The fact that we needed 40 minutes to explain why creating art of a 5th grader getting railed is bad and wrong says more than I ever could

What they say about vent art is very true in my experience. I have drawn lots of vent pieces expressing my childhood trauma and I WOULD NEVER ever post that on the internet or even share that with a close friend or family. It was a very personal piece and it would kill my soul if I saw it circulating on the internet.

I cannot believe that "don't sexualize children" is a controversial topic online... Edit: it doesn't matter if they're fictional, IT'S STILL DISGUSTING. All it shows is that you'd do this to real children if you thought you could get away with it.

A child’s innocence should be preserved, not perversed.

extremely off topic, but i love the decora illustration being made in the background.

*Don't Go to Comment Section, Biggest Mistake of my Life.*

I got an ad about censorship from PragerU and laughed so fucking hard

This is something that is a bit confusing to say and phrase, but bear with me as I go into it. I know you address your personal thoughts on this and said this is not the subject matter at hand. For the record, I don't like anything to do with shot@ and lolicon. This is more or less, is not talking about the "morale" standpoint these things have and more of a technical "okay, so how are we gonna enforce this?". NOTE, I AM LOOKING AT USA LAW HERE REGARDING THIS STUFF. This is where stuff gets REALLY dicey. Again, ignoring the psychological implications of things and effects, how can such things be quantified? How can organizations such as the FBI surely strike down things as CP? People argue that liking Uzaki-Chan makes you p#d0 inclined. However, the argument that she "looks like a child", when her facial features (and frankly, so many other anime characters in this context) have crossed beyond realism into abstract representations of ideas, is...very shaky. One could argue that your restyle, or any "anime" style, based on body proportions alone, could be under suspicion. Saying a woman with a flat chest and big eyes is a child in drawn media also has some degrading implications to petite women, IRL, but that's a whole different can of worms. It hinges on the narrative "they look x, so they are x". And I'm not talking about the 2000 year demi-human types who are portrayed as small children for their universe . Right now, in America, such things that come to mind as l*** or sh***con (sexualizing Kana from Kobayashi Dragonmaid, Alois and Ceil from BB, that "flavor" of things) cannot be considered CP/child abuse materials under America's PROTECT act and other acts like it, and are only potentially up for obscenity charges. Stuff gets even more complicated when you think of stuff as "Lucky Star". There isn't much difference between the characters who are seniors in high school, and the drawn adults in the series. Due to the style being so intensely "Moe", do you over ride and say that all the characters "look like children", and sexualizing characters from said media should be more heavily prosecuted? When is perceived age and behavior outweighed by appearance? It's like when someone draws a neon green tiger-furry and sexualizes it. Do we consider this bestiality legally? is attraction to this extremely-mascoty cartoonish anthromoph even in the same league as someone having sexual desires focused towards an IRL animal? You can absolutely be upset and concerned over more than issue at once. But I'm more or less tossing out the legal classification issues of things. If one can say " because of how an artist chose to depict x drawing, and has feelings sexual attraction towards x drawing that looks nothing like any sort of human, and is only "human" on the grounds of it being representative of said "human", means that someone is attracted to an IRL human who looks nothing like said concept x drawing is depicting", what would make x different from y case? It's like, is someone partaking in be@stiality because they experience sexual attraction to Sonic the hedgehog ? Is someone a p*d0 because they experience aforementioned attraction Characters from Lucky star, and while within Lucky star's universe they look age appropriate, in a different medium they would be the equivalent of "children"? This is why this is such a crazy issue. Where do we draw lines? It's sadly so subjective that it's hard to speak about things and not be walking on eggshells. Nearly everyone agrees that CP is bad, people who enjoy it are bad, etc. However, getting down to actually classifying stuff like this is.....difficult, without stepping on someone's toes.

I feel like a lot of defensive arguments comes from the fact that people would consider different things as loli/shota, like how some people would consider younger looking but adult characters (ie venti or gorou from genshin) as shota and also group them together with kanna from miss kobayashi's, then others who would only consider kanna to be a loli. Where as in one situation the characters could be seen as adults within the style of the game and the other could only be seen as a child, this creates an miscommunication where the people who enjoy the former but not the latter gets defensive over their interests. Also I'd like to point out there might be those who enjoy loli/shotacon cuz they see themselves in the position of the younger characters, granted i'm usually one to avoid that kinda content so i could only speculate since i know when it comes to things such as noncon or other sexual fantasies there would be those wanting to be on the receiving end. edit: also as a side note I think it'd be better to focus on educating people interms of how to interact with such topics rather then finding a way to get rid of all of them since trying to censor stuff (although nice in theory) leads to the question of who that responsibility goes to and if they have ulterior motives or not whereas education is more realistic. This is more from personal experience i suppose since even though i've been on the internet since i was like 9 and also was exposed to stuff that i shouldn't have, knowing that those things aren't the norm and shouldn't be treated as such helped. Granted I was still a child and was influenced negatively but on the bright side i was able to tell when someone was being a creep on the few occasions it happened. Great video, probably one of the most indepth on these topics i've seen in awhile, just wanted to add my thoughts.

Genuinely don't understand why "hey , maybe we shouldn't s3xualize characters who look , sound and act like kids and have been confirmed to BE kids" is such a controversial opinion 💀💀💀 Like... Kids aren't supposed to be the object of some er0tic fantasy. Yes , l0licon isn't as bad as the real thing and it shouldn't be held to the same degree as real offenses , but that doesn't mean its any less disgusting. You can be invested in two issues at once. The "fiction can affect reality" argument DOESN'T mean "Fiction IS reality" its "Fiction is entirely separate from reality but it can impact it". It's why incredibly offensive caricatures of minorities are obviously bad despite it being just art. My entire take on this is just "Fiction is fiction and it should STAY fiction , but that doesn't mean it exists in a vacuum and can't have an impact on someone , whether positive or negative"

edit 3: man people really missing the point along with that some yall are downplaying the serious meaning of the word pedophile to drawing, which benefits predators more. the comments and this video are not helping. -csa survivor edit 2: people still missing the point, please prioritize irl pdos and help real victims instead of pixels on the screen. Edit: haiya some of you missed the point. If the character is cannonically a child despite how they look (legit thought Jotaro from JJBA part 3 was an adult), then by all means they are a child. Even if they are to be like 1000+ years in their species age but are said to be a child in human age THEN BY ALL MEANS THEY ARE A CHILD. What I’m complaining abt here is that people are body shaming actual petite/asian adult either by their height, appearance or how they act. Which despite that they are still adults. I’m honestly disgusted with some people in the comments. “If they look like a child-“ but ARE they a child? If you think someone is a child because of their height and/or appearance u just invalidated petite adults and asian adults. I’m a 5’6 asian and that’s already considered tall in Asian standards. So great! Add body shaming in the comments too.

