A video analysing Doom's pseudo-random number generator and its usage.
Пікірлер: 1 900
@Somersalsa4 жыл бұрын
"I want to hurt doomguy" "Okay roll a D256"
@Templarfreak3 жыл бұрын
"excuse me, a _WHAT?!"_
@NovasNewGroove3 жыл бұрын
D∞
@megamaster16103 жыл бұрын
“I rolled a nat 167”
@somegenericscpnu-7soldier2703 жыл бұрын
@@megamaster1610 You deal that much damage. However, his armor saves him, absorbing half damage. doomguy, what do you do?
@TinyDeskEngineer3 жыл бұрын
@@somegenericscpnu-7soldier270 "kill"
@alicetretyakova39714 жыл бұрын
Just to inform you. Our university course of modelling lacks some real-life examples. I suggested to use this video as the example of usage of a table-based RNG, and professor agreed. Be proud of your work
@decino4 жыл бұрын
Whew, that's awesome to hear!
@Jeremy_Watson4 жыл бұрын
@@cormishii1542 yea it's pretty awesome
@MrSpinachguy4 жыл бұрын
This comment has 666 upvotes. Quick, no one upvote it!
@King_Firebrand4 жыл бұрын
@@MrSpinachguy I just wanted to upvote it, noticed the 666, and quickly punched my finger away from the thumbs up.
@MrSpinachguy4 жыл бұрын
@@King_Firebrand There are 667 upvotes now. Someone probably did that on purpose smh
@ORLY9115 жыл бұрын
So there really is a "Stormtrooper" mode and a "Jackal Sniper" mode for these guys lol
@johncolasont61955 жыл бұрын
I still hear the Beam rifle sound effect in my nightmares
@mr.nickname91725 жыл бұрын
Texan Don *shivers in I need a weapon*
@buckshot50965 жыл бұрын
@@mr.nickname9172 "right this way"
@ikagura4 жыл бұрын
A halo and Star wars reference?!
@aaronhenderson6704 жыл бұрын
You never hear the shot. It's just last checkpoint
@soursugar48673 жыл бұрын
Imagine being a zombie man and accidentally killing doom guy due to the rng saying that you’re suddenly an elite sniper instead of a blind old man with a nerf gun
@Haha-bl3xj3 жыл бұрын
“aw hell yeah!”
@TinyDeskEngineer3 жыл бұрын
@Hudson Kylo oh boy it's the virus spambot and his little buddy again Oh my god the Flixzone spambot actually left
@shaunpaulcroft2 жыл бұрын
By that logic, elite sniper with a nerf gun must also be a possible outcome
@truefailure63592 жыл бұрын
@@shaunpaulcroft I think that’s when the A.I. might hit you if you’re either not moving fast enough or they calculate where you’re heading and lead their shot
@shaunpaulcroft2 жыл бұрын
@@truefailure6359 slower movement probably allows them to lead easier too. Headshot from 500 yards while doing an SR50 over a gap, yet still only do 3 points of damage. Give that guy a medal, then fire his ass
@dval44414 жыл бұрын
"Look at the code you nerd." You got a keeper there...
@audiosurfarchive4 жыл бұрын
Deciyes is a lady slayer.
@mortrixs19364 жыл бұрын
what do you mean Peter is not decino's wife?
@raulsalcedo83324 жыл бұрын
That voice personally scared the crap out of me. Perfect timing; I was expecting something _particularly_ horrifying, nevertheless I was not disappointed. Great job to whoever that was. 👌
@sgtmajorkiwi3 жыл бұрын
@@audiosurfarchive ah, yes, deci _no_ is overrated.
@audiosurfarchive3 жыл бұрын
@@sgtmajorkiwi If decino exclusively made education content: He'd be _deciknow_
@HazmanFTW5 жыл бұрын
>Regular Imp >Big Imp >Flying Imp >Cyber Imp Love it!
@CarbonRollerCaco5 жыл бұрын
Cacos ain't no Imps. Plus, he forgot Skeleton Imp, Fatso Imp and Spider Imp.
@nuclearshorts12434 жыл бұрын
@@CarbonRollerCaco doom 2016 has cyborg fatso imp
@Scazoid3 жыл бұрын
Icon of Simp
@crystalqueen97113 жыл бұрын
I'm guessing the Revenant is a Spoopy Imp
@3dsoup1473 жыл бұрын
Caco Cocos Cocas
@serpuffmcpass58594 жыл бұрын
"what happens to the icon of sin now?" me: he wouldn't happen to get stronger the longer he's on earth, would he?
@jesuscrist35123 жыл бұрын
The longer the cereal in the milk the soggyir it will become
@burgerking52562 жыл бұрын
@@jesuscrist3512 wise words jesus
@TinyDeskEngineer2 жыл бұрын
@@jesuscrist3512 the longer milk remains in the bowl of cereal, the stronger the Icon of Sin becomes? What about the demons that use water as a replacement to milk?
@clockworkpotato9892 Жыл бұрын
@@TinyDeskEngineer they empower it faster
@MDLuffy1234YT Жыл бұрын
@@clockworkpotato9892 they empower it *instantly*
@evanpu19935 жыл бұрын
that's the genius of old RNG systems. without a good way to actually do it, they rely on the randomness of the player's interaction itself and re-purposed that randomness for its own
@KuraIthys4 жыл бұрын
All games are 100% deterministic. (unless there's an oddball I don't know about) Computers are incapable of producing true random numbers. The only thing that varies between games is how the Pseudorandom number generator works, how large of a pool of numbers it has, and how well it's set up to truly match the expected outcome of actual randomness. That, and how seed values are chosen dictates how random a game appears to be... But it's ALWAYS deterministic. Whether it seems to be anything else says more about how they initialise things. A common strategy on more modern games is to get your PRNG seed values from the windows system clock. Since time never has the same value twice, the initial starting point is always different, so things aren't repeatable unless you keep track of what the seed was when you started... There really isn't any such thing as true randomness in games though...
