As an engineer who loves chess (sucks at it, but loves it), I can tell you Hikaru that Daniil is 100% correct. If the prize money is big enough for a live online chess event, or even an OTB one, investing a percentage of the prize is more than enticing enough to a morally corrupt person. How to cheat is also very easy. A band-aid, placed in a sensitive enough area of your body where you can detect distinct and differentiating signals, could easily go undetected. You don't have to go to technology either. If you know someone who knows someone who is somehow involved in the event, and low enough in the structure to go undetected, that person can be bribed. A random catering staff, for example. That person doesn't have to know anything about chess to put a RasPi, 3M-double sided tape to the bottom of a table or a chair. I'm not saying these things happened, but these are not hard to pull off. There have been more sophisticated heists than this.

hikaru's inability to detect sarcasm, jokes, and irony never disappoints😂❤️

There's only one solution to prevent cheating: play in person, naked in a Faraday cage, after been submitted to an EMP,

Dubov is a great interview … calls it like he sees it and doesn’t weasel around the issue. The offer he made to let the experts try to catch him cheating that was declined speaks volumes. I love hearing intelligent people give interviews!

Hikaru, you just said that only a slight hint that something is off in a position would be enough. If that is the case then Dubov is right, even if you have videocameras on the player/screen/room - the slightest change in their environment from an accomplice would give them the hint needed to study a position a bit more. Silly example; the light is turned on or off in the hallway. Online tourneys are inherently insecure, and there is not much you can do to fix it - if what you and others are claiming is true.

Dubov is very fluent in his speech. probably a very funny guy to hang around with.

I think Dubov is completely right and I love that he doesn't hold back

Dubrovnik is so stylish and funny 😂 “if you let your cat play with stockfish of course he’s going to get caught” 😂😂😂

Dubov sharp as always

My boy Dubov spitting facts

The bathroom comment was not hypothetical. It happened at a Romanian Championship and at a Strasbourg tournament. The Kalashnikov reference was exaggeration for effect.

I like it when people tell you right away how things are and don't waste your time with meaningless statements. Good job Dubov

It is beyond absurd for Hikaru to claim that two cameras is an effective anti-cheating measure. It makes it a little harder, but not by much. There are a myriad of straightforward ways to cheat. I mean, just use a tiny camera pointed at the video screen. You can either have a computer program read the video feed or a helper in another room, then have the moves fed to a device under your clothing. It's really not that hard.

Most wont know how much of advantage you get by just using an evaluation bar. You dont even need to be told what move or line is winning, all you need is validation that your current position is like +3 favored and you will have more confidence in seeking out more decisive plays.

Using Stockfish to cheat: 🤓 Using Martin to cheat: 🗿

Hans was streaming while cheating back in the day and no one on his stream noticed.

You can 100% cheat cameras. In FPS esports, people cheat irl tournaments with special mice that have autoaim built into the mouse itself... There is no real way to control for stuff like that. Online tourneys will always be honor system.

My respect for dubov continues to grow

All you have to do is pick a bot like 200 points ahead and you won’t get caught

me as an uzbek that understands russian and english watched this video and felt absolutely proud

A good friend no longer plays Go with me because he thinks I cheated on a correspondence online game. It’s really sad, and I miss playing games and learning from him.

It was lost in translation kinda, Dubov said for strong players only a message that says "THINK HARD NOW" is enough.

So basically, you don’t have to be fed moves to cheat. Someone just has to tell you that you are winning and that’s it. And this information could be passed on in many ways: eye contact, a smile, or vibrating beads! 🤣

check the indian milionaire rated as 400 who won against vishy anand in a charity match

Hikaru "Facecam and shared screen"... Well two of the OTB cheaters known had morse-code electronics taped to leg and the other inside the shoe. Then a third in Norway with BlueTooth earpiece.

Hikaru's "I'll drink to that" speaks for itself

What Dubov means at 22:00 is you can put measures in play trying to prevent cheating, but they can be easely worked around. For example a camera is only equal to eyes, and maybe the ears. Its not preventing any vibrating morse codes.

Its so easy to cheat in Titled Tuesday or any event where your streaming at home regardless of cameras. All you need is someone in another room that is screen sharing and evaluating your games in real time and transmitting a few moves via whatever you want. Bone conductor headphones or any other creative method.

