Dual Wielding VS 2 Handed Guide & Analysis | Baldur's Gate 3

Dual Wielding VS 2 Handed Guide & Analysis | Baldur's Gate 3 | BG3

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Күн бұрын

In this video I breakdown exactly how Two-Weapon Fighting and Two-Handed weapons work, looking at the Feats that impact them and comparing damage potentials against each other.
#BaldursGate3 #BG3 #BG3Guide
My other BG3 videos:
Character creation and ability points guide: • Character creation abi...
Saving throws explained: • Saving throws and conc...
General Tips: • Tips and tricks includ...
Written reference guide for this video:
Reddit: / dual_wielding_vs_two_h...
STEAM: steamcommunity.com/sharedfile...
FAQ/Corrections:
Q1) You said it’s only ever worth to have one Character Dual Wielding, I don’t agree, I have a Rogue and a Fighter DW and doing great.
A2) You can run multiple DW Characters of course and BG3 is a game where you can use many different builds and still succeed. I’m not here to tell you not to do something, especially if you are having fun! I just try to provide information to hopefully, help people make slightly better informed decisions going forward.
Q2) What Dual Wielding build do you recommend and do you use the Dual Wielding Feat?
A2) This video is not a build video. There are plenty of other resources to find specific builds. But in my Honour mode run I’m running:
To level: Gloomstalker 5 | Thief 4 | Fighter
Respec: Fighter 6 | Thief 3 | Gloomstalker 3
Although I don’t think there is much difference between the two above versions. I’m not saying this is the best build by any means, simply that it is what I used. Because I'm using two light weapons Crit build, I took the Savage Attacker Feat instead of Dual Wielding for better damage consistency.
Q3) Why did you round down in the examples, that has lowered the damage output and is not the correct maths.
A3) I did this so that the information would display better on the charts, and be easier to process when viewing the video as a casual viewer.
This has slightly lowered the totals across all the examples. But this was not done to falsify data towards one viewpoint. The changes are minor and don't change the main learning points from this video, in my opinion.
Q4) Not including accuracy in the damage charts massively impacts the outcome. -25% chance to hit with GWM will reduce your damage and make DW look much better.
A4) I do mention that DW will be consistent and you will hit more often. I made the decision to not include accuracy because it is very subjective and target dependant. If I took an average, people might complain I didn't take a highly armoured target or boss instead for example. Look on Reddit and the forums and you will find most people say the -5 from GWM makes little difference to hit chances, and so I ran with that in this video. I should have included more details about this in the video for sure though. It was not my intent omit this and make one option look better.
Some people say the -5 makes it so 25% of your attacks will miss. This is not accurate, especially when with advantage and already having a very high chance to hit the enemy. Late game I'm finding that my GWM Character often has 88%+ chance to hit enemies compared to my DW one with 99%. Including that calculation into the damage calculations I felt might complicate the matter for the viewer. But once again I concede I should have highlighted the situation better, especially at lower levels.
Q5) How can you compare DW with the use of a Bonus Action and not include Bonus Actions for Two Handed weapons!?
A5) In my examples I'm trying to provide grounded examples, not including one-off abilities that require a long or short rest. Including everything like this would require lots more tests, and I would always miss something out. At higher levels, the Two Handed examples do include the Bonus Action being used for GWM.
Q6) How is the Math worked out on the Critical hit comparison damage table?
A6) I took the average for the whatever the base weapon was including GWF if applicable. Included the Modifier bonus of +4 on each example. For the Bonus dice examples I also included two D4 to represent say fire or psychic damage. I averaged these out at as 2 for all examples, including the GWF even though it should be 3 really but I rounded down for every example.
For the Crits I doubled all the dice rolled. Short Sword 2 attacks got 1 crit and 1 normal, did the same for the Dagger to even it out across both weapons.
LINKS:
GAMING EXISTENCE DISCORD SERVER - / discord
AceCalhoon GWF Post: rpg.stackexchange.com/questio...
0:00 Intro
0:10 Dual Wielding Basics
1:17 2 Handed Basics
2:19 Level 1-3 Comparisons
4:09 Dual Wielding with Feats
5:51 2 Handed with Feats
6:51 High level Damage comparison
9:28 Critical Hits
11:33 Crit Damage Compared
13:00 DW Hand Crossbows

Пікірлер: 336

@GamingExistence 5 ай бұрын

The description has links to my written reference guides for this video on Steam + Reddit, and my other video guides. It also has a FAQ and corrections section, feel free to drop a comment and I will add it to that section. Thank you for watching and I will see you next time!

@michaelbayley9432 4 ай бұрын

Another thing to point out is dual wielding only gets extra dice from either symbiotic entity/colossus slayer or aura of hate as far as class features go that apply to both attacks. Meaning if you’re not playing a ranger 1 fighter is the best way to acquire two weapon fighting.

@thrackerzodfromdimensionon3882 4 ай бұрын

at a few points in the video the audio is rapidly switching between being Left centered and Right centered, which is disorienting.

@GamingExistence 4 ай бұрын

@@thrackerzodfromdimensionon3882 Got my audio issues sorted out going forward. Thanks for the feedback ☺️

@Othysss 4 ай бұрын

Great video! Can you drop the build you had for your dual wielded? Item and class levels and stats? That would be awesome to try out thank you!

@sazuru5708 4 ай бұрын

Offhand does not add your modifier without the two weapon fighting style so the numbers are a bit off.

@rookie2128 4 ай бұрын

note about the auto dual wield toggle: if you keep it on, and get an attack of opportunity, you will strike your target with both weapons, so its actually better to have it always on and strike with the offhand first if you want to split your attacks

@r6TrdSlow 4 ай бұрын

This is good info - thanks!

