Top 5 Principles to Winning Terraforming Mars by Stronghold Games

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Күн бұрын

Why do some players win regularly and others don't? This is a challenging game with so many permutations no one is likely to repeat the same game, yet, with different corporations, and different card combinations, certain players just win more often. Here are my top 5 strategies that are the tools I believe to make you reliably have a chance at winning rather than just playing and hoping.
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Пікірлер: 179

@AndrewRichesson 6 жыл бұрын

1.5x speed

@ElfHostage 5 жыл бұрын

Andrew Richesson i normally do that anyway

@averagerider92 5 жыл бұрын

Hah... interesting, it works!

@moonboi69420 5 жыл бұрын

2x for me

@likebot. 5 жыл бұрын

Godspeed

@kornelmezei2872 5 жыл бұрын

good idea, thanks!

@Lemonhead209 4 жыл бұрын

Each Greenery is worth effectively 3 points, if the oxygen scale has not ended 1. 1 point when When it goes down initially. 2. 1 point at the end of the game, during final scoring. 3. 1 point if Adjacenct to your Cities.

@lukehanson_ 5 жыл бұрын

A favorite strategy of mine is award stealing, if you think you can get an award based on cards in your hand, hold off on playing them and then strike at the end and take first place on it. Banker can be stolen with insulation, Zeppelin's, cards that grant credit production per tag, and sometimes immigration shuttles for example. I've done it to great effect about 5 times over about 30 games.

@brianpotter2812 Жыл бұрын

The problem with this is if you wait until the end to get your credit production, you miss out on gaining the benefits for several generations beforehand. Why not fund the aware on gen 1, then play your production cards to support it. You don't need to hide your intentions once you play some of your cards and fund the award, but if you wait someone else can fund an award for cheaper. 8 credits for 2 points still isn't a bad ration in the grand scheme of things, so "stealing" them is just lucky that someone didn't take advantage of your sandbagging.

@stevengeis6295 2 жыл бұрын

I have a buddy that wins EVERY GAME by a huge margin and he gets the Planner milestone every single time. By the end game, he literally has a deck of cards in his hand and those last few turns he'll play so many cards after the rest of us have passed that we just take bathroom breaks, drink and snack breaks and he'll still be playing cards after everyone has gone and come back. Craziest thing I've seen in this game.

@properplay Жыл бұрын

He still needs to play some engine building cards early game, right? Would be interested in seeing a replay of one of your games to understand how that is possible.

@trixn4285 Жыл бұрын

If he really wins EVERY game (or at least almost every game as I guess you are exaggerating) with that strategy it's 100% because you let him do that. Do you play more 3 player or 4 player games? How many rounds do your games usually last?

@tailhair87 4 жыл бұрын

Hey, I know this is 2+ years old. Just bought the game and currently 0 - 4 against my mates. These have been super helpful! Cheers

@jeppekofoed4333 3 жыл бұрын

Stuart Prior goooooood job

@brianpotter2812 4 жыл бұрын

What I find interesting in my playgroup is that they invest in things that are "too expensive" or the ratio of cost/victory point is too high. Like you said, 23 credits for 2 victory points (possibly 3 if next to a city) is a great ratio. It's 11.5 per point, whereas 13 for 1 (asteroid) is higher. In the long run, those that "go green" will score more points, but they also risk allowing an opponent to plant a city next to their greenery tile for a point (although at a higher cost per point which isn't all that bad if you're winning the attrition/tempo battle). You have a finite amount of resources that you will play by the end of the game. The player who scores the most points per credit will win most of the time. With this in mind, United Nations Mars Initiative (UNMI) has THE BEST credit per point ratio at 3:1 (so long as you increase your TM rating each turn). I don't know why more people don't like that corp. Sure, Tharsis Republic is great for the economy side, but money only scores so many points. Being able to score points for cheaper will win the game in the end.

@Doc_Tar 5 жыл бұрын

I started playing the computer edition yesterday. The more I've played the more the wise your general strategies are in practice. It's nice to have what I've sensed about the game confirmed.

@septimustavi9352 4 жыл бұрын

Try doing the solo terramforming challenge...way easier on the computer than with the actual game.

@XecVid 4 жыл бұрын

Our favorite strategy was to learn the rules and play the first game with 10 hours. The rules and tutorials the game comes with, are not even closely enough. Game is epic anyway, now that we know what to do, somewhat.

