Another question Theists sometimes ask Atheists. linktr.ee/JimB...
Пікірлер: 704
@righty-o35853 ай бұрын
I've had people unable to comprehend how i can not know for sure if any gods exist, while also lacking the belief that any gods exist . It makes perfect sense to me
@rizdekd3912Ай бұрын
I agree....this guys example totally misses the point. The problem is that the word God is associated with so many different concepts all the way from, God is existence, to God is good...ie literally good, to God is love...ie literally love...and love, to God is the necessary existence founding all existence, to God is a morally perfect being who created mankind in his image and will eventually judge all humans in some way and our eternal fate is determined by this judgement process. And this guy is also supposed to have walked with Adam and Eve in the garden, made the sun stand still to help someone win a battle, made a deal with Satan over Job, who flooded the world because he was angry over sin to raining fire on Sodom and Gomorrah to punishing David for his adultery by killing his child to order the slaughter of the Canaanites. NOW we have a better picture of what an atheists is faced with. OF COURSE an atheist believes in existence...so immediately someone will say, well that means you're not really an atheist. Or someone believes in goodness or love or value. And of course those are things many theists can only come from God. So whatever founds those for the atheist becomes his 'God' and viola, they're no longer atheists. But it becomes meaningless rhetoric to say those things are God and therefore anyone who believes in them suddenly believes in God. OTOH, given that laxness in definition, I can on any given day think God exists and then on another day think God doesn't exist...I merely switch definitions. When I need God to exist to explain why there is no much evil in the world...ie because that's how God made the world, there he is...the explanation and I'm exonerated from feeling any responsibility. But when I want to do wrong and don't want God looking over my shoulder, I merely think he doesn't exist. That's how that's supposed to work, right?
@joelogjam916320 күн бұрын
@@rizdekd3912It would be an attribution error to conclude that someone is Atheist simply because they want to do wrong without God looking over their shoulder.
@NigelHatcherN16 күн бұрын
@@rizdekd3912 Idiot. I doubt you know your mind, you don't know mine As for beliefs, we all have them they are personal, ephemeral and not really applicable to anyone else. Think how you like please leave me to think how I like.
@lefantomer15 күн бұрын
@@rizdekd3912 "God is a morally perfect being" say those whose desperate childlike "need" for Sky Daddy enables them to evade the fact that the god portrayed in the Western biblical tales is a less than benevolent tyrant who rules through fear and humans "need" to imagine that celestial beings exist and "love" them.
@truerealrationalist7 күн бұрын
@righty-o3585 It's like how I've had people unable to comprehend how "I don't know" has f*ck all to do with what you _believe._ Agnosticism doesn't equate to, entail, or even imply an absence of belief.
@billcook476823 күн бұрын
There are a ton of people who believe in Zeus and try and speak to him. In my old neighborhood you would hear people saying Hey Zeus all the time.
@HungryWarden23 күн бұрын
That’s funny, because I have a friend named Jesus which is meant to be pronounced “Hey Zeus” but he prefers to be called “Jee-Sus”. Also one time I was on a call with him and I made a stupid Among Us joke calling him “Jee-SUS” and he changed his online nickname to “JeSUS”.
@royleon35252 ай бұрын
The Bible tells us that God spoke to Abraham and Moses and Ezekiel. Thousands of years ago. He told them to spread the word, but they only had their memory and sandals, even with Gods help that was a formidable task. Nowadays we have WiFi and Internet and still we get no direct word from God. How easy would it be to send a world wide Epiphany to everyone and yet we still hear nothing!
@thomasthellamas9886Ай бұрын
It’s almost like God doesn’t want to save some people
@kunstfaerdige8214Ай бұрын
If He appeared and spoke to everyone, what then is the value of faith?
@thomasthellamas9886Ай бұрын
@@kunstfaerdige8214The biblical definition of faith I’ve heard from Christians is trust, belief, and submission.
@kunstfaerdige8214Ай бұрын
@@thomasthellamas9886 No.
@twine682Ай бұрын
then EVERYONE would KNOW @@kunstfaerdige8214
@diegodaguyАй бұрын
I lack a belief in gods anywhere period.
@user-zb1yw5vs4c25 күн бұрын
You lack the basic skill of immortality.
@diegodaguy25 күн бұрын
@@user-zb1yw5vs4c so?
@Spiritof_7624 күн бұрын
@@user-zb1yw5vs4c As do we all.
@NigelHatcherN16 күн бұрын
@@user-zb1yw5vs4c So do you.
@nordicexile737823 күн бұрын
Don't care what you say, I believe in Zeus and the other Olympians! Homer is their prophet and the Iliad/Odyssey is the record of their divine history. Just read for yourself to learn the Truth!
@Joe-bx4wnАй бұрын
You dont believe in Zeus cos you want TO SIN!
@martinconnelly147322 күн бұрын
What about Thor? There is evidence for Thor because Thursday is named after him 😂😂😂
@byteme971817 күн бұрын
Sin? Prove it exists.
@martinconnelly147317 күн бұрын
@@byteme9718 I rent out some accommodation and use third party agents. Their contract has rules for the tenant that say the property should not be used for any purpose that is illegal or immoral. I have repeatedly asked what are examples of acts are immoral but not illegal so I know what to look out for and their reply has always been silence. So it seems the lawyers are covering themselves without being able to define what immorality (which to me would be the definition of sin) is.
@Joe-bx4wn17 күн бұрын
@@byteme9718 Look it up in Webster's
@cgisme12 күн бұрын
@@martinconnelly1473on the same basis Friday is named after Feria, Wednesday after Woden and Santa after Christmas
@davidhitchen5369Ай бұрын
I don't believe Zeus exists. My lack of belief in Zeus is not a belief.
@davidhitchen536921 күн бұрын
@@brittianyclements1821 NO. You believe in what is affirmative. Your take is like saying not smoking is a habit. Theists believe, atheists don't. If you don't go to the store today and somebody asks you what you did today do you answer "I didn't go to the store."? If you do you didn't answer the question. That's not what you did today, it's what you didn't do. Same thing here.
@samwize2817 күн бұрын
@@brittianyclements1821so stupid. What is your name? ‘Well my name is not John.’ The affirmation is always the starting point.
@XJWill117 күн бұрын
@@brittianyclements1821 I don't like how you phrased it, "certain belief". I think that the vast majority of people do live their lives with many implicit assumptions, among them that Zeus does not exist. But few of those assumptions are "certain", since the proposition of existence is unfalsifiable for many things. But it is a reasonable point that, from a practical standpoint, most people live their daily lives with the implicit assumption(s) of nonexistence of any of the infinite number of things for which there is no good evidence of their existence.
@siqueirabarros16 күн бұрын
You believe Zeus does not exist. This is a belief. And you are a mere believer. Contrary to agnostics, who humbly claim: I do not know.
@siqueirabarros16 күн бұрын
@@davidhitchen5369Atheists are believers. Most of them. And many make atheism a religion. You certainly seem to fall in this category. 😔
@patbrennan657222 күн бұрын
I like Zeus, seems like a guy you'd like to have a beer with.
@pencilpauli94422 ай бұрын
By Jove's hairy balls Zeus is REAL I tell you. I've seen Disney's Fantasia! What more proof do you need?
@My_trashtalking_account24 күн бұрын
If you can show me a book that says anything about him, I'll be convinced.
@Jive3319 күн бұрын
@@My_trashtalking_accounthahaha
@thegreatgazoo757916 күн бұрын
Zeus is not in Fantasia.
@pencilpauli944216 күн бұрын
@@thegreatgazoo7579 Oh yes he is! He's in the 3rd movement of Beethoven's 6th "Pastoral" Symphony chucking lightning bolts.
@pencilpauli944216 күн бұрын
@@thegreatgazoo7579 3rd movement of Beethoven's 6th "Pastoral" symphony. He's the dude in the clouds chucking lightning bolts.
@stevencarr400220 күн бұрын
I didn't believe Zeus existed the moment I read that Zeus was unable to do anything because the opponents had chariots of iron.
@stevesheppardmusic17 күн бұрын
I believe in Zeus, but then again I do live in Cyprus, so I'm going to join the cult of Aphrodite.
@lefantomer15 күн бұрын
Wise choice.
@tinman6522 ай бұрын
The more specific you begin to describe the proffered deity like Zeus or Yahweh, the more I feel comfortable saying I do not believe that they exist. Because there are simply more claims to contradict with evidence of reality.
@upgradeplans77725 күн бұрын
Do you mean you feel more comfortable saying you believe that they do not exist? Saying that you do not believe that they exist, means that you just lack that belief, which should be the starting position. Evidence against Zeus moves you closer to believing that Zeus does not exist. Or at least, it should for anyone who aims to believe what is true.
@dino907126 күн бұрын
This should be retitled the history of Zeus in three minutes.
