24:00 I strongly disagree. I had no idea that Dune even existed when I first played the board game, and I loved it. Read the books after, and have been a fan ever since. I would never have read Dune if not for the boardgame.

I enjoyed this review, even though I disagree with your assessment of the game! The cons you point out are all valid to a greater or lesser extent. But there is a definite interlocking of mechanics that might not be apparent upon first couple of play-throughs. In our gaming group the Harkonnen rarely win, because everyone knows that their early game strategy will be very aggressive. As the game goes on the Harko's ability becomes weaker as more traitors are revealed, which often forces them to temper their early game pushes. The strategies are faithful to the book, and may even make you play a certain "way", but I don't think that I've ever seen a faction win in the way I expected. The situation remains precarious for everyone all game. Yes, you can definitely all but lose the game early on, but it's the risk/reward nature of the game that I enjoy. And then you can house rule what you don't like. There's plenty of rules variation online which are very well set out and worded to tournament level quality. So, again, I disagree with the review, even if I think it was really good because, objectively, you're absolutely right!

I love the way information is a nearly tangible resource. The Atreades (spelling?) Ability converts to actual cash more often than not. And how "would you like me to tell you which of your leaders are safe" is so valuable. The karama abilities absolutely should be on the cards or references. The main problem is that this is a game that over the last 40 years, a lot of major house rules have been adopted and they tried to accommodate those in the rules without changing the actual components. Examples: Karama abilities Non-advanced game Not paying spice to buff units Etc....

I love your reviews, but I disagree with your assessment of this game. To be fair I purchased this new edition of the game having never played the original before, purely for the love of the books/universe. It rested on my shelf unplayed it until some friends, that also had a copy and had played an introductory 2 player game, forced me to get it to the table. After an agile 30 minutes explanation, the preconceptions that I had, based on other reviews, on rule fiddliness and outdated design went completely out of the window. Sure, certain elements in the game mechanics might evoke a bygone era in boardgames, but I think they contribute to make the game stand out, and give out a rich thematic flavour that can appeal as much to fans of the lore as to people that haven't the slightest idea what Dune is about. We certainly overlooked a few rules during our first play (and I agree the QS guide could have been better), but overall we had a happy wonderful time playing together, clocking at about 2.30hrs (at 4 players) and we are all looking forward to our next game night to replay this. I think this game is a gem, definitely not for everybody, but one my friends and I very much look forward to explore again and again.

I don’t disagree strongly, but I came to a different conclusion. I played my first game of Dune about 4 years ago and it was one of the best gaming experience ever. First, yes you need 5-6 players. Anything less will be unbalanced. Second, this is less about area control a la Root. This is a game that thrives on negotiation and information sharing, alliances, a la Diplomacy. As opposed to an in person 2-6 hour game, I actually think the best experience is a PBEM game spread over many days or weeks where each player can think about the turn, spend time negotiating with multiple parties each turn, backstabbing, etc.

Great review, and while all the points you made are valid, I couldn't disagree more with the final score. For me, the intricacies and unpredictability of the interacting mechanics make Dune exciting in a way that I rarely find in other games. I'm quite a solid board gamer, much to the chagrin of my gaming circle, and I am rarely surprised, regardless of whether I am wining or losing. Even in games with random or hidden information elements, I general have a fairly comprehensive estimation of the probabilities of various events. This makes many games rather tedious. Dune, however, has random elements interacting in sufficiently numerous and unexpected ways that it is almost impossible to predict all possible outcomes of an action, and there are moments in every game which surprise and delight me. The mechanics allow one to make intricate and layered plans, which you are either elated to see succeed or amused when they fail in a totally unexpected way. The highly irregular game length is an unavoidable outcome of this unpredictability. I agree that the rules should be better written and they could have improved the board scaling and unit tokens, but the Dune is a real gem which, for me, provides a wholly unique gaming experience.