@magne6049 3 жыл бұрын

2:39 For those who didn't get the Asteroid vs. Greenery comparison, due to some important left out explanation, here it is: Both Asteroid and Greenery increases terraform rating by 1 step which in itself gives 1 VP total, and 1 coin extra each generation for the rest of the game. But Greenery gives an additional 1 VP at the end of the game. Asteroid costs 13 coins and gives 1 VP. So it costs 13 coins per VP. But Greenery costs 23 coins and gives 2 VP. So it costs 23/2 = 11.5 coins per VP (the ratio he talks about). Which is better.

@GreyWizardInsights 3 жыл бұрын

Thank you!

@vladimirnikolic599 3 жыл бұрын

but only if you have that greenery next to the city

@magne6049 3 жыл бұрын

Vladimir Nikolic yes, that is an important bit we both forgot to mention!

@damianorotondo1385 2 жыл бұрын

@@vladimirnikolic599 No, no! Greenery is worth 1 VP over placement (because it increases the TR), and 1 VP at the end of the game. If you have your city nearby, it is worth even more.

@trixn4285 Жыл бұрын

Yep, Greenery is worth even more as you can get several different bonuses by placing it that e.g. allow you to place a greenery cheaper or even for free in the next rounds. Also if you place greenery you not only deny 1 VP from your opponent but also the bonuses. So greenery is vastly better and should always be preferred.

@christianneuendorf3205 4 жыл бұрын

I Love Jovian Tags. I usually get one or two of those cards which count them and then this is an amazing strategy!

@alexlaurin6753 6 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the video!

@steg457 6 жыл бұрын

lately i like to combine credicor or cinematics with the cards which gives you 3 M€ when you play an event or 3 M€ + 3 Heat when you play a space event. With the right event cards it gives you a very nice start boost. It is even better on the elisium game board to fast claim the legend + you can play low cost events which are normally never worth to play, but with this combo you can even earn money with them and destroy resources from other players and destroy their gameplan for the current round.

@jadam42 4 жыл бұрын

Daniel Stegmaier ha, I lost to a first time player the other day who happened to just fall into that exact strategy :)

@scottshepherd2238 5 жыл бұрын

Great video, high-level and clear.

@scottshepherd2238 5 жыл бұрын

"DORKside", just got it huehuehue

@GreyWizardInsights 5 жыл бұрын

Lol :)

@vincentshin2294 4 жыл бұрын

I absolutely love getting the discount cards. If I get earth catapult and one or two other discount cards I'm set for the game and can make a really efficient engine since all cards are 4-6 bucks cheaper.

@christiantrautman8150 3 жыл бұрын

I got earth catapult first turn and passed to afford it in gen 2. Everyone looked at me like I was stupid, I won by 30 points at the end. That 2 discount every turn allowed me to just afford stuff late game from saving so much me.

@louiswouters71 5 жыл бұрын

I won twice by going all in on Cities. It's a slow start but at the end I covered the board so much that every greenery placed by any player gave me 1 or 2 points. And I ended up with gold income of 70+ which I used to place greeneries

@GreyWizardInsights 5 жыл бұрын

I love that strategy!

@InstantLightning 4 жыл бұрын

A good counter that I just experienced unfortunately is that if you do that, it is extremely easy to lose track on actually terraforming. If the other players focus on terraforming mars as fast as possible and victory points, they win the game.

@brianpotter2812 Жыл бұрын

Credicor and Tharsis Republic love this strategy, and in fact it's a good idea when you're starting 10 cards aren't all that good (maybe like, 1-3 that you wan to keep). The standard projects are there for a reason!

@properplay Жыл бұрын

I don't think this will work if the other players are aware of what you're going for and rush to end the game fast. Would be curious to see it in action though.

@AlexVeach 6 жыл бұрын

Great!

@PrayersByOrthodoxSaints 6 жыл бұрын

Love this game, and nice slow voice

@GlobusTheGreat 4 жыл бұрын

Hey! Good tips, I usually win amongst my friends and most of the concepts I've intuited but this is such a clear explanation that it helps me crystallize why I actually take certain actions, and might help me explain to my friends what I'm doing that causes me to win so often. Though I have to ask, and currently I only have the base game, but is Thorgate really worse than Inventrix? I fully agree that Thorgate is weak, but I see Inventrix as being absolutely garbage. Maybe that's partially because I associate it with the planner milestone, which I agree should never be taken by someone seriously planning to win, but the requirement manipulation just feels so much more situational and less reliable or even powerful as the material resource / money boost that other factions get. If Inventrix is not as bad as I think, can someone explain a line of play that would be typical of a successful inventrix player?