@btf_flotsam4783 жыл бұрын
@Shallex Wait til this guy hears about dwangoAC.
@QuotePilgrim2 жыл бұрын
@@KuraIthys Computers are not incapable of producing true random numbers, it's just generally more useful to use pseudorandom number generators. You can easily get true randomness by measuring atmospheric noise or fluctuations in temperature or some other physical phenomenon.
@QuotePilgrim2 жыл бұрын
@@MrZoolook Agreed. I didn't say the computer "creates" the numbers, I said it "produces" the numbers, as in it takes the information gathered from the external environment and turns that into a sequence of true random numbers. That said, there are electronic components that are capable of creating true randomness which some computers have, in which case the numbers are generated entirely by the computer, with no external influence.
@JNJNRobin1337 Жыл бұрын
what about 'entropy' in some systems each random thing can affect it
@plashe90415 жыл бұрын
Doom is best gambling game
@bonciutalentadv75995 жыл бұрын
Ecs deeee
@sonoda9445 жыл бұрын
everybody knows that doom is casino simulator
@m_tpa5 жыл бұрын
@@sonoda944 i didnt. but i always wondered about a few things in the game o.O
@user-uo8ny1kj4c5 жыл бұрын
@@A_Stranger2256 modding
@StefanDeleanu5 жыл бұрын
Because you can predict the winning answer.
@TheBigH5 жыл бұрын
I had no idea I wanted this kind of Doom content until I got it.
@missingindy4 жыл бұрын
TheBigH same
@SpielkindFR4 жыл бұрын
Imagine the face the id team had made if in 1993 someone had told them that people would make videos like this about their game in 2020.
@petofiarkwright32364 жыл бұрын
s a m e
@axethannanth4 жыл бұрын
e
@sgtmajorkiwi3 жыл бұрын
@@axethannanth r/decreasingly_verbose or "_verbosen't_"
@Lovuschka4 жыл бұрын
That guard at the beginning of Doom 2 really hates the other guard, shooting him in the back each time.
@vaiyt4 жыл бұрын
"i know the doom slayer is right there but fuck this guy" *bang*
@user-se5qr8zr8l4 жыл бұрын
Imagine how those 2 guys are bored of their miserable existance. They've been standing on these stairs for decades, achivieving nothing. They never ever killed a doomguy. And they die miserably every time, humiliated by a chainsaw. Not surprisingly they also hate each other, all stories told, all jokes remembered and painfully echoing in their brains. Each of them two wants to subdue the other one to dominate at least in this small room. But they can't move until alerted! This game isn't player's Hell - it's those 2 guys hell!!!
@stephenmandelbaum20273 жыл бұрын
@@user-se5qr8zr8l LoL that fan fiction we didn't know we needed :)
@Hero_of_Legend3 жыл бұрын
Hey, when you sleep with a man's wife, make sure you don't give him a convenient excuse...
@oliverhilton60865 жыл бұрын
_No Doomguys were hurt during the making of this video_
@fuzzydunlop17534 жыл бұрын
Idk man, some of that stuff looked pretty painful..
@jesuscrist35123 жыл бұрын
I smell some bullcrap
@Hero_of_Legend3 жыл бұрын
They did, however, die mercilessly. But they felt nothing.
@hershloodu89253 жыл бұрын
Now the demons on the other hand.
@terrytrollface5 жыл бұрын
I don't think I'd feel comfortable playing cards with the arch-vile unless I was on the other side of that table.
@demon95545 жыл бұрын
and with a BFG under the box
@cookieninja9004 жыл бұрын
I think you'd have plenty of time to move to the other side. But then you have to worry about the imp.
@demon95544 жыл бұрын
OMG 4 LIKES OWO I AM NOW UTUBR AND I GET MONETISSSSSSS!
@itzyobruhman82064 жыл бұрын
@@demon9554 OMG Ow0 U R YuToobir
@missingindy4 жыл бұрын
demon I’m proud of u!
@bloodrunsclear5 жыл бұрын
It's amazing how innovative this game really was, and you pointed out how a lot of those innovations are so behind the scenes you were never supposed to notice them at all!
@RFC35145 жыл бұрын
Using look-up tables as a fast replacement for complex calculations isn't particularly innovative.
@bloodrunsclear5 жыл бұрын
@@RFC3514 Simulating three dimensions using two dimensions is
@bloodrunsclear5 жыл бұрын
@Lassi Kinnunen Fair enough :) I didn't know about it personally so maybe I was projecting. I thought it was cool
@RFC35145 жыл бұрын
@bloodrunsclear - Wolfenstein 3D did it before Doom, and Ultima Underworld did it before Wolfenstein (and was, in some ways, more advanced even than Doom 2 - but ran at lower frame rates). Id software created highly optimised algorithms, but did not invent the concept of texture-mapped "2.5D" games.