@anthonycrumb5753Ай бұрын
"About the Gods I have no means of knowing either that they exist or that they do not exist or what they are to look. Many things prevent me knowing, among others, the fact that they are never seen." Protagoras - Essay on the Gods - 5 cent BC, from Christopher Hitchens - The Portable Athiest.
@Thethreethatareone3 ай бұрын
The thing that annoys me the most with this question is that often when it is posed the person seems to not comprehend that i can say with some certainty that specific gods do not exist. Say that one is defined with enough things that i can say that at least that specific version does not exist. Other deities however can be inconsistently defined and therefore my certainty that they *dont* exist is much lower. However i can still treat them as if they dont due to lack of evidence that they *do* exist. For instance say someone posits a god defined as one who actively intervenes in the world and leaves a distinct mark when they do so. If that mark is never found in the world then that god can be almost 100% ruled to not exist. However at the same time a god who does intervene but leaves no mark or other way to identify the interference is one i cant say with certainty doesnt exist. In the end, so long as the world shows no evidence of any god or gods, my belief is that i should interact with the world as if there isnt one since my life would remain the same either way.
@dfjpr2 ай бұрын
Ironically, an invisible God and no God, is to a significant degree the same thing. And the more the religious mind leans upon a highly active God, the more they are leaning on escapism from the real world, by making up films for themselves. A theist can use incantations to call upon the power of God to change the traffic light, but the engineer who installed it knows how it works.
@mattyd2818Ай бұрын
The problem with this is that the argument is not claiming or asserting with certainty. It is either I do not believe or I believe that...hard atheism need not be a claim of certainty, it is a personal belief either way.
@gordon318616 күн бұрын
I can't say for a fact that leprechauns don't exist anywhere in the Universe. I just haven't been presented with any convincing evidence that they do. When I am, I'll consider the possibility. Until then, I put them in the same category I do gods.
@mattyd281816 күн бұрын
@gordon3186 So you can't say: 'I believe no leprechauns exist'?
@Thethreethatareone8 күн бұрын
@@mattyd2818 I think that was the point of their comment, somewhat like my own. At risk of misrepresenting, "I believe no Leprechauns exist" is something that theyd likely agree with. However the firm, or hard atheistic as you had said, statement of "Leprechauns do not exist" is one where there is a lack of evidence either way. While this is a rather tangential example, I imagine it would be like saying (with 100% conviction) that giant squids *do not* exist, since around a hundred years ago we didnt have much more than hearsay and legends for their existence. Lo and behold more recently we have concrete evidence of their existence, so the statement in the past with 100% conviction seems rather silly no? The same is the case the opposite way, saying something does exist then come to find verifiable evidence of whatever thing being a hoax or nonexistent.
@Foxglove883 ай бұрын
I like Greek mythology I found a book at primary school, trying to read the stories as a child inspired me more than anything else to learn to read & understand them it was great fiction. The Bible, read to me every school day was just mediocre fiction.
@darrennew821125 күн бұрын
Of all the religions I've looked into, Christianity is by far the most boring. And full of losers and celebration of losers. The OT god of abraham would be embarrassed.
@Spiritof_7624 күн бұрын
Every school day? How horrid.
@LOwens-xf8yoАй бұрын
As a new vegetarian, I was often asked, are you allowed to eat this or that? as if I didn’t have control over that decision. It implied I was following guidelines other than not meat. I hear a lot of that here.
@drewidlifestyle7883Ай бұрын
There’s a lot of overlap between vegans and vegetarians…. Some vegetarians are more strict and are closer to vegan, no eggs for example, so yeah I think it’s a fair question I think the problem is semantics, “are you allowed to eat eggs” vs “do you eat eggs”
@anthonycrumb5753Ай бұрын
Zeus lives on top of Mt Olympus, with the other Gods, jest 'cos you can't see Zeus dosen't mean he is not there. Don't mess with the 'Big Zee' or he will strike you with a thunderbolt, all you disbelivers have been warned.
@clintonhowe8821 күн бұрын
Well....I mean....we have been to the top of Mount Olympus. And nobody was there.
@RogueDragon0517 күн бұрын
They actually climbed Olympus back then, and there are to this day countless shrines/offerings to various gods. I believe they rationalized the lack of god by saying the lived in a secret undiscoverable part of the mountain and or operated in a different reality.
@RustyWalker2 ай бұрын
Well, for Zeus, both! I reject the proposition that it is the case that Zeus exists but I am confident enough to affirm the proposition that it is the case Zeus does not exist outside Greek myth.
@jimralston4789Ай бұрын
Precisely. Same goes for gods of Sumerian, Roman, Phoenician, Assyrian, Hittite, Judeo-Christian etc...
@truerealrationalistАй бұрын
@RustyWalker Why aren't people willing to express their tentative assent to the proposition that no deity exists (without affirming the same)? What is the benefit in expressing an "absence" of belief, if not to gain a dialectical advantage and thereby eschew the need to justify anything? Bear in mind, I am explicitly acknowledging the distinction between the *doxastic* position of "I _believe_ ~p is more likely than p," which does not strictly invoke a burden of proof and the *epistemic* position of, "I _know_ that ~p is true," which _does_ invoke a burden of proof. That is to say, one can truthfully say, "I don't know, _but_ tentatively believe it to be the case..." So, why not do that? I don't "lack" belief in propositions and feel no compulsion to hide behind a nonsensical concept like "nonbelief." I either believe they are true or I believe they are false, whether justifiably so or not belief isn't a choice; it's intellectually dishonest to pretend otherwise; and it's intellectually bankrupt to think that I cannot possibly hold any unjustified or illogical beliefs.
@RustyWalkerАй бұрын
@@truerealrationalist I don't think it's that. I think it's a question of refusing to play the game by the rules theists demand. Theists want and demand atheists take an affirmative stance solely to reverse the burden of proof (more usually, evidence), and dodge the defence of their own outrageous claims.
@truerealrationalistАй бұрын
@@RustyWalker Do you assert that your "lack" of belief in any deity is genuinely different from believing there is no such thing?
@RustyWalkerАй бұрын
@@truerealrationalist Did you even read my OP?
@jamesaston41028 күн бұрын
I’ve always liked how Ricky Gervais puts it when asked by believers why he doesn’t believe … “There have been an estimated 3000 gods in history, you deny the existence of 2999 of them, I just choose to deny the existence of 1 more than you!” Brilliant.
@a.i.l107421 күн бұрын
This certainly communicates what it's like to be an atheist, but it's a terrible argument against theism. A few objections: 1) There are 3000 views of god, it's present in every human culture. Does this make it more likely that there's no god, or that there's at least one? Seems just as reasonable to conclude that these 3000 ideas must be referring to something real 2) The difference between zero and one is not the same as the difference between different forms of polytheism. I'm sure there are different Hindus who believe in just one less god than their neighbour, but share everything else. The difference between monotheism and atheism has implications in every area of your life and philosophy. 3) This assumes that the same arguments are used for each god. That's not true, there are profound differences in the arguments and supposed evidence given by people in different faiths. I may reject Islam because I feel the Quran is unreliable, but the Quran being unreliable is not a good reason to reject Buddhism.
@jamesaston41021 күн бұрын
@@a.i.l1074 well, there were 3000 views of god back when people were ignorant and didn’t know any better. That’s changed now because information has allowed society to become enlightened and aware. Back in those times gods were created to explain fire, thunderstorms, wind etc but there is no need for that anymore due to a thing called science. You may regard the analogy as a terrible argument against theism, but in the absence of anything more detailed I think it does just fine, and I threw it in there as it’s a fun analogy too :) I can come up with a multitude of cogent and robust arguments against theism, but they’d be lengthy and KZfaq would no doubt block virtually everyone if I used just one contentious word that upsets their algorithms.
@jamesaston41021 күн бұрын
@@a.i.l1074 ya know I think I’m done with KZfaq. I just wrote a response and it’s instantly hidden. To be honest I can’t be bothered anymore.
@a.i.l107421 күн бұрын
@@jamesaston410 ah, annoying. Understandable, doesn't even give notifications half the time either.
@jamesaston41021 күн бұрын
@@a.i.l1074sorry. I did try. Hope you have a good rest of the day 😊
@serenusedmonds45803 ай бұрын
New subscriber! I love your work!
@JimBarrows3 ай бұрын
Thanks for subbing!
@Jazzdumpling20 күн бұрын
One time during a storm I started playfully insulting Zeus and my house was immediately struck by lightning. Be careful
@Jay-xw9llАй бұрын
I think Zues exists. Now where's my tax break?
@langreeves641924 күн бұрын
You'll get a tax break once you form a church of Zeus. And YOU don't get a tax break. The church gets a tax break on money that is used to run the church.
@thegreatgazoo757916 күн бұрын
Zeus stole it.
