What’s your favorite resource for getting your drawing knowledge?

Stan in January: “In 5 years everyone will be teaching online”... try 5 weeks bro lol.

The timing for DIY artschool couldn't be perfect thanks Stan and Marshall

The way Marshall talks so smoothly and clearly seems that he is born to be a radio host!

A difficulty of diy art school though, is having to do it after work when you’re tired or doing it on weekends. But at least you’re learning what you actually want to learn.

You are ABSOLUTELY killing it with these thumbnails NEVER change

The part when Stan says you have to constantly search for the things you want to learn is 100% true. I am an engineer and this is absolutely true, the constant search for an answer to a problem will lead you to the answer directly or indirectly. I would add to this that even when you find the answer you must keep looking both for optimization and corroboration.

I wish I had Marshall in my life. Someone to go on a winding tangent of wisdom and endless recommendations

My go-to sources for representational drawing: - for purely basics: Proko - more portrait specific: Stephen Bauman In addition to any specific anatomy learning materials, the desktop app "zygote body" helps me visualize the big picture of human anatomy pretty well

Having gone through art school I can say that there have been some pros that I don't think have been brought up (though I still don't think the price is necessarily worth it). I will make a slight defense, but I will agree with the fact that: Everything that is taught at art school can be found online AND art school is dangerously expensive and is a real gamble that can screw you over. Art schools don't make a lot of profit (or at least the ones I've looked into). They are expensive, but they aren't very profitable. Having as little as 3-6 less students per course can actually kill certain majors or entire fields of study. Art schools have to balance both marketability (what does the student THINK they need) vs applicability (what does the student ACTUALLY need). For instance, imagine you are a high schooler who wants to be an animator. Are you going to go to an art-school that has an infamously difficult first year crash course that teaches complex anatomy, draftsmanship, perspective drawing, and technical skill? Or are you going to go to an art-school that says "You get to animate in YOUR FIRST SEMESTER!!!". To someone who doesn't know better, you want what you want NOW and the idea that certain skills that aren't what you like might help you get better at what you want can be a foreign concept. Art schools have tough decisions to make where having less marketability might make them sink further into debt so they are "forced" by the market to appeal to what the students want to know and not necessarily what they need to know. It's hard to tell the parent of your customer "What your kid wants isn't actually what they need to get a job." That being said, there is nothing wrong with animating in your first semester, but animating (if hand-drawn or requires building your own rigs and what not) is a heck of a lot easier if you understand how to draw anything from any angle. I'm also not DEFENDING art schools that say they can teach you to become a master but are actually only teaching you what you want to hear. Time: Art school gives you time and you are literally paying for the time to learn. It is MUCH harder to try and learn all of this stuff while balancing a full-time job or even a part-time job. I understand it is still possible to do it without art school (as many have) but art school gave me the time to understand just how bad I was at art and adapt to the challenge of needing to get better. I can safely say that the only reason I was able to get "skilled" at art was because of the time to be able to push myself as much as I wanted. If I wanted to pull several all-nighters and make the best work that I could I had the time and availability to do that. As people say, Time is money and at art school you are also paying for time and not just classes. Instant community feedback and peer knowledge: Before art school I had no favorite artists or even knew what Instagram was. Essentially, all I knew was that "I liked doodling monsters in high-school and coming up with story ideas." I never knew anything about "internet art communities" or "internet artists" and stuff like that. Art school allowed me to immediately see that people "followed artists", had "favorite artists", or would take "inspiration" from other artists. I had no idea that that was allowed or even a common thing and it helped me get a bigger picture of the scope of art and that there are many genres and sub-genres that people were inspired by. Some people can excel on internet art communities, but for me it never works. There is a disconnect that makes it hard for me to stay attached to them. Without art school, I can say that I definitely would not be an artist nor would I have found what I like to do as an artist. Some of the most important "art-changing" moments that I can think of happened at art-school because a teacher directly told me, "This is something you aren't good at and you continue to make this mistake. I want to see you fix this and make this weakness your strength.". That information can still be said online or through internet communities, but I do not think that it stirs the same emotions as an in person discussion or critique. Art school is ridiculously expensive (even the cheaper ones) and I find it hard to justify the pricing especially when I have seen so many people go through art-school and not show vast improvement. Art school definitely helped me become an artist, but I would say that the vast majority of people I know who went to art school do not have art jobs even several years after attending it. The issue with a lot of art schools is that art itself is "subjective" and can be difficult to enforce students to meet certain "quality tiers" or "tiers of improvement". If a student doesn't improve after 2 semesters do you kick them out? Or do you let them stay because "they are paying you to go there". Is the school morally responsible for someone who is paying to go to something but is unwilling to learn? Or should the school force you to learn a very specific way which will then make a bunch of "clone artists" who all make the same work? Personally, I think all of the knowledge that art school offers is available for free online. Proko (and many other channels) have given me infinitely more knowledge than art school gave me, but art school gave me time to develop experience and to learn how to perceive art in a way that I don't think can simply be taught online. The only reason why I have learned to appreciate Proko is because of art school. Without it I would never have clicked past one or two Proko videos. One last word of advice if you want to go to art school: Go to an art school that is NEAR THE INDUSTRY YOU WANT TO GO INTO. I had no understanding of how difficult it would be to try and get an art job when the nearest relevant hiring place is roughly 800 miles away. You want to be able to get a job out of college or during college. The sooner you get a job the better. It is an uphill battle having to convince people that you will "transfer" for a position instead of living right down the street from the said position.

