Don't Buy Long Arms Until YOU Watch This Video!! Long Arms VS Short Arms!

Рет қаралды 363,551

Күн бұрын

Today we are talking about long arm vs short arm suspension systems. I get asked about this quite often so I decided to put together some information on the subject. Believe it or not this issue is controversial! Forums are full of people going back and forth but the numbers don't lie. The tests you see in this video can be replicated at home! If you are a pro short arm guy and your skeptical then test it yourself! This is the beautiful part about suspension geometry, It doesn't lie! Enjoy the video and make sure you check out the comments lol. I expect some fireworks here and there 🍿
Also this information applies to all coil sprung Jeep wranglers. JL JK TJ XJ ZJ WJ basically all jeeps with a factory 4 link. Even if you have a DIY 3 link or 4 link, the rules for suspension geometry stay the same.
Jeep TJ Build Series Playlist
• Jeep TJ Stretch Series
AMAZON ITEMS!!! www.amazon.com/shop/dirtlifes...
(Amazon Affiliate Links)
BARNES 4WD COUPON CODE: "dirtlifestyle" 10% off
NORTH RIDGE 4X4 CODE: "dirtlifestyle" up to 20% off www.northridge4x4.com
EMPIRE ABRASIVE CODE: "dirtlifestyle" 10% off lddy.no/qf79
YANKUM ROPES CODE: "dirtlifestyle" bit.ly/yankumDL
ONX MAPS: webmap.onxmaps.com/account-pu...
MIDLAND RADIOS: bit.ly/2IjmlZD
STEP 22:
EVOLUTION POWER TOOLS CODE: "dirtlifestyle" store.evolutionpowertools.com/
JOOLCA HOT WATER HEATER: bit.ly/37qLgEp
Shirts & Hats on our website!!
www.thedirtlifestyle.com
Support us on Patreon!
/ dirtlifestyle
Follow me on social media!!
Instagram: / dirtlifestylenate
Facebook: / dirtlifestylenate
DISCLAIMER:
Due to factors out of the control of Dirt Lifestyle, we cannot guarantee against improper use or unauthorized modifications of this information. Dirt Lifestyle assumes no liability or responsibility for property damages or injury incurred as a result of any information contained in this video. Use this information at your own risk. Dirt Lifestyle recommends safe practices when working on vehicles and/or with tools seen in this video. Any injury, damage, or loss that may result from improper use of these tools, equipment, or from the information contained in this video is the sole responsibility of the user and not Dirt Lifestyle. Be safe!
This video and description contains affiliate links, which means that if you click on one of the product links, I'll receive a small commission.
#longarms #longarmsvsshortarms #shortarms

Пікірлер: 610

@mauiwaverider 4 жыл бұрын

I have short arms as well. It causes me to move the seat forward a few more inches.

@seabasssimpson4547 3 жыл бұрын

Heyoooo!

@sergiojmena 2 жыл бұрын

😂 😂

@israeldelabra9069 2 жыл бұрын

My legs too !

@sylvanbowyer341 Жыл бұрын

FTW!

@retired1822 Жыл бұрын

😂😂😂

@michaelsteelepix 4 жыл бұрын

Best/ clearest explanation on this topic I've seen.

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks!

@dansears9204 4 жыл бұрын

@@DirtLifestyle Me too !

@billcox3378 4 жыл бұрын

Agreed.

@billcox3378 4 жыл бұрын

Agreed.

@Micko7774 4 жыл бұрын

Agreed, To the point, technical and no BS. Thanks!!

@StormbornJKU 4 жыл бұрын

The only reason I went short arms is because I didn’t want to pay for the welding on the long arm brackets. I look back at it all the time wishing I just went long arms. I will in the future/on my next build

@michaelwilland7036 2 жыл бұрын

I have been running the 4.5 short arm kit in an Xj for over 10 years. I have found them super comfortable and reliable at about 1/2 the cost. These bolt-in and require no fab work. ALTHOUGH realizing what Nate stated about the short arm travel causing forward/upward movement and pullback/droop, I also installed the drop brackets from rockyroad. They are super strong and nearly flatten the arms. I've never had an issue with clearance or limitation on wheeling, for me with the 33" tire. The tire nearly covered the bracket so when the tire rolls off a rock it nearly clears the bracket. I am sure there is a small compromise, like in every mod. Any higher of a lift you will want long arms. Hope this helps.

@iamoutofideas13 4 жыл бұрын

My first thought upon seeing this video: "Hey, that's the bleepin' jeep guy". My second thought 30 seconds into this video: "this is an excellent video. More like this, please".