@DOMinatorxXx4222 күн бұрын
Zeus was a person who existed thousands of years ago, way before even the greeks. What happened was there were major catastrophes that devolved humans technologically and the people who came after are attempting to tell history in a frame of reference the masses of their time can understand. Every religion and mythology is essentially a cargo cult. Im not certain but I think zeus was Sargon. Sargon, Semiramis, and Ur Zababa are the foundation for the vast majority of gods and goddesses of the post flood world.
@mikedeluca38972 ай бұрын
It’s pretty simple zero evidence for a god, 100% evidence that man creates gods. DUH!
@someone61703 ай бұрын
I'm assuming it is a misunderstanding that whilst an Atheist lacks a belief in a God or Gods, they can have a position on a certain God or Gods that they positively believe that the God/s don't exist. Most if not all Atheists have not looked into every God that has ever been claimed to exist or every possible claim that could be made therefore they are both agnostic and atheistic about these Gods. However in regards to certain Gods they may have looked into it sufficiently to come to the conclusion/belief that the specific God or Gods don't exist.
@byteme9718Ай бұрын
Do theists research every god to confirm only their delusion is the truth?
@mattyd2818Ай бұрын
The problem with that is that there has never been anything offered that 1. Distinguishes/differentiates one "god" from another and 2. Distinguishes any (see argument 1)"god" as something more than a man made mental construct. So, belief that no gods exist, not just picking out ones that have been thoroughly "investigated" is completely justified and rational.
@drewidlifestyle7883Ай бұрын
@@mattyd2818I think the op’s comment confuses atheists with antitheists. All antitheists are atheists not all atheists are antitheists if you understand my meaning
@darrennew821125 күн бұрын
@@mattyd2818 Disagree. There are holy books and stories. The god of the bible is definitely distinguished from the gods of the greeks which are distinguished from the gods of the azteks.
@mattyd281825 күн бұрын
@@darrennew8211 What is one distinguishing feature?
@ysgol32 ай бұрын
Great stuff as always Jim, subscribed - maybe I'm your first Welsh subscriber!
@KubilayErtuna23 күн бұрын
Zeus is Lord!
@BKNeifert22 күн бұрын
Yep. You should read Machiavelli about the lightening. Specifically Discourses on Livy. Shrewd man, not a nonsensical person, he believed in God based on the evidence. Not a nonsense person at all.
@doktordanomite910523 күн бұрын
As a pagan This is an interesting question, pagans are not “mythic literalist” the myths are tools for us to connect to the the divine, and even just making them the natural force in and of themselves was rare amongst philosophers of the period.
@sonpacho24 күн бұрын
The first question is better asked to monotheists. They can perfectly understand NOT believing in gods like Zeus, Horus, etc. Just tell them Atheists don't believe in one more god than they do.
@AlexanderShamov23 күн бұрын
The problems is that their reasons for disbelieving in other gods are not the same as our reasons. And the atheists' reasons aren't the same either - not all atheists are skeptics, etc.
@sonpacho23 күн бұрын
@@AlexanderShamov I don't see the distinction. Why does the "reason" someone doesn't believe in something matter?
@AlexanderShamov23 күн бұрын
@@sonpacho Because the whole point of this argument is to get the other party to apply their own skepticism about Zeus to their own god. But their position on Zeus is not that of skepticism. If they thought like skeptics do, they wouldn't be theists.
@sonpacho23 күн бұрын
@@AlexanderShamov Their position is that of disbelief. That's all that matters. Why they don't believe is irrelevant.
@Narikku20 күн бұрын
Ancient Christians referred to figures like Zeus as Satan. It is what spawned gnostic-like beliefs of the evil Demiurge.
@iamfiefo22 күн бұрын
Obviously, Zeus does not exist! Aphrodite on the other hand...
@user-ce8lr3ff6v21 күн бұрын
While using Alexander was the son of Zeus is a fun way to parrot Christian claims right back at them, some tend to dismiss anything about Zeus because he is not a creator god. Prometheus was the Greek god that created humans. The Egyptian god Ra is closer to the Abrahamic Yhw.
@royleon352511 күн бұрын
Please read the Books of Zechariah Sitchin, starting with “The Twelfth Planet. All is revealed to those that believe in invisible men in the sky.
@thegreatgazoo757916 күн бұрын
If you believe in Zeus, and he exists, well, that will surely please him. Wait? He doesn't care one wit what you believe? Imagine that!
@offthefront753710 күн бұрын
Who came first Zeus or Jesus?
@petermeyer687326 күн бұрын
"Do you lack a belief that Zeus exists, or do you believe that Zeus does not exist?" Neither. I know that Zeus does not exist! Anyone alive today, who just believes in the (non-)existence of Zeus hasnt thought this through.
@gandalainsley646724 күн бұрын
Well no matter what we believe Zeus existed. He still exists its just that he goes by different name. A common thing things like them do. Just change the name and keep doing what they did before not really changing much of anything. Very similar to humans in that way. Change the name of the action and suddenly it turns into something completely different even though the action is the same. There is one "God" active in Mexico that was worshipped by Mayans and Aztecs(and probably others but I am not aware of them). Belief those who worship that thing have is that if you worship it, it will give back in return and make you powerful here but on the other side its gonna be worse for you. A lot of Cartel members worship it.
@Transmutathan20 күн бұрын
My question to anyone interested is: Does there exist anything outside of the limits of our own universe
@JimBarrows20 күн бұрын
@@Transmutathan I’m unaware of any way we can know if “outside of our own universe” is even something that exists.
@thegreatgazoo757916 күн бұрын
@@JimBarrows Anything you can imagine, exists.....in your imagination, which is something, and exists.
@user-hg8ir6ye8cАй бұрын
You can't believe in both but you can believe both don't exist.
@lyndafjellman331521 күн бұрын
You can believe in all the gods at once, the Romans did it all the time, they even had an altar to the unknown god.
@siqueirabarros16 күн бұрын
If multiverse theory is correct (and most likely it is!), then Zeus exist.
@OlgrenEmberarm326114 күн бұрын
If you accept the book of enoch it explains alotta this
@mattlivingston219210 күн бұрын
How is this an "or" question? An atheist believes that Zeus, like all gods before and since, does not exist. That same atheist also lacks a belief that Zeus exists.
@lukeng903410 күн бұрын
If you believe that Zeus and God doesn't exist, then you are a coherent atheist. If you believe that Zeus doesn't exists, but only lack a belief that God exist when it comes to God, then you may need to ask why the difference.
@JimBarrows10 күн бұрын
God is a generic term. That Christians assume their god is their problem. Define the god you believe in, and then we can talk about that god's existence. In general, because the supernatural has not been proven, and gods are, by definition, supernatural, I don't believe in them. However, such things could simply be difficult to prove, so I'm not willing to say they don't. I am willing to say they are highly unlikely, given the lack of evidence over the last 2,000 years or so. Hence the position "I lack a belief in any gods".
@JamesRichardWiley3 ай бұрын
Zeus is real but Yahweh is make believe. You see the Romans outnumbered and defeated the Jews so Zeus wins.
@JimBarrows3 ай бұрын
evidence? :)
@whatwecalllife70342 ай бұрын
Not only did they beat the Christians but they even took over their entire religion, and did better with it then they ever could as one of the greatest "fuck you's" in history. 😂
@Spiritof_7624 күн бұрын
But the Romans converted to xtianity then spread it throughout Europe. It's obvious that it won because deluded people still believe it by the millions. How many still worship Zeus?
@katabasis999921 күн бұрын
Where are the romans today? How many people speak latin?
No you didn't, he told me that he never spoke to you.
@lupeabogdan565816 күн бұрын
@@thegreatgazoo7579 🤣😂
@gl85613 ай бұрын
Let's say I lack a belief in Zeus. There are not enough proofs for his existence and at the same time there are too many proofs to the contrary. But how can I tell for sure? Maybe this lack of positive proofs and abundance of counterproofs are something that we, as mere humans, cannot properly comprehend with our intellect and senses and we are just wrong (if today's theists can use this kind of excuses, so can I). Still though, based on available descriptions of Zeus, I can at least anyhow conceptualize who/what he is. Greek gods in many aspects are just like us, but divine. They speak like us, they eat and sleep like us, they have anthropomorphic bodies. So we can produce just any idea in our minds, what they are. The Abrahamic god on the other hand... He's said to be an omnipotent, disembodied mind. What does it mean to be omnipotent exactly? No idea. How can consciousness exist without physical brain? We don't know. And they say he also existed before time? What? How does it even work? Something existing without time doesn't make any logical sense. And so, as I have never even been demonstrated any coherent description of the Abrahamic god, I find the existence of Zeus much more likely.
@irenehartlmayr83692 ай бұрын
I would like to draw your attention to the fact that even physics has NO DEFINITION for time !
@goldenalt3166Ай бұрын
@@irenehartlmayr8369I'm pretty sure those definey book people have a defintion for "time". A time has a well defined role in physics so i don't know what you're talking about.