There shouldn't even be a "here's why". People thinking it's ok are just disgusting.

"that type of media reassured *him* that it was okay" what? you mean it wasn't the other way around; that he used IT to convince you that it was okay? i have heard this argument before but it was in this way

I feel like when people use the “fiction doesn’t affect reality” they’re thinking that fiction doesn’t affect reality DIRECTLY. Fiction does not affect reality directly, but indirectly. Creating a piece of work will not affect reality immediately. What does happen though is that it can influence how people think and behave. If people were to witness a lot of whitewashing art and nobody told them it was wrong, many people will believe it is okay. The same thing can apply l*licon art or whatever. And if people are told that it is okay they are more likely to defend it. A perfect example is Jaws. Since the movie was created I think we can all agree people have been more afraid of sharks, despite many scientists saying sharks are unlikely to attack humans without cause. People need to focus their attention on not the immediate effects but the long-term of being exposed to this kind of art. What it can do the mind. And of course you the artist’s and others comments can affect the mind as well. Maybe viewing won’t turn you into a p*do at first but exposing yourself to it over a long period of time could. But we don’t know as the topic is very deep and hardly studied.

I'm 5'1 and am never getting any taller, I also have a baby/child-like face which makes people assume I am WAY younger than I actually am. Lølicøn and shøt@cøn are VERY hurtful to especially children, but also to short adults or generally shorter people. I'm not yet an adult, though I'm not far from, but people assuming I'm younger means worse when it comes to *those* situations because they don't assume I'm short, they assume I'm 8-12. That type of content is hurtful to a lot of people and while I don't mean this as ignoring how hurtful it is to children, it hurts shorter people too by depicting adults in a child-like but sexual manner and normalizing it. Don't sexualize children, and don't sexualize people *for* looking like children or "childish". (Sorry if I didn't word this properly, I'm not good at explaining things in the proper way that I want to)

I will add... there are psychiatrists who work with MAPs.. one of which did a reddit AMA. He was asked about his views on loli.... and he straight up said it was "cartoon CP"... he was NOT okay with it. It was something he obviously saw used consistently among the people he dealt with...

Honestly for people using the argument "I use this to cope and my therapist said it was fine" go ahead, do it. Doesn't mean you should post it publicly for everyone to see and find easily. At least tag it or post it on a private account. Not everybody wants to see this and if you want people to be more accepting of it, some of yall maybe need to stop pushing it in everyone's face from time to time.

As a grown ass man, when I scroll through sites like twitter and see loli crap ... I am NATURALLY repulsed. It feels biological. It feels instinctual and programmed into my very DNA to be repulsed and pissed off when I see that. It's revolting. Anyone /defending it/ needs to seek help, before they hurt someone.

The fact that people have to actually say being a nonce is wrong just amazes me

One of the things I realized as I got older was questioning *what* I was beating it to. Not the subject, but what the subject was and was not. I.e. does it matter these people have these genders, skin tones, bmi index, etc. Am I less satisfied without the initial context? Am I gaining satisfaction within specific settings and scenarios? Long story short, I realized a *lot* of what i consumed wasnt what i wanted but what there at the time

shout out to my groomer who used lolicon to convince me it was okay for us to be in a relationship and even had it drawn of us.

Sounds to me like it's a "person by person basis, based solely on the psychology of a singular person and how they consume media and think about things" you can't group people into one side or the other, each individual person is in its own way it's own unique group and case. Every single person is different, reacts differently, consumes different and thinks different. No doctor or psychologist or twitter user or anyone can study people as a collective, only as individuals. Correct?

Okay kinda off topic but I was wondering. If a person who is a minor has a crush on a fictional character who is also a minor, but said person grows up but the character doesn’t is still bad that they’ve had/have a crush on that fictional character ? Like if the person recently turned 17 or 18

anyone have a free version of the fictive imagining article? i’d like to read the full thing but i am not paying money to do it

I will just say that loli spreads a message that I don't agree with and I wont support it the same way I wont support racism/sexism/homophobia/ etc.

Firstly I have to clarify i dont like loli in any sexual way. This video has some points and many counter arguments like when you bring up violent video games and say they don't make violent people because they exist outside of that space beforehand by that logic you use for people and loli can be argued by the fact other forms of art exist for example there is art of characters being decapitated and people using the throat of this headless person for pleasure in very violent art is this passable because of violence being something that a person has to actively be indulged with because that's who they are or is it the latter just like with loli these people are always violent person inherently and are seeking out something out of this art because they want to do it. My answer no because art is fiction I can see people using it for unsavory reasons However that applies to all art which I need to address does art need to be censored the answer is obvious No because no one ever argues art with non consent is allowing people to do that to real women, the same can be said with your Marley and me comparison a movie and art all defy logic or fit into the box of it but never should be seen as the end all be all of something that's as far as I want to take this, the reason is people when talking about this topic diminish real people's struggles because of the possibility people will use this form of fiction for real crimes but here's from the words of a real person who's had a adult do unsavory things to them as a minor it's awful and trying to go that this can be seen as the same or anywhere close to the real thing or endorse it makes me sick to my stomach also a quick reminder Artist do that art because some are desperate or there's a market for it because there's a market for it basically no matter what happens this argument against something I agree is bad isn't black and white.

Am I the only one who read the thumbnail as " Lincoln is never okay"?

was the video mentioned at 27:00 linked anywhere I can't find it??