Also I want to add that the integrity of online chess for the regular person died a really long time ago. Honestly, the GMs are the only ones probably playing the game fair anymore. The cheaters are everywhere and at every rank. And Dubov makes this point too... that its the blatant idiot cheaters that get caught by using engine moves every move. But there is nothing stopping you from just cross checking your moves with an engine to make sure ur not blundering. You don't have to play the best move for it to still be considered cheating.

Dubov's point to old engines versus new ones is a bit baised but not in the way Hikaru thinks it is: The point is, that for a lot of games and situations in games, their best move candidates are often still similar to the ones from modern chess engines. Back in 2005, the best engines were already able to calculate insane deep tactics, depending on the position. Some chess cheating check protocols do not simply check for engine decision correlations, they also calculate the probability for a human player with a for the engine known playing history and strength to produce such an outcome.

The bottom line is that a spectator can just raise their hand whenever there is a critical move. They just need one mini electric shock whenever there is a critical move. The only way to secure it is to have no live spectators

Are we just ignoring the fact that Dubov literally hasn't aged?

~17:15 I think they could be attempting to make a sample set to analyze cheaters/verify that they're not getting false positives. If you get confirmation that your guess is correct, that can be very meaningful. Obviously it's not great short term, but could be fantastic for the long term. If you're into data analysis at all, you'll know how crucial even a small set of labeled data is to current training techniques in ML.

Nothing out there about what Dubov is saying, just super blunt and to the point which is a great trait to have imo. No sugar coating.

Hikaru does not realise how easy it is to trick the cameras in the room. Just one example: one can hide a pinpoint camera in some decoration on a shelf behind the player (in the eyes of a stuffed toy or smth, undetectable by any camera no matter how good) . This delivers the view on the screen to a partner in an adjacent room, thus of course also circumventing any attempts at broadcast delay as the partner does not even need the broadcast. The partner then delivers hints back to the player by either just knocking on the wall or if the cameras pick up sound, a more complicated electrical feedback in the shoes or whatever. Not hard to do if dedicated. Not only does this method renders in-room cameras useless. This even works if an arbiter is sent to players homes like in the CCT a couple years ago. This is just one example among many. The threat is as real as dubov says it is.

A warning that there is a winning move would only be enough for a top player to beat other top players statistically. How about a blunder warning bot instead, that marks all moves that lose more than a set threshold? That would also be inconspicuous, but be enough for 2nd and 3rd level players to romp.

He is not saying that you trick the camera, but you are preparing your own room before the tournament and you can make some setup that will not be seen on camera

I think the issue is at the level of play for GMs cheating could simply be as simple as having something to just indicate, winning or not winning. This is simple information is sufficient for most GMs. Hence even someone in the audience that makes a pre-agreed move to indicate winning can be implemented in over the board chess. I is interesting though.

the interview is very very good and dubov has some great points, unfortunately there is nothing you can against cheating, even in offline tournaments. Someone who is dedicated enough could cheat for years undetected even though he never really wins it all by winning the tounrament he plays in, even finishing second in a tournament can pay off. Only true idiots would get caught cheating

“You can sense there is something off.” Yes, this is exactly what I feel at my level of 1600. There are so many people cheating that I am not able to advance my rating. I get people who are 1300 playing like they are 2000. Really frustrating.

He’s right. Honestly can you tell me with any confidence that a GM could use an engine in a critical position ONCE every three or four games and ever get caught? Or even once every game, in a critical position where you have say two candidate moves and want to know which to play? There is just no way to police that.

New Zealander here, we are well aware that we are one of the most isolated places in the world. I didn't take offence any more than a Russian would take offense at me saying that their weather is shit.

End with a jab at hans 😂😂😂

So he is saying that you only need something like a vibrator that tells you when an opportunity is on the board and gg, interesting, this methods go very deep.

At around the 14 minute marks he is very right. Hans' progress has been monitored and all the numbers don't add up at all compared to other GM's. I find it unreal this guy even has the right to play ANY chess , whether OTB or online after 100+ confirmed times he cheated. He can deny as much as he wants but as we say " Men lies, number's don't" he can't disprove with words what the statistics about his games are saying. Beyond me that this guy is still allowed any chess.

you are wrong, dubov lives in moscow, he says so in that interview

Dubov being a straight savage

Strong chess players don't need the moves. They only need one signal. To alert them that their opponent played a bad move. Well, ideally, strong players would need 2 signals. The second signal is for situations where they are in a position where only one move doesn't lose.

There maybe 2 cameras in the room watching the monitors but I'm not sure it'd be overly hard to have someone in another room talking via the headphones everyone is wearing...

