Does Islam need a Liberal Reformation? with Mustafa Akyol and Dr Ovamir Anjum

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The Thinking Muslim

The Thinking Muslim

2 жыл бұрын

The project to reform Islam has certainly become a popular pursuit, especially of western-based think tanks and policy institutes. At its heart, this project looks to bring Islam into what is called modernity - an embrace of liberalism as a universalism and the inevitable abrogation of those aspects of Islam that have an actual impact on law, order and society. Since 9/11, this reform industry has recruited many Muslims to this venture, to somehow give authenticity to its many claims. At the same time, this project has gained currency, albeit with a minority of young educated Muslims who cannot make sense of the excesses witnessed in the dysfunctional Muslim world and legitimised in the name of Islam. It has become an easy go-to answer to a complex set of political, social and economic realities.
Today we bring together two scholars, each on either side of the reform debate. Mustafa Akyol is probably the most notable Muslim modernist and reformer, he has authored several best-selling books on the subject, most recently “Reopening Muslim Minds: A Return to Reason, Freedom, and Tolerance”. His argument, as we will hear, is certainly well-articulated and nuanced. He writes regularly for the New York Times and other publications. And his is joined with Professor Ovamir Anjum who is Imam Khattab Endowed Chair of Islamic Studies at the Department of Philosophy and Religious Studies, University of Toledo. Ovamir penned a recent piece on the need for a Caliphate and argues against the reform agenda and has written extensively about Ibn Taymiyyah, who was the subject of his research.
As always, you can comment your thoughts below.
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The Thinking Muslim Podcast Episode 57
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Пікірлер: 67
@ruhaimahamed3705
@ruhaimahamed3705 2 жыл бұрын
We are benefiting from dr ovaimer immensely. May Allah protect him and let us benifit more from him insha Allah
@abdishakurfarah3526
@abdishakurfarah3526 2 жыл бұрын
Allah bless Dr ovarim. For speaking the truth. Even if it’s not popular
@antid_oto
@antid_oto Жыл бұрын
On the contrary, Ovamir's views are extremely popular among contemporary Muslims. And that is the reason why people like Ovamir can speak freely in the Muslim majority countries while people like Mustafa cannot.
@saidbendif2834
@saidbendif2834 Жыл бұрын
Very great debate, interesting articulated and informative. Hope to hear more on the channel. Recently the term liberalism is always used in many polemics but seldom clearly defined... That term has become the cultural scarecrow of our modern cultural landscape ... On a deeper level, there is more to say about philosophical liberalism and Islam. For instance, we could argue thatprobably Locke's liberalism owes a lot to Islam as Locke himself was a disciple of the British orientalist Pococke... There is a whole forgotten history to rediscover here...
@abdishakurfarah3526
@abdishakurfarah3526 2 жыл бұрын
Keep up the good work Ahki. This kinda of discourses are very much needed. Even if we don’t agree on somethings. I would suggest if possible do more talks on the obligations of khilafah and how Muslims today can make that a reality Jazak Allahu khairn
@shazieb786
@shazieb786 2 жыл бұрын
Wow, so glad I found this channel
@rosee69
@rosee69 2 жыл бұрын
May Allah bless Ustadh Ovamir Anjum.
@mariachoudry7366
@mariachoudry7366 2 жыл бұрын
First of all, NO ONE punishes you in Pakistan for eating food let alone drinking water in Ramadan. In fact, almost all the bakeries and general stores are open throughout the day, only fast food chains and hotels aren't. There is NO haram police in Pakistan in such a manner. Mustafa sb has exaggerate it.
@antid_oto
@antid_oto Жыл бұрын
Ovamir: The world is facing ecological catastrophe and, therefore, Akyol should forget about being unjustifiably detained by the Malaysian police. WTF! 😁😁
@aminathhassan6211
@aminathhassan6211 Жыл бұрын
Just couldn’t listen further from 34 min in as Dr. Anjun ‘s simplistic understanding of the Islamist leaders and how he relates to his thesis.