@Atlas_Redux5 жыл бұрын
@@bloodrunsclear It's not simulated. It is 3D. It's a myth that the game is 2D. Projectiles fly entirely in a 3D pattern when enemies/yourself is at a different level, showing the game clearly has height information. And you know, there are PLATFORMS in the game, windows etc. Stop saying the game isn't 3D just because the map editor behaves like 2D. Goddamit, so tired of this stupid myth.
@Sahuagin5 жыл бұрын
I never realized that enemy damage AND your own damage was that random. I knew it felt like sometimes a projectile would hit harder than usual, or less hard than usual, but I subconsciously assumed it had something to do with how directly it hit you or something.
@tech6hutch4 жыл бұрын
That's probably intentional. It's an efficient way to simulate that while not really simulating it at all, just in the mind of the player.
@cybermark47324 жыл бұрын
Same!
@michaelmartin90224 жыл бұрын
I remember them saying that in Doom 3 they had per-pixel hit detection instead of hit boxes that surrounded otherwide spindly arms / torsos. They thought they needed to tweak enemy health as they all seemed to suddenly be bullet sponges... actually, the testers were just missing.
@user-se5qr8zr8l4 жыл бұрын
The most embarrasing is the RANGE of those numbers! I never realized a Baron could punch for 8 or 16 points... Or a Cyberdemon 20 points. I always thought there is some minimal damage plus a small random variation. And it turned out to be a direct product of a small "base" and rnd(8), much like dice roll in D&D.
@Camelotsmoon4 жыл бұрын
Everything as old as Doom used basic RNG tables, some just hide it better than others. It wasn't until the past decade/decade in a half, that RNG has been minimized as much as possible. I mean look at the difference between Morrowind and Oblivion.
@darrellgardner45614 жыл бұрын
"Leaky Radiation Suit" Wait what? I have never noticed that happen before. Ive been playing doom for close to 20 years.
@AnnieC.19934 жыл бұрын
I had it happen to me on mount erebus while playing the ultimate doom on steam. It was vanilla (only an emulator) so yeah it happens
@dftfire4 жыл бұрын
Wonder if this doesn't occur in the console versions? I grew up on the PS1 versions and can't recall lava or acid ever randomly causing damage while in a radiation suit...
@olexayko24994 жыл бұрын
I think, it was just fixed at modern doom ports
@AnnieC.19934 жыл бұрын
@@olexayko2499 it's not a glitch
@olexayko24994 жыл бұрын
Removed*)
@PhantomLink164 жыл бұрын
14:08 Somebody show this to Joel.
@SollowP4 жыл бұрын
I can already hear his Swedish screams.
@Green241523 жыл бұрын
i shall do the thing
@Mate_Antal_Zoltan3 жыл бұрын
100 points off!
@tedwilliams94243 жыл бұрын
Archville only Icon of Sin is truly the stuff of nightmares.
@Volcano4981 Жыл бұрын
Arch-Vile-only Icon of Sin is so cursed it's unreal
@lankymaccrazyhair26411 ай бұрын
Unless you are doing for map 30 pacifist, then it's amazing.
@BlueSmash_4042 жыл бұрын
3:54 "The closer the target,the bigger the chance it will perform a missile atack" -Dr. Decino Hayden
@HappyBeezerStudios2 ай бұрын
So glory kills in classic Doom are just a challenge for the enemy to missile both of you. But also the best way to get maximum BFG damage.
@PaulJohnsonM5 жыл бұрын
One of the reasons they did it this way, wasn't just to "prevent network desync," but to reduce the amount of network traffic to run while keeping sync. Instead of sending a vector which had been randomized on one machine over the network, only the random offset needed to be sent to be calculated on each machine independently.
@dsandoval93965 жыл бұрын
Ah, I know you're trolling because that didn't make any sense. JK. I know you're not trolling... but it still didn't make any sense to me.
@j.hawkins87792 жыл бұрын
@@dsandoval9396 instead of constantly updating the computer about which values to use, it just needs to send which offset (how deep it is in the list) instead
@karlmehltretter2677 Жыл бұрын
Not even the index needs to be sent over network. Because all players need to join at beginning of game, each machine knows the current index.
@turbovirgin54534 жыл бұрын
I can imagine the thumbnail goes like: Imp: How the *HELL* did you won 10 times in a row?! You gotta be cheating! Doomguy: Mpph.
@AriSketoboy4 жыл бұрын
Imp: Go fish Arch Vile: RHHHHUUUUUAAAAEEEEEEEEIIIIIIIIII Doom Guy: Mmph! Mmph!
@dsp43925 жыл бұрын
Love this series. Having worked as a programmer in a few game studios, I can say that things have changed a lot since then! Doom had to run on very limited hardware, so nearly everything was part of the code and compiled in the executable. Today, anyone who hardcodes values like this would be scheduled to have a serious meeting with the project lead.
@HarryKoakuma3 жыл бұрын
Also funny to note with the RNG table all set to the same value is that Doomguy's face constantly stares in the same direction (except when a non-RNG face would play, like firing a weapon continuously).
@Sarum9nich5 жыл бұрын
So imps basically roll d8 for damage.
@Spectrik3 жыл бұрын
Ironic considering the concept of Doom was based on a dnd campaign where demons invaded
@AverageSynth3 жыл бұрын
@@Spectrik it was also going to be a game based on alien
@haydnwhitechurch48093 жыл бұрын
Reroll your stats
@Spectrik3 жыл бұрын
Haydn Whitechurch funnily enough I recently started a paladin (on baldurs gate) and spent 20 minutes rolling and got 94 total
@haydnwhitechurch48093 жыл бұрын
@@Spectrik actually that was a binding of isaac reference
@extraSPARErib4 жыл бұрын
On the surface this seems like a simple game. When you get down into it though a lot of this is rather ingenious. Especially the stuck attempts and the use of randomized angles when firing at an invisible Doom Guy.