One thing I was concerned about in this video was the terminologie, which I very happy to see being clarified "lolicon" here being used as a blanket term for obvious pedophilia is important. The "loli" terminologie is the japanese term that describe child-like body types, which I insist on this notion. An example of a fictional character that falls in this category would rebbeca from the recent cyberpunk anime show. However, the problem arise when people draw actual children in sexual manners and use the term to protec themselves, or out of denial. Honestly I was curious about where would lie the difference, and actual loli characters that represent a body type and whatever the fuck else exist is indeed widly different. Loli refers to a petite body type, but it's important to be able to identify when the term is used to protect actual pedophilia if I make my point clear. A good aproach on the subject and it's nice to see someone actually clarify the vocabulary used for once.

Imo, art that is meant to hatefully target an innocent individual or community should not be allowed as well (for example, art depicting racism as a good thing, or explicit art of people who didnt consent). For me personally, i think all nsfw art should be at least warned about or be put behind an 18+ restriction, as many people on the internet are minors, or adults who would very much prefer not to see that kind of stuff.

I don’t like loli/shota art but there are very valid arguments people are bringing up. Like the video game comparison you made is very hypocritical. You can’t say violent video games have no effect on reality then turn around and get mad at some art? One of the worst things you can do to a human is murder them but the media that displays that is fine because you like it???

I dont understand how so many comments are genuinely defending loli and shota, no matter your stance i feel like it should be widely understood that there is something very morally wrong with its contents.

i thought not sexualising images of what is visibly a child's body was basic decency, why are people arguing in the comments

Question why did you hide the identity of the professional therapist if they are a professional their identity should not be hitting sense identity will be available to the public anyway but doing that it just looks like you playing the part of professional

I have some insight on this issue as a minor myself. It is utterly disgusting and does genuinely make me feel unsafe just knowing that it exists. I hate that people say that this type of art existing doesn't hurt real minors, because it does. its just gross to me that people make and consume l*licon and sh*tocon. its just gross.

I....Don't know how to feel about this.....It's as if some of the artist whom are in their 20s feel like their dumped into this list. Like, what if a 20 yr old wants to draw characters like Deku in a certain way but clearly don't find attraction in their age but their more mature looking features? Like, I truly couldn't tell where the lines were through this video. So is it okay to draw what we want so long as there is a filter on certain not safe pieces or not??? I feel like Ponder I understood more so thankfully you linked her video but I'm unsure of this explanation.

I’m a grown adult and look 13 years old. I probably will never get another person to date me etc because I’ve been told too many times I look way too young and “look illegal” and it’s made me not want to be with another person at all. Another thing, this video makes me not want to think that Riku from kingdom hearts is good looking and it’s making me not want to make fan art of my oc with Riku. I really want someone to tell me it’s okay or explain why it’s not…

Will it be okay if I can use this video for constructive criticism in a Response? I agree to some of your points however I can't help but wonder about the biases that is sprinkled throughout it. I don't like furry but I don't think they are all potential animal abusers

I can 100% relate to this, as a kid when I first learned about some things I was a little worried but it didn't change anything about my life, unfortunately, some media changed that and made me think about it more in a wrong way. I don't think that way anymore but it defiantly changed how I view things so I can agree that children can be influenced by bad media.

It is a very complicated matter, one that still has no solid evidence in favor for either sides. It is fine to dislike it, but I also believe it's wrong to condemn and limit the artist that create such artwork because of it.

hey, could you use lower pitch noise for you sensoring next time you make a vid like this? it hurts my ears.

As a younger aged viewer of this I understand all of these arguments and find this kind of art gross, mainly when drawn by adults. Yet what if the artist in question a child. I know that children should not watch or look at NSFW art. But personals some kids go down rabbit holes that make or open them up to see such art. What art I mean is adult art with adults and may look at that and see a chance to draw art of a character of younger age and ship it with a different young character and see it as fun and not morally wrong since such artists is that age themselves. They may also have a oc that is a adult that they see as them in their art even though they’re a child and may ship themselves with characters of there real age and not know that it is wrong. In tern drawings NSFW art of a younger person or creature and not see it as wrong or wrong To show the world. I do not support adults drawing NSFW kids just because kids but I am not sure about the morality of a child drawing such art just because the character is there age

25:25 I want to start this off by saying I do not support Lolicon in anyway, But this "research" is having me a little concerned. This wording in this person's paper seems to suggest you can "change" one's sexual desires if they just don't see it or never engage with it. Does this not also suggest gay people can "change" who they're attracted to? LGBT+ people cannot change their attraction no matter how little they try to engage with it, and we know that repressing attraction could have adverse affects on one's mental health and how they behave with others. I AM NOT SAYING P*DOS SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO ACT ON THEIR DESIRES OR THAT THEIR ATTRACTION IS ACCCEPTABLE IN THE WAY THAT LGBT+ ATTRACTION IS ACCEPTABLE. I am simply pointing out that there have been many people who are sexually attracted to children who admit that it is not something they can control. This does not make them part of the LGBT+ community as LGBT+ people can consent to activity with each other while a minor cannot, but that also does not mean that P*dos can just stop being p*dos if they don't think about it/see it/engage with it. But as you said, I don't think that engaging in that attraction fictionally is ok even if it isn't as bad as ACTUALLY doing it. Simply put or TLDR; I agree with your take but this paper is worded in a way that it can be misconstrued as suggesting a solution to wrongful sexual attraction could be to "reward not thinking about it," which is also the premise of conversion camps which we all know does not actually suppress any sexual attraction and can actually lead to someone being more likely to let it out in unhealthy ways. It unintentionally promotes homophobic ideas about attraction and I think perhaps it would be better to just explain why it's wrong or leave their solution out since I don't think it would actually help protect minors or stop p*dos from having these fantasies.