@Spoonri 4 ай бұрын

You can just turn it off for your turn then turn it back on just before ending your turn

@rookie2128 4 ай бұрын

@@Spoonri not that simple unfortunately as if you spend your bonus action with it off the toggle becomes unavaiable for the rest of the turn

@hah-vj7hc 4 ай бұрын

In that case, you don't to turn it off anyway, so that doesn't matter.@@rookie2128

@OneWingedRose 4 ай бұрын

Yeah I never see anyone mention this in their Dual Wielding vids for some reason. Playing with a controller I didn't even realise I COULD toggle dual wield attacks off for my first four playthroughs (the toggle is hidden in the inventory screen), so I was always doing offhand attacks first with dual wield toggle on already, then when I finally learned controllers CAN toggle it I quickly realised you lose half your opportunity attack and went back to keeping it always on anyway.

@srsgoblin 4 ай бұрын

Something people don't talk about enough for lower levels is weapon oils. Simple Toxins are everywhere in Act 1, and can be made relatively easily, and purchased for cheap from a bunch of vendors. That extra 1d4 damage will coat BOTH weapons when using the bottle. There's a handful of better poisons you can use, too. It is extremely good through Act 1. Obviously it tapers off a bit as you get further into the game, but it gets glossed over by people doing these calculations.

@eisenfell2818 4 ай бұрын

also you can drop a torch anytime before combat and tip your weapons in it adding a sleek 1d4 fire per weapon , this includes ranged

@arungupta9140 4 ай бұрын

The effort in showing all the visuals in an easy-to-process series of charts and graphs is top-tier.

@Mentatskillz 4 ай бұрын

One thing that I always go back to is this: Great weapons always have their full damage potential every turn. It still keeps the ability to use bonus actions like potions or jumping. In order for duel wielding to keep up, you need to commit three levels into rogue for thief AND always use your bonus actions to attack. Damage drops off a lot if you need to use a bonus action for something other than attacking.

@bartofii 4 ай бұрын

So much this. So far I've only seen one melee damage that gets even close to basic 2h and that's TB unarmed. But then you get those specialized 2h builds like war cleric to turn THEIR bonus action to damage XD.

@madhatter631 3 ай бұрын

I think this assessment is correct, but also the duel wielder is paying for greater flexibility with lower damage potential. Those 3 levels in rogue mean more skills, being able to reliably stealth, having higher damage on ranged weapons if you can’t close distance and being able to use 2 bonus actions for a lot of other options if attacking isn’t the best choice on a given turn. That flexibility for lower damage is part of the trade when deciding which route to go.

@bartofii 3 ай бұрын

@@madhatter631 Still.. the 2h can also take those same 3 levels of rogue... and grab cleric (for 3 charges per long rest) or great weapon master (extra attack on bonus action following crit/kills). Then they don't "choose" dmg or versatility they get BOTH at all times. A lot of my melee front line builds have thief solely due to what deft hands and cunning action allows. Now if sneak attack wasn't limited to once per turn... this could skew things more to favor DW but that's not the case.

@madhatter631 3 ай бұрын

@@bartofii yeah I think this is a fair point. I feel (emphasis on feel since I haven’t really thought through all the implications) like to get that utility you need higher dex, which doesn’t fit so well with a two-handed build in my mind. But then again, there are a lot of cheeky ways and gear to get a high dex even when it’s dumped. So yeah, I think I agree with you.

@bartofii 3 ай бұрын

@@madhatter631 actually it's less about cheesing the dex stat up and more about how easy it is to get baseline 20+ str either through potions or other options and the fact that you don't need that much of a positive score to still keep offensive options usable. str users can still get the titanstrike bow and use their str in BG3 on ranged attacks as well.

@itsnotbloodborne1237 4 ай бұрын

Wowza. Literally had the thought last night, “I think my dual wield melee build kinda sucks compared to my 2 handers”, and you sir have answered my question beautifully. Thank you!

@chad8767 4 ай бұрын

I'm playing a Gith Ranger/Thief and yes, Lae'zel out damages me ALL the time, but I mean she should cause she has a Silver Sword and is my love lol. But sneak attack from ranged with two hand crossbows is also nothing to sneeze at, I may not do as much damage as Lae'zel but I can use tons of magical arrows to really change that factor. I think the magical arrow really change the whole idea of two weapon fighting cause I can even heal a condition.

@garyco766 4 ай бұрын

The difference is exacerbated by the fact the all of the best melee weapons are great swords (Silver Sword and Balduran's) and all of the best bows are longbows (Titan String, Gontr Mael, Dead Shot), by a really wide margin.

@figuures6098 4 ай бұрын

Yeah ranged is superior is you take oils + arrows into consideration. Use the combustion oil, something like the helldusk gloves for fire dmg, and arrow of many targets, and you’ll coat and blow up large groups with single attacks

@AgentFrosty 9 күн бұрын

@@garyco766Most all people who run a dual wield build are going to run a Ranger, which is going to give you martial weapons (including longbows) already, so that's kind of a mute point. Ranger also gives you plenty of versatility in your build. You can be a high-Dex, dagger+shortsword wielder with Deadshot, sneaking around critting on 17's and above, or a strength-based Ranger Knight dual-wielding longswords wearing heavy armor, using the Titanstring. I've done both. The Knight is especially fun, because once you hit Act 3 you can have great AC (mine had 24ac after a quick trip to Dammon for Armor of Persistence and snagging the Helm of Balduran) and plenty of damage riders to supplement the weapons, with a great bow to boot. It's still not going to out-damage a pure 2H build with Balduran's greatsword and all that stuff, but I'd argue it's just as fun if not more so to play something like that. And to be honest, unless you're playing honor mode, it's kinda not even necessary to be having a debate over which does more damage, because both styles are viable. Only thing that matters is the enjoyment you get out of it really.

@DBelphegor 4 ай бұрын

i think you’re on the right track, statistical comparison on something can’t decipher easily is comfortable. hope to see more in the future.