Big 4X gamer here. We went from Risk>Axis & Allies>Eagle games Civilization>Attack>Eclipse>Civ New dawn>TI4>Dune (2019). Of all these games, the only one I want to play again is Dune and TI4. Stripping away the theme, TI4 is like the sequel to Dune. Dune is this intimate wargame with faction powers and hidden information in cards. Mechanically, TI4 IS Dune plus Command tokens, Agenda phase, randomized victory conditions, Strategy Cards, and tech tree. It's Dune with way more stuff. But they really have the same flavor. Dune is just simpler, not in gameplay, but in number of mechanisms. The reason I like Dune more is that it is a refined and concentrated version of TI. It's all the good parts of TI, without all the fluff. I like the fact the game can be over in round 2. Thats called respect for the player. Just like Chess can have checkmate in only a few moves. Variable game length is a bonus.

Dune plays fine with four players. Just use the Atreides, Harkonnens, Emperor, and Guild. They balance each other very well. If you have five players, just drop the Benne Gesserit.

Regarding traitors; I've been playing Dune since 1982 or so. I've seen people play a really "long con" by having a relatively minor battle with another player and *not* immediately using a traitor, thus making that player think the leader is safe. Then, when it's used in a really important battle, the traitor is activated. It's also important to realize that if you draw one of your own leaders when setting up the game, you are assured that no other player has that leader as a traitor.

8:08 "YOU! Do NOT use SHIELD!" Why would you not want them to trigger a catastrophic nuclear explosion though?

really well-made review. this is my friend group's go-to board game, and I can agree with a lot of the gripes you guys have with the game, but not necessarily the overall scoring. Dune is, more than anything, a game about information and using the information your faction has access to in order to push for victory. The alliance system is very important in this, as you can have battle-focused factions team up w/ economy factions to make strong allies together. I also kinda disagree that traitors are RNG, as they are a calculation you make before the game starts based on who you think will be a threat (ie. picking Harkonnen traitors). Also, having certain factions be strong early game vs later game is a good thing, as that variance of strategies can lead to interesting scenarios game to game. We've never had 2 games go exactly the same. And yeah, some games last 1 turn and some last all 10, and that's ok. Definitely try out some of the expansions if you haven's yet! They add new factions w/ new abilities, new win conditions, and additional game mechanics that do a good job solving a lot of the cons mentioned in your review.

You guys are really good at articulating what is bad about games as well as good, and have very perceptive comments on the games tested. Also I like how you also take into account things like "feeling the theme of the game" and new player experience. Awesome channel

Just found you guys from KZfaq Recommended. I like the videos. I hope you guys keep making them! Best of luck.

Definitely needs a new edition by this point.

I would never play this game with casual players, i.e. most people. With my gaming group however, we all really enjoyed Dune, and we agreed it was better than GoT. Probably an 8/10 for me. I'd agree with you that there is no sense of progression, but the point to me is relying on your own wits to get by.

Have played the original game for many years at the very same WBC convention you found the tournament rules, and thus love the new version, but very fair points about how it would compare to those who have become accustomed to the structure of modern boardgames. Conclusion is also spot on, thanks for a great review!

Would not really classify this as a war game really. It is more about the politics and social elements between players, with the war game elements just being a catalyst for it. If you go in expecting a refined war game, you would likely be dissapointed. The unforgiving nature of the mechanics also drive up the tension and relevance of the social elements.

Once a player understands the game and knows how to negotiate then there is little actual luck in the game. Players can ask other players for information on a safe leader in exchange for spice to avoid an assassination, players can bribe atreides to know what a card up for auction is, bribe to see the spice blow deck or the storm deck. Players can bribe each other to sweaten an alliance deal or use truthtrance to prevent a player from lying. Game is all about information and how to obtain it.

You guys are really good at reviewing and content creating. This will sound wierd but you both have smooth deep voices made for presentations, pod cast, etc. Your reviews are both humorous and intelligent. Just really impressed and glad you are making content for my favorite hobby. 🙂👍🖖

This is a game I want to play, but it feels like a game you need a good group for. And I don’t think I have the right group for it.