@irenehartlmayr8369Ай бұрын
@@goldenalt3166 Sorry,that is wrong.Physicists ( " the definey book people " ) do NOT have a definition for time. Because nobody knows what time IS. Time has a well-defined role in Physics and Chemistry,because time units are used as parameters in measurement.BUT there is no definition of time as such. The relativity of the time EXPERIENCE ( depending on the relative position and speed of the observer ) was delineated by Einstein,in his theory of relativity. And the human experience of the passage of time (divided into past,present and future ) is probably due to our brain structure.We can't experience it all together.Our brains have to chop it up into three parts. However,there are " psychic " people who CAN see the three parts together....denied by science,of course....but nobody knows HOW . There is no explanation for that ( yet ). You can check on all that in a standard textbook of Physics...
@goldenalt3166Ай бұрын
@@irenehartlmayr8369 I can see you don't understand. But the idea that "time" isn't defined is ridiculous.
@irenehartlmayr8369Ай бұрын
@@goldenalt3166 Oh really....! I'm a scientist but don't know about science....And YOU are a fool,who doesn't understand anything.THAT is clear. Ever heard of Dunning-Kruger....? You are the best proof of that well-known psychological theory,based on fact.Congratulations. Time is not defined and that is a fact. Just in case you know what a Physics textbook IS,just check on it there.But maybe you can't read either....who knows?! Fools usually think they are smart,but don't know about anything....
@lemuello66421 күн бұрын
Thank you.
@Dan_C60411 күн бұрын
Yes but…. Deep down, you know Zeus exists and you just want to rebel……. LOL
@user-md9yv7jx2c2 ай бұрын
So just what actual evidence is there that makes God any more reasonable than Zeus?
@irenehartlmayr83692 ай бұрын
Religious experience.But that is subjective and spiritual and cannot be material.
@djangolegАй бұрын
No
@irenehartlmayr8369Ай бұрын
@@user-md9yv7jx2c What evidence do you want? Apart from that,there is no text saying anything about Zeus & Co.
@stephenolan5539Ай бұрын
@@irenehartlmayr8369 The Iliad claims to be the words of The Oracle.
@nietzscheII-oz4zj24 күн бұрын
@@irenehartlmayr8369 you mean brain malfunction?
@viralsheddingzombie53243 ай бұрын
explicit atheism vs implicit atheism. The problem is, most people don't understand the definition of the word "belief," because the word is connected to their religious schooling that asserts gods and angels and demons are real. People use "belief" very loosely. For example, people often say "do you believe in the Constitution?" Well, the Constitution is written on paper, it is not a belief, it is a tangible object.
@irenehartlmayr8369Ай бұрын
@@viralsheddingzombie5324 Writing things on paper doesn't mean anything unless what is written is BELIEVED.Or put into practice. Lots of people might say that what is written in ( any ) Constitution is junk and rubbish. And there are also people who don't " believe " in science,in the sense that they don't trust that science is the truth about certain material things.Science is a mental model of what humans BELIEVE to be the truth about matter ( only ).
@irenehartlmayr8369Ай бұрын
@@viralsheddingzombie5324 Things written on paper are useless unless they are BELIEVED. Or implemented. Being written somewhere,on its own,does not imply truth.
@drewidlifestyle7883Ай бұрын
You do understand they mean the concepts on the constitution though. They don’t mean the paper. I doubt you’d say you believed in the Bible because you understand you mean the concepts in it. I feel like your argument is worded poorly because it seems to be arguing a point no one makes
@viralsheddingzombie5324Ай бұрын
@@drewidlifestyle7883 It's very simple. I am arguing the difference between beliefs and facts.
@irenehartlmayr8369Ай бұрын
@@viralsheddingzombie5324 The things written in the Constitution are NOT facts,they are BELIEFS !!..
@Nak_Muay_Farang1120 күн бұрын
I don't know if he exists, and I don't believe he does. Same with every other god.
@ObservantHistorianАй бұрын
As an atheist, I state the atheist position this way: The most unlikely answer of all to the great questions of existence is one whose central concept ("god/gods") has no understood or agreed meaning among the untold billions throughout history who have claimed god beliefs; whose untold thousands of iterations are so improbable, so wildly contradictory, and so equally without evidence, that none can be believed; and one that offers no consistency or predictability whatsoever in answer to anything.
@brucetownsend69112 күн бұрын
Fun fact. Yahweh (Aka Jehovah) is the jealous Hebrew storm god who morphed into the one god of Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Zeus is the Greek name and Jupiter the Roman name. If you don’t believe in Zeus, you don’t believe in “god”.
@johnengland8619Ай бұрын
Thanks Jim
@noahbodycares30053 ай бұрын
I lack a belief that Zeus does not exist! Checkmate
@righty-o35853 ай бұрын
Lol That means you think Zeus does exist
@MarcLombart27 күн бұрын
"There's not a lot of evidence that Zeus exists." What balderdash you quote. There is no evidence that Zeus or any deity exists. And according to our understanding of physics, such cannot exist.
@chriswest8389Ай бұрын
If God exists he has to be a meta Zeus. The God of the N.T in particular it looks like unfortunately 😱
@Phlebas23 күн бұрын
I don't really know the context behind the question, but I can guess. Saying "I lack belief in a god" seems a bit like a cop-out. I get that it's meant to force the burden of proof on the theist, and I agree that that's where the burden of proof should be, but it feels like a dishonest way of stating one's position. I believe that gods don't exist. Zeus, the Christian god, even the impersonal deistic god. I suspect that's true for a lot of atheists. Of course, by making a positive claim ("I believe that X doesn't exist" as opposed to "I don't believe that X exists"), I'm taking on the burden of proof and staking out a more difficult rhetorical position, the fact is, I actually do have reasons for believing that gods don't exist, and I feel capable of arguing my position. We shouldn't shy away from making a case for atheism. If the point of these arguments is to try to change minds, I think a positive argument has more sway than constantly repeating "where's your evidence?". Which isn't to say you shouldn't ask, but if you're going to engage with the argument, engage with it.
@HungryWarden23 күн бұрын
I get what you’re going for, but I have a ton of experience arguing with Christians and sometimes Muslims but mostly Christians but they were usually stubborn and not open minded. This is likely a product of how characters in the Bible don’t really use logic and facts, God kind of just bails them out when they need to do that.
@AlexanderShamov23 күн бұрын
There's a nice technique called rationalist taboo, it's used to avoid stumbling blocks that are purely linguistic rather than substantial. The whole question of disbelief vs. negative belief can be sidestepped by tabooing the term "belief" and explaining our positions without it. For example: "We all have a model of how the world works. Mine doesn't include any concept of God." Is that disbelief or a negative belief? What the hell is the dfference?
@JimBarrows23 күн бұрын
Any claim can have three positions. You can accept it as true or as false. The third position you can take is the "I don't know" position. That's the minimum position an atheist can take. Since it's difficult to prove a negative, I don't know the most rational position. Given that most Christians disagree on their definition of a god, it's also the most rational position.
@AlexanderShamov23 күн бұрын
@@JimBarrows I don't know whether it will rain tomorrow but I have an umbrella for that occasion. Acting like the single most important truth about the universe is entirely irrelevant is not what genuine uncertainty looks like. In the context of God, "I don't know" usually means "I'll signal open-mindedness because that's what the cool kids do nowadays, but think and act like God doesn't exist, because for all practical purposes that's clearly the case".
@nebuchadnezzar689421 күн бұрын
@@AlexanderShamov No it just means that they don't believe in God but also can't disprove its existence, because such a thing would be impossible. Hence they lack a belief in God.
@md-sl1io19 күн бұрын
existance includes real and imaginary so superman and zeus exist as fictional imaginary things
@BlackDeath92028 күн бұрын
They will say "Zeus didn't die for our sins".
@nietzscheII-oz4zj24 күн бұрын
jesus didn't die for our sins. ha just had a shitty weekend. not very impressive.
@mesplin322 күн бұрын
So the answer is both.
@johnchambers983611 күн бұрын
Makes more sense than the bible
@rationalmuscleАй бұрын
I’m sure you believe this is clever but the answer is simple: you’re equivocating “God” (name the deity) and “god”. I would assert with absolute confidence to the point of belief as much as one can believe and assert anything that neither Zeus nor Yahweh exist. I cannot do the same with the concept of a god as the definitions are impossible to quantify. Both Zeus and Yahweh fail imperial tests for logical consistency and coherence. To believe in Yahweh entails believing in a demiurge that evolved over time from a polytheistic to mono deity, who possesses logically incoherent attributes such as omniscience and omnibenevolence, etc. so I assert Yahweh cannot exist unless you contort both evidence and what “existence” even means.
@chrispbacon304212 күн бұрын
Zeuz exist because my holy book says so.