@msheehandub 4 жыл бұрын

I have won with inventrix. Being able to build capitol, trees, birds, bushes at ± 2 is massive. You get an extra generation or two out of these cards. What helped most was getting the ± 2 effect card so I was ±4 for most of the game.

@r4bBits 3 жыл бұрын

Inventrix is about a slow game, where you can get VPs from your microbes and animals every turn (early because of your requirement manipulation). You probably need "Physics Complex" to win though, because Inventrix can be countered easily...

@mikaelamnitsbl5651 6 жыл бұрын

I have about 10 plays, and I really enjoyed the video. Will you elaborate on how to calculate efficiency (the tempo part)? I dont understand it. Asteroid 14 cost divided by 1 VP is 14 efficiency? Greenery is 23 cost divided by at least 2 VP is at max 11,5 VP? Will you do an example with eg space elevator?

@GreyWizardInsights 6 жыл бұрын

Gosh, Space elevator is what makes this a great strategy game and not tic tac toe. You can calculate how to win the perfect game with tic tac toe, but not chess, and not terraforming mars, because its so complex, but at least start the math! Ok, the efficiency is the amount of points per resource spent, so you spend 27 money to get 2 VP PLUS 1 titanium production + an ability to spend 1 steel to gain 5 money. So for that 27 money, you could have bought ALMOST 2VP (which is 2 money per turn) and possibly the side benefits of the temperature track depending on "when" you buy it, but we'll ignore that for the moment, this is just sure returns. So we can already see how they calculated the cost of the card, space elevator is "slightly" better even ignoring the action and titanium production. But they gave Space Elevator even More because unlike asteroid, you have to save more money to buy it at all. So they give you that titanium production. If you have a bunch of space cards, that titanium production is worth 3 money each turn, so really you're getting 3 money per turn "IF" you're able to find a use for it. The steel production likewise is worthless if you don't have steel production, but its a pretty good ability to translate steel into money if you do. So, if you don't get any space cards (the other players will starve you of space cards in the draft if they see you have a lot of titanium production), and don't have any steel production, this card costs 27 money for 2VP and no money, versus 28 money for 2 VP and 2 money Depending on your current scenario, 2 asteroids could be better, but a lot of players won't do that calculation and get slightly less (in terms of 2 money per turn) and end the game with a small pile of titanium.

@damianorotondo1385 2 жыл бұрын

@@GreyWizardInsights I guess that the cost of buying the card (3 money) should be kept into account when doing these calculations, shouldn't it?

@mennoantheunisse3933 Жыл бұрын

I am sort of newish to the game. Played it last year for the first time and loved it. Got myself a copy just a month ago and also the version on tablet. I manage to win about 40% of the time solo and % is rising. Generally it's all about what does it cost and what will it give. So agree with your points of calculating the cost vs points. Of course not everything gives you points, the discount cards can also be useful. But also feel that some corps are better (or atleast more stable) in giving a possible victory

@GreyWizardInsights Жыл бұрын

Some corps are definitely better more reliably, though which corps those are can change depending on skill level. Do you play with draft rules or random?

@mennoantheunisse3933 Жыл бұрын

With solo I play both draft and random. Random if I have the game on the table. Since that's quicker and easier to manage and draft through the app. Game with more players also draft.

@NayTheHorsee 4 жыл бұрын

Great video, I love this game but usually end with 70 to 80 vp so I lose most times hopefully I clinch a win soon

@NayTheHorsee 4 жыл бұрын

Update. Scored 125 in a 2 player game tongiht lost by 3 vp! Getting better!!!

@triplesixplaya3835 4 жыл бұрын

I scored 132 in my first match

@alexandrubragari1537 3 жыл бұрын

Scored 91 with torgate in first game (3players)

@lechatmourail5524 4 жыл бұрын

Hey, just to let you know that the "coupe de France terraforming mars" took place in Paris in October 2019, and now we have statistics about the game (without extensions) . Let me know if you want more informations. (helion is such a tricky corporation 😏)

@meeed54 4 жыл бұрын

More info please.

@malcolm-chrisbikoumou972 5 жыл бұрын

Great video. You didn't mention UMNI as one of the weakest corporations. Do you have any tips to win consistently with it?

@renefrank3030 5 жыл бұрын

I think with UMNI you should definitly force a fast paced game, try to terraform every round with blue projects that for example raise oxygen by using steel or place water tiles by using steel resources.

