good luck with the fist steep 40 degree hill you come across

Bad news. This guy has little to know real understanding of what hes talking about. He doesn't understand the engineering or physics involved in either motor type

Probably one of my favorite ebikes to date was a 500w geared hub drive, it's all debatable

and a 750 watt mid-drive will walk all over 1-2kw hub motors up hills and still be legal I'm all for hub drives but they're not bicycles to me they do not use the bikes gear system

​@@TheAgentAssassinWith the same controller maybe with a controller that can give all the power to the hub motor it needs it will wipe a mid drive

that's not true, neither physically nor based on real products. you have to keep in mind that most people only use bikes in the legal 250W range. In most countries, motors with more than 500W are useless because they cannot be used in everyday life. if you compare here, a hub motor has no real chance because the disadvantages outweigh. Hubs only have advantages in the illegal range from 1000/1500W and more, because there are almost no corresponding mid-drive solutions. And these are no longer bicycles. If you compare real products, for example a mid drive with 250W/1000W peak and a hub with 250W/1000W peak. the mid drive will win. Even if the hub has a gearbox. Less weight, higher efficiency, better operating conditions, finer dosing control,, better weight distribution, less heat, easier maintenance of the mid drive, stronger, better and cheaper gearbox at the same time. Mid drive has only one disadvantage, the wear of the chain. but you can swap them out in minutes. But repair a hub wheel when the spokes are broken...much more work. Think what happens to an engine..... The rider pedals with a cadence of 80. The rear wheel spins at 60rpm The mid drive runs at 3000rpm at the same time but what rpm does the "typical" hub run at? 60.... and what does that mean for an engine? especially if the rpms drop even further. In real world conditions with real products within legal laws, on a Pedelec, the mid drive motor will almost always deliver significantly better handling, with better control and performance. For the Hub Motor to win, you have to construct tests that focus on the advantage of a hub. for example an acceleration sprint. Because the mid drive is initially slowed down by the gearbox, while the hub can rotate fully from the first.

If you need an Essex to US translator, let me know

Rear wheel hubs are prone to having their rims damaged due to the load distribution. A decent pothole/speedbump can end your ebike ride there and then.

@@Thanos1908 So true. There are many things to consider that people looking for the cheapest deal just overlook. You can't just use 'normal' bike parts for an ebike. For Hub motor you need: thicker spokes (I'd recommend oversized nipples - never a bad thing :) -or a custom washer to spread the forces), dual-wall rims, and must be careful of the spoke lacing pattern too as this will affect strength (remember the distance for the spokes is shorter due to the size of the hub.) For mid-drive: consider upgrading chain and sprockets as you have more force going through them. You should also upgrade spokes and rims as they will have more forces, though not as much as the hub-motor. You will probably have to change your suspension settings as you will have more 'sprung' weight with the battery and motor (or go on a cabbage diet and drop the extra 10 or more kilos...) For both: Brakes, brakes, brakes!!! Get bigger discs and upgrade to hydraulic if you haven't already. Get the Hydraulic switches to plug into the controller to keep regen and to cut the power when braking.

@@OakleyTurvey I've actually experienced what i described in my last reply to you ...on a 12G spoked factory wheel. xD Once i settle on the softail body i will be using for it ...I will be switching to a mid drive. (I got burned on poridge...so now I'll even blow on yoghurt) No hate on my rear wheel hub, on 1500w it would hit almost 50km/h...but i am too big of a dude for it to survive every day usage. I will revive it at some point...when 38 hole 12G ebike rims become less of a rarity.

@@Thanos1908 :) Hope you survived the experience with not too much trauma. I'm looking forward to 80's BMX style mag wheels (full size of course) with standard sized fittings to take hub motors. This is the same evolution that motorcycles went through in the early days, transitioning from bicycle parts to heavy-duty, fit for purpose parts. Keep having fun and whatever you do, enjoy it is the main goal.

@@OakleyTurvey What do you think about electric motorcycle ; hub motor is better for e- motorcycle or mid drive ? ... Btw the hub motor motorcycle is single sided swing arm

Torque sensors are crap on a hub. You have to take up the chain slack. Defeats the purpose really

Ebay uk, all or most are bafang motors, it's the wiring and controls that differ.

Upgrade the controller

I've never had a single issue with them to be honest

Never had a issue with them working loose on the tension, or snapping, but thankfully have ordered a few spare spokes as bought a better quality hub motor and company sell spare parts and in stock. You just have to be careful the motor you order as some you can’t get spokes for and other spare parts. It really depends on your built as I just custom built my bikes rather hub, or mid drive as can fix as needed without worrying about getting parts, or manufacturers locking batteries and other parts down by means of encryption and pairing parts to controller, or don’t sell parts to 3rd party. I never buy a prebuilt bike or any bike with bosch mid drive kit, or battery for very reason. You can’t repair them on your own. Unacceptable for a bike that can cost several thousands of dollars. Especially considering it a bike and it going to break and parts are going to deteriorate over time with use. It like buying a car and can’t repair it or take it to a mechanic shop as they can’t fix it due to no parts available, or software lock and only dealer can but half the time parts are back ordered, or cost more to fix then to get a new one, or you get a idiot that states not repairable and maybe just a $15 component is bad. Reason why for Right to Repair.

yes 100%

@@TheAgentAssassin yes on hub/mid drive combo? Or yes on the CVT question?

Well said.