The only adults that are allowed to love a child are:parents/guardians, family, family friends and people who offen interact with the children because of the parents, like babysitters

I'll preface all of this by saying that I haven't watched the video before saying any of this. Which yes, is something I should be doing, but I felt as if I needed to get this off my chest. Almost entirely, I would agree with the general internet opinion of lolicon, but there's one problem I have with the "lolicon is cp" train of though. It is body shaming. The women in my life are all of varying heights and have varying bust sizes, but likening a fictional cartoon character with these "child like" attributes is ignoring the very real adults with this body type. If the character is intended to be a child, that's a different story. But if they are an adult, there is no reason we should be- intentionally or not, putting down women who are short with smaller chests. I've talked to some of my friends with this body type and they've expressed that this idea makes them feel like they're unworthy of being loved in that way because of something they can't control. Their genetics. I just think that this is something we should think about, especially because the people being hurt by this idea are not real children (since the character aren't real anyway) but the women who are being told they're a children.

My dad’s past brother (he’s still alive, we just wish he wasn’t) is/was a p3d0/r@p1$t, or somewhere around that spectrum. Then my sister’s bf is a victim of r@p3 when he was a child. My sister’s bf had a terrible childhood, but that was one of the many things, he is now dis functional and can’t work straight. While my father’s “realitive” also had a bad childhood with my grandpa being physically abusive to everybody in his family. My dad one said he remembered my grandma on the floor, blood on his father’s hands, and a pie on the roof. Not saying that he had reason to do what he did, he still should suffer (in my opinion), but abuse can cause somebody to be messed up in the head, it could’ve been one time, it could’ve been many, their life can change, their brain can scramble, they can repeat the cycle of abuse.

This is the best video/essay I have seen covering this topic. Thank you.

Honestly that type of content is exactly why most, if not all of my characters I share publicly are either adults, very close to being adults or age undefined. I don't want to risk anyone looking at any of my characters in a s*ual manner just because of their age. Some of my characters are a form of venting in themselves and I'd hate for anything to be made of them that didn't fit with their character traits.

To the people that believe "fiction doesn't affect reality, you can do whatever you want" here's one thing that completely destroys that argument. If that's the case, then that means black face is okay to draw, that means cartoons that depict or have minority groups shown in a poor light do no harm, that means people can fetishize a whole race or stereotype as long as it stays in the realm of fiction -- By agreeing with the "fiction doesn't affect reality" argument, you are inherently supporting the idea of racism, sexism, ageism, animal abuse and abuse in general being made out to be okay, classism, lgbtphobia and much more. Y'all wanna be racist pedo defenders? Aight, then don't be surprised when you end up in prison, cause fun fact-- art depicting children in lewd situations is actually illegal-- like actually illegal -- why do you think discord has that new rule?

The fact that thisis supposed to be the bad opinion is CRAZY

The real question is where do we draw the line and why? What if you swap the child out for a short petite adult who some say resembles a child? The image would be largely the same but ageing up the character makes it perfectly legal and ok. It doesn't make sense to me that one would do harm while the other would not.

I agree with most of your points, but what you said about the moralization of fantasizing about illegal behavior sounds a lot like the thought police of 1984.

Is fiction and I personally think that art shouldn't be censored in any way, as much, put a trigger warning. Why we have to censor loli art and shota art when we don't censor violence and other kind of things: Gore, suicide.... As always you don't hurt anyone real, shouldn't be censored, sometimes art is the way to express the dark inside us (Because everyone have dark thoughts, even the most kind and good looking person) also can portrait the opposite, the light inside us. People enjoying that is not necessary bad or having those kind of thoughts. Indeed never meet someone that's enjoy Loli that looks real children like something sexualy appealing. But sadly I lived the opposite... in my own self. We need to stop being the Internet judges of everything, because we are limiting culture, also we are limiting people creativity. In this strange time, some people aim to cancel even stories that depict toxic relationships or unhealthy lives, and personally I disagree with that. Even when I personally enjoy sweet and cute relationships in media, I can enjoy a toxic one and know myself that is a toxic one, an unhealthy one that's not ok. We do not need to censor everything we don't like, we just can ignore? Many little girls are married with older man in some asian and African countries, Why not focus on it? That's real, totally real. Art is not :D

Great to hear your thoughts on this subject, and lovely art as always

I have a friend who is a victim of csa and confessed to me a while ago that they looked at this kind of thing a lot when they were 13-14 as a sort of coping mechanism. They have since worked it out in therapy and no longer look at it but are very ashamed of the whole thing. I'm honestly just so unsure of what to think, I feel so bad for them but it seems so gross to me.

⚠️Ok first I don't like sexual art ⚠️and I think child like 16-17 and below is very wrong. But what if a 16yo made sexual art of a fictional 16yo. I am just genuinely curious, because if they are the same age is that an exception or is all art like that wrong regardless of age?

Apologies but I noticed that there was an audio error in 22:32

I agree with everything in this video but then there are the people who dont look into context more and immediately assume its l*licon,cp, p*dophilla, ect. Before you read further please be aware that this isnt defending l*licon/cp/ ect. This is explaining why people need context of what the pic is actually about instead just immediately assuming its everything of whats listed beacuse its a child or a teen (in this im talking about artworks where characters 13 and older being drawn in swimsuits/ bathing suits such as bikinis, speedos ect.) im gonna talk about when people start pointing fingers and possibly damage a career i was accused of "sexulizing minors" so basically i have a character who is 17 years old and i created a summer artwork of him in a speedo(not in a sexual way he was just smiling and waving) and the people said i was sexulizing him and then i got another batch of hate beacuse i was when i posted a comic strip of the same charecter with his boyfriend and then the boyfriend's dad playfully flirts with his son's boyfriend(not in that gross way but in a playful platonic way to rile up his son) and then said i supported grooming and p*dophilla i kinda think people need to look into the facts and context(context is everything) before pointing fingers and giving people career destroying labels Im terriblely sorry if this sound confusing but if you don't understand what im trying to say is: Context matters before labeling and condemning others. Like if a child is being drawn n*ked, being railed and other 18+ things thats definitely l*licon, p*dophilla, cp ect. However a darwing a teen in a speedo/bikini is not l*licon, p*dophilla, cp ect. Again context is everything and that we should separate whats ACTUALLY lolicon and what's not I really hope this made sense 😅