@drewidlifestyle7883Ай бұрын
As a Christian that question probably works better the other way around doesn’t it? Atheists don’t believe in any gods I’m not sure what the “gotcha” or confusion is supposed to be. Christians have to do a bit more work on this. Usually in the form of other god are demons that convinced humans to worship them. I’m not trying to start any fights I converted from agnosticism (which I use to mean unsure either way) so I don’t hold anything against atheists I understand the arguments.
@eizzy7078Ай бұрын
Converted from agnosticism to what?
@Spiritof_7624 күн бұрын
@@eizzy7078 He started off with "As a Christian..."
@Spiritof_7624 күн бұрын
You don't understand the arguments or you'd also understand why being a Christian is delusional.
@Nak_Muay_Farang113 ай бұрын
I believe Zeus does not exist. I do not know. I also lack a belief in Zeus because I choose not to believe in Zeus. None of this proves or disproves his existence, nor the existence of any other deity. If any of us are being honest about it, at best, we are all agnostic. Belief has nothing to do with knowledge.
@PhrontDoor3 ай бұрын
Knowledge is justified true belief. Most god definitions are self-refuting OR easily refuted by simple process. Zeus is said to live on Mt Olympus. We know that's expressly not true. We can see the whole of Mt Olympus and know there to be no gods. Nobody can "choose" what they believe. If I asked you to 'believe' that you were a billionaire king living on a moon of Jupiter right now, you couldn't.
@williamliamsmith492311 күн бұрын
I think Dheus Pitru exists.
@BlackDeath92028 күн бұрын
Does not exist.
11 күн бұрын
You accept the claim there are no gods or no gods exist. No one cares about the claims you don't accept. So it's false you don't accept any claim about gods when you do.
@henryhansen3662Ай бұрын
You really believe in Zeus you are just denying him and the other gods and goddesses in unrighteousness.
@My_trashtalking_account24 күн бұрын
Just for the sake of playing supernatural idiot's advocade, I think he's asking you how you can you claim that Zeus does not exist, while we atheist usually say it's not that we claim god doesn't exist, bytt rather that we simply reject any claim that he does exists.
@2l84me8Ай бұрын
I don’t have $5. I also lack $5. Neither is a claim.
@thegreatgazoo757916 күн бұрын
Yes it is. You are asserting something, and it is testable.
@2l84me816 күн бұрын
@@thegreatgazoo7579 So you’re claiming the person is lying about not possessing something?
@thegreatgazoo757916 күн бұрын
@@2l84me8 I'm saying that a claim is being made about not having $5.
@Joe-bx4wnАй бұрын
BOTH
@Outspoken.Humanist24 күн бұрын
Whilst I agree with the goal expressed here, I think the argument is weak. Belief in any god, regardless of specifics, requires first a belief in the supernatural; a realm where everything we know and can demonstrate about the universe is irrelevant, precisely because all claims about the supernatural cannot be shown to be wrong and thus may be true. Once that hurdle is overcome in the mind of believers, it is possible to find reasons to believe in anything and to make excuses for anything. To paraphrase Mrs Gump, 'gullible is as gullible does'. Nothing a believer holds as true has to make sense to anyone else, nothing has to be necessary and nothing has be explainable though science or logic. That's kind of the point when you think about it.
@jamiegallier21064 күн бұрын
❤❤❤
@carloscisneros888724 күн бұрын
I don't know if god exists but I'm sure, yours doesn't.
@thomasdearment321425 күн бұрын
all myths are based on a tad bit of reality, but if you look at them, they go off the rails like religion of any kind, Ie there was a Jesus but all of what he says is it the truth no,
@jamesaston41021 күн бұрын
As a content creator you may end up with disenfranchised viewers who make comments that then get hidden. A response I’ve just made to a post just got instantly hidden and it contained no profanities or contentious content. I’m done, but you may see a reduction in footfall to your site as a result which will ultimately mean less business for you if others experience the same and share my frustration. Have a cool day :)
@JimBarrows21 күн бұрын
Interesting. I didn't do it. I would say I didn't do it intentionally, but I've done zero things with any of the comments on my channel. I'll look into it.
@JimBarrows21 күн бұрын
I've looked for your comment, and I don't see it in my "held of review" queue or any place within the admin portions of my account. I think KZfaq would let me know that they deleted or hid your comment, and it didn't. I'm not sure what happened. Please repost your comment, and let me know so I can watch for it.
@jamesaston41021 күн бұрын
@@JimBarrows just a heads up fella and I’m sure you didn’t do it either. I think it’s over zealous censoring by KZfaq, maybe, with their algorithms. I’ve seen many other people on other channels say similar things. To me it’s a frustration but nothing more. But to a content creator like yourself the more frustrated people get it could result in a real decrease in footfall to their site, and ultimately that could have a knock on effect to business I guess.
@jamesaston41021 күн бұрын
@@JimBarrows it was a rather lengthy (but not stupidly long) response to a comment from @a.i.l1074 if that helps.
@wprandall24522 ай бұрын
I thought this was a question FROM an atheist, since you atheists always say that atheism is not an active belief system. You usually assert that it's just a LACK of belief in God.
@nothinghere199610 күн бұрын
Hpw does your view as an atheist change if God were a projection. Not a supreme being, but rather the fabric of matter and time in the universe. Still not believe?
@JimBarrows10 күн бұрын
Why call the universe god then? We have a perfectly good word: Universe.
@nothinghere199610 күн бұрын
@@JimBarrows It's more than just the universe. For example, it is you. It is your brain cells, the synapses, the electrical potential and every thought you have. are you the universe? no. it is the water, it is gravity, and every other force. It is the collapsed probability wave of quantum mechanics, it is the space in between the plank constant. does your word universe describe all of that? and let us not forget, the word God is over 3000 years old. how old is the word universe?
@JimBarrows10 күн бұрын
@@nothinghere1996nothing you’ve said proves your god exists. Of your going to claim the universe ids God, then you need to justify the word change. How old a word has nothing to do with anything. lol.
@nothinghere19969 күн бұрын
@@JimBarrows So. To cut a long story short, you will find fault in every conceivable context, not because you are right, but because you hate the concept itself.
@JimBarrows9 күн бұрын
@@nothinghere1996 How nice of you to tel me mindset. I mean arrogant. Arrogant of you I meant.
@TheFox245029 күн бұрын
Jim, you have asked us a question, but you do not reply. Why? Some, not all, of the commenters would like to interact with you, so I will give you this. We are descendants of survivors from a series of catastrophes that decimated mankind several times. Up until moses invented his 'god' all gods were planetary. Zeus, & many other names, is Jupiter, Minerva et al is Venus, & Mars, being the god of Rome is Nergal. Of course, there are many gods worshiped in many religions worldwide, but they all relate to planet worship when our ancestor survivors were struggling to understand why & what they were doing here. If you really want to understand our recent history, go to any good book store & buy Immanuel Velikovsky's ' Worlds in Collision' & ' Earth in Upheaval' Failure to do so leaves you in the strange position of asking for help, but refusing it when offered. Have a nice day.
@JimBarrows29 күн бұрын
I ask people a question? Interesting, because I start the vid with "Another installment of questions for atheists". Which I do in fact answer the question as an atheist.
@samppakoivula99773 ай бұрын
At last an honest atheist! You should own what you believe, not hide behind "clever" semantics. I respect an atheist who honestly says that they do not believe than one that lacks believe. Yes, I get it, the lack of belief is probably a counter-move to the "argument" of "atheism takes more faith/atheism is a religion" but I think those atheists who comply to this game just give to the theists precisely what they want instead of just squashing the "atheism is religion" argument as nonsense that it is. Atheism isn't religion - it is a worldview, a way to see the world and reality, but a worldview centered around one thing only (although many atheists are also rationalists, but that is another topic :)
@MarcoKrieger3 ай бұрын
Atheism is not a belief. It's a question to a claim. If a theist proposed any God, defining it's properties and laying out rules and regulations for all of us to follow in order to please this God, it's me, the atheist who asks for the evidence of what the theist has claimed to be true. The default position to every claim is to put the claim to a test. Otherwise every claim brought forward has to be believed without questioning, which would be insane. So, I own the burden to question, I don't make any statements of a belief or a lack of belief. I simply don't believe.
@JimBarrows3 ай бұрын
Atheism is not a worldview. It’s a position on one claim. Just like theism is a position on that claim. Theism is not a worldview either.