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks man! Will do 👍

@kcfreeman3021 3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, production is much more entertaining than bleepin jeep.

@davethrasher4124 26 күн бұрын

The amount of times I refer back to yours and Kelly's old videos for information when building my Jeep is wild to me. I absolutely LOVE the fabrication videos y'all have done, and refer newer wheelers to them before almost any others.

@destralop8981 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the info Nate, this helps tremendous on my understanding about the 2. Great video. Happy trails!

@chillis28 4 жыл бұрын

I’m a very non Mechanical, you explained that very well.

@stevejimenez2859 4 жыл бұрын

Awesome video Nate, the wheeling community needed this!

@stonewallcrippen2237 3 жыл бұрын

I'm absolutely ecstatic to come across your channel friend:) so refreshing to see truly unbiased, factually accurate comparisons on ANY topic on KZfaq! I'm glad you brought up the strength increase with a short arm suspension, I would add one more item to the "pros" list on the short arm side which I've not seen anyone mention and that is Unsprung Weight. The DOM tubing most use in a long arm setup probably weighs 3-4 times what a typical factory short arm setup. Just something else to consider on your respective build.

@mattgrecko2820 4 жыл бұрын

Great explanation of long arm vs short arm, definitely worth the watch.

@robertmahar3462 4 жыл бұрын

Very well done. I fell more educated and i understand the geometry of the suspension better now. Thank you

@cbmck79 4 жыл бұрын

Clear and concise explanation, best Ive seen. Keep up the good work, you're onto something.

@jimray1111 3 жыл бұрын

Dude! Your videos are spot on. I've watched quite a few and loved every one. 1980 j20 - bought 3 years ago. Going into the shop soon. You've given me so many great ideas.

@joesears773 4 жыл бұрын

Great info! Just installed a long arm kit on my wife's Jeep and it is amazing!!

@kyawsannoo9513 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for your kind explanation about long arm vs short arm.

@raybates3119 3 жыл бұрын

Love your channel. I have a TJ with a 4" Skyjacker lift on 33's and a LJU Rubicon with a 4" Skyjacker lift on 37's. I get so much information from your channel. Thank you!

@rclinchaib1853 3 жыл бұрын

I'm looking forward for long arms on my jk 07 2dr. great explanation and it makes lot of sense. .. thanks for sharing. Awesome!

@johnmcwade222 Жыл бұрын

Just found this video, fantastic video explaining the science behind it. Thank you sir.

@JustNobodyButME 4 жыл бұрын

I've always had trouble with long arms. My shirt sleeves were always too short.🤣 Just got my first jeep (a jku) and doing research for what I want to do with it. Thanks for the explanation. 👍

@davethewelder1 2 жыл бұрын

Xcellent video, your description was spot on.

@Turrnaroud 4 жыл бұрын

Love this video. got a 3 link in my jeep and will never go back to short arms. they take a little bit of getting used to driving with no sway bars but they don't fail to impress people. especially if they look under it and know what they're looking at

@bowl0noodles 2 жыл бұрын

Good explanation between shorts and longs. Great video.

@GdaySport 4 жыл бұрын

A lot of sense spoken in a short video. Thank you!

@JonnyBgooD007 2 жыл бұрын

Best explanation I ever heard regarding the long/short arm debacle.

@fwschnaar3179 4 жыл бұрын

Thumbs Up Nate… I’ve been debating the Drop Brackets for my 16 JK mostly a Daily Driver… Going to get some now 👍

@matthewlamb3207 Жыл бұрын

Perfect video to answer questions as I start my research into my lift kit dreams!

@mattbarrett41 4 жыл бұрын

An excellent explanation of the two platforms. Thank you. Very informative.

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Thank you!

@senditschutte1762 4 жыл бұрын

Dont have to worry about arm length when you're on leaf springs👍🏼

@stevej6824 4 жыл бұрын

sendit schutte not necessarily true. Look for and read my other comment about leaf springs. Spring arc is comparable to arm length. But kind of the opposite. The more arc to a leaf is like having shorter arms. The more you compress the spring the more horizontal axle movement you’ll get.

@senditschutte1762 4 жыл бұрын

@@stevej6824 yes but still my comment was about not having to worry about arm length because you don't have any... Which side of the spring your shackle is also plays a big role, front shackles shove the tire forward like a short arm while a rear shackle moves the tire rearward

@stevej6824 4 жыл бұрын

sendit schutte very true. Having front shackles is similar to having short arms.