@tilco86 5 жыл бұрын

UNMI is in my opinion one of the stronger corps(talking about base game without expansions) If u get the right cards early on, that let you increase your TR every turn, then you snowball to a 50+ TR very easily. Heat production is your friend. Gives you very frequent TR increases. Don´t aim for plants. Also it might me needed no play standard ocean or asteroid early on. Just to make sure you get +1 TR every round (see it as +1mc for 3mc. very good bargain) Must keep cards: nitrite reducing bacteria Equatorial Magnetizer Space mirrors if you get the magnetizer. This combo is just insane (spend 10mc, get 2TR every round!)

@brianpotter2812 Жыл бұрын

UNMI is a STRONG corp in the fact that it doesn't need much to add to their strategy. They always want to Terraform at least once per generation, and paying 3 for another TR/point is one of the BEST ratios in the game! You're actually getting 1 of those 3 credits paid back to you next turn due to the base credit increase as well, so really it's more like 2 per point. The way to win with them is to try to close the game out quicker, so getting cards that pump up the global parameters by 2 or more are essential to their game. You can usually pay 13 for an asteroid (standard project) + their ability so you turn a 13/point into a 16/2 or 8/1 ratio (better than the OP's wishes of 10 per TR). Greenery tiles are also more appealing as they get you an initial TR (as long as oxygen isn't maxed out), which then triggers the option to use the UNMI ability, and end game you get another point. So your ration here is 23 + 3 (26 credits) /3 or 8.67 credits per point

@HerbJon 4 жыл бұрын

I will absolutely play combos sometimes just to get that kick out of it. 😄

@GreyWizardInsights 4 жыл бұрын

Absolutely! I've lost so many games because I became enamored with successfully completing a combo even at the expense of winning.

@HerbJon 4 жыл бұрын

@@GreyWizardInsights I just love this game so much! So proud to be Swedish! ;)

@polilla318 5 жыл бұрын

I like playing Tharsis, and I usually go for getting as much greenery as posible and then focusing on MegaCredit production right after, I haven't thought about my strategy much since I usually win anyway, it's probably because I only get to play with people that aren't invested in the game too much like my neighbor and brother… they keep forgetting the rules also.

@GreyWizardInsights 5 жыл бұрын

I think the game is fun even if you aren't trying to win, just playing and building things is enjoyable. A great game is a game where I am having fun fiddling with some mechanism even if someone else is fiddling with the game faster than I do. To be totally honest, I often lose because I become "determined" to do a combo at the expense of winning, something like getting predators + animals and feeding my own predators animals or whatever. Its fun. My players though often really hit the greenery players hard with anti-greenery cards which can discourage people from the easy points of greenery when they keep getting hit.

@polilla318 5 жыл бұрын

I agree, the game is really fun either way. I play tharsis because I love their logo and lore, plus they appear on the cover of the game, same reason why I play UNMI often, it's comfortable and I like the design and lore, and it's fun (at least for me). It's what I call the roleplay element. I've had many criticism because apparently UNMI is a really weak faction or something. It's an amazing game anyways, wish there were more expansions.

@ivasays6819 5 жыл бұрын

In my group, we boycott Tharsis and not build cities. So far, whoever plays with Tharsis wins, except once when Ecoline won. Having the advantage to place greenery quicker than the rest of the players, really fills up the map and takes away points from others. But if the player doesn’t have luck with the cards and barely increases plant production then Tharsis wins - at least in my group.

@brianpotter2812 Жыл бұрын

I think you have this backwards...you should land grab with cities first to add to your MC production early, and then drop greenery in between your cities for max value. (remember, you can +2 MC production and 6 credit refund for using the standard project if you don't have any cards in hand that allow you to place a city)

@TheCetarius 2 жыл бұрын

I got the planer often and won also often with it

@WitchDoctor87 4 жыл бұрын

I'm new and wonder what corporation tags do. Is that the only way to play certain cards with spending the tag type in that corporation card and matching to the card you want to play?

@leeprice133 4 жыл бұрын

Corporation tags count towards total tags in play for card requirements, milestones etc. For example, the Builder milestone requires you to have 8 building tags in play. If you were playing as Mining Guild, you're effectively getting two of those eight tags for free right out of the gate.

@ASkakunov 3 жыл бұрын

mine favourite is Energy!