@saltydog7482 4 ай бұрын

I've been dual wielding as an eldritch knight with the trident of the waves and the charge bound warhammer. Off hand hit applies wet, which doubles the damage of the lightning portion of the hammer for the next 3 swings. I also used drakethroat glaive to add a bit of cold to it as well

@Dys7ro 4 ай бұрын

My god was this the best video I’ve seen. Never thought dual wield could even come close

@theAV8R 4 ай бұрын

STELLAR video btw!! I rarely see overkill considered. The estimated value of 'Damage per attack' increases nonlinearly (diminishing returns), countered by the increasing value of inflicting the Dead condition sooner. Still, I NEVER see any mention of overkill.

@Solrex_the_Sun_King 4 ай бұрын

Not really because his rounding really took me out of it, making me do the math myself and no longer being able to trust the video.

4 ай бұрын

@@Solrex_the_Sun_King the rounding really showed how bad all his math is

@Solrex_the_Sun_King 4 ай бұрын

@ exactly like what the heck?

@Solrex_the_Sun_King 4 ай бұрын

@ if there was a button for reporting for misinformation for the video, not just comments, I'd tap it

@Quandry1 4 ай бұрын

@@Solrex_the_Sun_King I wrote a separate post but my issue is with him making note to mention the -5 to attack and then later when he's doing the math he ignores that as any kind of issue to take into account even thoough it's a serious deficit to the actual damage that the two handed fighter is going to deal and it is not completely made up by having advantage on the attack.

@SirCharles12357 4 ай бұрын

Best comparison of the two fighting styles I've seen. Great job!!

@katlewis7440 4 ай бұрын

Great video! I'm rethinking my fighter build for Honor Mode now. Thanks for this!

@AlexAlpas-ob5kk 4 ай бұрын

Well done video and +8 sleight of hand for the finesse and precision put into all the calculations and helping my understand bg3 under the hood haha

@MrHattor 4 ай бұрын

Savage attacker. Can’t really compare a feat (great weapon master) against a dual wielder without savage attacker rerolling all of the damage dice on your attacks. In my experience, the ability to stack more re-rolled damaged dice on my dual wielding savage attacker builds outpaced great weapon masters

@mi8kecheck 4 ай бұрын

Well made, insightful, and straightforward 👏🏽

@JoshMars_ 4 ай бұрын

Crazy editing, really good stuff.

@xi_caveman_ix6343 4 ай бұрын

This video is pure heat my guy 🔥

@hytalefanboi7471 4 ай бұрын

Wow this was a incredibly well done video! You have earned a subscriber

@omgabaddon 4 ай бұрын

I already knew all this stuff but still I'm liking and subbing for the charts and well-structured info.

@SIMPLYDEVON 4 ай бұрын

i have waited for this video since i played this game the first time thx great video

@zachlogan9621 4 ай бұрын

For my first complete playthrough i did a stalker build as you described with duel wielding hand crossbows and it was awesome. Had the archery attack style and sharpshooter as you described, but also had the bracers of duel wielding to get the damage modifier for duel wielding on my offhand crossbow as well.

@Quantum_Bluntz 3 ай бұрын

I’m trying to see what’s better for a Paladin. I’m glad you broke it down. Not too many videos explain this lol

@mr.lowprofile7833 Ай бұрын

Great vid, thank you!

@fanfan9748 4 ай бұрын

Great video attempting to break it down. To be honest this is all very situational as bonus actions means a lot more than just damage. Mysty step closes gaps like non other and you can also hide, or dash using bonus action and then does not lose damage if you two handing. You also has orin dagger that applies vulnerability to pierce which doubles your dps if you dual wielding. Too many different variables. I try to play what feels fun for me at different stages of game and respec as I go. Thanks for the video and hope for more to come! Edit: also damage riders apply to both hand and you usually land more attacks if you dual wielding.

@ThriftySteve 4 ай бұрын

Really great breakdown

@MrZanvine 4 ай бұрын

This is a well edited video. To visually get across the differences and potentials of the DMG the play styles can do, it would be good to show the distribution of the DMG - rather than just their average rolls. The benefit of showing the distributions are you can see how they are skewed, and how much variation can be expected around these average values. It is also easier to account for the dual wield higher crit rate, you could model that in (say, 15 crit range for DW and 18 for THW) and see how the distribution changes. You could also show how it is modified based on the -5 ATK roll, whether the atks are made with advantage (this is especially relevant for lower crit builds).

@nickwiger 4 ай бұрын

Fantastic vid. Cheers!

@georgetran2705 4 ай бұрын

Thank you for that breakdown.

@Ewafingmyth 4 ай бұрын

I feel like something that isn't properly compared here is damage riders. Any items or conditions that apply on hit (such as, arcane synergy or arcane charge) are applied an extra time on TWF compared to 2H which can massively boost the damage (even without crits) comparison as the massive contribution from GWM is no longer such a big number.

@andrewcarter9649 4 ай бұрын

Given that GWM is effectively giving you a +30 to damage per turn, you have to stack a lot of extra damage die to match it. Not impossible, but requires very specific items.

@Ewafingmyth 4 ай бұрын

@@andrewcarter9649 Not really, Arcane charge is +4 damage per hit. So that’s easily +16 extra damage. You need more than one sure but it’s not super specific

@Kaiserland111 4 ай бұрын

@@andrewcarter9649 It also gives you a 25% worse chance to hit, so it isn't +30 at all. Not to mention you aren't getting 3 attacks every turn, only when you crit or kill something.

@andrewcarter9649 4 ай бұрын

@@Kaiserland111Nobody makes a GWM build without using ways to mitigate the -5 to hit, at high levels having almost permanent advantage isn't hard and you should be looking at roughly a +15 to hit or more by late game anyway. Fighters get a 3rd attack at level 11, outside of Honor Mode 5 levels of Warlock gives you a 3rd attack from Improved Pact Weapon and the game itself gives you an incredible number of ways to gain an extra action. This is one of my problems with the 5th edition rule set, duel wielding tends to just get left behind in damage output against 2H weapons.