Round the 32 minute mark - talking to pros - I think it's in every learner's advantage to take a few minutes to construct their questions ahead of time. A well-crafted question can invoke a great deal of an instructor's insight.

Marshall speaks with knowledge and passion and u can’t help but want to hear what he has to say.

The thumbnails are becoming more and more awkward. Can't wait to see the next!

Marshall and Stan always surpass themselves with each intro

The intro made my whole year. This is officially my favorite channel.

Best thumbnail game on the internet right here

Community college is great. I loved the experience I had and it is a great way to save money and it allows an incredible range of flexibility. You can always transfer out and expand.

I’m 31, been doing art my whole life. I attended a handful of art colleges, (with the intent of 2D animation) mixture of community & short semester grants I got from grade school art contests. I came to the conclusion of a lot of the things you’ve been talking about these cluster of episodes regarding school by my early 20’s, and gave up on education especially because the 2D animation industry was kinda dying/dead at the time, until the internet gave an outlet for that. Having resources like these later in life when you really wanna go back to doing what you should have never given up on, is a huge treasure. Great advice & validation time my own thoughts about what may or may not help me, here. Imma try to seek these things out further. Thank you

FINALLY, I have been waiting for these episodes! It makes my day!

Me looking at the thumbnail: Dang! Stanislav is THICC! Oh, and Marshall is curvy!

In another life I taught Garden Design at a college. It was a year course with a certificate at the end of it. I was frustrated that I had to teach a fixed and outdated curriculum but I did the best I could. As an introduction to the course I created a six week course. I was shocked to discover that the result of the six week students work was equal if not superior to those on the year long course. There is far too much hoop jumping, list ticking that teachers have to do. This creates poor courses and poor teaching. If I ever teach again, I will do short subject specific courses e.g. design principles without a certificate. A certificate also creates panicky stressed students who feel the certificate is far more important than the knowledge the teacher is trying to pass onto them! Great subject guys. Look forward to the next one 😊

I love two of these guys. They play so well off of one another. Keep up the good work guys!

Love the new art in the background walls!

HIS EPISODE LITERALLY SOLVED ALL OF THE PROBLEMS IVE EVER HAD!!! I'm an animation student, in the UK and I've made the mistake of going to an art school abroad and quickly realized that they didn't have the resources to teach the things I thought (and hoped) I was going to learn (the three things Marshall mentioned at 31:04 ). So that's thousands of dollars down the drain for a degree that means close to nothing and a lifetime of teaching myself the principles. At least I have this podcast to keep me on the right track. also, since I'm commenting, I should say that in Michael Hampton's book, the animators survival kit he definitely has a lot of peer gossip. so books might be a good source for that.

So, I'm not an artist in the sense of drawing paintings, but I do dabble in vector graphics at work as well as some creative endeavours at home (mapping for the classic Doom game, scale modelling space ships, photography) and what's great about this podcast is, that it's so universal. Whatever it is that you're doing, as long as it's a creative pursuit, you'll get something out of this podcast. Even if it's not drawing or painting.