@srentrangbk2024 4 жыл бұрын

Pretty good content, but with all due respect, I have never heard anyone who speaks this slowly. I will follow other peoples advice, and run it in 1.5 or 2.0 x speed. I didn't get answers to what I really want to know about the best strategies. Like is it "go for animals", "go for titanium", "focus on plants" (well that part I got some tips about)... But what is the overall strategi? I own the pc version so far, and in one of the games I ended up with more than 30 titanium that I couldn't use, since I didn't get enough cards I could pay with titanium. So should you only go for steel and titanium when you need it, or should you go for in the beginning of the game, although you don't know if you're gonna need it? Or is it all about plants? Which tiles on the map is best to cover up with greeneries? Those with cards, plants or ressources? So many questions I didn't get an answer to, on an overall level.

@GreyWizardInsights 4 жыл бұрын

That's fair regarding my speed, I'm struggling to balance the fact that I get so many compliments for my pace with the fact that even I prefer a faster pace when I'm absorbing content. If you listen to newer videos I think I've increased my pace, but definitely still not like a Defranco or something in terms of speed. As far as resource breakdowns, that sounds like a good idea for a video. When I play, I have a rough idea how many cards use a resource, and I try to use knowledge to drive whether I should go "all in" on a resource (which changes as I see cards come out). Question, do you play with expansions, and if so, which ones?

@srentrangbk2024 4 жыл бұрын

@@GreyWizardInsights Thanks for quick reply. I didn't mean to be rude regarding pace, just wanted to tell you my experience, since english is my second language, and even I thought it was a bit too slow. At first I skipped your video, looking for others because of the low pace, but realised this was probably the best video out there covering this topic (although I need to know more, like already mentioned). I get your point about pace though. So far I only play the standard game on pc, but with christmas coming up, I will be getting the board game version. So far I love the game, and I'm pretty sure I will get whatever expansion is out there. Just had a game as Ecoline, and everything worked out perfect for me. Spamming plant production and thus greeneries seems like an overall great strategy - or am I wrong? I know plant production is easily attacked, but then again - your opponent will also use his actions in doing so. Hope you'll make a video about ressource priority, and where to place cities/greenies/ocean-tiles and whatever strategies you can think of.

@nss5353 5 жыл бұрын

Could you actually do planner with the Beginner Corporation? You must start with 10 cards, so if you just buy up to six cards you can score planner generation 3 for 5.2 credits per point. You can't play cards, but you can buy special projects. If you drop cash on rushing cities, you could have mayor bought in generation 4 if you sell 4x cards (you've got 16 cards... 4 are gonna suck), and if you place cities adjacent to anyone trying to drop forests, getting 2 points per city isn't that hard, netting you points at 7.5 credits per point off mayor. You would expect some people to push hard for gardener when it becomes obvious that planner and mayor are being rushed. At the end of it, you are still left there with a hand of 12 cards minimum, so 23 income will go a fair distance.

@nss5353 5 жыл бұрын

I tried the planner + mayor rush with the beginner corp. It has the makings of a reasonably coherent strategy when you play it. Being forced to buy 6 cards out of 8 cards during the two research rounds makes it slightly less painful (and a lot of the card set appears to be decent when that 3 dollar buy cost is defrayed by points elsewhere). The mayor rush lets you do a decent job of zoning the board, and gives you a lot of control in how the 'city grid' gets laid out, and even when the oxygen points run out you still pretty much have 1 vp for 11.5 points plays all game long and it sets you up for landlord. Also, you've got trash cards in your hand... which has the side effect of giving you a ton of activation control so you can sit there selling patents one at a time to delay your activation so you can chain a sequence of board placements together. Especially if you will go first or second next turn and use the stalling to dump a ton of resources to build out a region without interruption. If you shuffled the beginner corp into the corp pile, it would honestly be as good or better than some other corps, especially if you looked at all 10 cards and there were a lot of generally useful but borderline for their base + buy cost cards.

@GreyWizardInsights 5 жыл бұрын

In our group, the beginner corps often win vs the specialized corps, but no one wants to play them after they've learned how because their goal isn't to win, its to have fun, which the beginner corp isn't (to any of us). I love that strategy of slowly selling projects to delay your actions, nice for anyone not just beginner! Thanks for sharing!

@superwafuh 5 жыл бұрын

I play every weekend with 2 friends and the way we play is kinda always the same: We all build engine. Big engine. And the one who build it the best win. That make our games last 3,5 - 5 hours and that's great ! At the end we are always a bit sad that the game is ending. Since a few day I started watching people play online and looking for strategies but what I realize is that we should all be a bit more aggressive on the terraformation and I could probably win more like that. I'm still wondering... maybe I won't even try to win faster because if I come up with this kind of strategie and I start winning a lot the others will adapt and our games will be shorter and less crazy 140 points 5 hours stuff that we all have so much fun even if we are behind. And the thing I'm sure is that as soon as we start playing faster, more terraforming heavy games, it'll be impossible to come back.