This is the best video and opinion in general I've seen/heard against lolicon, but I still think I can change your mind on at least some things if not the subject as a whole. While I may agree with you that it is ethically wrong, censoring isn't the way to deal with it due to the repercussions that censorship in general can cause. A lot of people aren't as well informed as you are about the nuances of this subject and they can be lost on many as well. For example, an artist on Patreon got removed from their site for their above age characters looking underaged (in this case they were canonically actual adults with the mental capacity to consent). This was due to the facial proportions of anime and also some elements of their style resembling children more than adults (big head, big eyes, etc). I know that unbias courts can be pretty accurate if given time (though those can be rare for emotionally charged subjects like this) that still leads me to my second point in this argument. The general public's perception on censorship, and the power given to people with political positions that the new perception causes. This is more theoretic and involves predictions of the future based partly on the same logic as the Patreon example, but lets say that lolicon is banned to protect minors. Well with banning fictional content being on the table, the next thing to be banned could be racist content (can include vent art), or whatever other emotionally charged content you want to replace that example with. Eventually we'll be in a world with severe limits to our freedom of expression. Though you could say I'm catastrophizing, I still believe it should be treated as an ugly part of society that should be heavily condoned, but not cut off. Because then you may bleed out from the hole it will leave or die from the infection. This leads me to my second point, a counter argument on your topic of how l%li art is only used by specific people looking to... relieve themselves. I acknowledge your horrible experience with the content, but an old friend of mine who was also s%xually abused as a minor uses it to cope. Not sure about the details with what she does with it, but she reads through some, draws some, and they help her process somehow. This is quite different in nature from coping, and you may find this gross, but people may not be enjoying the fact that they are children but instead enjoying the body type. It's something that can be found in a few adults, but they aren't too common, so it's also less common in the p%rn industry. Thus leading people to just deal with the fact that they are kids, but not engage in it because they are kids. (On a side note, I do think this can lead those kinds of people to treat adult women who look like that as kids, and then proceeded to force their fantasies on them. Which is pretty sad and gross, and I don't condone that at all unless said woman genuinely wants to be treated like that). There are also a few other things that can be considered just as bad, and while this may not convince you to change your mind about l%licon, it may convince you that other things should be treated similar. Guro (S%xualized gore), beastiality, in some cases rape, in some cases ryona (subject to physical and/or psychological abuse for s%xual appeal), and amputee (cutting off limbs for s%xual appeal) to name a few. They all s%xualize leaving crippling effects and long lasting traumas on people. While I admit that not all of them are on the same level as l%licon, I can say that some are in fact on the same level or even beyond the harm of l%licon. This last point is mostly an opinion based on personal morals, but I believe that it is morally wrong to try and control what other people chose to cultivate, even if cultivation of those things is morally wrong in itself, or even harmful to the one cultivating it themselves. Instead I believe that there should be better systems in place to prevent direct harm, like giving people who have such desires or other mental health issues an easy way to prevent themselves from acting on such desires like better education on mental phenomenon so they are prepared for what they are getting themselves into, good access to therapy, and/or other things that may escalate depending on how sever their problems get. Also better education for kids and tighter protections around them to separate them from harms way and to prevent them from developing trauma at a young age (though it is also important that kids develop a sense of freedom as well, so that they don't feel trapped, because that can also be traumatic). In essence, I believe that all people should be able to do whatever they want (within the means that they are able to provide for themselves) as long as it doesn't either directly negatively effect someone else or intentionally indirectly negatively effect someone else. I also believe that laws should only effect things of that nature, so punishment for offenders, therapy, a safe place for people to go to for their problems without being put on a list, and etc. Though I'm aware that what I'm talking about is a pipe dream especially with the way politics and society work, I don't think the actions of the few should relinquish the privilege of the many.

I want to watch this video so badly but the honk censoring is giving me such a headache :( rip

"Apply the same logic to games being violent, video games promote violence by that logic!" Undertale players: 💀

This is very off topic but I love your art style and I wanted to subscribe but noticed that I already was so I just turned on the notifications! 💗

I don't like that kind of stuff, but I assumed it was a good thing in a way. HEAR ME OUT, I assumed that maybe if predators looked at that art, they would spend more time distracted than actually hurt a child. That's what I assumed. Please don't attack me, I hate that kind of art. I hope that makes sense.

I didn't knew at first what a lolicon is, and considered myself a lolicon. I am against the hentai with lolis, but I am not against the lolis themselves. I am not against a loli art with no sexual subtext to it. I am not against loli characters in anime or manga. I actually like lolis muh more than other types of characters. But not for them being sexually appealing to me. I just think they are funnier characters than basic milfs or generic normal guy that everyonw will simp over. I am against loli hentai, but I hate when it is called "literal cp", cuz it is mostly not. It should not be demonized as much as real cp. Real cp should be the worst crime material. Loli hentai should be called "loli hentai" and not cp. Cuz this itself can sometimes harm people or help predators. And the loli hentai itself can also change and influence some individuals. That is my point of view on this. Until we go to twitter, where for just a non sexual loli art you can be called a pedo by some dumb idiots. There are a lot of people and cases like what I described. And that is what capable of helping real predators. Cuz there were sometimes on real call-out posts of real predators "is this the real cp or just some loli shit". This is not ok. I am not going to defend lolicon viewers anymore. I have been doing that for a while, but I am going to stop. Just keep the regular lolis out of the question, and I will be ok. I won't defend hentai.

I’m between sides on this. While I do agree that an adult character that doesn’t fully look like a child can be lewded, if it 100% looks like a child, it’s wrong. I’m a comic artist that has an 89 year old character who acts and feels rather young, yet the only thing we can see about her age is her wrinkles and old lady height. We can tell that she is an adult, even if she has youthful aspects. As another example from another character I have, one of them is an alien who is 75 on his planet, and 13 on ours. Lewding of him is not okay applying the laws of our world, one that he currently lives in in his timeline. While I don’t consume or create l0licon media, that’s my basic argument on it. Some is worse, some is justified. As for the “but actual stuff is worse” argument. I do agree with this, but as long as disliking l0licon doesn’t interfere with getting the people who actually do it away from schools, put in jails, and on certain lists I’m all for not liking l0licon.