@anyadatzaklatszjutub 4 ай бұрын

by far the best video on this topic! can't wait for more!

@Corillo92 4 ай бұрын

Amazing helpful video!!

@drunemeton 4 ай бұрын

Awesome video! ❤

@prophetic-apathetic 4 ай бұрын

With the 2 handed style to further the chances of bonus action attacks, a 1 level dip into war cleric gives 4 bonus action attacks per long rest. A fighter can be respected to benefit greatly from this, at level 6 Fighter5/Cleric1 then swapping back to pure fighter at 11 then at 12 grab the Cleric1 again, you lose a feat but get greater consistency with bonus action attacks as you get 3 great weapon chances to proc (at level 6 it's 2 GW chances) with 4 war charges for a guarantee

@surplusvalue5497 4 ай бұрын

Uh oh, words gonna get out about the power of hand crossbows

@ErickRedcloud 4 ай бұрын

When the game came out and I learned ed that hand crossbows could be dual wielded I created a new character with that build in mind. Damn it is so overpowered.

@CK-ys3tu 4 ай бұрын

I wish you calculated “to hit” and “crit” against the damage numbers, especially early in the video

@Kaiserland111 4 ай бұрын

Hit and crit chance have huge impacts on damage calculations, and completely glossing over their importance made him lose most of his credibility.

@MLN-yz4ph 4 ай бұрын

This was very good thank you. You kind of touched on it but the thing I like about the dual is the ability to mix and match damage types. I had a ranger that between all of his items was doing a lot of damage because it created kind of a cascade effect. I would not take it on everyone but for some builds that can not really take advantage of the two handed weapons it can be really good. The other issue is getting the right items to really make it sing.

@bsiferd 4 ай бұрын

Great video man.

@abrielkeane4169 4 ай бұрын

Thank you for this 👍

@joeking3057 4 ай бұрын

What should be mentioned is that if you have extra damage bonuses on gear, it closes the gap for you based off sheer number of attacks for dual wielding. If your attacks deal 1-4 fire damage per hit just off the broken helldusk gloves alone, that’s an average of 8 increased damage for the dual wielder and only 4 for the two hander with a situational 6. Poisoning/dipping weapons grants more value on dual wielding. Hunters mark and phalar aluve both buff dual wielding significantly more than two handed.

@ninjaspambot 4 ай бұрын

Same is true for ability score flat damage, which is why TB monk with Cloud giant elixir is busted.

@lawjikgaming 4 ай бұрын

Amazing video. Also, specifically in BG3, there are A LOT of items that add small additional damage for each hit. Such as the necklace that gives each attack 1d6 acid damage to each attack. Also the sword from the underdark that gives 1d4 on each hit.

@booleanillogical4757 4 ай бұрын

Nice video, but chance to hit is something that should be accounted for in the math of average damage. You can use the avg ac of monsters per level available for the tabletop comapred to the +to hit you expect your build to have at any given lvl to determine this. Generally due to bounded accuracy this will come out to 55-65% chance to hit on avg. I have no idea if its been done but im sure the true avg ac of creature your expected to fight in act can be calculated for a more accurate view, but i doubt its far off from ~60% avg chance to hit. Adding this to avg dmg claculations allow you to see thay actually avg affect of the -5 +10 from GWM and SS, which is almost always an increase in avg dmg btw. You also dont consider Polearm master for the twohanders, which while it means using a 1d10 weapon instead of a 2d6, it also gives twohanders a consistent 1d4+str bonus action attack, that can also recive the -5 +10 of gwm. Meaning 3 attacks with the flat +10 to damage every round, its just sometimes the bonus attack will be a 1d10 instead of a 1d4. I also don't remember any mention of the opportunity cost of needing to use ur bonus action to get decent dmg at low levels. This hurts some builds more than others ofc.

@daveyfunk 4 ай бұрын

Great video. You hit the nail on the head where 2 handers provide more damage and dual wielders provide more flexibility. They're not comparable really and the optimum build for dual wielders is going dex build and then savage attacker for more consistent damage, along with the dual hand crossbows (sharpshooter). I generally prefer always having something to do with my bonus action and so prefer dual wielding. However, I would argue that Paladin and smites makes it more a level playing field between dual wielding and 2 handers as you then have a smite per weapon attack and so having 2 smites each time, with lets say a Bardadin build, makes the dual wielder much more competitive

@figuures6098 4 ай бұрын

I’m currently starting a dual wield paladin build for this, going 2pal/4thief/6sword bard. Get lots of spell slots, dual wield+savage attacker, 2 bonus actions, and flourishes as needed

@daveyfunk 4 ай бұрын

@@figuures6098 yeah, I've wondered that myself. Think a lot of people go 4 fighter for Champion for critical, feat and action surge but I'd be interested to know how thief works. Depends of course if you want more higher lvl spells and then going more in Bard. Think Bardadin is the most flexible and effective build in the game personally...definitely when you factor in the OP gear that pairs with it

@rickycool6083 4 ай бұрын

2 handers provide more flexibility cause of all the attacks you do, you get a spare bonus action, which you can use for defence or utility. Here in the video it is assumed extra bonus action thief is also used for attacks which means no defensive options for dual weilders. It's worse if you go dex cause 2 handers can just wear heavier armor but most Dual wielders have to wear light armour. Dual wielders are not competitive as they lack good feats IMO.