@samppakoivula99773 ай бұрын
@@MarcoKriegerWell, in its core it is question to a claim, or more precisely a counterargument to claim. So technically being an atheist narrows it down to God or god-like beings. So from that perspective fro example anyone supporting New Age could also be an atheist. Or believe in horoscopes, tarot cards etc. However, in practice it is not often so, as atheists are also very often rationalists and sceptics - which is fine by me. So more often than not atheism is part of rationalistic worldview - again, nothing wrong with that, but that is just how it is mostly. However the shadow of that rationalistic and sceptic influence is the belief that one day science can answer rationally to all questions - and that is a belief based on rationalistic worldview, which is also the leeding worldview of atheists. Now, for sure rationalistic worldview gives wider perspective than just seeking all answers from a "holy" book, but the possible downside it is that it may kill imagination as in "Stop dreaming and get real!" - attitude. Of course sometimes that attitude is in order, but as a constant it leads to dystopia, because only dystopia is devoid of all imagination, a constant free-for-all world based only on survivalism. Yes, it is mostly because of rationalism, but atheism is part of it. Now I agree that ideals of religion about God are just plain BS motivated by desire to theocratic political power and personally I don't want that at all. However not all imaginative things and ideals are useless, but actually a neccessity to the thriving of human society. For example art isn't a neccesity from realistic POV, but it is neccessary in order to prevent the downfall of societies
@samppakoivula99773 ай бұрын
@@JimBarrows Ok, yes theism isn't a worldview,, because it is an umbrella term. However for example monotheism or polytheism ARE worldviews, because they influence how you view to world and how you answer to certain questions about the world, like for example questions about moral/ethics. Atheism doesn't technically give answers to moral questions, but since often (not always) an atheist is also a rationalist their possible answers to such questions are often very pragmatic. No, I don't say one way is better than another, but rather they just have different approach to such questions :)
@JimBarrows3 ай бұрын
@@samppakoivula9977 Again, nope. If I know you're a polytheist, I don't know if you believe only one pantheon exists or multiple. I don't know how those gods influence your behavior or view on anything. The same problem exists with monotheism.
@rizdekd39123 ай бұрын
But it would be easy to just say that sure, there are lots of myths surrounding Zeus. But those are just wild made up stories like some of the gospels that have Jesus as a child doing weird things. How do we know Zeus doesn't really exists as a spirit? In which case, he'd be just like the god of the Bible and no one could say for sure he doesn't exist.
@Spiritof_7624 күн бұрын
There is zero evidence for spirits. The time to believe is when there is evidence.
@real_nosferatu21 күн бұрын
Zeus exists
@Geniusagnostic16 күн бұрын
In god of war
@glenliesegang2332 ай бұрын
Hmmm. Zeus created space-time and understood particle physics? And understood how to digitally encode in base 64 and simultaneously create all the nanomachines which interact with that code as information in DNA, and was uncreated? YHWH is considered to be capable of those things. According to the creation myths, was Zeus created? Odin? Krishna, Shiva, Bramha?
@JimBarrows2 ай бұрын
Can you demonstratte that your god exists, and the he's capable of doing those things? otherwise you've just a claim you can't support.
@neomagnonАй бұрын
@@JimBarrowsGod is spiritual. He cannot be seen, understood, comprehend, measured, with human's limited and imperfect senses, mind and intelligence, which are all in the realm of matter. We can't even see gravity, wind, electricity, synapse, uv rays, etc., feelings and emotions. Science can't even comprehend where atoms cone from and why it exhibits perpetual energy.
@JimBarrowsАй бұрын
@EL-IS-Saturn Now I'm dumber for readint that. Please demonstrate that nothing can actually exist, then that there were, in fact, 2 creators. Then explain why you think there are only 3 dimensions when science says there are at least 4, and Math says there are more.
@JimBarrowsАй бұрын
@EL-IS-Saturn Now you've said even dumber stuff and haven't responded to me at all. *LOL*
@JimBarrowsАй бұрын
@EL-IS-Saturn *LOL* You have nothing still. Your definition of a square root isn't even close.
@AbdullahIbnAbdullah-pk1kf3 ай бұрын
I don’t find his evidence for the denial of Zeus’s existence to be sufficient
@gknight47193 ай бұрын
What would then?
@AbdullahIbnAbdullah-pk1kf3 ай бұрын
@@gknight4719 when I go outside and I see lightning in the sky it is proof that Zeus is angry
@gknight47193 ай бұрын
@@AbdullahIbnAbdullah-pk1kf Good one! Now i know you are just having fun.
@tigdogsbodyАй бұрын
You are saying Zuse did not exist; is this your opinion of all gods?
@goldenalt3166Ай бұрын
Have you considered the timeless spaceless Zeus who subtly manipulates lightning bolts to hit christian churches?
@nietzscheII-oz4zj24 күн бұрын
konrad zuse definitely did exist. otherwise this communication wouldn't happen.
@HungryWarden23 күн бұрын
@@goldenalt3166I’m mad at Zeus for doing that, so he must not exist.
@goldenalt316623 күн бұрын
@@HungryWarden You have to be theist to use that kind of logic.
@HungryWarden23 күн бұрын
@@goldenalt3166 it was a joke. I actually reject the existence of god because I just want to sin, not because it’s actually logical to reject the idea considering the lack of evidence, I just do it because I’m petty and I want to do bad things without being told what to do. Obviously.🙄/j
@verhygo484423 күн бұрын
I think many people don't understand what the word supernatural even means. For science, takes only claim to the natural world. But there exist things that can't be measured or observed, superseding this natural world. Things that we call concepts, like truth, love, humility, and so on. Yes, many will claim these to be of human origin, but even if that claim were to be true, it would not change that it does still make these things supernatural since you can't measure them. Only observe their effects on people. So too, has the idea of the Greek gods an effect on the world, or any fictional character for that matter. There's more to it than just myth, but also more than just truth.
@AlexanderShamov23 күн бұрын
The reason we can't measure these things is because they're defined extremely vaguely and "measurement" has a connotation of being a somewhat precise process. To the extent that "love" or "humility" can be defined in terms of observable behavior, observing this behavior does constitute a "measurement", as (im)precise as the concept itself is, and I don't see how any of it is supernatural.
@verhygo484423 күн бұрын
@@AlexanderShamov It is, because that is how we defined these things in the past. They are not found in nature as a physical thing. Just like human conciousness is not a physical thing. Yes, we have found many physical reactions that are related to it. Just like in a computer. But the information itself does not exist physically. Words and letters can not be proven to have a value, they are but ink on paper, one's and zeroes on a computer. What we observe in real life are merely the consequences that these things have on our decisions, which in turn, have consequences on our actions. These are things that people have always known to be, and rationalized as supernatural influences. Laws, after which we act. So to say, supernatural things do not exist, does not make sense to me, especially when we act as if they do. As in the transfer of information through words requires the existence of truth, logic, reason, which, again, are not physical things, but transcend the physical world, and exist only in the same realm as human conciousness. If anything, we may argue about the nature of these things, and if we want to continue calling them supernatural, but to dismiss them entirely as just made up, when we need them to communicate or even think, seems disingenous. I know people have a problem with accepting this as definition for what supernatural means, but that makes it all the more important to first define these things correctly. And if we want to use a more scientific name for it, that does not change how these words were traditionally used to describe them.
@AlexanderShamov23 күн бұрын
@@verhygo4844 You're just calling any abstract concept supernatural. By that logic the number "2" is supernatural. But that's not what people usually mean by this term. When we dismiss the supernatural, we're not dismissing all abstract concepts, we're specifically dismissing the made up ones that don't correspond to anything in reality.
@verhygo484423 күн бұрын
@@AlexanderShamov Yes, it is not what people usually refer to when they use that term. But would you then consider numbers or mathematics to be a part of the natural world? Surely not. Numbers aren't something we find within nature, even if they, and mathematics especially, are something we consider as an accurate representation of the laws that rule it, or at least, accurate enough to describe how they work. What do you think, how people who had no idea about how abstract concepts exactly work, what they are, or how best to describe them did describe it with the limited understanding they had? They certainly knew that lighting existed, but not after which rules it operates. They knew that certain personality traits existed, but not how they came to be. That's all reflected in the way they viewed the world they could see and the world they couldn't. Which is reflected in our language, as well as in our stories. The tragedy of Narcissus, just as much as the decadence of Dionysos, or the authority figure of Zeus, that takes pleasure in hunting young women down. Each part that is to these myths is in itself full of truth, sometimes more than we would like to admit. Especially when talking about certain deities like Mammon. The love for money is very real, and so is people's obsession, or even their possession by it. Heaven and earth, the spirit and the body, the material and the immaterial, the physical and the metaphysical, all that refers to the same dynamic. The world above us, with rules and laws we yearn to understand, the world beneath us, that we force our laws upon, and the world between where we exist. The mind, the psyche, the consciousness that we use to rationalize what we can perceive. I do not argue that we should believe and worship all that is to it, certainly not. But people often enough still act like it. They make sacrifices to scientific efforts, worship the results of them, and the success and benefits that we receive. People dismiss the supernatural as purely superstition but become mindless zombies to political ideologies or fear the impact that Fortuna has upon their lives. They discard love, compassion, and forgiveness as a weakness and proceed to drain the blood from society until the light of truth turns them to ashes. Or, just recently during the me-too movement, they fear the might of the predators of the night, animals that wear human skin, only to feed upon the weakest of society in the shadows that the full moon casts. There's a deep truth to all stories that people wrote down and still do. What we should do is not to dismiss them but to discern fiction from reality. However surreal, it may seem at first glance. Sorry for the comment spam. KZfaq blocked my comment for some reason...