In my opinion as long as it's all fiction I don't care what you like. You like 🔫 video games? Gory horror movies? Shota Loli hentai? Have smexx with a night lady in GTA and get your money back later? You do you. You only cross the line when you hurt real people. Every argument against fiction is a moral one. Bad acts in fiction doesn't translate into bad acts in real life. Trying to make rules around it always end up in arbitrary applications, just look at how Patreon and Tumblr tried to enforced their rules if you need proof.

I have seen some comments disagreeing with how the term loli has been talked about in western discussions. Like how it means petite body types or just younger body types (though that 2nd meaning just sounds kinda weird on its own). And thinking western should look at the term differently m. But to be fair, the eastern media in anime and other Asian cartoons are fault as well. Because if you have seen very controversial scenes or characters of loli stuff, the anime’s itself takes the western meaning of liking child-coded bodies or just young people expressed in shows. Especially where they make perverted self aware jokes on this loli character. The closet I have seen where they used the original term meaning, that others explained, while not being as creepy as other shows was uzumaki-Chan. She was an adult but had a petite body. But we cannot lie to say we haven’t seen one weird moment in Japanese shows with a loli character. (At least if you have seen anime).

As a minor, this kind of art makes me incredibly uncomfortable and unsafe, it does affect real world minors. I don't understand why people are defending it, genuinely. Minors in any way, shape, or form should not be sexualized in my personal view and everyone who is defending it is making me feel really gross :(

While I enjoy knowing I’m not alone in the experience of grooming it’s also sad that others have had to go through that as well, after being groomed I thought it was ok and would even defend and enjoy said content as a way to cope looking back I feel so gross about it now

7:17 All of this, thank you so much for listening and bringing up the criticism and understanding their points of view. I had my issues with your previous video about the topic due to the criticism you brought up here and distanced myself from your content for a long while. I just didn’t feel comfortable with the flip-flopping. I’m very grateful that you acknowledged the criticism, elaborated, and didn’t just dissed and shut them down. You’re pretty much the most understanding member of the community I’ve come across without being hostile that you see all the time in Twitter. I’ve heard of a defense that the art would be keeping p*dos away from kids because they have something to satisfy themselves instead, and I understand that point, but the problem of the viewer being into what is involved in the art is still there. There still needs to be action to get therapy and change themselves.

In my opinion art is fair game basically as long as you’re graceful with the subject matter. I wrote a song about imperial Japan and how it’s fucked (in honestly a pretty immature way) but by the end I made sure that the listener knows that I think that it was bad.

if someone like rev says desu sees this video he's gonna have an anuerysm, which I hope he does because this video is excellent

(KZfaq deleted my other comment) I agree but I do have a couple of questions. (1).What if miner draws art of their oc that might be underaged? I sort of drew art like that, but it was supposed to look like a model if that makes sense. (2). Is it ok for a miner to ship their persona or oc to a Character that is older than 18? (3). Is it ok to age up a character by a couple of years inorder to ship a character/persona with? I did that with Chara because she's my biggest crush right now and I'm 14, she doesn't have a actual age in the game but it seems like that most people see her as 10 to 13. I'm just wondering and confused if it's the same thing or if it's wrong, mostly on (3).

The biggest problem I think with banning lolicon is that nobody seems to know what it even is. I've seen more than my fair share of arguments where it's like "This character with wide hips, defined musculature, and large breasts is clearly a child, because her eyes are drawn larger than realistic eyes!" I would not miss actual lolicon drawings for a moment if they all got thanos snapped away, as I don't have any interest in them. But I have concerns that any attempt to ban (via law or shame) lolicon would immediately lead to attempts to ban literally the entire anime artstyle. I feel like it's safer to just avoid art you don't like to interact with, rather than trying to witch hunt on subjective standards.

This is a very well done video and helpful on a very controversial topic such as this one. I hope that this video is able to reach more people because I believe it could have a helpful affect on the problem at hand.

Kinda coming to this discussion late. But there isn't a universal moral code. What flies for one group will not for another. Age of consent works differently even within the US's 50 states... that it works differently in other countries and involves other age ranges... makes the matter pretty complicated and messy. It's easy to say , "no XYZ art, period, done". But the reality of an ask like that will greatly depend on who is implementing those laws and policies as well as the cultural norms driving those implementations and interpretations of policies. :( Tbh, the argument looks like a slippery slope. Peoples' belief in some absoluate sense of good/evil and right/wrong and that their definition of said concepts is the correct one... makes that slope being slippery feasible. I _cringe_ just thinking of politiicians trying to decide what qualifies as the qualities that defines one's age in an illustration. I'm willing to bet that no matter how well intentioned the original cause... the resulting law and the interpretation of said law will be used in aggressively offensive and suppressive ways.

I just want to say... The speedpaint is very pretty and adorable! I love your art and way of making it! ❤

Many of you seem upset about the "exception" made when comparing violent videogames to lolicon. I hate comparisons in general. Just because two issues are similar, does not mean that the solution or effect they have will be the same. (For example, transitioning gender vs race. Same idea sociologically in almost every way, however one is encouraged while the other is discouraged.) We can't/shouldn't compare the two as there are many social nuances that change how each is received and what kind of influence it has. Regardless of how similar they may seem on the surface. Therefore, we cannot use the "violent video games are okay, so Lolicon should be as well” argument because it generalizes solutions and creates laziness in trying to discuss complex issues like this. They simply cannot have the same solution or effect, regardless of how similar. They're not the same.

I’ve drawn vent art and I’ve tried to make it both disgusting and cute [1] [1.5] Someone looked through my art book [2], and the person who looked at it called me a l*licon/sh#tacon defender. I had to explain that I drew something that happened when I was younger. I had to tell them what happened to me, I had to ‘out’ my past. Just because I didn’t make it only disgusting, I had to explain the reason why I even had the thought of making it. [1] (because when a thing happened to me when I was younger, I kept getting called cute during that, but I felt like I was disgusting and it was my fault.) [1.5] I made it super pastel and cutesy, but I added blood, bruising, vomit, injuries and other bodily fluids. All of the disgusting stuff was practically neon and black but smaller than the pastel(eg. the blood was black and the vomit was neon green, versus the clothes and hair being pastel.) [2] (that’s where I drew it, which means they shouldn’t have looked through it in the first place.)