@witeshade4 жыл бұрын
I think it often turns out that simple is actually exceedingly complicated. It's relatively easy to shovel a ton of random crap into something to make it seem expansive, but when you have such a focused, narrow goal, it turns out that you have to think very, very carefully about every little thing to make it seem just right.
@flex96632 жыл бұрын
and the bigger surprise is the code is so goddamn easy to understand even for a beginner programmer like me ?!?!?!?!?! when my code reaches enough lines that it can't be considered a script it turns into spaghetti that even i don't understand.
@HappyBeezerStudios2 жыл бұрын
Shows the power of Carmack's big brain
@dwaynegreene1524 жыл бұрын
Imp: "I died! Quick give me a number to see which way i fall" this is so interesting. I started playing Doom again bc of your vids. It just popped up in my recommended vids and ive watched quite a few of yours and subbed.
@user-pc5sc7zi9j4 жыл бұрын
Imagine releasing a game today where an attack could do 6 or 60 DMG based on RNG.
@L10kwnsns Жыл бұрын
That's how csgo feels sometimes...
@Goodbutevilgenius Жыл бұрын
RPGs still exist to this very day.
@lankymaccrazyhair2648 ай бұрын
@@Goodbutevilgenius But as a general rule, modern games don't have this crazy level of damage varience. I love me some good ol classic Doom, but having attacks do anywhere from 10 to 80 to me based on RNG is something I'm glad modern games don't do.
@Goodbutevilgenius8 ай бұрын
@@lankymaccrazyhair264 have you not played the incredibly recent Baldur's Gate 3? The randomness there is insane. You can very much have 10-80 spreads there, preceeded by also using RNG for determining if the attack will even hit.
@lankymaccrazyhair2648 ай бұрын
@@Goodbutevilgenius i have not played Balders gate. Any of them. How much health do you have in that game? If it's in any way comparable to Doom, that's nuts, I'm shocked a big name game, or any modern game, has that level of variance, even if it's a DnD tie in. If you have 1000 health, that big of a difference would be a lot less noticable.
@JakZie5 жыл бұрын
I love all your videos but those informative ones are the closest to my heart.
@chainsawpl61895 жыл бұрын
That Tyrian pfp tho
@victorkelp51545 жыл бұрын
@@chainsawpl6189 noice
@index97495 жыл бұрын
So many years playing and this game still surprises me, I never realized.
@BepBepStev5 жыл бұрын
I never knew about the leaky rad suit until now. When I was like 13, I was doing a no death UV run and failed due to that. I always blamed it on a bug. Wow.
@SoldierOfFate4 жыл бұрын
I've played Doom for god knows how many hours and I've never had the leaky radiation suit feature happen to me for some odd reason.
@KC_Garcia3 жыл бұрын
@@SoldierOfFate lucky you
@creeperhunterD2 жыл бұрын
@@SoldierOfFate I get it often on high-damage floors, like lava. Otherwise I pretty much never get it
@iconbluesn5648 Жыл бұрын
@@creeperhunterD it only happens on high-damaging floors, thats why
@Rathori5 жыл бұрын
So it's a pseudo-random number pseudo-generator. Well, at lest the "number" part is real.
@MrAndris9995 жыл бұрын
No, it seemed integer to me ;) (uint8)
@Rathori5 жыл бұрын
@@MrAndris999 lies, lies everywhere! xD
@agiar20004 жыл бұрын
Fun fact: Back in the days before computers were everywhere, people still needed random numbers, such as for taking "fair" statistical sampling, so they published HUGE books that were just full of a large quantity of numbers in an apparently random order. That's pretty much what that static list of "random" numbers in Doom reminds me of. :)
@terrytrollface5 жыл бұрын
I've played doom for years, and I did not know about the environment suit sometimes getting damage leaked through. So much in one video, I learned a lot. Makes me wonder if someone ever made a mod that removed rng to make doom "fair and balanced." Either way, quality content as always.
@AleK04515 жыл бұрын
one time during the ASS speedmapping session we themed the levels entirely on the leaky radsuit and made maps with lots of damaging floors you need radsuits to go over and had the leaking in mind during the design
@terrytrollface5 жыл бұрын
@@AleK0451 I wonder if Carmack and Romero did that on purpose or not. What I mean is if they thought, 'people are gonna make a shit ton of doom levels, better make a penalty if there's a lot of toxic waste suits and hazardous environments. Because it's certainly never leaked damage for me in any of the original levels.
@lagz895 жыл бұрын
BigMacDavis made me aware that this could happen
@artcox29915 жыл бұрын
Weird things happen if you remove the RNG: jmtd.net/log/deterministic_doom/
@arcturux44465 жыл бұрын
@@terrytrollface I've never got damage through the suit either, and I've been playing doom for like 20 years. Maybe the information in the video is true, but I don't believe the implementation during the game works that way. There is no way I didn't get damage through suit with my luck over the 20 years.
@QuasarEE4 жыл бұрын
Giving monsters a random last seen value prevents all of them from chasing the same player in multiplayer games. Otherwise, all the monsters would target player 1 until attacked by other players.