@haroon420
@haroon420 Жыл бұрын
Ovamir is a right tool. Had no arguments other than insults and when pressed to give his justifications for something, simply said, ‘read my articles’. Well, why on earth did you participate in this dialogue??
@hmzzrg5045
@hmzzrg5045 Жыл бұрын
Be ready to stand in front of Allah for those words
@fahim-ev8qq
@fahim-ev8qq 2 жыл бұрын
I feel anjum is unable to engage in good faith, or with an understanding of liberalism in general. “Liberal has no philosophical foundation” yeah sure I agree, but that isn’t relevant to how a political philosophy functions. Whether something has a rational basis or not, isn’t really relevant to how or whether it would be established as an inter-subjective political foundation. Even if liberalism smuggles religious values into things, how does this then relate to whether we should for some given utilitarian cause adopt liberalism? The real problem isn’t the philosophical ground liberalism lacks but the failure of that philosophical ground to establish meaningful human relationships and purposes.
@Yoda..
@Yoda.. 2 жыл бұрын
Not much familiar with Dr Anjum, but found his presentation here and in another recent lecture very impressive indeed. I'll be listening more to him. He did a really good job in highlighting the holes in the "progressive" methodology.
@rehanbinnazeem
@rehanbinnazeem 2 жыл бұрын
This was a marvel! It is intriguing to note that Dr Fazlur Rehman Malik was consistently invoked as reference.
@amranali6861
@amranali6861 Жыл бұрын
Great podcast. May Allah honour us by giving us back the Khilafah
@normathomas1356
@normathomas1356 9 ай бұрын
Keep to the Koran Forget the West
@mariachoudry7366
@mariachoudry7366 2 жыл бұрын
Dr Ovamir Anjum has made very logical points. Thank you!
@explore645
@explore645 2 жыл бұрын
Please share the name of background music
@aqe7914
@aqe7914 Жыл бұрын
Khorasan by Sami yusuf
@yusufkhawaja6207
@yusufkhawaja6207 Жыл бұрын
Timeline please
@IdaIda-ur8vx
@IdaIda-ur8vx Жыл бұрын
I can’t believe this is even up for discussion..
@incognito9564
@incognito9564 2 жыл бұрын
Ovamir made good points, which were unfortunately overshadowed by his apologetical/polemical line of approach. We need more thinkers like Akyol & hopefully this will get the staunch traditionalists out of their naive historical decontextualization of the Islamic tradition & revelation, the latter being a more contentious issue. Its just believers wanted God to do more, so they put the Quran on an imaginary standard & any view challenging this hermeneutic like a Fazlur Rahman/ Avincennan reading mentioned by Ovamir is unfairly dismissed as “kufr” or “zandiqa” with an appeal to emotion & to avoid some cognitive dissonance
@althea_is_smokin_hot
@althea_is_smokin_hot 2 ай бұрын
Sirs,no need for liberal reformation. Just treat it as an Arab religion and not a repository of everything on earth.
@mansooraqureshi2696
@mansooraqureshi2696 11 ай бұрын
Yes,Islam needs reformation n that is to shun Cultural baggage.Strip it to basics that are its pillars....Tawheed,modesty, charity respect for humanity,tolerance,patience n to stay away from bringing cultural practices that clash with the Rahem essence that is so dear to Islam.
@abdullahk8691
@abdullahk8691 2 жыл бұрын
Caliphs or khulafaa/Khalifas not caleephs
@notadane
@notadane 11 ай бұрын
The journalist has a better historical sense than the historian. The historian is polemical and journalistic in his "criticism".
@MuhammadArif-db2ez
@MuhammadArif-db2ez 2 жыл бұрын
What's this mesmerising music in the background?
