Lightbulb moment! I have been struggling with shame because I feel I've failed my expectations of not becoming a true IE person after a year here. Most of the time right now, I'm a person "just not dieting". I often feel the sadness and loss from meals ending or specific foods being done and personalize it as a failure in my character as a human. Stef, you reading that this is biological and we're built that way. We naturally lean towards pleasure and away from pain, and that it's a perfectly human thing to do, made me feel so much better. Also hearing that sitting with discomfort, knowing it will pass without physical intervention (eating or other distractions) felt freeing. It may be my journey to be in a just not dieting phase for some time so I can speak more lovingly and patiently to myself about it. This is a fascinating topic and I'm grateful you did it when I'm where I am in my journey. Thank you!

I loved "Dopamine Nation". It's a great message for today's world however I think you made excellent points about the psychology involved in our behavior.

Ive learned that once your in preoccupied phase of the addiction cycle your already rewarding the addiction pathway with dopamine...the planning or the getting is hard to not act

One of the ways eating disorders are on a level with other addictions is the "looking forward to" or anticipatory preparation for the pleasurable activity. I sometimes wonder why different people are attracted to different substances or addictive activities, ie gambling or sex. A friend of mine who only eats when she is hungry, said to me, "Clare, I like food but I'm not enthralled with food like you are." Food for thought. Love this discussion, thanks.

I like the "seesaw" visualization...pleasure "connected" to an oncoming feeling of pain. That helps to anticipate and accept.

When you were talking about the positive feelings from planning and searching out the food…it made me think of our primal self’s..hunter/gatherer…when our ancestors had to out and gather food they would have needed some positive reinforcement to to those tasks in terrible conditions..hot, cold, rain, snow etc. so it makes sense to me that we do get somewhat of a “dopamine hit” from doing pre planning, shopping for the items etc.

I think the point that there are several issues going on, psychological , physiological and emotional and working out what is at play and therefore what strategies to apply in the moment, is so crucial and a massive light bulb moment … I get the nudging thing and how it is not enough to apply just a physiological approach or look at this from one perspective, excellent discussion !

(Desclaimer: I don't know anything about the physiology of addiction. It's just a hunch) I would even argue that you can group food with all other addictions. In my eyes the psychological aspect is the most important in all addictions but other substances cause harder brain damage so the psychological aspect is not enough and there's a need for chemical intervention.

I like to finish up a container, like it feels like I’ve cleaned it up that way. I feel really satisfied with a clean plate too. So, if I take things in smaller packages, I enjoy it more. But only if I tell myself I can have as many packages as I want until I’m truly satisfied. But that’s why the big bin doesn’t appeal to me.

I super relate to the going to grocery store woman....

Please review Glen Livingston's book "Defeat your cravings." Pretty Pretty please with sugar on top.

Magnificent!

I totally understand what @iamstefaniemichele says about needing to snack to get into work mode. I have hdad and I bought some chewy jewlwery. Because I can't chew gum in the office without being loud. But i have some kind of jaw inbalance so my therapist asked not to chew those things nor gum. I also understand the fact that snacking while doing something else you just never feel full. So my question is, is it because of a psychological reaction to the stress of being afraid of not being to complete the task correctly or quickly enough? So is it only about a problem with self value or self-confidence? Because i think as an adhd person, I feel it has also tondo with the need to do something with your body to help you get into the "zone". So something like mechanical?

I don't like judgemental comments about eating issues, inciting shame.

I think the idea that the psychology is separate from the physiology of dopamine is completely false. The physiology of dopamine and other neurotransmitters are what is driving the psychology of things like "autonomy" and increasing cravings for sugary foods or whatever it is someone is giving up. I think it is kind of silly to say that a food is problematic but it would be impossible to stop eating those foods. Hundreds of millions of people never eat specific foods because of religious reasons or allergies. But it would impossible to give up ice cream and cake or something? It doesn't make any sense. The way that I see it is certain foods increase my craving to eat more of them. That craving is actually, when looking at it, more unpleasant than the food is pleasant tasting. And eating it just increases craving for it in the long run. Better for me to just not eat those foods. It just isn't worth it. Most of the pleasure of these things is the relief of the craving. Seeing that is eye opening. The craving itself is the suffering, and just deciding I can't give something up because the craving is too much is kind of silly. It isn't about morality either, it is about looking at cause and effect and seeing the actual effects of eating these foods (some small mouth pleasure that is very short lived, and probably not feeling great physically, and increased craving in the future). Not worth it.