@daveyfunk 4 ай бұрын

@@rickycool6083 Sorry, I'm confused by what you mean two handers being more flexible for having a spare bonus action. Being flexible means you ALWAYS have a use for whatever is at your disposal and having a weapon in both hands means you can always attack with bonus action or do anything else. That's more flexible!!! I'm also confused what you mean by dual wielders having to wear light armour. There are plenty of ways to be proficient with armour and weapons and most melee characters will choose at least 1 level of fighter and will have that

@Shadlezz 4 ай бұрын

Great video, but I wanted to mention how an added benefit of dual wielding comes for Bard characters. College of swords bards only get access to duellist and Dual Wielding. At level 6 they gain the extra attack bonus as well! This is particularly good since they can use their bonus action to do “slashing flourish” allowing them to attack two targets in one attack, and being able to offhand attack leaves them able to use their action to cast spells. Combine it with Action surge or 3 levels of rogue for the extra BA And you end up with a really powerful main character build for both support and offense!!!

@BelfastBiker 4 ай бұрын

Really compelling video. Subbed..

@schmooplesthesecond5997 4 ай бұрын

greatweapon scales way better with extra attacks, haste, action surge, and/or bloodlust. unless we're talking about dual wielding deva's maces, or running aura of murder. even with aura of murder its still better to go with sharpshooter rather than dual wielding.

@prolific314 5 ай бұрын

Thank you

@AndyMacster 4 ай бұрын

This video is SO good. Wonderful stuff. Insta-sub!

@alirezafateh8209 4 ай бұрын

Nice Video 👍

@Alsdhjhhsyh996bshsjn 4 ай бұрын

Superb 👍

@michaelparker8928 4 ай бұрын

So eloquently spoken great explanations and presentation wonderful video

@petersmith1190 4 ай бұрын

Nice video, subscribed :)

@prkeene 4 ай бұрын

I don't care what the math says (and I was a math major!), the badassery of dual weilding Blackguard's and Voss's longswords which have been lightning buffed via a Sorcerer twin casting Draconic Elemental Weapon cannot be quantified. Slap on the Helldusk gloves and pick Savage Attacker and have a blast.

@yanmav340 4 ай бұрын

Its kinda late game only but i have to remind you Bloodthirst gives Vunerabily to piercing dmg that if played correctly will overshine any 2h non smite weapon build. Great video, subscribed!

@AlgorithmMockery 4 ай бұрын

Someone did their homework, thanks for doing this!

@bir6nard4 22 күн бұрын

When you compair average damages between 2 very close calculations... rounding down "for simplicity" is wild.

@bir6nard4 22 күн бұрын

that is 11 damage 03:21 (read this 11.3) vs 12 (read this as 13 = 6.5 + 6.5). so he made it look closer than it was.

@tombrand236 4 ай бұрын

I’ve had Astarion as a dual wielder this whole play through but might respec him after seeing this. Thanks!

@tadferd4340 4 ай бұрын

I personally don't like Rogues as dual wielders. Most of their damage is based around Sneak Attacks, which you get once per turn. It's not a bad idea to dual wield early for the extra d6 of damage if you don't need to hide to get Sneak Attack. Once Sneak Attack dice get high enough, dual wielding is rather mediocre and takes too much investment for Rogues.

@tombrand236 4 ай бұрын

Thanks mate. I had 2 in Rogue and 8 in fighter so far but dual wielding; so think I’ll respec him. His main role was lock picking I don’t particularly like him as a character

@tastytjustice 4 ай бұрын

I would love to give an honorable mention to one of the best Handcross bows in the game, the Ne'er Misser. Roah Moonglow sells it in Moonrise Towers and it's a +1 Hand Crossbow that does FORCE damage! The +10 damage from the Sharpshooter feat also gets converted to Force damage as well since it looks at the weapons damage type when determining the extra damage!

@figuures6098 4 ай бұрын

That thing is the goat, I always have a 2x hand crossbow user with it in every playthrough

@morsemaitre8767 4 ай бұрын

Great video, thanks ! Currently I'm playing Dual Wielding and I thought of a way to deal tremendous damages! I'm lvl 10, 2 paladin / 8 bards, That way I have a lot of spell slots to cast smite ! Building crit, I often get the opportunity to cast smite up to level 5 and with the school of blades I'm able to have up to 5 attacks per turn with 80%-90% chance to hit on average. I'm not as consistent as a 2 hands weapon damage dealer but in difficult situations, I can unleash my full potential. (+ thanks to my bard level I have very convenient control spells)

@CaptUvula 4 ай бұрын

Thank you thank you thank youuuu

@karefalk4119 4 ай бұрын

I'm currently doing a Two-Handed Rogue run. There are a few two-handed finess weapons in the game allowing you to use Sneak Attack. Together with the Assassin build of mostly having constant advantage, makes GWM incredibly useful.

@PeteB90 4 ай бұрын

Didn't realize you can turn off that automatic second hand bonus attack, that will actually make it so much better! Thanks.

@fanaras1977 4 ай бұрын

Nice video. Also one important point is the increased armor of dual wielders which can easily be dex based. With full dex buffs you have a +6 dex modifier on top of the 17 of agile armor to a total of 23 AC just from one armor piece, something that 2 handed chars cannot even dream off…

@AskTheDM 4 ай бұрын

as long as we're theorycrafting... you could start with 17dex and 8 str; ASI Dex, Auntie Ethel Dex, Mirror of loss Dex for 22 dex (+6), Armor of Agility... And Gauntlets of hill giant Strength for 23 strength (or elixir for 27 str), and wield a 2H while still having the dex benefits. And Balduran's Greatsword Doubles your Str Modifier to damage per swing. 2H chars can get similar AC to dual wielders

@ProfessorCLion 4 ай бұрын

Overall, this was a great analysis. Just one point towards dual wielding is that they're often using finesse weapons and dex based characters are incredibly useful and dex is an important saving throw

@sherrydowns4052 4 ай бұрын

Excellent! You take my sub! 😂

@TidusDowthelas 4 ай бұрын

my party utilized both Dual-wielding and Two-Handed Fighting style, Lazel, and Astarion respectively shined respectively in their feats, Lazel in two-handed style, and Astarion in dual-wielding, both had ranged feat specialties for when melee was not available. Coverage is key in harder difficulties so adapt as needed and think on the fly everyone.