One of the best thumbnails and openings yet!

The Getty Villa museum is so beautiful, I can't wait to go back.

marshall your website is by far the best i have seen. great knowledge at low price. thank you

It’s cool to hear what Marshall said about the importance of composition. I was watching an interview of an artist I really like and she said composition is absolutely the most important part of her illustrations. It’s why people can see an illustration original character they’ve never seen before and fall in love with it.

Marshall, you are something very special.

Wow, just starting this and quarantine is about to end and this podcast is so relevant in these times. I bet the society is realizing right now that as long as we want to learn something, it is possible when we choose and use wisely the right resources and with motivation.

I feel like you guys are amazing teachers!!!

Came across this youtube channel recently. I am really enjoying the content. You guys are awesome.

You two make my day every video

Honestly the best drawing knowledge resource is youtube. You can't get any better resources for this price anywhere else and you get a lot of critical thinking to do in order to find the best ones, which is also a good thing in a way.

Roadmap at 24:30 is pure gold. Amazing episode!

PERFECT. TIMING.

I loved doing the Pizza Hut reading thing as a kid. I was grabbing whatever the smallest books I could find to fly through the "quiz" you had to do.

One of the things I have really struggling with when it comes to learning art is the structure and sequencing of learning the fundamentals. Marshall's discussion of dissecting the university curriculum was a really good idea, and will have to be something I investigate further. But what really got me was something he said just around 30:51, about the three types of skills: technique, draftsmanship, and composition. Ever since the episode last season where they discussed the fundamentals, I had been synthesizing this theory about how composition and perspective formed two really strong poles on the fundamentals. Take a concept like lighting: Marshall had talked about the effect of perspective on lighting in that episode, but you can also consider the design aspect of Notan, or the impressionistic view of the light effect as a compositional aspect. Similarly, the way Stan and Marshall discussed gesture in a prior episode, about the sympathetic line (composition) vs the structure and proportion of the figure (draftsmanship). When Vilpuu teaches gesture, discusses this very compositional approach to how fast your eye travels through the pose, which is very different to how Stan teaches it. Is this something that's been really obvious to everyone else? That's the kind of thing that really holds me back.

Stanislav Igorivich Prokopenko. That's a bold full name, awesome. Thanks for the podcast and all, education , community. Thanks a lot.

I learned so much from this podcast thanks

Hi, I'm 26 years old and I started studying drawing during this pandemic. Starting as a beginner is very complicated because we never know when we should delve into each topic. for 3 months I was lost, even looking on the internet where to start, it is very difficult for a beginner managed to digest and organize a study schedule. I started a course, but the teacher is not one of the best, i always get bored, but the course helps me to know what to study, I end up ignoring the teacher and leave it to study the theme for the Proko channel, and I always get feedback from the teacher. The internet has everything, it has different answers to the same question, and this makes a sea of ​​confusion for those who know nothing about a topic. When I started looking to learn to draw, I looked like a child in a library, choosing quantum physics to learn the basics of mathematics.

I’m adding my (unpaid) endorsement to The Great Courses. I’ve gotten the annual subscription so I can watch/listen to dozen (100’s ?). I’m a longtime fan. Almost always excellent. Some libraries have them. If libraries were open.

What you can't get from online is the interaction with the instructor in the same way as in person. Where they can get on your drawing and point you in the right. It transforms from abstract thought to how to apply it to that person's art. Maybe that goes on under your outline of mentoring.

I spent many a wonderful evening in bygone years spellbound in small Nashville clubs, watching Victor Wooten and his amazing brothers & friends weave their funk magic just mere feet away. One night, they were joined onstage by the lead singer of P-Funk and 3 of James Brown's horn players where they proceeded to just *slay* the James Brown classics, dance moves and all...I felt good! And the cost, week after week for hours of this each time? Just $4 a night. I watched straight through this time taking no written notes; will have to watch again. Thanks Marshall for the recommendations on Great Courses Plus. :) I would add that knowing both your motive for developing as an artist and the quality or "health" of that motive is essential for ultimate fulfillment. I would also note that a bias for action/ willingness to start with imperfect knowledge will teach you much. I'm reminded of Tony DiTerlizzi's "origin story" in his "Realms" book as one example. As another, Barry Windsor Smith makes similar allusions that can be pieced together from his "Opus: Volume 1" accounts of making his way in the art world. Both showed the importance of caring, as Stan mentioned. Applicable Bible Verses: Proverbs 1:7; Proverbs 14:23