@Phobos_Anomaly4 жыл бұрын
2:25 "The second index is only used for a specific player's perspective, so things like screen melt and sandwiches" *Yes I know he said "sound pitches", when I first heard this I was like, "what?"
@SaviourV3 жыл бұрын
Can't...unhear...😆
@HappyBeezerStudios2 ай бұрын
Doom, now with RSG: Random Sandwich Generator
@anonanon30665 жыл бұрын
Boss: Implement a random number generator. Me: uint Random() { return 4; //Random number. Chosen by a diceroll. }
@KettLovahr4 жыл бұрын
Guaranteed to be random.
@russianbotfarm30364 жыл бұрын
I see what you did there - an XKCD reference.
@emailhook5344 жыл бұрын
This is almost verbatim the code that allowed people to bypass the ps3 security engine, Sony genuinely coded an RNG that always returned 7
@Rahajeb5 жыл бұрын
*How dare you pump out good and informative content!* Lovin your videos :)
@clintgriego27305 жыл бұрын
Aaaaaaaayyyyyyy
@colors62295 жыл бұрын
that explosion tube at the end made me laugh. nice vid!
@entengummitiger15765 жыл бұрын
Wow, I've been playing Doom for thousands of hours and never realised damage is random
@EnjoyCocaColaLight5 жыл бұрын
same lmao
@ResidentOfficial4 жыл бұрын
WTF you must have, sometimes a direct shotgun hit from up close doesnt kill an Imp, while other times far range snipe from shottie kills him right away.
@WiseEndro3334 жыл бұрын
You never noticed how the Revenant first hits for a measly 15 damage and then immediately hits you for 70?
@jorgecorea75284 жыл бұрын
13:54 that was an impressive shot.
@masterneme5 жыл бұрын
Great video, I'm actually building a "Doom Clone" using Unreal Engine and to mimic some behaviors I read some of the documentation available that explains how the Doom Engine works. This makes me appreciate Doom even more because it's full of ingenuity and clever tricks behind the scenes, and you explained it very well. Fortunately with today's computers you can just use real random generation. I'll save this video for further watching because RNG is the spice that makes Doom gameplay so awesome and there are some other uses that I haven't explore yet that will add extra coolness to my work.
@four-en-tee5 жыл бұрын
For real authenticity in your doom clone, you'd think that you'd want to keep Doom's version of RNG generation.
@JardsonJean5 жыл бұрын
Just as a heads up, there isn't such a thing as "real random generation" in computing. The RNG that was used on Doom is kind of primitive but it isn't very different from what many games to this day still use. To emulate "real" random generation you need some very complex maths and processes that don't realistically serve to games.
@UberMun5 жыл бұрын
@@JardsonJean And its not just modern computers that do this, Super Mario World on the SNES used a simple pRNG algorithm to create its random numbers. RetroGameMechanicsExplained has a great video on it.
@gracefool5 жыл бұрын
@@JardsonJean both you and TOZE are only half right. Modern random number god uses a) good sources of data that are effectively impossible to predict, especially when combined, eg. hard drive read head movements and clock drift, and b) somewhat performance-intensive algorithms to create a uniform distribution of numbers from those bits. Encryption relies on this number generation being unpredictable.
@masterneme5 жыл бұрын
@@four-en-tee The idea is to make an homage, something that looks and feels similar to old-school but with modern tech. Using modern number generators is just far simpler because they're already there ready to use. And yes it's true, computers don't know random, what I mean by "real" is letting the built-in algorithm come up with a number from its calculations instead of from a list manually picked up beforehand. And for demos, Unreal Engine has a system that makes use of the networking one to record the replicated variables and functions. Which means more extra time available for something else. It also allows to view demos that were recorded with older versions without any compatibility issues.
@lafeeshmeister4 жыл бұрын
7:30 I'd always wondered why the Revenant's missiles were sometimes homing and other times unguided. Now I know! Thanks!
@mikesully1105 жыл бұрын
I always thought the variance (deviation) was far too high in doom. It just didn't seem right that a revenant can do 80 damage sometimes and 10 the next. Other games like system shock had a 10% variance in damage (plus an additional chance to proc a critical) same with your own weapon damage. Your shotgun can do 5, 10 or 15 damage per pellet - sometimes your shotgun rounds are only a third as strong as other ones? I can see why ID took the mechanic out of their later games
@WTFBOOMDOOM4 жыл бұрын
I couldn't agree more.
@lankymaccrazyhair26411 ай бұрын
I agree, but i also understand how it happened. Doom's engine is, as far as I'm aware, the second ever of it's kind, and the first one to stand the tests of time. (Sorry Wolfenstein 3D) of course it's going to be flawed, it's the first *good* fps. Nobody does it completely right their first time, so the fact that doom does as much right as it does it's a testiment to doom's great design. ... But yeah taking 10-80 damage from an attack is silly.
@TheDarkkilla124 жыл бұрын
Oh god, the ultimate troll had John decided to put it in nightmare difficulty, Icon of Sin but it spawns Arch Villes.
@zakazany19454 жыл бұрын
The game became predictable: you will get your ass burn to a crisp everytime
@NecrosAcolyte5 жыл бұрын
I'm trying to learn how to code, and this was... shockingly helpful. Thank you!
@Annatar30195 жыл бұрын
I know what you are talking about. It's one thing to know how to do something in code, it's another thing to apply your knowledge to the real world.
@ZethHolyblade4 жыл бұрын
5:05 so that's why I could hear wonderful zombiemen choirs after using the supershotty back in 95-96. Some would yell "mwuhhnnng" Others "mwuh-uhnnn-uhnng"
@BigMacDavis4 жыл бұрын
I still come to this video every now and again. A wonderful video.