@dallinadams9422 4 ай бұрын

Also a note on the blade of the under mountain king. Apart from the improved critical, it also has the same effect as the great weapon fighting, but with all of your attacks. This would apply to extra damage on sneak attacks as well as on smites for a paladin. My best builds in Act 3 are dual wielders, but the offhand weapon is more for its buffs then actually attacking with it.

@hf7219 3 ай бұрын

The buffs work when off hand? Sure?

@adrianjuarez1162 2 ай бұрын

Is it viable to make a dual welding paladin, or Rouge paladin?

@Silreen 4 ай бұрын

Okay this is the indepth crazy math video content I've been looking for. Amazing stuff!

@fallenkell 4 ай бұрын

Unfortunately it is indepth crazy wrong math since he rounded down averages all over the place. All those ".5" damage that he rounded down all over the place really add up, resulting massive difference in overall average especially when factoring in all the multiple attacks per round. I mean really, yes, you won't ever roll a "3.5" on a 1d6, it will be only ever be a whole number, not a fraction, but we are talking averages and averages have an exact value, as on average if you roll 2d6, your average will be a 7, not a 6 as he is calculating, and we are looking at a LOT of Xd6 rolls in many scenarios above, meaning that it is .5 off for each d6 (and .6 off for each d4, and .5 off for each d8, and .5 off for each d10, and .5 off for each d12.... it REALLY adds up to a LOT when you are rolling a lot of dice, which on 2 weapon character with all the various bonuses and buffs like the weapon burning, or in acid, etc., etc., really makes all the math flat out wrong).

@chriswheeler8143 4 ай бұрын

Plus. It considering hit chance, in damage calculations, which is pretty fundamental when one has -5 to hit. Expectation will be that dual weird is better against high AC targets and two handed against low.

@babayaga4320 4 ай бұрын

There's a pair of gloves you can find in Act 2 that come with two weapon fighting. If you already have it, you could always respec when you get them, take a different fighting style, and then you'd have two different fighting styles you could use.

@GamingExistence 4 ай бұрын

Completely forgot to put that in the video. Had footage of it and everything just slipped my mind. Thanks for filling in the gap 😊

@rookie2128 4 ай бұрын

Hardly worth giving up a glove slot for what is essebtially just +1 ac

@Badger3X 4 ай бұрын

@@rookie2128 Not necessarily. It's +1 AC, +Dex or +Str to damage on off-hand weapons AND your second fighting style could be Defense (depending on the class that gained the fighting style in the first place) for another +1 AC, putting you equal to the AC you'd get from a basic shield as long as you're wearing at least light armor. Is it worth a glove slot compared to other options? Personal opinion, but for the sake of the video in a vacuum, it's worth noting.

@xi_caveman_ix6343 4 ай бұрын

@@Badger3Xgreat points

@rookie2128 4 ай бұрын

im sorry but i think i dont understand what youre talking about? getting twf from the gloves means you can pickup a second fighting style... which the only one that we can make a use out of is defense for +1 AC. That is all that using those gloves allows us to gain over just taking twf from our class and using any other gloves (which btw could be wondrous gloves to just give us +1 AC directly)@@Badger3X

@Badger3X 4 ай бұрын

The solution to me seems to be: "Why not both?" Big ol' Fighter or Barbarian with a chunky two-handed weapon for BIG DAMAGE, then a two-weapon fighter to split damage as needed and potentially finish off multiple enemies. Then the rest as the party could be mage and healer or any other combo needed.

@viniciusyugulis7278 4 ай бұрын

I usually make barbarians dual wield and fighters use greatsword

@Badger3X 4 ай бұрын

@@viniciusyugulis7278 that is logical, double up on barbarian bonus damage. I've been using a str-based heavy armor dual wielding beast master ranger but with high level crow darkness globes Im thinking Great Weapon Master

@N4m3lesS_1 4 ай бұрын

@@Badger3X somehow the bonus damage barbarians do in rage mode completely slipped my eyes and i got karlach to hammer away. But my first playthrough was on balanced mode and most fights lasted about 2-3 rounds at latest lvl 8+ but propably even lvl 5+ so i am not sure it would have made a big difference. I forgot to turn it on because GWM already used my bonus action on that turn and then i constantly went "oh.. that rage button looks so unused"

@ThatReplyGuy 4 ай бұрын

I'd love to see the potential dps calculations when chance to hit is factored in. Yes, you can mitigate it in some ways, but if you use those same ways without GWM, your hit chance is almost guaranteed. If I can hit four attacks (with advantage) with 99% chance to hit vs three stronger attacks with 75% chance, I think I'd take the four. Especially if, like you said, I'm building crit chance, then the damage potential is likely closer to two-handers.

@ogolthorp 4 ай бұрын

War cleric or divination wizard is amazing with the greater weapon fighting feat. The ability to control what your party members roll basically negates the downside.

@pawzom2564 4 ай бұрын

One thing that I think closes the gap a bit between 2h and dual wield is that the latter can just swap their off hand weapon more easily depending on the situation they are faced with in the middle of combat if there is something they want to achieve. For example, if they are against a caster that is about to hit the party HARD once their turn is over but is not confident they will be able to finish it off, equip the sussur dagger in off hand then stab it once or twice with bonus action. 2h cant do this as they then lose their action. Edit: Now that I think about it I suppose they can try to throw it but if they are not built for it the chances of success would be lower than the dual wielders.

