency long-term Woww, Thais, your codependency series is really nailing it. I came to this channel to understand and process my experience with the DA ex and the spiteful, disastrous way he left my life. But over time I find myself 100x more interested in healing my own attachment system. I've almost completely stopped watching DA videos except when it seems like it applies to my avoidant side, and been focusing on downloading and learning about the FA system. Other channels don't break it down the way you do, so it escaped me for awhile that the Integrated AC/FA strategy fits, but I also couldn't understand why the AP descriptions didn't really fit either. Your work is so important, thank you! *To anyone healing this stuff and looking for other great resources:* *Heidi Priebe's* channel goes way into depth on the scapegoat child, the golden child, and other stuff about dysfunctional family systems along with C-PTSD and attachment trauma. (She frequently references something called "the DMM model" of attachment, which looks at it as a set of adaptive strategies to one's early environment rather than a fixed style of being.) *Brianna MacWilliam* expounds on attachment from a more spiritual- but still grounded- angle. (It would be amazing to see all three of these women on a podcast one day.) *Alan Robarge* and *Patrick Teahan* are awesome as well. Both of them deal in-depth with various relationship and family dysfunction, and their videos tend to be longer (so are Heidi's) and more detailed. *Therapy in a Nutshell* walks you through several processes such as somatic experiencing. Finally, *Crappy Childhood Fairy* is a channel dedicated entirely to healing from C-PTSD. *Books:* C-PTSD: From Surviving to Thriving, Pete Walker; Healing the Shame Within, John Bradshaw; The Body Keeps the Score (can't think of the author); Hungry Ghosts, Gabor Mate'. *From Surviving to Thriving has a 13-step process for getting out emotional flashbacks that has been extremely helpful for me. *Effective therapies:* EMDR; somatic processing; polyvagal toning (regulating the vagus nerve to downregulate/calm down the nervous system) And if anyone wants a perspective on *healing* this stuff while in *addiction* recovery, head on over to MY channel, "How to Sober." I'm just getting it started, but I have 22 yrs of (continuous) recovery under my belt and much learned in that time. Evidently, addiction is a big FA struggle as well.

When I was growing up, if my mother tripped or hit her hand or whatever. She would blame me. She would scream my name I would get hit or violently screamed at. So I grew up with a constant pit in my stomach. Feeling completely responsible for everything like if someone fell, or if there was a car accident, I felt this pit in my stomach and it was constantly telling me it was my fault. My mother also said I caused her to have a car accident when I was two. I started trying to prevent people from falling or doing my best, to even stand in the way of things so no one hurts themselves. This carried on you my adult life I would intervene in dangerous situations that had absolutely nothing to do with me and often get hurt. It took a really good therapist to help me rectify this and feel relaxed in the world.

What you said about feeling like “GOD THE SAVIOR” was what convicted me to stop this behavior. As a Christian believer, this posture, which I thought was “noble”, because I learned it at age 5, literally went against my entire faith, realizing that: I AM NOT GOD. I’m not responsible for others needs nor feelings. I’m only responsible for respecting their boundaries, needs and wants, not providing them to fulfill my purpose in life. IM RESPONSIBLE FOR MY NEEDS, WANTS AND BOUNDARIES. My identity is not attached to an exterior person, but to the Holy Spirit of God in me, an infinite God, greater than my finite perspectives, WHO loves me UNCONDITIONALLY. ❤

This really helps. I don't want to mother anyone anymore. I'll stick to nurturing plants. 😄

For me, accountability can be a loaded word. I like the word repair. If we truly think of our relationships as deep bonds that are vital to our health (or un-health), it gives greater perspective to the idea that repair, and some level of forgiveness of self and other, is necessary to keep moving forward, not backwards. Yes, proper repair requires both people to be fully accountable, but it's also our ability to make peace with self. "I came to the table, I owned up to my side, I listened in an attempt to learn and make better sense, and now I move forward". For me, that is health. If rupture and repair was not normalized in your childhood - something more like rupture and sweep under the rug that resembles a mountain of garbage - then THIS learning, rupture and repair is how relationships grow and deepen (the opposite of what we were taught) is vital. It leaves space for self and other to grow, while preserving the bond. We are ALL fallible. You CANT argue with emotion, yours or others. Healthy relationships are about balance, and you won't wake up one day in balance. You need to walk our on the tight rope, one step at a time. Trust grows in repetition and emotion, like Thais often says. Also, if it doesn't work the first time, you can try again. Or, at least if you got somewhere, you now have more information for next time. Because inevitably, there will be a next time. At least the door is open now, rather than closed - Ed Tronic calls this the messiness of relationships, and he likens it to the messiness of the universe (Lol not kidding).