@GreyWizardInsights 5 жыл бұрын

That’s very true, once you start playing faster, it will be very difficult to slow down. Maybe you can play just a little faster to get the edge and win more often, without enough that it will change their play style 😅

@brianpotter2812 Жыл бұрын

Wow! I don't think I've ever had a game where someone got more than 100 points! We always finish the game within 3 hours 9and that's with people getting up constantly to get more beer, snacks, etc). We finish be generation 7-8 at the latest. I remember the phrase "always be Terraforming" as our philosophy is if you take it someone else can't!

@ps.sg.9935 3 жыл бұрын

Why not showing the strategies on the board?

@wolftreetruck4946 4 жыл бұрын

1.75x speed, still have 1/4 and 1/2 second pauses.

@badradish2116 3 жыл бұрын

people are so damn impatient. do you want him to just ramble on thoughtlessly?

@delirio1987 4 жыл бұрын

i disagree with avoiding saturn. i would rather avoid unmi as the only bonus it gives you forces you to increase your TR every turn or risk falling behind

@Nicolas-eo7lo 4 жыл бұрын

i think unmi is a very powerful corportation... you safe a bit of money each generation and before you pass you move that TR one up. this not only gives you points (like some corporations from expansions that can collect floaters or animals) but you also one more money per generation... also, you dont need to focus on a strategy from the get go but you can decide depending on your cards which strategy you want to pursue...

@user-od2sn5ur5g 4 жыл бұрын

i thought at the beginning that unmi would be so strong! but turns out its really not that great because increasing tr isnt always such an efficient thing to do, and in addition it doesnt give you anything substantial in terms of infrastructure for engine building. and when you dont have a strong engine its even harder to increase tr sometimes. however - if you play the two corporations variant for prelude (which i actually thought of by myself, and started playing - with the base+corporate era corporations - even before i started playing prelude), then it can form a great combination with some of the other corporations.

@Chiungalla79 6 жыл бұрын

In my humble opinion and experience, and these agrees with the video: if you can win while claiming the planner milestone, your opponents don't know what they are doing. And this is sad if they already played 100 or more games of TM. In this cases enjoy your win, or look for more competitive players if you want to enjoy a real challenge. There are very few cards which are worthwhile to take into your hand in the early turns even if you can't afford them until mid-game. If you get enough of those cards early on to win with a planner milestone you are a really lucky bastard and your win has little to do with strategy.

@esjhan 5 жыл бұрын

Chiungalla, that is not necessarily true. Planner milestone is my most frequent milestone and I win a high majority of my games. I played with a person who play-tested the game from Berlin and she plays it very frequently as well. She also thought the same about the planner milestone until I played her and she wasn't able to win a single game against me (and I got the planner milestone in each of the 4 games we played). For more credibility, I'm also rank #1 on the new Steam game of Terraforming Mars.

@Chiungalla79 5 жыл бұрын

@@esjhan My statement from above stays the same. No matter if she was playtester or how many games she played. If you win with planner 4 out of 4 she is not very good in Terraforming Mars. (And arguing that she 1.) is a great player and 2.) lost to you 4 of 4 is not a very humble approach.) And #1 on the online version does add a little credibility, but not enough to cast serious doubts on my opinion. The math does not add up. And no matter how many anecdotes you bring, this will not change. If you have 16 cards in your hand, you have 48 credits bound in cards alone. A player who is more selective in choosing his early game cards will be ahead 1-2 strong cards very quickly. Getting more resources and will benefit extremely in the long run. But I would agree that this kind of changed with the last two expansions. Now you can earn way more resources in the early, mid and late game. And this makes it a little more valid to invest in more cards in the long run, because otherwise, you will run out of cards very often. If you earn more than 100 money resources a turn, you are going to want all the cards you can get your hand on. If you are living in Berlin we could probably play it once (or twenty times) someday. I'm moving there in the near future.