@izzycrybaby11643 ай бұрын
The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.
@righty-o35853 ай бұрын
It absolutely can be .
@averagebodybuilder3 ай бұрын
@@righty-o3585tell that to donald rumsfeld
@PhrontDoor3 ай бұрын
But the absence of evidence IS sufficient reason not to believe. And a lack of evidence makes it harder to respect those who DO believe.
@righty-o35853 ай бұрын
@@PhrontDoor I agree 100%.
@RustyWalker2 ай бұрын
@@righty-o3585Yeah. It needs a "necessarily" in there for the counterexamples.
@marcusshakur348121 күн бұрын
All gods existed, then Thanos snapped his fingers. The Avengers is based on a true story.
@philippevie32582 ай бұрын
I believe zues did exsist but wasn't a god just a flesh n blood et aided by an advanced IQ an advanced technologies multi pantheons of gods for different civilisations but ultimately the same beings
@Spiritof_7624 күн бұрын
That was an episode of Star Trek (the original series.)
@philippevie325824 күн бұрын
@@Spiritof_76 excellent 👌
@IdentityCrisis158125 күн бұрын
I don't have a lack of belief that zeus exists. I know he doesn't, just like i know that no gods exist. They were a way for ancient people who didn't understand nature to explain natural forces, and human behaviors.
@wprandall24522 ай бұрын
Why is it that gods like Zeus with forms never have any proof, whereas the god of the Jews has endless examples of His veracity?
@JimBarrows2 ай бұрын
What do you mean Yahweh has endless examples of his veracity? Do you have an?
@wprandall24522 ай бұрын
@@JimBarrows 11 Proofs of God - The first Being 1) Elemental logic - We ourselves are proof of God. No entity or thing can give out more than it possesses in store. Or stated another way, nothing can create anything superior to itself. The sun can’t give out more energy than it retains in its reserve. A person can’t take more money out of his/her wallet than is actually in it. In short, how can the universe create what it does not already have the ability to create? We exist, so the universe produced us. The universe must be at least equal to us, and then superior to us because it created us. The life system, then, is a person. 1b) We didn't create ourselves. Our parents procreated us, but their parents procreated them, and theirs them, and so on back through history. This can't however, go on forever, or "ad infinitum." There has to be a beginning to the line of ancestry, due to causality. This infers a person who was not procreated. This we call "God." 2) The nature of the human being to comprehend eternal concepts and values - This is related to Aquinas' 4th law of 'gradation of being'. If there exists in a being something of partial nature, then there must exist somewhere a whole from which the part came; therefore, a being who is of invisible nature, and that is God. What is a collection of molecules doing conceiving of eternal laws and values, and therefore in part being one with them? Laws and values are abstract qualities such as: good, evil, love, hate, truth, math, geometry, etc. We are inseparably integrated with these laws and values - our sanity depends on them. 3) The nature of humans to speak a language. We don't just make programmed sounds, as animals do. We create languages to convey ideas, and intentionally express ideas and concepts in primary sequence fashion, which in language is called a "sentence." The sentence consists of 5 parts: subject, verb, indirect object, preposition (a directional), and direct object. Why do we do this, as if we were part spiritual? 4) The nature of human beings to create "design forms". Other animals create design forms such as nests, holes, webs, beehives, etc. These are all, however, limited and repetitious, as if programmed into the creature, which they are. There are no buildings, sculptures, works of art, or even complex housing in the animal world. But we create all these things. 5) The nature of human beings to create machines - Humans have some ability at this time to create design mechanisms that move on their own, as well as perform programmed functions; a simpler prelude to a living being. It's called AI. But somewhere in the past some type of intelligence created self-replicating machines that think and act on their own. We call them "animals". There are billions of types of these animated forms. Where did the universe get the ability to create them, unless the universe itself is a living "being?" 6) The creation of animals: At some point, someone created living machines called "animals'. Common sense tells us that living things are always created by living things. But we weren't around when animals were first created. Who created us? Evolution explains animals as having developed over millions of years. There are problems with this theory; one being that all creatures are born with brains that dictate mental operating, as well as all behavioral traits of the creature. Another problem is how animals got started in the first place; it’s called "abiogenesis'. The first organisms were single-celled; however; already complete with DNA and working parts. Protein molecules can't account for this. Where is the mind of evolution? What is "chance?" 7) The Creation of Plants. Plants are a completely different phase of creation. They are not mobile as animals are. They are rooted into the soil, and derive their nutrition from water, the sun, and vitamins and minerals in the soil. But they are also designed machines that we didn't create. Plants take in the CO2 that we breathe out, and in exchange give out oxygen that we breathe. The leaves of plants perform photosynthesis, utilizing the sun's energy. This function is a very bizarre aspect of nature; that a creature grows out of the ground and reaches up with leaves to receive energy from something it knows nothing about. Plants have DNA also. How does evolution account for this - Plants remain separate from animals? 8) Primary Particles: The primary particles of physics are themselves proof of God. This is due to the necessity of physics to be generated in a moment of space-time. Particles are definite, finite, and have measurements. Something must then "choose" to bring them forth. Choice is via intellect, and intellect is from, and an aspect of, a being. 9) The nature of humans throughout history to create religion and worship some sort of deity. Why do we worship? There is the exception of atheism, but it is mostly a cult ideology of rejecting God and worshiping self, illustrated by worshiping evolution and science. It is worshiping your own thoughts and beliefs. In effect, it is a pagan religion. 10) The Law of Moses: The Ten Commandments are additional proof of God. There were actually 13 commands given to Israel on Mt. Sinai. The very first one said to have no other gods before Jehovah. Here a monotheistic god provides meaning to the obeying of laws against sin. Israel understood at the time that it was God giving the commands. 11) Jesus the Messiah or Christ: Why should a religion have a Messiah? Of course, Jesus represented God on Earth. But his main purpose for being born into the world was to die on a Cross for our sins. This separates Christianity from all other religions in that the messiah dies for human sins. Did something unusual happen in the Garden of Eden? Did we truly actually disconnect from God? If so, it was necessary for God to save us at a future point in time. Can anyone disprove these proofs?
@johnnybgood74422 ай бұрын
Such as??
@glenliesegang2332 ай бұрын
How did a brainstem stroke victim of 7 years, who could not even grunt differently enough to communicate yes or no, suddenly start speaking clearly 10 minutes after 2 people in another room asked God to help him speak clearly to enable his medical team to understand his medical difficulties? More than 60 people were witnesses to his before and after abilities.?
@johnnybgood74422 ай бұрын
@@glenliesegang233 did anybody investigate this claim? Where is this story published?
@ronbock829124 күн бұрын
Could there be a Proto-Zeus? A Stone Age chieftain who defeated his father, a biggish fella, and then accrued supernatural powers over millennia of retelling?
@strappedfatman78583 ай бұрын
All Ancient Civilizations worshiped the Queen of the Heavens God's! The Wisdom of the Apostle Paul was literally out of this World! Lol! When Zeus and Hermes came down to the Earth. Lol! Acts 14:11 When the crowds saw what Paul had done, they cried out in the Lyc·a·oʹni·an language: “The gods have become like humans and have come down to us!” 12 And they started calling Barʹna·bas Zeus, but Paul Herʹmes, since he was taking the lead in speaking. 13 And the priest of Zeus, whose temple was at the entrance of the city,* brought bulls and garlands to the gates and wanted to offer sacrifices with the crowds. 14 However, when the apostles Barʹna·bas and Paul heard of it, they ripped their garments and leaped out into the crowd and cried out: 15 “Men, why are you doing these things? We too are humans having the same infirmities as you have. And we are declaring the good news to you, for you to turn from these vain things to the living God, who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and all the things in them. 16 In past generations he permitted all the nations to go on in their ways, 17 although he did not leave himself without witness in that he did good, giving you rains from heaven and fruitful seasons, satisfying you with food and filling your hearts with gladness.” 18 And yet despite saying these things, they barely restrained the crowds from sacrificing to them.