@aqe7914
@aqe7914 Жыл бұрын
Horasan by Sami Yusuf
@moussambmohamedoussein4934
@moussambmohamedoussein4934 Жыл бұрын
Admin would you orginize a debat between this Mustafa guy and Mohammad Hijabi?
@abdultheconfusedhasnath225
@abdultheconfusedhasnath225 2 жыл бұрын
Thinking Muslim ftwwwwww
@drka21
@drka21 Жыл бұрын
Please read this book before saying anything about corporal punishment, the author is a top American criminologist ."Civilization_and_Barbarism_Punishing_Criminals_in_the_Twenty_first century" by Graeme R Newman
@just-some-muslim
@just-some-muslim Жыл бұрын
Can you please summarise it?
@karimb972
@karimb972 Жыл бұрын
Why don't you read muslim jurists? There is no reason for us to read some non-muslim treatise on a topic that we have covered better for longer than you
@muntasifsusmit
@muntasifsusmit 2 жыл бұрын
Dr Anjum provide much better solution. He didnt said we should blindly follow tradition, we can and should reform revive sharia with modern era. But it have to come frm within Islam. Tradition needs to reform with due respect and proper understanding. Definitely Not with Liberal morals. Mr Mustafa argument is it have to be based on Liberalism which is a foreign ideology to muslims not based on Sharia or Tradition and have constantly changing nature. also his argument about reform jews and christians r so bad....why we should follow these People when they watered down their religion so much that it almost dont impact any things in their life. It doesn't make any sense. Its like he want us to win Brownie point to please the society we r currently living. Also when we argue with other people obviously we know they dont believe in Sharia. So we need to use their own ideology to show their hypocrisy. But it doesn’t mean we fully agree with that ideology. Some ideas of mr Muftafa is interesting but it has to be frm within.
@aqe7914
@aqe7914 Жыл бұрын
With all due respect Dr Ovamir didnt offer concrete well argued points come on man, we could do better to defend tradition
@maturidiwesley4107
@maturidiwesley4107 2 жыл бұрын
Listended to the debate. Ovamir just brought polemics to the conversation. Later I understand that he’s a salafi. So not surprised by his antics at all.
@TheGreenPillCoach7
@TheGreenPillCoach7 2 жыл бұрын
What does this even mean? In what world do only Salafis disagree with liberal modernists? You claim "Maturidi" in your title. Tell me how many "traditional Sunnis" are on board with a liberal reformist project?
@sameednaama
@sameednaama 2 жыл бұрын
@Fahim Faruk As a Maturidi, I'd say not many. Also brother @Maturidi Wesley , this name-calling is not helpful...
@abdullahk8691
@abdullahk8691 2 жыл бұрын
So why don't the two of us debate the issue? I won't bring any polemics but you probably will!
@Gilgamishmash
@Gilgamishmash 3 ай бұрын
My God it was painful to listen to Ovamir, even outside the personal attacks. Akyol started with the history of slavery as an example of need of context, which was a sound argument with nothing nefarious in it and no ‘hidden liberal agenda’ behind it. To that Ovamir goes “Oh so you want us to be like non-Muslims huh?? So you want to pick and choose your Islam just say it…” The heck is he on about? It’s a Karen-like rant against whatever immediately came to his mind on reading the words ‘liberal reformation’. And the rant just keeps getting worse.
@MDVaashir
@MDVaashir Жыл бұрын
We need to reinterpret the Quran and Hadiths, to make them compatible with modernity & Humanity. Specially words like Kafir, Riba etc Kafir should be reinterpreted from Non-Muslims to Jinns who follow Satan. Riba should be reinterpreted to 'Sex against money' or prostitution.
@karimb972
@karimb972 Жыл бұрын
Why don't you invent your own religion?
@bokapremik
@bokapremik 2 жыл бұрын
God bless Mustafa Akyol. He is doing great by trying to bring enlightenment in muslim countries.