How

@@user-uc2dk1vp6e just pop the bead, pull only one side of the tire off the wheel, pull out the tube and repair.. as usual check for the cause of the leak, then stuff it back in like normal.. fairly easy and faster after practice

please make a video 👍

I run a bafang 750watt mid. It's brilliant many befits. Compered to a hub motor.

like which, other than weight distribution?@@user-tg7br3tx6d

Middrives get 40 to 60 percent more distance using same size battery.

@@frago1969 wow didn’t know that cheers

That's just ridiculous. They get the same distance for the same wattage. The difference is that for mid drives you put more human power into the mix while at hubs without torque sensing you can ride without putting any effort in. That makes the difference. Physics doesn't change just because you have a middrive.

Yes my dog lol

Any updates after a year? I’m the same size as you and I’m considering the mid drive for your reasons specifically. Haha

The only pro to a hub drive is the price. My 1000w bafang mid drive is a beast. No regrets at all

@@thisone3519 Did you watch the video?

Very similar to my electric pit bike but 66v 42mph and 7200w

Electric motors are horrendously inefficient at low rpm.. And guess what.. it's always low rpm in a wheel. Its turning at the speed of the wheel. The only thing a direct drive hub has over a mid drive is reliability.. other than that the mid drive wins on every single metric. Anyone who thinks they know different is probably not an engineer and cant grasp the physics at play.. I design bike motors for a living. Hubs and mids. Videos like this make painful watching 😬

Mid drives. But not pedal assisting at all up hills will prematurely wear out any motor

Teach!

It's such an open ended questions. A non electric mountain bike could be considered enough to do off roading by many. Others buy almost powerless 250w ebikes for thousands and might be happy with that. How much do you want to spend and how much do you want to exercise is the question.

@@DudeStuff yeah I understand mate, I’ve found something called an ‘allegro 500w full sus mountain bike’ for £1140 which is a decent price. But a lot of people putting me off about the wattage and the fact it’s hub driven

@@DudeStuff I’ll be going out with my friend who’s got a 500w mid driven bike… just don’t want to be trailing behind really as they are really torquey

@@woppo1408 so your question is how do I keep up with my mate on his ebike 🤪

@@DudeStuff sort of yes aha, it’s weather I should spend my money else where aha

You're ignoring the RPM difference. Mid drives have a much lower RPM because they're depending on using a mechanical advantage with the gears. Hub drives have a much higher RPM and use internal gears. I don't really think either is "better" but as stated in the video there are pros and cons. But what I can GUARANTEE is 99.9% of people don't ride their bike hard enough to even matter, they just like the idea of having a bike that CAN do those things. I'm from the car world as well and I'll tell you the amount of people that jack up their trucks/Jeeps and drop 10k+ on off-road upgrades is about 100 to 1 or more. The most those off-road vehicles will ever see is parking in their friends front during 4th of July. The average person isn't jumping their shit off 20 foot jumps.

@@Tiralful not all hubs are geared the high power hubs are generally direct drive and as already stated by using the gears you multiply the max rpm of the middrive.

Geared are great but won't last forever if plastic gears otherwise they're all great

Wow, I want one. just add a front hub system too.😁😁😁 make sure you get that 3 motor ebike on youtube sir. I really want to see.

I kinda wanna put a hub on front and back now

Please show us

Make a vid man!

what's the weight?

12k on mine

On a direct drive hub motor you don't really have anything to go wrong through wear and tear except the sealed bearings in the middle and then its just a matter of random failings of electrical components which might not happen. Contrast that to a mid-drive motor with plastic cogs, belts, a tiny high speed motor geared down to drive the bottom bracket axle. There is a lot going on there and it has to handle not only the motor power but the rider power too going through the axle. There is so much wear and tear there. A geared hub motor is somewhere in between but still a much simpler design than a mid-drive motor. The fact mid-drive motors even work at all after hundreds of miles is a testimony to high quality engineering, you just don't need that precision with a hub motor, they can be made to much wider tolerances and still be much more reliable.

Add regen it took my pads feom 400 km to over 3000

Regen is king.

Yes. You have to stop putting power through cuz the gears actually make a difference

Changing gears on a bicycle is very inconvenient?

Yep lol probably the most common comment on this one 🤣

This is most true with direct drive hub motors. Hub motors with gear reductions can be louder. I mean not loud but not as silent I mean.

@@Parker307 my onyx rcr is completely silent. All u hear is the freewheel if anything

Did you have torque arms on it?? Been considering upgrading from 1500w but don’t want my bike to blow apart

Mid Drive chains snapping is another myth mine Has almost 2k km still No issues some people say they Had 8000w Mid Drive and No chain snaps 😈

@@SuperiorNo1 no chain snap either with my setup, but wear due to abrasion is an issue, especially with an oiled chain.

@@JoLe1991 Oil is the Best Lubricant i tried Dry oil it was Horrific made Bike sound like something out of a skip!! 😈

@@SuperiorNo1 clean oil yes, dirty oil no. Wax has lower stiction and repels dirt. a chain is constantly blasted with dirt when riding

@@JoLe1991 Who the fuck would put Dirty oil on!? Wax Doesn't last as long as oil 😈

Really? Ive been riding hubs daily since 2012 and have only gotten 1 flat, by a piech of metal due to riding through a construction site.

@@christianbeaupre7989 You have to understand. To him high pressure is probably what the manufacturer recommends and what you and I would consider medium pressure lol.

@@cooloutac ah, gotcha

Mid Drives peak at 600-800w Nominal 😈

I don't sell kits but kirbebike will be doing 60v kits later this year

Depends on who u are and where u live. Me? I'd be unlucky lol