@Bodeesafa 4 жыл бұрын

Leaf springs are for poor people 🐸 ☕️

@bradywilliams2666 4 жыл бұрын

@@Bodeesafa Keep It Simple Stupid

@bullrunoverland7022 Жыл бұрын

I watch this video often just to refresh and remind me it's all worth the time on all the fab work.

@davyleupz 4 жыл бұрын

Great info, the only thing I can add from experience is to get the flex from a LA you would need to do steering and track bar. I’m still short arm in my XJ and the stock track bar mount on the axle side is my limiting factor on down travel. Just my 2 cents. 🤷‍♂️

@mxk6104 2 жыл бұрын

the laser demo really helped me understand what's the difference is. good points about what the tradeoffs are. Thanks!

@erikp2510 3 жыл бұрын

Great video very informative and great visual explanation with the laser!

@1111Overland 4 жыл бұрын

Wow, really nicely done Nate. Great description, fantastic demonstration.

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks!

@gorillahd9247 4 жыл бұрын

Excellent video with lots of good info. Well done sir!

@zakikahl6904 4 жыл бұрын

Really appreciate a video like this, you make it so easy to understand stuff like this and it’s incredibly helpful. Love that channel

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks! Glad you enjoyed the video!

@gordowg1wg145 4 жыл бұрын

Some good comments there! ALL forces on the arms are along them, except in the rare cases where some other linkage is attached, as they are pin-lointed Example of the latter is rear arms with the suspension springs and/or dampers mounted part way along them. For the suspension chaps, you may like to compare this to 'jacking' in suspension geometry. There's another aspect of the ride quality you appear to have missed - as the tyre hits the bump, there is also a braking force applied through the longitudinal links and the arm angle and length will affect how the chassis reacts to it, in a similar way to how a larger diameter tyre rides over irregularities better. You are close to it with the large rock - the rear axle is pushint he chassis forward and the angle of the arms will affect how that force is passed to the front axle.

@toomanyprojectstx 4 жыл бұрын

Phenomenal explanation on this subject. THANK YOU NATE!! I Love your videos and they explain so much! im so glad i subscribed to this channel.

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks for watching!

@tonyreese9292 Жыл бұрын

Nate I love your videos I'm kind of new to the four wheeling scene about 4 years I got an 84 Dodge ramcharger my dream truck and I've learned a lot from you watching you and how you wheel and your our column educational videos explaining how things work and why you did what you did keep it coming it's good stuff

@DataRew 3 жыл бұрын

I am your stated target audience and I really appreciate what you have to say here, and the fact that you back it up with hard numbers and a discussion of geometry, instead of hyperbole and "I THINK." This has just significantly raised my standards on what I'm going to put in to replace the 'Meh' 4" lift that is on my JK (From when I bought it. It didn't even have a lifted front driveshaft installed, which I did this past weekend.) I will be looking for videos by you on your lift kits!

@butchpalmer1860 2 жыл бұрын

I was on the fence about a LA kit until I saw this video. Just finished purchasing and installing a Metal Cloak LA kit. Definitely a difference and I should have done it a long time ago. Great information and great videos, keep up the good work.

@sandralutz-rodriguez2864 2 жыл бұрын

always super helpful how you explain stuff Nate!

@jbproduction323 4 жыл бұрын

Your videos are always very informative. I have the ability to make long arm kit for my wj but lack the knowledge of the geometry side of things but your videos are helping to change that. Thank's

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Glad to hear it! Get creative man! If you use the basic principles from my TJ streach series your going to love the handling characteristics. Good luck brother 🤘

@beepeesoup Ай бұрын

Dude, what a great review. Already bought my long arm and am now super happy I did.

@janpur1417 4 жыл бұрын

Very well explained! If one is changing the vehicle suspension he should know about physics dealing with FORCE, PIVOT and LOAD. I saw a FJ cruiser with front extended travel suspension with an adapter on outer tie-rod getting bent due to lack of knowledge about physics.

@JeepJeep234 4 жыл бұрын

I still run short arms on my JK, but I have Rancho front correction brackets and the metalcloak DB3 rear drop brackets. My control arms sit almost flat with a 4 inch lift.

@caseyherbert6487 2 жыл бұрын

Wow fantastic explanation, best one I’ve found thank you

@awhoot1 4 жыл бұрын

Dude that’s the best description of the geometry behind Jeep coil lifts I’ve ever seen 👍🏻👍🏻

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks brother 👊

@timryan8174 4 жыл бұрын

Well said Nate! Very well spoken & I like that you talk in a way that everybody can understand. 👍🏾

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Thank you! Glad you liked it!