I'm very interested in the assertion that people who seek out content like l0lisho by default have P3dophilic inclinations since from what I've discovered it is more nuanced than that. This isn't my bag and I have no horse in this race, so I deferred to some friends who DO for their input when I was trying to understand this previously. For them, it is less 'attraction to the characteristics of a child' and more a derived form of age regression kink play. Often they are projecting on the "little" in the situation. So its roleplay to them, DDLG etc, where everyone involved (people creating and consuming the art/fic) are adults. A lot of the time this sort of thing comes from a traumatic place so I'm not comfortable pressing it. I'm personally a victim of CSA myself and I *don't* relate to this kind of kinkplay at all but I can also understand the angle of someone who would be into that. So--I guess that wouldn't change the fact that there likely are people attracted to this content based on suspicious reasons but I do think it's more varied than that. I guess what this video is missing the most is the input of people who do directly engage in this sort of content. I *do* want to hear more of their direct justifications and reasoning more than I want to hear more obvious condemnations of it. Maybe a broad anonymous survey or something would be useful to collect data on WHY people are into this stuff. This is a different discussion than "does it do harm or not" I just think the reasoning behind WHY people are into this was brushed off without enough research.

On the topic of vent art showing child abuse: i feel like there's a big difference between a piece of art depicting a sexual act, and just porn. By it's nature, porn is a form of art whose purpose is to cause arousal, so the creator of the pornography must think that what they are producing is arousing or at least intends to arouse others with it, the intention of the artist is very important when discussing lolicon, because lolicon is specifically as a form of pornography, thus, it's objective is to provoke sexual pleasure, so the artist himself is morally reprehensible for producing it, those consuming it for pleasure are also morally defunct, but the artist has a special kind of responsability in this case and thus his art is deserving of censorship. On the other hand, people who are sexually aroused by art depicting such acts that are NOT meant as pornographic (for example those that are meant to be seen as horrific, to elicit a negative emotional response, like vent art about child abuse for instance) is fully the consumer's responsability, not the artist's fault, so the art doesn't deserve censorship in this case, even if they do decide to share it to the public, because the art is not meant to arouse, it's not porn. So the purpose of the art is what, i would say, is the main factor that decides if underage sex being depicted should be censored or not.

but wait, how does one tell if something is Lolicon or just lewd? I’m torn about Sakura and the fact that she’s in fourth grade……

Unrelated to the video but oh my god I love your style and I'm probably gonna make a rice for it in KDE

Hey, I wanna gain a better understanding about this so I know exactly WHY loli is wrong. I'm just learning, please don't judge. In the section about fictive vs non-fictive imagining, (correct me if I spelled that wrong) what if it's a scenario where they're enjoying it in a completely fictive sense? If they enjoy it strictly because it's a child, you're absolutely right. But depending on the artist or picture, there could be something else they find attractive there- in that case, would it still be wrong? Is that an exception? Or is it simply so much of an outlier that it doesn't count for the purposes of the point?

cheeseburber

It’s it okay if I draw them because i think the chibi style is cute and I like the style am I bad for that?

what exactly is the moral standard when all humans are trash in ways we don't identify by ourselves? but i once looked up where the word lolicon came from. i knew it could never have been of japanese origin, because the japanese language does not have the letter "L". (they pronounce it rarikan). it's from a russian novel called lolita featuring the "romantic" relationship of some 30 yo company owner and his 15 or so yo employee. i couldn't hear what book you were talking about, so it might be the same one, but i would argue that this book being a best seller shows just how awful people really are. with the epstein island issue and japanese rated r cartoons depicting children, i feel as though it's easy to assume the entire world is toxic.

I know this isn't really on topic of the video- but the art you did in this one is so pretty and colorful 😳 I love how saturated the color palette is

i always thought the term was the style of clothing. which is what came up on sites until a couple years ago where anything with the term was taken down. I always associated it with the big fluffy dresses and cutesy dress style with the parasol and usually platform shoes etc. on a second completely un related topic. I do find that there are a lot of issues with the way we characterize characters in art without knowing whats going on. i dont agree with any underaged sexualized content whatsoever, to the point i dont like when ppl dress their kids in those strangely sexual themed shirts. you know the ones the "im gonna steal your girl" and "hunkman" on a toddler. its bizarre. I do however have a few friends whos characters are short. I have to tell them specifically that ill draw their art, but i wont post it and its for their personal use only. aka dont associate it with me, because people will jump to conclusions and you will be banned. I dont even draw my own character rin the raccoon in sexual drawings. shes is currently 30 but being a raccoon she is only 3 feet tall and her tail is 3 feet long, thats one of her main things. but it doesnt lend itself to wanting adult art of me and my partner/s. i even contemplated trying to make a separate character just for that but it was awful. anyways all of that just to say, i dont like that we jump to conclusions and that this says that short people or characters with dwarfism etc shouldnt be allowed to have art of adult activities.

I’m pretty sure that even if ur not a minor this could DEFINITELY make you uncomfortable.

You really do sound like you could make very good essays and/or video essays

i love your art!!

Thank you for being open and honest about your thoughts on such a tricky topic! I agree very much with your perspective, and can see you spent a lot of time researching and gathering perspective.

I can see how a consomer of lol*con can (not all but a %) can get the consumer reved up to the point they go out and harm a child. I am sure this can be said of many forms of art but it shouldn't be ignored.

And as i m a g level eldergod and time lord abd the top grimm reaper how runs all fo lambo or deteh citey o and a atlandetin fo year2525 or fo ege fo time and space its self fo coresus ageing is a bit difrent for thos like me as i sayd i hav bio bodysis a corss time and space its self and i hav a ai sede and my true form all fo witch is y ageing is difrent for thos like me

I just watched this video and I agree with it 100%. I just have a question - what exactly would be a child character being sexualized *despite* being a child, and how different is it from said character being sexualized *for* being a child?