@abdullahk8691
@abdullahk8691 2 жыл бұрын
He's bringing nothing but enslavement.
@bokapremik
@bokapremik 2 жыл бұрын
@@abdullahk8691 what a stupid statement!!!
@jjqq4116
@jjqq4116 2 жыл бұрын
We are far more enlightened than the liberal self righteous racist woman hating idiots. The rest of the world needs Islam and an erasure of liberalism.
@karimb972
@karimb972 Жыл бұрын
He's bringing darkness like the hundreds of thousands of westernized muslims that have led the muslim world for the last 100 years
@moussambmohamedoussein4934
@moussambmohamedoussein4934 Жыл бұрын
Enlightment has only brought by Allah this Mustafa guy nobody even know who he is
@Ging_10
@Ging_10 2 жыл бұрын
I think it is quite ridiculous to think that such thing as stoning is even part of Islam. You have be out of your mind to accept that God have said such thing in the Quran. I highly recommend Dr. Adnan Ibrahim he is by far the most competent reformist scholar of today. He clearly explained how stoning is a barbaric practice and that the Quran alleged interpretation was never about stoning.
@azharpanalath3560
@azharpanalath3560 Жыл бұрын
Why would stoning being part of Islam be ridiculous when have punishments of crucifixion and cutting opposite limbs prescribed in the quran. Maidah verse 33
@unknownpng650
@unknownpng650 Жыл бұрын
its literally wrrtten in the quran
@mohsinafzaal7159
@mohsinafzaal7159 Жыл бұрын
I feel lucky to find Mustafa Akyol…. Thanks God we can have a discussion like this ….. not possible in Pakistan…. We need to change!
@Rogerdowler
@Rogerdowler 2 жыл бұрын
Modern liberalism is fundamentally opposed to Islam. In fact its opposition to the Muslim and ' other' world is what the concept of modern liberalism is defined in relation to. Akyoldoes not present a deep understanding of liberalism and I feel his whole argument is therefore flawed. He suffers from the same chip on the shoulder of the Muslim worlds need to define itself in relation to Liberal values instead of on its own terms.
@mohammedhanif6780
@mohammedhanif6780 2 жыл бұрын
Is Dr Anjum saying that there is an explicit TEXTUAL contradiction in the Quran that cannot be resolved without recourse to extra-textual sources (in this case the Sunnah) ? But the Quran claims that there is no contradiction in IT. Are we then to say that the apparent meaning of the verse is to be rejected (that the Quranic text alone is without contradiction) and that what the verse intends is that the Quran-plus-Sunnaic-explanation is without contradiction? Perhaps he misworded what he intended. For most Muslims, I'm sure that must sound like a very novel understanding of the Quranic claim that it is without contradiction. As for the substance of the dialogue, Dr Anjum appears equivocal in his stance in being open to Dr Aykol's reservations around personal freedom amd coercive religion, albeit he would, I think, seek an internal justification for any departure from majoriitarian sunni legal positions. Dr Aykol was unable to demonstrate why Quranic laws relating to public policy are in all cases limited to a 7th century Arabian context and Dr Anjum was right in reminding him that the ulama did jot cherry-pick from the Quran but applied specification using an internally consistent logic. I was however shocked at the aggressive personal approach Dr Anjum took but I'm sure he'd not apologise for it and would say that the stakes are too high. We should have more discussions like this and I hope there's a follow-up as both scholars did come to some sort of meeting of minds.
@haroon420
@haroon420 Жыл бұрын
1:07:55 omg.. what the f is Ovamir on about??? 😂😂🤦🏽‍♂️ what a joker.
@moussambmohamedoussein4934
@moussambmohamedoussein4934 Жыл бұрын
This Mustafa guy is very dangerous and I'm not those who do takfir or cancel culture but he is not to be invited in muslim platforms how can you say with confidence without shame that I am selective to the Quran because I value more man-made laws this is clearly Kufr
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