Looking to try polarized/pyramidal training but don't know where to start? I've got training plans that use these methods available here: www.trainingpeaks.com/coach/dylanjohnsontraining#trainingplans

Backwards Hat Dylan always says what I am thinking

I only need one zone, the hard enough to drop you zone. That's it, research done! Thanks BHD I can always count on you.

BHD needs to have his own training plans available on Training Peaks

This is by far the best cycling training channel on KZfaq. I've learned so much and have seen significant fitness/power gains in my own training. Thanks Dylan!

Would be awesome to see you and coach Chad from TR on a podcast episode together. There's definitely merit to both your viewpoints and the difference in opinions would make for some really useful content.

Not the content we deserve but the content we need

A couple of clarifications here. First, SST as popularized by Trainerroad is an alternative base training protocol for cyclists unable to train more than 10 hours per week. SST is meant to provide the best bang for your buck during the base period only, and is only claimed to be optimal when training time is constrained ~10 hours. After completing a sweet spot base phase, users move on to a build phase that is roughly 80/20, so the burning question is not whether SST or Polarized makes you faster, but whether SST-->Polarized makes you faster than Traditional Base-->Polarized. Otherwise we are just rehearsing the Threshold training v. Polarized literature, which has mostly pronounced in favor of Polarized going back quite a few years. Second, zone two in a three zone model does not adequately define sweet spot as prescribed by most training plans. If LT1 is ~75% of FTP and LT2 is FTP or just below, then zone 2 is far too broad to be equated with sweet spot. Most prescriptions place sweet spot between 88% and 94% - specifically not upper endurance/tempo (75-85%) and specifically not threshold 95-100%. Proponents of sweet spot claim that training within this narrow range offers benefits to threshold power and TTE that upper endurance/tempo do not, while simultaneously building base fitness in way that threshold training does not. This dual effect is precisely why SS is prized as a major training efficiency during the base phase. Hopefully future research will evaluate these claims and determine what the tradeoffs are over traditional base/build.

Similar to Eric and others comments below, none of the studies seem to test the mixed periodization that actually exists in many training plans; e.g. that there is a SS centric build phase, followed by a more polarized race prep phase. Personally, from years of trying different things, I think, for most time limited amateur cyclists, this is actually what works best and builds the most rounded athlete; i.e. both speed and endurance. These phases can be repeated 2-3 times a year. A lot of polarized studies focus on professional athletes that are doing roughly double the hours that amateurs can afford, hence benefit more from the sheer length of their z1 workouts. One other point though; I think a lot of amateurs also think z1 in a 3 zone model, means noodling around at z1 in a 5 zone model. Actually if you read the polarized studies and look where the pros are actually training, "z1" is mid-high z2 in a 5 zone model - i.e. aiming for just below/at that LT1 line.

Which training method do you use? Polarized, sweet spot, pyramidal, something else?

Dylan, thanks very much for this video. Despite all the available science, it is difficult to find a clear comparison between approaches with sound references to science. With your last bit on pyramidal and conclusions throughout I think you really nailed it. Overall, I take away that polarized is the way to go, but with sweet spot time actually considered within the 20% time of high intensity. So do 80% below LT1 and the rest above, individualizing proportions of Z2 and Z3 in the three-zone model depending on your overall objectives, where in the season you are, how tired you are in that day, and the characteristics of your event. Thanks so much!

Zone 2 is the most fun to do. Now that it has turned winter and I am lifting, I really started appreciating Zone 1. Zone 1 is my new favorite!

I think both Polarized and Sweet Spot serve their own purpose. Polarized training builds your aerobic engine i.e. improves your VO2Max. Sweet Spot training shifts your MLSS closer to your VO2Max. The VO2Max is the upper ceiling of ones ability for sustained endurance efforts. However, you can never reach that ceiling because there is another bottleneck which is the MLSS. From the MLSS on you will accumulate H+ ions in the respective muscles that cannot be "carried away" and thus has to be buffered. The buffering capacity will be depleted long before you run out of carbs. Only thing you can do is: shifting the point where lactate levels start to rise although you do not increase the effort (which is the MLSS). That is exactly what Sweet Spot training does. The closer your effort to MLSS is, the more your Power@MLSS will shift towards Power@VO2Max. But you must not get to close because in that case, the exercise induced strain slopes signifanctly upwards with the need for recocery rising so much that you cannot repeat such exercises often without the risk to overreach. Button line: build displacement (VO2Max) first, then shift the rev limiter (MLSS) upwards.

I have a friend who started doing polarized training for triathlon, back in 2006. Everyone thought he was crazy until race season started.

I think sweetspot has its place in base/build phases, and then working into polarised blocks the closer it gets to race season

Backwards Hat Dylan is all we need. Just listen, laugh and remember not to do as he says. Simple.

7:20 is so god damn true. I was riding with trainerroad for couple months in this year, and although during their sweetspot base is saw 20 ftp improvement, the next phase killed me. I was definitely underperforming, and came back to polarised training. Maybe this is personal, because many people see good results with Sweetspot, but for me base phase of crunching 10-20 hours a week is necessary to mentally rest. Also doing strength training (that I guess everyone in this channel does) is almost impossible with sweetspot base, while with zone 1 it is quite chill (my legs do not hurt as much after 2h+ endurance ride from dms)

Great Vid. I did a lot of SS (TR) last year for a very hilly IM, had my worst performance in 15years. Looking to go a lot more 8020 this year. I think it will give more consistency to my training. Too much SS just seemed to build fatigue and leave me open to illness and injury

Thanks Dylan! Answered what I was questioning about my approach. Too many trainer road videos and not enough of yours.