Nearly bought this a few weeks back - probably gotta pick it up tbh 😍

Just ordered this after seeing it on sale for about $30. Not sure when ill get to play but i find it hard to believe its harder to explain to new players than twilight imperium.

Most players disagree with you about your negative comments on the Quick-Start guide. They said it was a good way to learn the game basics without reading the whole rulebook. Sorry you disagree, give it another look.

Awesome review! Thanks. I really want this game but as you mentioned, not sure how often I’ll be able to get this to the table. I think I’ll be playing Gloomhaven and Frosthaven for the remainder of my life. Lol.

Good review! Funnily enough I agree with almost everything you guys say but to me it’s 8.5-9.

Too bad for the negative review....cuz I had just purchased it.

Love your videos guys but I disagree with almost everything you say here haha. This game has been a massive hit with everybody I've introduced it to from grizzled boardgame veterans to complete novices. Maybe try playing with another group?

This is easily one if the best games ever made. Shame you all didn't get it.

Will you guys review Cosmic Encounter?

Dune is fantastic but with higher player counts

Great review as always. I also gave this game a miss. However, would love to see your thoughts on what you think of the new streamlined version of 'dune: a game of conquest and diplomacy'. Apparently this version is quicker and much more accessible.

A very nice review. Watched it both before and after buying the game. Almost everything you mentioned is true. But many complaints were due to components design, not game mechanics. Although the mechanics is also not always clear enough and you have to do additional research during or after almost each session. For some participants of the game after an hour or so it becomes a bit tedious... But the game is very unique and thematically definitely more appealing than Root. To enjoy Dune you need 5-6 people, good knowledge of rules and faction tactics. So if components of Dune are upgraded and tweaked a bit to make them sturdier and more clear (bigger map and better units), than it would be unrivaled in its niche.

I agree with the video that Dune was great when it came out but now, we have much better game. My criticism are very different of the game thou and unlike what was said, they game is very thematic as each factions really have powers connected to its lore.

10:00 actually that is a game mechanics because you can see the height of the stacks but you do not know the number of Sardaukar or Fedaykeen. Which adds to the uncertainty of the battle commitments. I thought about printing 3D warriors but that defeats this important aspect of the game. You are right about the crowded spaces but a Dune play mat fixes that problem. You make some very valid points and I realized that in spite of loving the universe I also dread a long game of Dune ...

Complexity of the rules is what makes the game great.

I feel like we personally designed Dune: Conquest and Diplomacy for you guys! Not every game can be for every gamer.

16:30 it’s funny, in our 5 games (so far) the Harkonnens were not even close to winning, like ever.

I disagreed with this review so hard I watched the rest of your channel like five months ago and fell in love. Keep it up!

wow... a lot of the cons was fixed by rex.

You spend the spice on information trading

About the pronunciation: Relax. Literally everyone gets it wrong. The word is from Hebrew (meaning "jumping the way") and it doesn't sound like it at all cuz of letters that don't exist in English. To me it's cringe to hear people talk about dune cuz of it.

I’m planning to do a similar video in chinese soon. Haha

so this was over 50% of you just bashing the game for several things I just don't agree with. So many comments about something being "harsh". Welcome to the 80's (which is where the base rules were constructed BTW) where we did not give out participation trophies and winners and losers were clearly delineated. These games required you to PAY Attention and critically think before acting. It punished those who did not want to or could not perform this function. This is something I find lacking in many modern games. If you want a brainless, pay attention half the time type of game play something else.

Good review however all the clowning around was so cringe I didnt get to the end... I see what you guys are going for with the humour, but I really rather watch dry 15 minute Dice Tower review than a 30 minute people making faces at the camera while I try to follow what the reviewer is saying (which btw was quite good and insightful)