@esjhan 5 жыл бұрын

@@Chiungalla79 I also play online (via Tabletop Simulator) with people who have anywhere from 100-250+ games under their belt and win those pretty frequently as well (with the planner milestone). Just because you haven't found the strategies on winning with it, doesn't mean other people can. Yes, most games that I do fund the Planner award, my starts are slow, but I'm also the only person scoring 20+ points in the final gen. With the prelude expansions, only make it even more worthwhile for me to fund planner. Not so much in just the regular base game. Why don't you download TTS so you can play with us sometime. ps- the reason I mentioned my friend from Berlin is because she was just like you as well. She was just shocked since she, like yourself, thought the planner milestone was terrible bc of all the notes you stated above. She said she funds planner very, very rarely and think's it is the worst milestone

@Chiungalla79 5 жыл бұрын

@@esjhan "With the prelude expansions, only make it even more worthwhile for me to fund planner. Not so much in just the regular base game." That's basically what I said. "I also play online (via Tabletop Simulator) with people who have anywhere from 100-250+ games under their belt and win those pretty frequently as well (with the planner milestone)." Experience does not make great players, so that's a fallacious argument. Fallacy from false authority. There are some rookie mistakes you don't do anymore if you have a little experience. But there are just hard limits to how good you will get by experience if you ignore math and theory completely. "Why don't you download TTS so you can play with us sometime." Because I have a strict "no online gaming" policy due to my experience with pre-WoW MMORPGs and online Bloodbowl.

@Chiungalla79 5 жыл бұрын

Just to add a quick thought: If you are winning more than 50%+ of your 4 player games, your opponents are not (as) strong (as you are). They are not even close. Otherwise, you would win 25% of your 4 player games. And even if you are just slightly ahead of the others, you are not going to win 50%+, since Terraforming Mars has a lot of chance factored in through the cards. If you win 4 of 4 you are a lot stronger than your opponent. So with the win-ratio, you are claiming it is obvious that you are playing opponents which are a lot below your level. They are NOT strong players. You just want to believe they are to bolster your achievement. If they would be strong, you would lose a lot. And since you are playing against weaker players you can pull of nearly every tactic. Been there, done that. I have opponents I play because I like them. I would win against them nearly all the time, no matter if I take Planner or not. And then there are challenging opponents (I most of the time also like). And most of the time no one takes planner, and going for planner would lose the game in this environment. So you are probably a fairly good player playing amateurs most of the time. So your experience is worthless if you want to get better and develop an optimal strategy. Since everything will work in that environment. This conclusion is even more obvious if you would look at the other thread, where you talked about environments without "hate-drafting". There are no matches without hate-drafting between strong players.

@Maskenken 4 жыл бұрын

These are not really strategies. These are overarching concepts or principles. It's pretty good for how vague it is though. The value/action guideline really tightened up my game.

@GreyWizardInsights 4 жыл бұрын

Absolutely, i named it strategies for seo purposes once upon a time, i wanted to express the idea that these 5 things will improve your game in a way that people would understand what the video was trying to do. As a programmer, I appreciate the correct naming of things though and I wish I had called it the 5 Principles of Terraforming Mars or something: I may rename this video and create a new 5 strategies video (We’ve been playing a ton of 4 player games since Turmoil came out and I realized my high scores were from certain specific things I was doing that I think I can share)

@Maskenken 4 жыл бұрын

@@GreyWizardInsights please do ;)

@veerchasm1 5 жыл бұрын

Play solo!

@bobdole8830 6 жыл бұрын

Very informative video, but it would be great if you had a script, those minor thinking breaks add up and kind of hurt the flow of the video. And the backround music is a bit distracting ;)

@GreyWizardInsights 6 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the feedback! My newer videos I use scripts because I thought the same thing.

@bobdole8830 6 жыл бұрын

Good to hear!

6 жыл бұрын

You have apparently not found the winning strategies around the Planner milestone :)

@GreyWizardInsights 6 жыл бұрын

That sounds wrong, but I want to hear how that works. :)

6 жыл бұрын

DorkSideGaming oh, it’s all about planning your cards. If you start off with 6-10 at least medium good cards. Don’t be afraid of later game cards in the start, they become your resource later on. Buy 8-10 cards at setup and snipe planner at start of 3rd generation, what you pay in the start for these cards, you don’t have to pay later. You start off a bit slow and then increase tempo more and more. You can often get a second milestone as well. It really works out great at most times. Make sure of the timing of your cards right :) Try it out! But you need to go all in with this one.

@GreyWizardInsights 6 жыл бұрын

How many generations do you normally play where this strategy works?

6 жыл бұрын

DorkSideGaming Just about all... seldom a game goes fewer than 7 for us.

@briangiese2628 6 жыл бұрын

That only works on 1 of the 3 maps, an only gets you 5 points. some games end by turn 8sh, so that can be a rough strat is other players are pushing for a fast game. Getting points on the bottom is key though, so going for those bonus points is key to doing well..