A single vibration(notifying the player to think extra hard) per game is enough to gain substantial advantage. Seems extremely easy to cheat

21:50 This is absolutely NOT insane, Hikaru! It happens everywhere, even at security convetions and meetings themselves. That's daily reality.

Sad that nobody wants a fair duel.

This is the main reason I didnt pick up chess and play other video games with actual anti-cheats. But I suck too much to be consider a cheater in chess so I now play.

1 month later: Hikaru himself got accused of cheating

honestly, online there is no way you can catch a cheater that only cheats on a few moves each game... Even if there are cameras pointing at the person, could just transmit morse code to your leg or something like that.

The thing about "deep learning" algorithms is that they need to be fed data. If games with cheating continue to get fed into the program as normal games, eventually cheating just becomes normal and the algorithm is just stupefied.

A screen with a parallax barrier emits two different images (typically used for 3D effects from a single screen). It's not inconceivable that you could set something up so that the camera sees one thing and the person in the chair sees something else.

It's not impossible to cheat cameras, it's quite easy. Thats why I won't play the USCF zoom tourneys. You could have someone in a separate room feeding you moves, via earpiece, or even que cards. Its way to easy.

But Topalov was accused exactly with Godfather style toilet cheating....

I completely agree with Dubov. A certain chess qebsite would have us think that cheating barely happens. I can' remember the percentage that they published under the "just trust me" source but it ws something like 0.3%. Dont quote that number.

Dubov is 1000% correct about cheating destroying online chess. It's become trivial for even bad players to avoid detection by playing offbeat openings and not taking the strongest move in Stockfish every time. I have found it absolutely trivial to win arena tournaments with alt sandbagger accounts. Arenas in particular are a hotbed of scumbags trying to scam tournament wins or cheat. And the people who should fix it wind up, for whatever reason, denying the problem exists. Good for Dubov for telling it like it is.

I bet millions would watch you vs Magnus 6 games, 3 of which you get a “single hint cheat” and 3 where he gets a single hint just to see if you both end up winning your cheat games

You would probably need a few super GMs to just play a lot of games where they cheat say 25% of the games and keep track of it. This would allow for a dataset to train their cheat detection on. Would require the GMs to take it really seriously so probably some money prize for every wrong guess would be warranted.

On a 150 m away toilet... Dubov probably meant in RF 20-25% toilets are outdoors.

The funny thing about "but he was so young back then" is that it's only a couple of years ago. The gap between now and the last admitted cheating is smaller than between the first and second time he admitted cheating.

I am convinced the tiniest detail from a computer would create a massive advantage for top players. Bridge is not chess, but I recall a pair of bridge cheaters a long time ago that used a very simple cheat of holding their cards differently based on whether or not one of their suits had an even number of cards or not. It's not a detail that in and of itself allows anyone to win, but in the right hands tilted the odds in their favor quite noticeably. If nobody has cheated using devices/communication before, surely someone will try it after all of the focus on it of late.

@gmhikaru I have an idea, if you play blind i.e. you don't know who the opponent is or their rating in titled Tuesday, if someone cheats vs a Hikaru and they win as a 2150, it will be exposed very quickly.

4:30 its' not only engines. If you have a smallest understanding of programming you can go into the engine code and switch some numbers to create a new unique behaviour. There are always constants-parameters, which you can change by random value.

28:30 im totally agree about that. And the fact he is with his lawyer it also says something

Great video Hikaru! But it would have been nice though to use the position that Magnus Carlsen refered to from the actual game between Carlsen and Niemann. In his statement Carlsen pointed out that he felt that Niemann quite quickly played his move in a complicated game changing key position. That obviously only bears two rational explanations, a) to Niemann it was a simple position easily calculated regardless of that Worlds greatest player ever would need time to calculate the position. Wait hang on that isn’t really a viable explanation for quite apparent reasons. b) Niemann used an engine capable of delivering an answer in no time over the board, or used an engine prior to the game being played to suggest best response, but obviously would mean that Niemann had acces to Carlsen preparations and already knew what line Carlsen would play. In an interview after the game Niemann said that he had actually looked in to this scarce opening only played once ever before by Carlsen, and by looking into I believe everybody understands that that means crunching numbers with an engine to find a killer respons. Quite the time consuming job and a completely irrational way to waste valuable preparational time on a scarce and unlikely openingfrom Carlsen unless.. Well.. yeah.. Unless you actually know that Carlsen intends to play this opening. That of course would explain everything..