@ClarkWahlberg-bo3oh3 ай бұрын
Your Doom playthroughs are wonderful. 👍
@manowartank87845 жыл бұрын
I always knew that guys from id software are nerds, but to add rng code to flashing lights on buildings in map screen, that is ultra nerds.
@RFC35145 жыл бұрын
It's not RNG (the values aren't being generated). Since they are using a table, it's as fast to do it this way as it would to have a hard-coded "animation" of the light flickering. This way they save some memory (and improve the performance of hardware caching) by using the same table for (almost) everything.
@LtSprinkulz5 жыл бұрын
Anyone else realise the projectiles are D&D spells?
@ZeroTheorie5 жыл бұрын
Ah yes, "Homing Rocket", my favorite D&D spell
@eduardoavila6465 жыл бұрын
Yeah shotgun slugs, very effective on undead
@12manny345 жыл бұрын
The team at Id played a lot of D&D during Doom's development so I'm not surprised.
@eduardoavila6465 жыл бұрын
@@12manny34 Yeah, there is probably some inspiration of D&D and also heavy metal bands in dooms development
@ChainsawGutsFuck5 жыл бұрын
The Cacodemon is literally the cropped head of an "Astral Dreadnought", featured on the cover of the D&D book "Manual of the Planes". pbs.twimg.com/media/BjSRcqxCYAEX50M.jpg
@steweddafodil91575 жыл бұрын
After 16 years i finally understand how the bfg works XD
@user-se5qr8zr8l4 жыл бұрын
They must have been drunk, wnen they came up with this idea. How on Earth one could guess there are INVISIBLE TRACES, radiating from the gun and leaving no marks on walls! But wait, he didn't mention the WEIRD part of it: those "tracer" pellets ignore the location of the main blob impact and the gun pointing direction. Instead they are projected at the same azimuth the player WAS LOOKING at the moment of initial fire! E.g. if you shoot it north, the tracers will then emit north direction too (with spread), regardless of looking direction and impact coordinates. This produces unexpected results: - you can fire the BFG blob, then hop into a teleport to another location; the blob hits a wall in the initial room, doing absolutely no damage, but in the new room a spray of traces emanates from your new location and kills all monsters; basically, one can "pre-fire" the BFG before engaging in combat - the most of the damage comes from tracers; - you fire the blob to north direction, then stand behind a cover (south to it) - only 1 monster will be potentially hit (by the blob), all secondary invisible pellets will shoot the wall in front of you; - you are in the middle of a large room, filled with monsters; you shoot the blob at nearest pillar, hoping to produce splash damage quickly around your location; nobody gets hurt at all, ammo wasted; - shoot a blob at monster crowd, then turn your look away 180; when you turn back, everyone is dead - the invisible tracers magically emitted from your ass killed everyone.
@user-se5qr8zr8l4 жыл бұрын
Wait, decino has it covered actually: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/g9lzpK-Cr5epf5c.html Highly recommended.
@JeffreyPiatt4 жыл бұрын
@@user-se5qr8zr8l it's actually still using code from the aborted Alpha version where it would fire red and green plasma balls in a shotgun like blast. It was dropped because it made a 486/DX slow to a crawl rendering it and it looked like Christmas . So the gun post press demo became the iconic green Ball of deadly plasma that kills everything not you.
@user-se5qr8zr8l4 жыл бұрын
@@JeffreyPiatt Yeah, I've heard about Christmas looks recently on @decino's)) Still there are many things that don't make much sense: - why wait for the ball explosion? Or at least have a fixed, short, unconditional delay before the secondary emission; - why ignore both actual ball direction and player view vectors? This fixed azimuth approach is counter intuitive and makes the gun "stupid" to the log level - despite commonly labeled as "smart" weapon; - why not make wall-hit effect for tracers? The engine can obviously handle that much sparks when hitting enemies; the whole thing wouldn't be so obscure! Most people have been playing it of decades - without realizing it's a shotgun, not AoE launcher; - isn't there a friendly-fire feature in the engine? The imps can't hurt each other afaik. The BFG mechanics would be much faster with an AoE blast (checking only distance to target instead of tracers individual collisions), with the single check for friendly wielder (once per blast!). In the end the ball is a burden. I'm curious.
@user-se5qr8zr8l4 жыл бұрын
Better yet, the gun could have the dual-trigger behavior: - on the first press it behaves as is (delay, charge, launch the ball); - show some fancy animation on the gun - e.g. bulbs flashing at increasing rate (it's simply a sprite switch, doesn't require additional time to render); this would create a cue - it's not done yet, brace for the REAL part! - after a delay (or when the ball explodes) the gun is fully charged, bulbs going crazy; - on the second press it releases the pellets spray with a violent knockback; the user appreciates its full potential and instanly learns how to wield it properly - without waiting for 25 years to be explained on YT. It would make the BFG much more dangerous, possibly breaking balance. But it could be managed (nerf for multipleer, or make the second phase very brief, so the players couldn't carry the full charge long, etc.)
@Self-replicating_whatnot4 жыл бұрын
"Berserk damage is inapplicable to chaisaw" - sad Khornate noizes.
@rowanbadhwar8775 жыл бұрын
This video makes me appreciate DOOM even more! All those little things the devs put in that make it seem like a living world and add a bit of unpredictability are so impressive, and add so much to the experience but I never really thought about them.