@goodluckcult3157 4 жыл бұрын

Great video Nate! I dig the white board. It would be been cool to see some side by side real world comparison... say send the short arm jeep up an obstacle and then the long arm and show the real physical difference... but I digress. Good job mang!

@NathanKKennedy 4 жыл бұрын

I rarely comment on videos... This was the most enlightening video I've ever seen on this channel. Thank you so much

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Thank you for watching! Glad you enjoyed it 👍

@BEEFnuggs 4 жыл бұрын

Well done Nate. It's evident a lot of thought and prep goes in to your vids.

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Thank you!

@ryanworkpettey9881 2 жыл бұрын

Great video, nice looking Bilstein's too!

@underthelibertytree712 4 жыл бұрын

Best visual/description I've ever seen on this topic. You deserve way more subscribers.

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Thank you! I hope my little channel continues to grow 🤘

@BecksArmory 4 жыл бұрын

This is a great video! I totally agree with all your major points. Very well put. This is very valuable for the Jeep community.

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Thank you!

@paulroe4646 4 жыл бұрын

Love you videos brotha!!!!! Full of knowledge and detailed explanation. Much appreciated 🤘🤘🤘🤘

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks buddy 👊

@billylee2312 2 жыл бұрын

Excellent video!! Very well explained! I prefer short arm for mud and long arm for everyday use trail riding and rock crawling.

@jaybowles8221 4 жыл бұрын

Fantastic job on the video. Information is to the point and well explained.

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Thank you!

@ameyers67 4 жыл бұрын

Nate, I'm loving the content you make. Keep it up!

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Thank you!

@speeddmin 4 жыл бұрын

You did a great job explaining this in PB&J terms about anyone should be able to understand.

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks!

@zmotorsports62 4 жыл бұрын

Great explanation. I've been a fan of long arms for many years and have been criticized for it but have been very pleased with the performance, especially on my JKUR. My ride quality is FANTASTIC because my control arms are nearly parallel with the ground and thus allowing the springs to absorb the movement rather than transferring it into the control arms and chassis. One thing you didn't mention that I feel is important is that with long arms the actual bushings will have less twisting for the same amount of vertical travel compared to a short arm with translates to less binding of the bushings as well as longer life of the bushings. The only negative I've had with mine is on a few obstacles the mounting points on the frame have been catch points and when trying to get up and over them the tires will unload and therefore lose traction. It hasn't been a deal breaker but I drive accordingly minimize this scenario. Overall great video and explanation. Thanks. Mike

@rayantar3181 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks for taking the time to produce this! First time viewer...subscribed!

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Awesome! Thanks for watching and welcome aboard!

@Tombstone6709 4 жыл бұрын

Always giving great advice, glad your channel is a thing man, keep up the awesome content!!!

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Thank you!

@jdsilvaca 4 жыл бұрын

Great video. I went from a short arm, 4.5 inch lift to a TNT long arm 5.5 inch lift on my 97 XJ. NIGHT and DAY difference.

@jeremy8715 4 жыл бұрын

I’m going with RC long arm + Johnny joints. Should be a decent setup. I may consider RC Vertex shocks if they fit TJs.

@Georgia4Low 4 жыл бұрын

great video and clear details, thank you. I have a better understanding of the long arms now.

@romanjeeper_official 4 жыл бұрын

Great video. Im new to the jeep community and trying to do as much research as i can before i upgrade my JL.

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Thank you! Glad you found my Channel 👍

@davesbrewing 4 жыл бұрын

Great job explaining simple trigonometry, with out using any math. This is why you have one of the best off-road channels. Thank you.

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks man! Big compliment 🤘

@575conbon 4 жыл бұрын

It's reassuring to see someone that wheels as hard as you do running a body lift. I run a 1" on my daily drive sierra 1500 and a 1" on my suzuki samurai, I like the added fender clearance you get with minimal increase of COG. Added bonus was the clearance made it easier to drop the transmission in my truck to rebuild it, and when swapping an auto trans into my samurai it gave me more room so I had to "massage" the tunnel less.

@duneattack 4 жыл бұрын

Excellent vid, Nate. Keep up the good work

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks!

@casey197930 3 жыл бұрын

Dude this was exactly what I needed to hear ty. I don't want to try long arms on my 2djl but drop brackets seem to fit my preference better than short arms with a better ride and mechanical advantage.

@craftsmancollaborative 4 жыл бұрын

Very informative! Thanks for putting this one together 🔧

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks! Happy to help 👍

@Jackmerius_Tacktheretrix 4 жыл бұрын

This is why I love the suspension on my 03 Land Rover discovery. Long arm suspension and the arms are level. Never understood why jeep keeps using those short arms. Dont get me wrong I like jeeps too, but Land Rover definitely has the edge as far as suspension.