No measure exists to prevent cheating in online play from homes. Very obvious. Only offline play with advanced scanning and radio jamming can prevent cheating. Not necessarily wooden boards. It can be dedicated computers or tablets in dedicated and secured spaces

Everything else aside, I think a Cheaters' t Tournament would be a potentially interesting thing to do - get good players and give them ability to see what the best move is/show them evaluation bar once per game. If you want to prove a point rather than just watch the fireworks, you could only give the advantage to one side at a time or something.

I played on Lichess, and have a rapid rating of 2100 (just another noob). I believe 1/5 games the players are cheating. It's disgusting and made don't want to play chess any more.

The issue with the older engines for cheaters is that, yes, they don't play the best move by today's standards but their play is very computer like. The engines to day have a big positional understanding and

12:30 tricking the camera is very easy. just take a part of the wall in you room, for example - any fixed object, replace part of the video by a photo. and then you can put an "invisible" screen with engine there. That's it.

Dubov is correct in general. I can suggest at least 10 different ways a player can cheat in online events similar to magnus chess tour. One just has to be motivated enough to try. Absolute yop players mostly play on good faith, as they have little motivation to cheat.

Yeah, Dubov and Morozevich had a conversation about Nakamura' might be a cheater

For me the issue is what the buy in to cheat a tiny bit is, because if someone does it once and gets away with it then it escalates to being a real problem. Just like people who cheat on their partners, shoplift or lie.

Cheating has ruined the game...i dont enjoy online chess at all anymore. It is utterly pointless...at every level. From beginner to top.

1:00 they are not talking about possibility of catching cheaters in that bit. The question was (rephrased) "do you think chess as a game is in danger?" and Dubov replies "300% in danger" and then adds that online chess is not only threatened but it now simply relies on good faith.

Hydra was a many headed monster in Greek Mythology, and that's where the name comes from.

The last thing Hiraku said in this video tho lol.

If I was going to cheat at chess, I would think it's best to come up with a single method that works for both OTB and online. Tiny earpieces or vibrating signals would still be viable in online tournaments. The countermeasures to that would be removing all broadcasts of the event but then there are methods to set up spy cameras ahead of time so your assistant could still have live eyes on the board. I think they honestly need to open up a cheaters chess division where the goal is to come up with the best cheating methods. Might be the best way to counteract actual cheating.

"Dubov has been watching too much of a Godfather or something like that" - Hikaru

14:14 'The words speak for themselves.'

It's not the angry reaction, it was "the chess speaks for itself" and running away that looked really fishy.

28:44 Lance Armstrong *also* tried to sue his initial accusers...

As a Russian viewer I see this as an absolute win

at 6:19 That's why we spectators can look at the eval bar and questions why super GMs make blunders. Cos we are looking at the eval bar.

The method described looks for variances in best moves and worst moves and how often they occur. Sadly, it seems like they believe a person does not have potential to become better and make less mistakes or make better moves. It also leaves room for initial error as the pkayer can just start out cheating and the only data you have collected would then be used to figure out future deviation, but there likely won't be.

i think he's totally right about them not trusting the algorithm. You need to train an algorithm and you can't do that without knowing your data is true or false. if you suspect cheating and the player confesses, that's very valuable data. it's confirmed cases of cheating in actual games. There's no better data to train your algorithm on. This way also ensure's the algorithm continues to evolve.

I mean in online tournaments you can literally just use stockfish with t2s and no screenrecording will catch you.

i just started laughing when he said "maybe not just in the shoe"

"it's technically possible to beat Mugnus". Technically possible. Made me do a literal lol.

Just stick to bullet online and do a cavity search on anyone over the board. Problem solved 😂

"When elementary schools manage to administer every test in a proctored room with cameras and supervisors, yet we still can't figure out why chess matches with such big prize money are casually left to the whims of online play from one's couch." 🙄

Are the online tournaments real time? Or is there a delay there too? If someone can watch the game live, seems like they could somehow send a signal, given all you need to know is “this is a critical moment.” Surely there’d be some way to signal that which would be hard to detect.

Like Kramnik, Dubov makes a lot of good points. Not sure about your analogy with strong junior players though, when at least 4 former world junior champions have been known to cheat online...

Does GM's use computers and AI for simulation purposes. So, computer like moves, would happen more often because of GMs are practicing with the programs.

Uhhh guys, the last swing. I loved it.