9:19 the reason why learning to lie is the first thing a child needs to learn (btw) is because it is a landmark of progress that the child is able to comprehend the concept of what they know versus what others know which also happens to be one of THE biggest factors that differentiate humans from other animals, and that is the knowledge that others have their separate conscious and that others think differently. so when a child learns to lie it knows that the conscious of the parents are separate and they do not know what the child does and learn to take advantage of that, the more complex the lie the more developed the child is.

This podcast is exactly what I need! The only thing I might add is that you're speaking from a point of view of a student that has already grasped the basics. I know I didn't even know what to study when I wanted to take drawing seriously. What do I need to know to start at the basic concepts? What is value? What is lighting? Why do I need to know anatomy? Etc...

Taking the advice from the episode.. asking the pros.. I need a help with studying drawing and dunno anymore what to do. I started on my own with Andrew Loomis' book (Figure Drawing) and then also went with Aaron Blaise and you (Proko). But then some time later, after all my bad drawings (since Im learning and trying to improve), I slowly got discouraged cause of lack of improving, even in comparison with my older drawings.. and I felt like I couldnt force myself to draw as much and intense as I would love. And there arent any proper drawing art schools here where I am. And painting online get me slowly but surely feel like I am alone in all this. I am in some art groups that can help, but they are all way more advanced and even seeing that (as well as Im older) gets into discouraging that Im so well behind and where I could have been if started sooner (but back then the problem was that I DIDNT KNOW WHERE TO START.. I was looking for answers to that, but it was really hard without any schools or anything around here, and since not even ENglish was my native language, internet wasnt really an answer as well). So.. I dunno.. what is there even to do for someone who seeks a personal guidance of some mentor in real life, yet is incapable of finding any? I always try to go back to drawing, but it's like in these intervals where Im happy to draw and then slowly slipping into being depressed about this stuff when sitting in a room at night and all alone, seeing how I'm not progressing. Online groups seems to be an obvious answer, but every single one I found or joined, it's always already well in advance and doing catch-up is again being, and feeling, alone. I even tried to create a group but had basically noone to really join who'd mean it seriously. And tutorials are a bane of mine.. sometimes I can watch them longer, but often times it is almost impossible for me to sit through even five minutes of them.. I could literally sit in art class the whole day and night, and listen to this stuff and draw and draw.. but kept on my own and only watch voices on screen without ability to ask anything and I'm done for... I dunno what to do.. and a few years back I said I have had enough, and I created my own routine. Was drawing at least 4 hours a day, every day (except weekends) and it went great. But then of course a job came, lack of time came, and it started to be less and less, until it was too much to continue and thus, slowly I stopped. So.. also any tips on learning to draw with a huge lack of time? What would be an efficient way to go about it? And any tips or advices for someone who looks for a personal (class) guidance in a place where there isnt any? How should I go about learning all this by myself?

Yes, we love you in India! Love the knowledge you share, the banter and the humor. Thank you for doing this.

I love this. As someone who can’t fly due to medical issues, which obviously also impact my ability to go to conferences and the like, I love the idea of being able to bring information to me.

Marshall is just the coolest guy ever. So much wisdom and genuine appreciation for learning, insight, and just everything. Feel like I'm listening, genuinely trying to pick up character traits from him to be a better person, hahaha. Kinda wish there was a better 'gameplay' loop than Marshall saying something really insightful and thought provoking and then the others basically just going "HAHA - OLD"

Well, I'm here from India! Punjab to be specific. Plus I encourage all my art friends to watch this podcast.

stuff like this makes me love the internet!!!!

Another great video from you guys! I will say that one great artist that is at the top of his game that is pretty good at teaching is Jim Lee. Aside From Proko's videos of course, Jim's video's are some of the best on the internet.

Stan, I've got to say this, a degree in a good University doesn't cost 20-100k in every country. Three courses of yours + models for reference (3k in total?) are what I paid for my degree in physics and although I am in love with your free lessons and an advocate to your teachings, I ask that you broaden the scope of your podcast since, like you said, you have plenty of viewers across the world. Thank you for your work, I can't wait for the perspective videos! Ps: I do agree that you don't need a degree and that information is online for everyone.