It's the need of us to control Control is one of our basic needs and if we had no control in our childhood we feel weak when we are not in control As an AP i have all of this with my af My god heal our hearts 💓

The amount of depth of understanding you have for people is truly astounding. 😲

have a beautiful weekend everybody! sending love and strength to all :) xx

What helps me understand this concept is that there are only two behavior options in this type of unhealthy dynamic with other dysfunctional people. Despair or protest. In the example at first the protagonist tried protesting- yelling and and complaining. Because in environments where you are not allowed to talk, communicate freely and be understood, the only way to protect yourself is to violently protest against it. If that doesn’t work, you shut down, and go into despair. A depression that tries to repress the fear and trauma of the dysfunctional lack of healthy connection/empathy/attuned/recognition etc. In this example the despair is the self blame/punishment, which internalizes the abuse and violence towards ourselves in lost hope/grieve the loss connected in the first place. It’s like the baby studies where the mom gives the infant a stonewalled expression. At first the baby yells and tries to regain connection, when that doesn’t work they panic and cry because nothing worked to get mom back.

“We don’t punish ourselves into solutions” hit me like truck-kun. A word 🤌🏻🤌🏻🤌🏻

This video is the one that opened my FA's eyes and got her to start doing the work. Thank you so much.

U r my favorite teacher, Thais! Thank u for sharing so much information - priceless

**ETA: "you don't punish yourself into becoming a better person" 😭😭😭😭😭 wow. Wow. Wow. I have NEVER been told that in my life! I love you Thais!!! Dang this video called me out 🤣 Let me go revisit that codependency course

Extremely insightful. You know the information resonates when you start to feel uncomfortable. Thank you for your kind delivery, any other way and I might have clicked off. Invaluable information I never got sitting with the many therapists throughout my life

Oh how I wish we'd been shown this video at school 20 years ago. Would have been the single most important lesson of my life!

My codependent story is: I have to understand AND sympathize (and solve) with people’s intentions all the time to keep the connection ‘good’. I therefore forget what I need in romantic relationships.

It’s time to heal

I have severe symptoms like you are explaining. I NEED this SO much. I don’t know if it could truly set me free. It is hard for me to imagine. You are a GREAT SSPEAKER and you seem to know your stuff. I am 69, ready to die, and on a fixed income. You are SO good I bet I won’t be able to join your class. That breaks my heart. But thank u for just what you have taught me. God Blesd you❤️😴✝️

It's too easy to lose myself when in a relationship. After three marriages and relationships, I'm not doing it anymore. Been alone for many years now.

I've been codpendent for many years caring and compassionate to everyone expect to myself I've lost relationship even jobs i tend to draw ppl to me that are not always good for me lately I've noticed not so bad these day's hopefully healing even enjoying my own company Thanks Thais much appreciated

That's me, time to break free. Thank you so much.

Having a LOT of thoughts (and feelings) in response to this video (thanks, Thais!), but one of the things I'm thinking about is the part about operant conditioning that you mentioned (rewarding good behaviour and punishing bad behaviour). "It's how we are socialised" as you said. As a newly qualified teacher, I'm thinking about how this intersects with my practice. Behavioural management in the classroom is so hard, especially for a fearful-avoidant person like myself, who often gets dysregulated by all the demands in the classroom. I'm currently substituting in various schools and get the chance to see how they approach behavioural management. Pretty much all schools use point systems. Many teachers discourage taking points away and the best-practice is considered to be focusing on rewarding positive behaviour rather than reprimanding negative behaviour. This is easier said than done, but, especially what you say about the ineffectiveness of self-punishment, I must conclude that I need to really make a concerted effort to lean into the positive behaviour reinforcement approach as much as humanly possible. As I do my own self-development work, I think, if this is good practice for adults, then surely it is for kids as well. I'm having to unlearn a lot of stuff as an adult that i see as normalised in society. It makes sense that educational systems like schools would still be using approaches that lead to unhealthy beliefs and behaviours in adulthood.