@sinner5452 4 ай бұрын

Sussur dagger make target silenced only if target took melee strike from it. throw does not work, iirc. Spending two melee attacks to swap offhand weapon with one which deals less damage sounds unwise - essentially you trade full turn for one enemy's turn (which sometimes can do something usefull even silenced). It can help, but its rare to have a situation like that with OK party planning. I wanted to test silence with sussur dagger and throw it into Gale with my Karlach... Not only Gale wasnt silenced at all after being hit - but also dagger dissapeared for some odd reason. In Honor mode. Great.

@pawzom2564 4 ай бұрын

@@sinner5452 With Gale's taste in ''food' I feel like that was just tempting fate on your part :P

@dallinadams9422 4 ай бұрын

Yes! Hand crossbows are awesome! Finding something for advantage can be difficult though, they also have much lower range. The ne'er misser is my favorite hand crossbow, dealing all force damage. Three attacks from level 3 are still pretty OP, especially when you attach damage buffs such as wrath, enlarged, and dipped weapons. At lvl 5 two handed weapons come back into play with extra attack and haste. Level 8 gloomstalker thief is crazy powerful with how many attacks, especially with hand crossbows. Another fun build is the psychic assassin taking advantage of the shadow blade, invisibility cloak, and the resonance stone. Give up the extra bonus action to guarantee crits on surprised enemies. Can also chain starting combat again and again for that extra gloomstalker attack and more crits. Best in Act 3 when you can give most creatures vulnerability to psychic damage.

@kingcobra2858 4 ай бұрын

Very detailed and straight to the point. TL: DR its consistency vs huge dmg. I still prefer DW at the moment for style and roleplaying reasons.

@roax206 4 ай бұрын

Though you can also take a lvl as a war domain cleric, which guarantees 3 turns where you can use two hand attacks using bonus actions per long rest as well as access to bless and divine favour.

@ericmckenzie1221 4 ай бұрын

This video is really well done! One minor critique would be the lack of mathematical inclusion of the -5 from GWM. All damage numbers for two handed weapons should be reduced by 25% to account for the -5. It's not a perfect fix, but it more closely reflects the difference in attack accuracy. I also didn't really understand the rounding down of numbers in your conversions. It had a much more significant negative effect on the dual wielding calculations. Two handed is way better in the tabletop game, but BG3 brought the two closer to parity with damage riders and crit reduction

@humanrye8696 4 ай бұрын

As oath of vengeance palladin you can get 10 turns of no drawback attack advantage for the cost of bonus action. This mitigates GWF penalty completely in later stages of the game. You can take it as guaranteed hit.

@avariciousandrew6921 4 ай бұрын

Well made video. Subscribed. Its the same with DOS2. Dual weilding is better in the early game but two handed is way better later on. The best use for dual weilding is for holding two stat sticks at the same time.

@shamanahaboolist 4 ай бұрын

The other thing to think about is damage wasted from over hitting. The dual wielder will be able to deal with trash mobs way more efficiently.

@chengvang2126 4 ай бұрын

That is what the spell casters are for

@eviljoshy3402 4 ай бұрын

I have PTSD when it comes to this issue thanks to another game. In Final Fantasy 11, a MMO, this was a huge problem at one point that didn't get fixed for like half a year. It was so bad that classes that specialize in 2 handed weapons were told to dual wield if they wanted to get into a party.

@archmage1015 4 ай бұрын

While this does focus on raw damage, it doesn't really explicitly note the fact that two-handed is more efficient damage-wise on a per action basis. You can attack more with dual wielding, utilizing bonus actions. However, if a character has other things they'd want to use their bonus action on, dual wielders are adversely affected for damage while two-handed characters are not. Great vid, though. Good explanations of the general maths involved.

@nicofeldhusen4604 4 ай бұрын

Its a well made Video, with great display of statics and well researched facts . The consideration of bonus effects is also well thought and good displayed . I just have 1 kinda problem with it, pls dont take it offensive im just more in need off an clarification. Out of my perspective you considered accurency in the earlie levels more as in the later levels for your calculation. I understand the point that you consider the attacker in advantage, but i dont feel like stats as AC and Hit bonis there considered int he right amount for the propobility for landing the attacks. As i sayed pls dont take it offensive, im from germany and my english is not so well maybe i missheard or missunderstood something. Still thx for the video.

@benbalser6768 4 ай бұрын

Issues: 1. Hit Chance: needs to be included in the damage model. 2. Rounding: This is not the place to do it. 4d6 averages 14, not 12 as you suggest. The more dice added, the more inaccurate the math becomes. 3. Savage Attack: Needs to be included for DW builds, if you're including GWM for 2H. Since it adds ~1 per dice (depending on the specific die), and DW's roll a lot of dice. 4. Strength based DW: Can use non-piercing weapons with d10 range, and will get a higher stat based damage bonus, assuming you're using strength elixirs. Assassin may outperform Thief here. 5. Overkill: any damage greater than the life of the target, isn't damage. This is hard to model. 6. Poisons/Damage Riders/Status Effects: In order of difficulty to include in the damage model. 7. Crit Chance: Damage numbers should also be weighted by crit chance. That Gloomstalker will be near it's max possible damage output much more often than that Fighter will be.

@Dorumin 4 ай бұрын

3:30 but they would also get +2 damage from rage, alongside the resistances. Also they might be using reckless attack, making landing hits and crits more likely Regarding crit chances in the crits section, it's worth considering crit chances with advantage over two attacks, as GWM triggers on kills as well as crit hits. And yes, dual crossbow builds are probably the strongest dual wielding in the game. Great analysis

@Turnil321 4 ай бұрын

I'm currently doing a champion crossbow build. It is similar to duel duel-welding hand crossbow build but my main character can use a shield, get the defense fighting style at level 10, and attack using his heavy crossbow 3 times when I get to level 11 (more with other bonuses). Also, the jump bonus I get at level 7 helps to get me on the high ground.