@CappnRob5 жыл бұрын
Found your channel on a random youtube recommendation and have already watched this and the sprites video, good content! I knew about Doom's RNG but I had no idea damage values could be THAT varied, no wonder Revenants always piss me off lol
@du4lstrik34 жыл бұрын
::Hasn't played Doom in years, opens the video:: 0:01 - Sigh... yeah, those damned revenants. We can all relate to that daily struggle.
@HappyBeezerStudios2 ай бұрын
can only recommend The Revenant Problem.
@bigsauce111611 ай бұрын
It's simply bewildering on how a video explaining a relatively obscure subject can ascertain such a huge amount of views. It's something to be proud of. It speaks volumes on how entertaining your videos actually are. Best wishes man.
@FartSmucker4 жыл бұрын
11:00 WHAT?! in all the years since doom has came out and i still play it i both didn't know that and have never experienced it. Crazy.
@UltraEpicLeader100205 жыл бұрын
I like the image in the video showing the Card Game
@mechanismeight95655 жыл бұрын
in DOOM"s early betas, there was a wall texture that was actually replaced with that texture of a game of cards. No idea why it was there, but i think it was removed by the time Beta 0.5 was made.
@cdru5154 жыл бұрын
@@mechanismeight9565 The idea was that all the player characters were playing cards when hell broke out
@mechanismeight95654 жыл бұрын
@@cdru515 "Go fish! HA! I win again! Hey... what's that noise? It sounds like a demon or something." And that's how it started.
@SoldierOfFate4 жыл бұрын
More fun facts: the characters playing cards were the crew from Rise of the Triad. They were intended to be selectable characters for Doom (each with their own unique quirks, advantages, and drawbacks) before the idea was scrapped.
@andersdenkend5 жыл бұрын
Okay, this was really great. Very well put together, nice narration and awesome video examples. Definitely beats reading the wiki! Great work, please more of this.
@antipsychotic4512 жыл бұрын
Your dedication to documenting the DOOM games is really commendable. I love this approach to deconstructing the code, sprites, sounds, and other technical aspects that make up DOOM. Great stuff!
@meatballphilosopher57344 жыл бұрын
The pitch-shifting for BFG Edition was taken up to 11, making it sound ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTING
@shanekrauchi23574 жыл бұрын
14:02: Oh god... Oh NO!
@mulliganwizard90685 жыл бұрын
Another great video!! I love these vids where dive into the inner workings of a game :) Whenever I see a vid with something over that yellow background i know it's gonna be a good day!
@coldest19985 жыл бұрын
This channel is so underrated omg, the amounts of information in one video. And not only that, the way in which you deliver it along with the graphic content. Hellish material.
@dinitroacetylen5 жыл бұрын
2:37 -- took me a while to realise how this code snippet works. And when I did, I also got this creeping sensation that I will never be as good at programming as the Geek Overlord John.
@HueyTheDoctor5 жыл бұрын
This is an excellent analysis. I'm 32, so I was playing Doom when the initial shareware version was released and I've never had any idea there was this much randomness involved in the gameplay until you broke it all down like this. Ridiculously informative video, man - keep up the great work and I'll keep watching and liking.
@Smarkenham164 жыл бұрын
6:27 oldschool runescape :D
@cs512tr Жыл бұрын
i love how a game in the early 90s still has a huge buzz and appreciation
@TivonSanders3 жыл бұрын
10:24 That tracer impact was perfectly in synch with the rimshot. LOL
@ivothemoth23464 жыл бұрын
I'm waiting for when "Doom A1 on Ultra Nightmare mode" is a thing. It would probably be named "A1 Ultra Nightmare Speedrun" or "A1 UNS" for short.
@c0ntra6055 жыл бұрын
the absolute worst feeling in any game is losing not to your own lack of skill, but just by some random bullshit. Which is why I love games like doom and sekiro who practically don’t have any rng at all
@sketchpad71164 жыл бұрын
Heck, I have played Doom maybe twice, yet these are some of my favorite videos. Also the thumbnails are brilliant.
@phoneixsfall3444 жыл бұрын
I’m subscribing to this channel because the attention to detail and paying attention to the viewers!! Thank you. I love old school doom and keep up the videos! I love them thank you soooo much!!!
@dadude0014 жыл бұрын
Brutal Doom has a feature that randomizes sound pitches, but it is such a big difference that one sound is of a medium-low pitch and the next one is really high-pitched
@Arsaja5 жыл бұрын
Wait. What was the explanation for the exit sound NOT being randomized?
@decino5 жыл бұрын
Doom runs an internal timer and depending on which digit it ends decides the exit sound.
@RpTheHotrod5 жыл бұрын
@@decino Isn't that technically still being "random"? (Nothing is truly random, so when we say random, it means perceived to be random). For example, the first shots were always doing the exact same thing since it pulls from a table, though it "seems" random in normal gameplay. Determining what the exit sound plays is pretty much the same thing, except instead of a table of a variety of set numbers, it's a table of consecutive numbers that are constantly "running".
@decino5 жыл бұрын
Difficult to tell. If you time the exit well using e.g. a stopwatch you will always play the same exit sound. However, same could be said about your player input during gameplay.
@Optimus61285 жыл бұрын
@@RpTheHotrod True, and it's even more random and unpredictable in a sense (because it's really based on the time the player decided to quit) compared to getting the next value in a static table.