Dear Thais I am the one that always receives the PDS mails from you & yes I often struggle with feeling bad even when not being available & therefore doing the right thing. I feel like not being allowed from God & life to hurt people back & treat them badly, when they did to me, too. I am someone who believes in the process of giving & taking and therefore I think what one deserves deserves other, too. There is no better, powerful who's allowed more than you. What one does to other, will come back to him. By the way, I love the lessons you always teach us for our mental well-beings. 💎🎀

Truthfully… To me this is very confusing and sounds almost impossible, especially to practices with the people we’ve become codependent with… I feel like I understand this all perfectly… But become very anxious and stressed when trying to sort it out in my mind and how I would go about actually practicing it in real life. Specially with my kids. I have so much guilt about The things that they are falling short of, because I feel I have caused a lot of it. What a vicious cycle and I would love to break it. Your videos are the closest I’ve come to you actually understanding and feeling motivated to change

wow. i need to watch this every day.

I feel responsible for everyones emotions and its so frustrating because i can't do anything about their emotions..yet i feel guilty for not being able to fix it. It tears me up inside.

It's crazy how many people beat themselves up for making a mistake, using guilt & punishment. As Thais mentioned that's how most of us have been raised, so it makes sense. I always say the force, or at least the strongest force is the love to grow which is so much easier when you lead with love instead of punishment. What do you think?

I related to this less than I thought I would which I suppose is good thing, but man I think #5 is the culprit or at least part of the problem. Your reasons and signs make a lot of sense. I think there is inherently something in us that wants approval and acceptance from our peers. We need community, as in some ways being a supported member of a community ultimately does mean increased safety. However, not everyone is going to like me, and I have to be ok with that. As a 28 year old male struggling with #7 as well because I'm in the middle of season of "where do I want to go next" as well as chronic stress from a house remodel, I've had a heightened sense of wanting to lean into community. However my vibe has been quite the downer and leaning too much into victim mentality. While community is good, I can't neglect myself of become codependent to try and earn what I so desperately seek. I know not everyone has the same belief, but this is where imo I need to go to God more and trust him with my life, and ask him to help meet my needs, as well as me understanding how to get my needs met in healthy ways (Which to be honest, is talked about a lot here, but never really explained in tangible ways. I think soo many people meet their needs through unhealthy coping mechanisms. I'm starting to think there are very few healthy ways to meet needs lol, at least for me)

We recently had a webinar about this topic!! and I always love it when she shares the bank teller stories!

This is right on, ME!! I am so severely depressed and anxious after a lifetime of this. I am ready to give up

What would happen to a fearful avoidant should they stay in a physically and emotionally abusive relationship. I have looked all over for the answer to this question but can't find it. I have heard the consequences can be very serious, but can't find what those are. There is a reason I'm asking that I'm not comfortable discussing in a public forum. The hustle of the holidays with everything else I have going on makes working a program right now impossible, but I will become a member after the first of the year.

WOW💛 this is the root of so much of my pain and suffering. I thought I had grown from a lot of these behaviors but recent events have shown that my boundaries really are not where I need them to be. Trying not to self shame and just apply the small changes each day. Will definitely be taking the course xoxo I can NOT continue to self abandon

Wow Im so happy I found this video 🤯

Wishing you a nice day ❤

Damn I’m punishing myself into becoming a better person

Your videos are always right on time ❤️

I can identify with these and need your course.

Do for the anxious attachment

This was so helpful, thank you so much

I know a lot of people like this. Some of them is from cultural upbringing and others is bad parenting (cuz that's all their parents know).

You say that you shouldn't feel you have to be perfect for everyone else. But what happens if you're consistently rejected if you don't behave the way everyone around you wants?

So many awful, incompetent therapists out there- if all therapists were like Thais, imagine the better society we would have!

Please stop propagating the myth of codependecy. humans are made to depend on each other and emotionally connect. a good married couple will be what you call codependent and enmeshed, and yes, you are responsible for your married partners health, wellbeing, safety, emotions etc and you cant constantly consider yourself first. this babble is hurting marriages worldwide and enabling selfish behaviour in marriages.