@ironbar2009 4 ай бұрын

Hmm I would’ve liked to see the damage comps using dual hand xbows with two weapon fighting style and sharpshooter with a gloomstalker + thief multiclass. Pretty sure it clears melee builds and doesn’t require investment into 11 levels of fighter to get the third attack per action

@ironbar2009 4 ай бұрын

Also opens up the door for crit builds as you can dual wield dagger of undermountain king and bloodthirst as stat sticks

@magic_cfw 4 ай бұрын

I've felt that the role of two weapon fighting in this game pairs well with mobile, where you stab multiple people instead of fighting a tank. So for example, if your 2H Fighter reduced an enemy to 6 HP, you're not using another 2H to deal 20 damage, with a fair chance of missing. The TWF character instead gets to finish off the enemy, and soften another target for other members to delete. I use this as well with Eldritch Knight to impose disadvantage for any control spell without losing out on melee damage or alternatively drop Eldritch Strike for Thief and have two attacks with my off -hand (such as casting Hold Person then using any off-hand weapon which benefits greatly from advantage or critical hits, such as Vicious Battleaxe).

@arisechicken115 4 ай бұрын

I think the great sword is the superior two-hand weapon because it has two d6 you're rolling so it has the same top end potential as a great Axe but the low end is better. You also benefit more on average from the reroll on great weapon fighting since you're rolling two dice instead of one. War domain cleric at level one is nice as well for getting some more bonus action attacks per long rest.

@d.b.hemlock 4 ай бұрын

Dual Wielding has always been more of a "Stat Proc" fighting style than the Burst/Nova of the Two handed fighting style. You'll have more opportunities to proc a particular effect like poison etc. Using dual wielding than if you're using just a two handed weapon. All that being said, for the case of this game I prefer dueling and using the Duelist Perogative and Bhaalist Armor.

@MCGalaxy30 4 ай бұрын

Extremely nice video, and you bring up most of the important points for the discussion, but just to add onto it some things you have missed: 1) You don't really talk about "% to hit" during the comparison, which obviously skews your damage numbers towards GWM/SS. For a better analysis you should actually take a "target AC" and see how the numbers change (by multiplying the average damage by the odds of hitting). You'll find out that GWM/SS is still better almost always, but there are cases where TWF actually emerges as being slightly better! At least, this is without any magic items and spells. 2) You talk about some ways to mitigate the -5 minus to GWM/SS, but you don't really talk about the best ways to counteract these maluses. The actual reason why they rise so far above anything else in the game (not considering something like a full resource paladin with auto-crit) is that the game just has a plethera of built-in ways make them practically irrelevant. Between the +3 bonus you will have in the late game, many ways to increase your base stats, a couple of really good spells that increase your attack rolls/decrease enemy AC, it's practically trivial to have 90-95% to hit even in the very last few fights of the game against all enemies. It's worth noting that the best ways to increase stats apply to strenght, not dexterity, but it's irrelevant because... 3) You reach the conclusion that dual crossbows is a really good option for people that want the best of both worlds, but you miss the fact that it's just straight up the best option. While it's true that you lack the sheer strenght of legendary items late in the game, the fact that you can make almost always at least 3 attacks in a turn with the +10 to damage PLUS you get the benefits of a shield and melee weapon you wield (which includes some extremely, EXTREMELY, good options) while using your ranged weapons, makes it the best without contender. It doesn't help that the best subclasses for this type of combat style, namely Ranger Gloomstalker and Fighter Battlemaster, are actually best used with ranged weapons because of many synergies.

@missing_links 4 ай бұрын

Depends. Sword bard ranged slashing flourishes make longbows better than 2x crossbows pretty much all game long and hunter ranger volleys kind of invalidate 2x hand crossbow kits at level 11+.

@ttestagr 4 ай бұрын

There are some interesting dual wielding combos that should be considered. Combining other weapons with Harmonic Dueler for example. Especially if you can activate it prior to combat start. Harmonic dueller does a perform check that when passed adds charisma to all melee weapon attacks for 10 turns. Pretty good for dual wielding bards or warlocks. Also dual wielding paladins so you can get more guaranteed divine smites on targets.

@christianaditya8838 9 сағат бұрын

Nice videos

@johnprater3729 4 ай бұрын

The handbow that does force dmg is a beast with sharpshooter. Make sure it's in your main hand.

@Warinx 4 ай бұрын

Was expecting a much deeper analysis, with hitting averages, especially since BG3 is a limited pool of targets, compared to all the DW vs 2H math that is already easily available from D&D

@02091992able 4 ай бұрын

In my playthrough as Lae'zel Minthara managed to two shot me just after I initiated the fight to get her into temporary hostile. She got a double crit and since she is a paladin she double smitted me. I did manage to knock her out with my 3 other characters and did manage to do the trick to recruit her without siding with her.

@austinprevette474 4 ай бұрын

You don't have to toggle dual wield off. Just attack with offhand first and then main hand and it won't auto attack with both.

@johnblack7554 4 ай бұрын

Dual wield Deva Maces while wearing the Luminous Armor. 8 Bear Barb/4 Rogue Thief for 4 attacks per round. You're welcome.

@pokrovskiy1209 4 ай бұрын

Btw you can use a ring to proc sneak attack every time. So it's four sneak attack every turn. And every can crit.

@coelhovinicius140 Ай бұрын

This is the exact video i needed for getting my head around the topic, but unfortunately it didnt touch the subject i was trying to solve! My character is a great old one warlock (to begin with), and the point of it (in combat, at least) is to throroughly abuse hex/bestowCurse, how much would it change the numbers on it? Sure its not going to be the only source of damage, but my conclusion from this video is that a single big weapon would be better by itself while dual wielding has the POTENTIAL of doing something greater if you add effects to the hits be it hex or coating, equipment or whatever else, unfortunately the data on that front wasnt enough. But again, great video! Thanks for it.