@spartanwar11855 жыл бұрын
Infact it could be even more random if the p_random table was also increasing by 1 value every tick So that time would also play a role
@Shanks6124 жыл бұрын
Since playing the old Doom games again Ive watched alot of your vids as I found em by chance. You have given me a new love for these truely timeless games.
@shahmcdonald5 жыл бұрын
I like your vids its like going to listen to a professor. At the doom uniniversity
@joonasfi5 жыл бұрын
Professor doom. Or professor of doom.. I like the sound of that
@malbeth87004 жыл бұрын
He evens talks like a real professor, in a very slow and boring monotone...
@MarkRidlen4 жыл бұрын
DOOMU(.WAD)
@jackdavies19605 жыл бұрын
This video is so, so, _so_ clear and concise, I want to thank you even just for that alone. But furthermore, I had no idea how much RNG actually went into DOOM, and it just shows how necessary RNG is in the mechanics that you would never typically associate with RNG. Sure, I've thought about RNG going a _little_ further than just drop tables, like the random damage of guns, but never to this extent -- and DOOM is obviously upheld as one of the greatest games ever, with a still enticing play-ability even to those who have never touched it before. Thanks so much for this video, it has really inspired me to start thinking in new ways about game design!
@Superlagg4 жыл бұрын
11:21 Mock2 really knew how to make the most perfectly designed *horrible* *horrible* maps.
@E1itetube4 жыл бұрын
This video, single handedly, got me watching all your videos. Excellent! I would love more detail like this.
@MunExe2 ай бұрын
Hey Decino, just wanted to say thanks for all the work you do. My dad has been a fan of the DOOM series since it first came out and he owns a physical copy of each game plus this awesome trilogy edition. He's how I got into video games. The OG DOOM was the first game I ever played myself. Used to play Icon of Sin for hours, noclipping out of the wall to let as many spawn as possible then rush through with rockets. It's genuinely so cool to learn these things about my favorite retro game series from someone who cares so much about said series. I hope to make my own maps someday. Keep it up, man! You're doing great! :] 🧡
@PhilShary5 жыл бұрын
Love your deep analysis of Doom! Subscribed.
@Player1-up5 жыл бұрын
That bit about how the RNG affects the demos is actually quite ingenious.
@nemesiser894 жыл бұрын
Dude this is an insanely amazing video not just for learning how doom's RNG works but just a bit of game development. How things are connected on the programming side and how to understand a bit of the actions being called
@rexlr6954 жыл бұрын
Man, I love your videos. You review a lot of stuff I knew about the Doom engine, and then fill me in with stuff I actually didn't know.
@safreq4534 жыл бұрын
Someone NEEDS to make a mod that does this 14:14 to the screen melt cuz that just looks so funny! Edit: thx for the heart!
@UltimateCarl5 жыл бұрын
Wow, I always knew Doom had randomized hit chances and damage but I never quite realized just how big the variance actually is. Some of those damage ranges are crazy.
@DeusExAurum5 жыл бұрын
Easily one of the most interesting videos on Doom I've ever come across! Great job!
@pokedexter33374 жыл бұрын
I love these videos so much! I just recently got back into Doom on the BFG collection and these videos make my decision to do so that much more rewarding
@GraveUypo5 жыл бұрын
awesome video. love learning about how the classics work, and there ain't no classic classic'er than doom
@PlayerZeroStart4 жыл бұрын
I play D&D too much. The first thing I thought of when you talked about projectiles damage is that they roll a D8.
@artebirklaus4 жыл бұрын
Apparently, the Id Software team played tons of D&D, and the entire demons and hell aspect of Doom was inspired by it. I'm pretty sure that the damage variance was derived from the same source.
@ClawestBoss4 жыл бұрын
Love these mechanics / code deep dives explaining parts of one of my favorite games. And as always informative & entertaining.
@JizzburnGigaqueer5 жыл бұрын
Incredible video, I love how many small details there are that I've absolutely never noticed before now.
@Kitties_are_pretty4 жыл бұрын
This is why KZfaq is great. Something like this never would have made it to television but it's absolutely fantastic and we'd never get to see it without a platform like this.
@mistermoo76024 жыл бұрын
Very true.
@omencito4 жыл бұрын
9:32 that's the scariest thing i've ever seen
@victormituri5 жыл бұрын
I am glad to see info videos about the original Dooms in 2019!!Keep up the great work!
@winlover374 жыл бұрын
I did not realize how in depth this game was with damage models and spawns. Best vid I've seen in a while, subscribed!
@matt41935 жыл бұрын
Today, on "things I sure did not know but i'm kinda thankful that *decino* spend time explaining in a well thought and entertaining way"
@rompevuevitos2225 жыл бұрын
This is the smartest gameplay variation i've seen. You can't bang your head doing the same stuff over and over until you get lucky rolls, but you won't be randomly punished for using a good strat either, it's rng, but your actions actually are worth a damn :D It also assures all values have proper variations, so you don't get 5 missiles with 160 damage in a row, nor with 20
@dmas77494 жыл бұрын
i'd prefer to just do 100 with all my missiles
@GronTheMighty5 жыл бұрын
Excellent video, thanks for taking the time to make it! I'll probably never directly use the specific information in it, but i absorbed it passively and enjoyed it thoroughly, and who knows maybe i've learned something beyond the straight facts you've laid out that i can apply elsewhere even if i'm not acutely aware of it :]
@tbone94745 жыл бұрын
Loving these doom related info vids. Grew up with doom 1 and 2, still play them on occasion but I never knew all these little subtleties. Amazing, subbed