@mikehoffman3690 4 жыл бұрын

Best explanation I have seen on this topic. Thanks.

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

No prob!

@clarkdrago 4 жыл бұрын

Great explanation between the two,

@salami99 3 жыл бұрын

I learned a metric ton from you. Thanks alot.

@anthonycoffey816 4 жыл бұрын

Great video & explanations, I always figured long arms would help scrape over obsticals & keep things off your driveshafts

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks! They definitely do that as well. 👍

@leoameoso820 4 жыл бұрын

Very true and a very good explanation Nate. Good video!

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Thank you!

@ryano8613 4 жыл бұрын

Same length as drive shaft, less walk, less camber/pinion change through travel. Try pushing a wheel barrow over a bump at a higher angle. Done. Awesome vid.

@juanf4739 4 жыл бұрын

Great info ,thank you ! 👍👍👍👍👍

@richarddannibale7131 Ай бұрын

Like the kaiser j10. Owned 2 Cherokee wide tracks and currently own a project 46 cj2a and a 07 2 door jk

@3doutdoors313 4 жыл бұрын

Great videos! I’m hoping for a highlight video of the road to Sema 2019 and maybe some video of Sema itself. Keep up the good work, thanks.

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Thank you!

@martywilkinson6722 3 жыл бұрын

Outstanding video!

@maggiedonovan 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the info. Gave me some great insight

@05glisedan 4 жыл бұрын

Recently installed Cavfab Alpha 4 link. (Currently only have 3 links installed) Much nicer ride vs Rusty's adjustable short arm. Still need to take it out, give it a good test. Working out some bugs.... Thanks for posting....

@oldfordcarsandtrucks 4 жыл бұрын

man, you just do a great job splainin this stuff !please keep it up. tanks

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks for watching!

@idahoxj 4 жыл бұрын

Knowledge bombs dropped. Great explanation of the basics!

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks man! 🤯😂

@TheBibleExplorer 3 жыл бұрын

I have the 2 link long arms on my XJ and it's a night and day difference from the short arms. Smooth as silk on the trails & with all my spinal surgeries, the smoother the better, making it where I'm able to now get back out there. Great info and video brother 👍

@2S1L3NT 3 жыл бұрын

Currently having lower back herniated disc issues I fully appreciate this comment 💪

@Buoyant_Thoughts 3 жыл бұрын

What a great informative video. Thanks man!

@CasperRc81 4 жыл бұрын

If somebody could view the jeep at a sideways fashion looking at the b pillar and you were driving it that way as if it was independent suspension like on a razor then you would understand that your control arm like on IFS will have more travel up and down safely with the driveshaft or a CV shaft as wide travel independent suspension has then if you were to take independent suspension and have a short arm that your ride quality will be bumpier and more jolting left to right and lessen the straight smooth path now turn that thought forward like he’s saying and your bump transfer is more focused towards the outside of the tire away from you, like on a long arm IFS baja kit. Some will understand what I’m saying. Your videos are bad ass man!

@LordsycoOG 3 жыл бұрын

Incredible video, definitely learned something new in this video!

@darkstreakaia5267 4 жыл бұрын

Great information. Your tj is my favorite across the channels. Probably because mine looks similar just not built as well.

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks man! I appreciate it 👊

@seancaron3323 3 ай бұрын

Suspension geometry is my favorite topic in the world. The physics don’t lie! Nothing to even argue about 😂

@rockcrusher4636 3 жыл бұрын

Great videos and info, dude you don't always have to be correct about everything, you just have to try, you doing great, thank you.

@rexfuji 4 жыл бұрын

Excellent video. It's a modern take on the old reasoning of putting a reverse shackle kit on a leaf sprung rig in regards to the axle arcing forward under compression on the short arm kit.

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Absolutely! You definitely get it! 👍

@comingtofull-ageinchrist6736 2 жыл бұрын

smart review, Nate!

@bradythomas1997 4 жыл бұрын

By far the best channel on KZfaq! And way to represent us PNW folks 🤙

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Thank you!

@USfoolsgold 4 жыл бұрын

Got some learn on. Thanks.

@tweakergarage 4 жыл бұрын

Great videos, glad I found your channel. I think we read the same comments from the same JF guys that claim the argument is long settled on LA v. SA. I just roll my eyes. Every one who gets in my LJ from JK to TJ owners are all mystified how great it rides. I do have some money in the shocks, and it flat works, crawling the rocks or bombing through the desert. I'd NEVER go back to short or midarms.