@marioladeialiberatodematos5241 5 жыл бұрын

Terraforming Mars or Scythe?

@GreyWizardInsights 5 жыл бұрын

Depends on the group, for us it’s terraforming Mars, but I think scythe is amazing

@jasonfedelem 5 жыл бұрын

I played scythe once and hated it because it felt very unbalanced

@indef2def 4 жыл бұрын

@@jasonfedelem Scythe with all good players can be easily balanced with a beginning auction, though.TM not nearly so, sinice a lot of randomness comes through late card draws.

@haukionkannel 4 жыл бұрын

Scythe is more balanced than Terraforming mars, but it does not make it better or worse game. These games Are not mean to be balanced. These Are opportunit games where you have to look what other player do and react accordingly and still play your own game based on your adwantages.

@argirypanagopoulos8928 4 жыл бұрын

If you want to win at this stupid game you have to get lucky and pick the cards you need 2-3 generations of pulling the wrong cards and you lose! Waste of time playing this press your luck game...

@GreyWizardInsights 4 жыл бұрын

I definitely feel levels of distraught when someone experiences a loss due to repeated bad luck. Heck, ever experienced a deck being reshuffled back into order? We have, randomness can really suckS having said that, the gameplay of terraforming mars is fun for my group even when they’re losing. We just love the engine components of the game

@jeffreyculbert728 4 жыл бұрын

So here I am, the number 2 ranked TM player in the world, bored, looking up random TM stuff on youtube when I come by this video for the first time. And wow, is almost everything stated in it incorrect. Scoring at a rate of 1 VP for 10 credits spent as a good rate? When I'm going to score at a rate of 1 VP per 3 or 4 credits spent? Hmm... Don't keep science tags in opening hands? Don't keep cards with parameter requirements more than a generation away? So, don't keep some of the most powerful cards in the game? Hmmmm...... Planner, the single most often bought milestone in high level competitive play is worthless? Hmmmmmm............ Claim awards early, despite the fact doing so is a terrific way to spend money scoring for some one else when they steal it from you? HHHHHHHHMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.................................. At least the video is correct about dictating the pace of play and tempo of the game. It got one thing right.

@GreyWizardInsights 4 жыл бұрын

Very fair, I don't mind criticism. I still stand by what I say, for people newish to the game looking to improve their regular score, but after you play a bit, you start getting a feel for whether you can pull off 5 science tags or whatever. I was wrong about Planner. I kept seeing people lose trying to go for Planner and made my advice based off of that (because I kept beating people who flooded their hand with cards trying to get planner so I would focus on terraforming to end the game before they regained tempo), but more often than not, I end up primed for Planner because the rest of the players aren't aggressively terraforming enough to force me to rush. I made a followup video that is still probably wrong for the highest level play, but I think more appropriate for the next tier of players.

@jeffreyculbert728 4 жыл бұрын

@@GreyWizardInsights I mean, its an almost 2 year old video. It's pretty understandable that some of the things we, as players, thought a year and 2 years ago aren't as relevant or powerful as they first appeared. As time progresses and players improve at the game things are simply going to change in terms of how we view the things that lead to wins. I like that there are some videos out about TM these days, and that the community is putting out content about the game because it's amazingly fun while deceptively nuanced and complicated. So getting information into new players hands to help with the learning curve is an admirable task to take on. The most common mistakes I see in advice videos or threads on Board Game Geek offering this type of information is that often the information as presented doesn't give respect to the format (number of players, expansions, map, etc) and yet is presented as universal in nature when it's often not. I've got a couple of articles on BGG about universal fundamental principals that will apply in every format that I think does a better job of highlighting the aspects that are most consistent at leading to wins in competitive settings. A lot of what makes TM great is that many different situations can arise that lead to different things requiring priority or circumstances that are specific and dictate specific correct responses and play patterns. Trying to identify universal fundamental principles in this type of environment is very difficult, I probably shouldn't be too harsh considering it's taken me thousands of games to come to understand the things I know now. In any case, thanks for creating TM content at all and being part of the community.

@christelrene3734 4 жыл бұрын

Jeffrey Culbert, I’m having trouble finding your articles on BoardGameGeek. Would you be able to post links? Thanks!

@jeffreyculbert2093 11 ай бұрын

@christelrene3734 They’re tougher to find now that some time has passed, but just going to the older pages in the Strategy section and looking for my name as the author should do the trick just fine.