Gotta LOVE the intro!!🤣🤣

I used to live in Socal and went to Getty a lot. Great museum.

Oh, I went to the Norton Simon museum last year! I live a 20 minute drive from there. It was really nice.

these are so soothing :)

Could you please make a podcast on the book 'Mastery' by Robert Greene? I think this community can learn a lot from it especially in making your own path.

I really love these videos. This is something that hapens with education in general: I can completely relate to that, coming from a humanities background where they don't teach you any marketable skill, since it is a program designed only to train scholars. Most of the people enter university with the idea of getting prepared for that segment of the qualified workforce, those "white-collar" jobs. Most of the people still think that and they were told (like me) that formal education is the main way to get a good job. And -this is even more harsh in humanities- they end doing those jobs their parents threatened them with as kids if they messed up in school.

A shout to community colleges! Yes! I had great teachers who taught at other universities on other days. So I was taking the class at the same level as some private university but much cheaper and classes were more egalitarian too..

Marshall is the coolest person ever.

I feel like I should be taking notes in all these podcasts. dammit, youtube algorithm really did me a favor! u guys have one of the best if not the best podcast on art here in youtube

This truly is the the perfect timing for self schooling for me. Although i've been educating myself via internet since 2015, Bangladesh is not a good place for art.

Thank you for this podcast! It has been so awesome!!! This art school series is extremely relevant and helpful for where I’m at in my art progression right now. I’m still in high school so I’m unable to visit real life art schools and lectures, and I also lack the desire to go because of the vast amount of education online. I most certainly do not lack the desire for knowledge!!! I am still in the very early stages of my beginning as an artist, and there is so much I want to learn. My dream and direction is to become a character designer/concept artist/comic book artist, so I want to focus my attention on courses that will build the skills and knowledge required for everything related to this. The problem I am facing is figuring out what knowledge that entails. I have been learning largely from New Masters Academy, currently lessons from Steve Houston and Glenn Vilppu, and I have progressed leaps and bounds in understanding and doing, but I think I am beginning to know just enough to realize how little I know. I would really love to hear any helpful thoughts on NMA and the instructors. Sorry for spilling my soul in the comments, much thanks if anyone read this.🙏 I am greatly looking forward to more of this highly practical and inspirational podcast!!!

thanks ever so much you guys

Enjoy these guys...

Yes Stan u got a fan from India ,I've been watching your videos for so long its very helpful Keep doing these amazing podcasts! (Don't worry u got a huge fan base from India)

I am from India ...i did find this podcast ... and I'm glad i did...❤❤ Much love

You two guys have giving me so much meat on the bone, so i almost felt obligated to have Draftsmen show as featured channel on my tiny tiny ..Tiny channel, well now it is - Anyhow, really, thank you for all the great stuff, and that we are allowed to kind of, picking your brains.

I'm currently in an art school in Germany but man it's useless they teach you something that you can learn it in he cheapest way at home with your own self-made core curriculum ! . Even the universities in Germany in the field of art are useless and waste of money / time , unless you say i want to get hired in specific area or office which they definitely need to check your degrees first and don't pay too much attention on your skills and portfolio . I've seen many of these art schools and universities plans in Germany , what they teach you or offer you are bunch of useless and bullshit information/ theories which is at the first point boring and second won't give you enough skills of knowledge to draw correctly etc. You helped me a lot guys cause i owe you , i listened correctly to what you said ,i made my own core curriculum based in my needs and mandatories and not what the school gives me each semester . I see the progress in my works and learning and see the better vision for my carrier . I've decided to drop off from school and save money and time ! . Thanks for your brilliant and honest podcast .Art is about to be free and freedom .

Skillshare and studying real life models are my favorite drawing resources.

BEST INTRO OF ALL

so cool Marshall, I am also a Great Courses fan and drink them up. They are just wonderful. I have also listened to Masterclass. It's good but not that great for art. Great for writers.

37:53 yep! That's one of my problems...that and mainly that I don't know exactly my focus ...🤔 I am between illustration, photography, painting, animation, storyboarding, concept art..... I know it is not logic to study all and I know they all relate to eachother but...then?.what do I do? 😵😵 I don't have enough life or energy for everything.