Thank you so much; you really put to words the thoughts I've had in my head about this topic but did not know how to express to those who have actively harassed me for my views. I am also living proof that sexualizing of children in animated media does directly harm children. When I was 12 I really started to take an interest in anime and became really obsessed with a show that was directed specifically towards children with all the main characters being around my age which made it even more relatable to me. Problem being, these children were often thrown into very suggestive positions including adult characters fawning over them which completely flew over my head as it was portrayed as silly funny comedy and nothing serious. I had had no experience prior to situations like these so this media really normalized very dangerous ideations for someone my age. Because of the nature of the show, it obviously attracted a lot of grown adults alongside children which ended up in many, many older men who reached out to me and tried to befriend me. While I never made my age public, it was very obvious in how I carried out conversations that I was young. I had someone trick me into drawing fetish art for them of my own oc as they made it seem like a funny silly topic, and another who was trying to "tease" me by tracking my IP somehow and giving a generalized location of where I was from and when I did not want to specify where I lived, they played it off as just a normal silly joke people do and tried to pressure me into revealing it by messaging me over and over for it. I am far from the only child who was harmed in this small community surrounding this anime. It is very frustrating and downright invalidating when people say fictional media of this topic does not hurt real children directly to my face when I was groomed over and over again and ultimately left permanently traumatized because I had no idea the situations I was being put in were inappropriate because it was normalized for me over the very thing people say has no affect on real people. So thank you again for making this video. It really does make me feel less alone and like I'm not going crazy over this.

Just to point out because i see some people using this two characters for this argument while they have nothing to do with the term of Loli/Shota Venti & Gorou from Genshin impact are NOT a Loli/Shota code ( Shot in this case because they are boys) idk why some of you say that or why some people told you that but the most people only Claim that Venti is a Trap code character due fact people didnt know if he was a boy or girl some really though he was a girl in the begin other knew he was a boy so they just said he a trap probely. Gorou is just a Kemonomimi like Diona. there only 4 Loli so far we can play with: Klee, Qiqi, Diona & Sayu the reason is basic because they look like on/ mhy said they are loli, basis on there age, there power, there bio story. ● Klee (there still a theorie going on) is probely a Elf but with her age she in Fact a child character because she still childish and still dont understand most things not only that when we first meet her the quast litalry called : Who is Mondstadt's strongest figther. I think from that moment people called her a loli because she small,strong, and blow things up. ● Qiqi is a Zombie child and chould be in fact be called a loli due fact she already death in the story and live longer then she looks like but dont get me wrong here although she already death and is back to live that doenst means that she not a childe she died as a chikde and is still a child let not forget she caint remember things all the way ( i think this have something to do with her memories lost afther dying) aswell mentale way. ● Diona is way much more Mature then the other 3 she doenst want people to drink alcohol and be drunk adult due her past with her Father, she really want to help adult and try making alcohol free drinks she can be seen closer to a loli then the other 2 i just named. ● Last of all Sayu seems be the only loli that come close.. the fact that sayu said her self and the shrine maiden " she a young lady" As least CN & JP tranlastion, Sayu is 19 or something but she doenst grown up ( in Height) and seems quit stucken in her currect form this have clearly to do what she learned if you did her hangout event. So in short: *Klee* - a loli who only basis on how powerfull she is for a young age, a theory that she a elf and chould be older (due her ears) but is still counted as a child because she is. *Qiqi* - a Zombie child who death a long time ago but got back to life by Zhonli should be older then all currect loli but have a memories problem and seems to be driften often but doing her best, is only counter as loli of her age and because she was a child that also code in the loli term look. *Diona* - a Kemonomimi character who just make non alcohol drink for adult due her bad experiment with her Father with his team was to drunk to notice danger? ( if i mistake her hangout event pls correct me) where she needed to do the job herself to save them and afther worth scold them for the awfull way and swore to hate alcohol and drunk people, is code loli due her design/Mature reason most see her as a young lady. *Sayu* - a character who have growning problems in height and Wish to grown faster but due her delay in training but also sleep to much have something to do with her growth but is in fact 19 year old she even said it that she not a child but due her height people mistake her for a child and she doenst like it that people call her that. Due that reason she a loli or a dwarf.. [There 4 new Loli/Shota that still need to come ( as i say it for now on this moment) and probely more later on] Hopefully this explain the genshin characters for now withoud misunderstanding.

Wow, thank you for this video and the research you did. I had some discussions with people who read Lolicon but I never understood what made it so important for them that it is little children. At one point in your video when reciting the article I had to stop for a moment though. When the author talked about fantasising about abuse and it is targeted specifically at a certain group, in this example women that it says something about their real life view on women. I read and watch this kind of media from time to time in a way that I put myself in the place of the woman (I am a cis woman) and it helps me to cope with my trauma by going into a situation like that while being safe because it is fiction. Not completely, but it helped me a lot to get rid of triggers. That is a point I heard a lot from these people who consume Loli content, that they were victims of abuse as a child and that it helps them to cope. I totally agree that this kind of material can do a lot of harm and I wouldn't even notice when it totally disappeared, but for the people who use it to deal with trauma and can't produce this material themselves, where would they get it? It is a complicated topic and I can't even imagine what it is like to be the vicim of sexual abuse as a child, having to deal with something happening in my early 20s was hard enough. When talking to people it is always a slippery slope. On one hand I can't relate to it and therefore can't actually argue for it to exist, on the other hand I deal with my trauma in a way that many people can't understand either and I wouldn't want someone to tell me how to cope when it works for me. Again, thank you for the video and the research. I got a lot of information about a topic that I previously just brushed by and didn't spend a lot of time thinking about the consequences for this art to even exist.

That kinda art should be hated on but harmless art shouldn’t be hated, there was an artist who drew beta versions of amity and luz from the owl house, beta owl house is completely different, they go to clo age and are 18 and it was gonna be more edgy and less child friendly but then Dana worked with Disney so I wouldn’t be like that so they were aged down and in high school and was a lot less edgy. Lots of art with beta art of TOH (the owl house) is edgy and sometime sexual and this artist drew beta art of them and it was a bit sexual and edgy now I do have to say luz is black and amity is whiter than a sheet of paper and amity was holding luz in a chain, people said it was racist when it just so happened luz is black. This artist deleted this account due to hate. Was this justified? I personally think it was unjustified