@strappedfatman78583 ай бұрын
Joseph - Imhotep - Thoth - Hermes! Hermes, the Greek god of interpretive communication, was combined with Thoth, the Egyptian god of wisdom. The Egyptian priest and polymath Imhotep had been deified long after his death and therefore assimilated to Thoth in the classical and Hellenistic periods. When the Greeks learned that the Egyptians had a god Thoth, or Tehuti, who specialized in wisdom and learning, they named him Hermes Trismegistus, or “thrice greatest Hermes.” Supposedly Hermes Trismegistus was the scribe of the gods who authored the sacred hermetic works that described the material world as well as the quest for spiritual perfection. Altar and Pillar Isaiah 19:19 Revelation 5:5 Imhotep - Joseph the same person who built the step pyramid. Acts 7:10... God gave him favor before Pharaoh, king of Egypt. God also gave Joseph unusual wisdom, so that Pharaoh appointed him ruler over all of Egypt and put him in charge of everything he owned. The Great Pyramid has 8 sides. The 8 sides represent the 8 kingdoms of the world. Jesus is the corner stone. The last kingdom to rule forever. There is actually ten sides counting top and bottom. First Empire was Nimrod. Who represents Babylon the Great, the Empire of false religion. The bottom of the pyramid is a side. All eight Kingdoms of Revelation ride with the harlot, Babylon the Great. The Great Pyramid having no top corner stone and the top being flat is the Harlot. Jesus is the cornerstone the builders rejected. The Nations would rather follow the Harlot than Jesus. Revelation 17:9 “This calls for a mind that has wisdom: The seven heads mean seven mountains, where the woman sits on top. 10 And there are seven kings: Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet arrived; but when he does arrive, he must remain a short while. 11 And the wild beast that was but is not, it is also an eighth king, but it springs from the seven, and it goes off into destruction. Matthew 21:42 Jesus said to them: “Did you never read in the Scriptures, ‘The stone that the builders rejected, this has become the chief cornerstone. This has come from Jehovah, and it is marvelous in our eyes’? 43 This is why I say to you, the Kingdom of God will be taken from you and be given to a nation producing its fruits. What does the Sphinx really represent. Because Jesus is the Lion of the Tribe of Judah. Isaiah 19:19 In that day there will be an altar to Jehovah in the middle of the land of Egypt and a pillar to Jehovah at its boundary. 20 It will be for a sign and for a witness to Jehovah of armies in the land of Egypt; for they will cry out to Jehovah because of the oppressors, and he will send them a savior, a grand one, who will save them. Revelation 5:5 But one of the elders said to me: “Stop weeping. Look! The Lion of the tribe of Judah, the root of David, has conquered so as to open the scroll and its seven seals.”
@strappedfatman78583 ай бұрын
7 × 77 = 539 AD Water Damage on the Sphinx! Jesus is The Lion of the Tribe of Judah! It was known from the beginning! Jesus opens the 7 seals! The altar and pillar! Isaiah 19:19 Revelation 5:5 The Land of Nod, Was the sign of Cain a Lion. Cain worshipped Jehovah God. He offered sacrifices to him. So did Jehovah forgive him by marking his land with the Lion. The Mark of Cain. Genesis 4:13 At this Cain said to Jehovah: “The punishment for my error is too great to bear. 14 Today you are driving me from the land,* and I will be hidden from your face; and I will become a wanderer and a fugitive on the earth, and anyone who finds me will certainly kill me.” 15 So Jehovah said to him: “For that reason, anyone who kills Cain will suffer vengeance seven times.” So Jehovah established a sign for Cain in order that no one finding him would strike him. 16 Then Cain went away from before Jehovah and took up residence in the land of Exile, to the east of Eʹden. Genesis 4:24 If 7 times Cain is to be avenged, Then Laʹmech 77 times.” Matthew 18:21 Then Peter came and said to him: “Lord, how many times is my brother to sin against me and am I to forgive him? Up to seven times?” 22 Jesus said to him: “I say to you, not up to seven times, but up to 77 times.23 “That is why the Kingdom of the heavens may be likened to a king who wanted to settle accounts with his slaves.
@strappedfatman78583 ай бұрын
Why is 70 AD important! 7 × 77 = 539 AD! Those Who Worship the God of Abraham! YHVH! Yehovah! Jehovah! There was only one true Faith. Paul was in the sect The Way. Paul worshiped the God of Abraham! Revelation 2:2 ‘I know your deeds, and your labor and endurance, and that you cannot tolerate bad men, and that you put to the test those who say they are apostles, but they are not, and you found them to be liars. Revelation 2:6 Still, you do have this in your favor: that you hate the deeds of the sect of Nic·o·laʹus, which I also hate. Revelation 2:15 In the same way, you also have those adhering to the teaching of the sect of Nic·o·laʹus. 16 So repent. If you do not, I am coming to you quickly, and I will war against them with the long sword of my mouth. The Legend of the Sword! The Ice Age and The Great Sword How about the myth of King Arthur after The Roman Empire made Christianity the State Religion. By using their image the Cross and Trinity teaching. Which is sun, moon and star worship. Revelation 17:17 The skies became darkened. In AD 539, the first of three massive volcanic eruptions ushered in a ice age. It coincided with an epidemic of the plague, the decline of the eastern Roman Empire, and sweeping upheavals across Eurasia. The 2nd seal of Revelation 6:5 When he opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature say: “Come!” 4 Another came out, a fiery-colored horse, and it was granted to the one seated on it to take peace away from the earth so that they should slaughter one another, and he was given a great sword. 🗡 With the land bridge frozen to the Americas. Britain became the 7th Kingdom of Revelation. So what year did this Kingdom become the Wild Beast with two horns. The false prophet and wild beast arrived with the Great War of 1914. Revelation 13:11
@strappedfatman78583 ай бұрын
Jehovah God's Spirit Directed World! God's Chariot! Revelation 17:17 Nero of the Roman Empire worshipped the Sun God Apollo! Even if Jesus did not exist they would follow Sun, Moon, and Star Worship! Revelation 17:17 The Roman Empire allowed Christianity but created a Pagan Jesus. Constantine made Christianity the main religion of Rome, and created Constantinople, which became the most powerful city in the world. Historians link the advent of Christianity to Sol Invictus partly because December 25 marked the so-called Feast of the Unconquered Sun before it became officially recognized as the birthday of Christ. The Winter solstice, alternatively called Yule or Sol Invictus, is a pagan celebration Emperor Aurelian established in 272 CE. Aurelian strengthened the position of the Sun god Sol Invictus as the main divinity of the Roman pantheon. He declared Dec. 25 as the birthdate of the “Invincible Sun” and made the day a feast-day. Deuteronomy 4:19 And when you raise your eyes to the heavens and see the sun and the moon and the stars-all the army of the heavens-do not get seduced and bow down to them and serve them. Jehovah your God has given them to all the peoples under the whole heavens.
@strappedfatman78583 ай бұрын
Trinitarian's follow the Star of David. The same Star the Magi followed. The Tent of Moses is the Tent of David which is the House of David the Samaritan Temple.This is why they worship the Son as Almighty God. Abraham did not worship the Star of David. This is why the Jews called Jesus a Samaritan! John 8:48 MAGI or MAGA Revelation 17:17
@bobgarrett71342 ай бұрын
Nobody believes in Zeus. People take scoffing to a high level and think they're being intellectual when they're being dumb as dirt.
@johnnybgood74422 ай бұрын
How do you know that “nobody believes in Zeus”?
@bobgarrett71342 ай бұрын
@@johnnybgood7442 The same way I know there are no flat Earthers. People who claim they're flat Earthers are pulling your leg for their own amusement -- like the clowns who make crop circles. Number 1. Every idiot can see ships sailing over the horizon long before they'd disappear on a flat Earth. Almost everyone has seen the oceans ... 2. There are no churches, temples, synagogues, mosques, chapels, basilicas, cathedrals, or other houses of worship that are dedicated to Zeus.
@bobgarrett71342 ай бұрын
@@johnnybgood7442 Because nobody is so stupid they'd believe in Zeus. That includes you. It's like flat Earthers. Nobody is dumb enough to believe the world is flat. Anyone looking at the ocean sees the horizon curving downward to the north and south. They see ships sailing over the horizon disappear well before they'd be out of sight on a flat Earth. It's like somebody tells you he's seen somebody 10 feet tall. He doesn't expect you to believe him. He's pretending to be a nut job to pull your leg.
@drewidlifestyle7883Ай бұрын
@@johnnybgood7442hyperbole also statistically irrelevant amount would both apply as answers here
@johnnybgood7442Ай бұрын
@@drewidlifestyle7883 then maybe people that are insulting others should be less sloppy with their language.
@phillipharrington920129 күн бұрын
I lack belief there is no god
@Spiritof_7624 күн бұрын
Poorly educated and/or indoctrinated?
@phillipharrington920124 күн бұрын
@@Spiritof_76 nether, I just lack belief there is no god.
@Spiritof_7623 күн бұрын
@@phillipharrington9201 That's a garbage double negative, or you're just trying to be cute.
@phillipharrington920123 күн бұрын
@@Spiritof_76 how is this a double negative? I just think there has to be a god thus there cannot not be one.
@Spiritof_7623 күн бұрын
@@phillipharrington9201 "...there cannot not be one." There's the double negative, it just needed to be flushed out. There is zero evidence for any god ever existing, just stories from ancient myths. "I just think" is a sorry excuse for rationality. Why can there "not be one"? It should be pretty obvious that it not only is possible that there is not one, it's probable that there is not one.