How to know what to study - Care enough to know where to look and pick most frequently occurring recommendations - Compare catalogues/curriculums - ask professionals “what do I need to know to do your job” (through conventions, instagram, panels etc) even KZfaq videos can do this. Peer gossip - go to conventions and find people hiring (through panels) complaining about what skills graduates lack. Try to travel to a convention once a year Job Opportunities - look at job postings and see what type of jobs most studios are looking for

Hi guys. Thanks for the video. A quick question: at one point you refer to, and show, a skills tree that you created during the first season. Which episode is that from?

Marshal👏 drop👏 the 👏perspective👏 course.

thanks so much guyss, these videos could not have come at a better time for me! I loved your suggestion of looking at specific art curriculums but I can't seem to find any that look in depth at each of the modules studied. Does anyone have an example of a very detailed art curriculum to work from?

Me and my brother had one of those imaginary worlds filled with friends etc. It was super fun and quirky

One of the biggest plusses for art school and biggest challenges of self-started education for me is that the curriculum provides answers to questions that I didn't even know how to ask.

Holy SHIT that "Pizza for reading" thing takes me back. WOWZERS. I haven't thought about that in years.

Another great artist that teaches very well is James Gourney!

You guys ARE BIG in India already, I know of like 20 people myself who follow you ardently. You've been of help. Good luck for the lockdown though, hope it's making you cook more often😅

12:50 As a 2024 update to how teaching is moving more or totally online, the SAT test is no longer paper and pencil it's now only on the computer. And a lot of my past teachers have lectured more online.

I really appriciate what Stan brings up at 38:00 People don't often realise that not everyone is in America. Where I live there's no such thing as Comicon or the like

I had the same program in my school with the pizza and reading thing

I have to say that my biggest problem with a DIY school was organizing the chapters or modules or whatever you want to call them and Exercises/ Tasks getting an online subscription does not help either in the case of for example schoolism, as there isn't any precise way for you to move (all classes are there for your choosing so my first question was where it begins and where does it end) it took me two days to sort through the lessons and place everything in order. what i believe is something that people and future DIY student need to understand is that every lesson will give you one maybe two exercises and its your job to repeat/ replicate the process and find material to recreate that exercise how many times you need in order to feel comfortable with the material that you have been taught. My desktop wallpaper for the past year was actually the one they showed in the series, about how Marshal and Stan think someone should go about the process of learning how to draw, i used it as a reference as to where i stand and how i should proceed.

Hey Marshall, fantastic that you're doing the bootcamp online. I'm from Europe, and it always made me really sad I had to miss your courses. I'd love to join this time around, but I just moved and don't have much money left to spend. I understand that right now you're doing this online because of the virus, but is there any chance you'd do something like this again say, next year, so everyone around the world can enjoy learning from you? Not that I don't want the pandemic to be over with by next year of course, but it's something to consider aside from dangerous virusses going around!

@ 23:25 Stan mentions Steve Huston, but the name that appears on screen is Steve Hudson.

this podcast is such a blessing, keep it up guys!

Why did I JUST NOW notice that this was Proko!?

@5:05 Marshall: Lemmi tell you one of the pitches dasdfsadearr Stan: NOO Marshall: Im gonna tell it to you Stan: I know you will. Marshall: ok XD

gonna have to use you two for reference for a lip synch animation skit for my showreel - proko baiting vandruff at precisely 15.01min is absolute gold. ill tell you why i didnt have an art degree... youre a quitter... cue micro expression of consternation, disbelief at mock-rudeness and dismissal. Hilarious. Must have rewound that particular section more times than that bit from Fatal attraction hahaha

14:00 Yes, you are BIG in India..! Love from Mumbai, India :)

Love that drawing behind marshall by amaya gurpide!

This is all very interesting and I agree with most of it. However you are putting a lot of faith on a High School student who wants to pursue a career in art. Depending on the High School and location they may not have the knowledge of options. Going to an Art School or College, often can open up many possibilities. I guess you addressed this later in the show...

these thumbnails are just another level

@8:30 doing a lot of reading for a pizza hut personal sized pizza... was this that “Book-it” program? I had that in elementary school about 1994 or so