I love bro boy’s reaction. I have such a hard time staying at zone 1, but you have convinced me to do so more often

Polarized is not an approach to training, so much as an end result. If you want to perform in endurance sports, volume is king. You need to train as much as you can find the time for (and can recover from), consistently. When training that much, there's only so much intensity you can absorb and so, by necessity, one can only achieve the necessary volume by training easier a lot of the time.

u absolutely rock. 11'ish minutes with you provide much more science backed info than hour long podcasts with much talk (and less content). keep it up:)

Couldn’t the results from the first Ironman Study be because athletes spending more time in Z2 (3 zone model) are more likely to be time crunched, so have lower overall training volumes/TSS than athletes who are spending more time in Z1. So these Performance measures / correlations are based on training volumes as opposed to training type.

This literally turned my world upside down... I need to do significantly more reading on this from the articles you posted, as I'm hesitant to change up my TrainerRoad SweetSpot plan (but if the science is there, then there is no excuse not to). Thanks for this man, your channel has had some seriously positive impact on many peoples' lives. Keep it up!

give the other guy more airtime 😂. great video dude thanks for sharing

Glad you agree with Professor Stephen Seiler and the guys at fast labs. BTW, that’s why I stopped paying attention to TR.

I always wait for backward hat Dylan

Bro Science Update for the MAMILS out there: Over the last two years, I find that when I spend around 80% of my time in PZ Zone 1, I make the most gains. I'm 53 years old and have tried a lot of different plans over the years. I simply burn out and stagnate when I do pure sweet-spot base plans like Trainer Road. I never heard of pyramidal before this video but based on my breakdown, this is where I end up.

Athletes oftentimes over complicate training and end up wasting too much time and effort on anaerobic training, call it zone this or that whatever...most end up on the path to overtraining. I like the Maffetone approach as it got me out of the downward cycle of zone training and into more of a big base and let the racing take care of the anaerobic improvements. General philosophy concerning endurance training 1.) Build a great aerobic base 2.) Eat well 3.) Reduce stress 4.) Improve brain function Training slower enables your aerobic system to improve endurance so that you can actually race faster.

Trainerroad has entered the chat

I’m interested in studies that control for volume, not just % training time in zone. I suspect that on lower volume plans (7-8 hrs / week or less) SS comes out on top, but for higher volume PT yields better performance

thanks for this profound video. truly helps in planning training. digged myself into a hole of severe overtraining with nasty symptoms by excessive sweetspot last winter. feeling much better with polarized since summer.

i personally use a strongly polarized training for ski mountaineering (i just ride for fun). in a 15 hour training week i do 13.5 hours of z1 and only 1.5 hours of z3 w no attempted time in z2. doing this has made me the fittest climber ive ever been

I have no clue what I am doing. As usually. Every new video tells me something different lol

I am a competitive kayaker and my race partner and I adopted the polarized method after years of sweet spot training. We both enjoyed the most significant improvements in performance in recent years, by training less (way more time in zone 1). Prof Stephen Seiler on KZfaq has some good I information worth checking out

What a great video Dylan. I’m so glad you found this info for me. This will help me achieve my goals in 2021. I don’t know what I would do without you big dyl

What is often neglegted in these studies and discussions is how the efforts in competitions contribute to the individual's level of fitness. For example, if one follows polarized plan, but spends a lot time near or at sweetspot in competitions (and in some preparation periods) and reaches a certain (good) level of fitness, is it only due to polarized training or the combination of polarized (training) and sweetspot (competiton) efforts?

I don’t think it needs to be an either or. Polarized training works best in a 8 week phase when building on a strong aerobic base. Part of building that base is easy distance AND sweet spot. The most effective training plans take a 6 or 12 month perspective, which includes rest, base, and competition. Polarized training has a time and a place. The studies cited only looked at 6-8 weeks which the optimal time for polarized training. Indoor cycling plans are primarily designed for winter training which the part where you should be developing base. The hard /easy phase is better outside. I get the need to turn up the contrast and respect BHD. This is the best channel for cycling info.

Dylan == the man with a plan.

I would not throw SS under the bus. For a beginner or time crunched athletes SS is still preferred. The time needed at Zone 1 is 2-3 times that of SS during base training. I think if you do more efficient SS first and platau, the go back to a more traditional approach. Dylan is probably correct for top end athletes but there is plenty of evidence for SS out there.

Love this video. Super clear and easy to understand backed up with studies!

I have been watching this channel since early on. Dylan you are awesome! Please go on to get your sports physiology PhD after your cycling career is over. We need someone like you designing the studies!

Hi, Dylan. Thanks for this video. It confirms to me something that I'd intuitively decided to try last year- reducing the amount of zone 2 training I was doing. I'm 62 years old, btw, and (after a brief flirtation with time trials in my late teens) only took up time trialling seriously 6 years ago. Last summer we had few events (due to Covid restrictions) but I still managed to clock a few new PBs on the few courses that I was able to race. I'm looking to go even faster this year. As a scientist myself I really appreciate the science based approach that you use to back up your advice.

Awesome vid. Thank you! I'm a fan of SweetSpot for the period coming out of base but before you're actually in your race season, and I believe my rationale is related to your point about events that are performed in SweetSpot (13:00 of your vid). In January and February, the folks I'm training with (here in Virginia) are preparing for some early season gravel with the NUE events beginning later in the Spring. Hence, the gravel events will often be performed at a SweetSpot pace. My mantra is, "we want to get comfortable with being uncomfortable." Building up from 2-3 8min SS intervals to 3-4 20min SS intervals (during January - February) teaches that lesson. Gravel pacing is hard, and we need to get used to settling into it. Your recognition of the difference between Ironman and HalfIronman may be relevant too -- as it may be a function of the experience and performance level of the athlete. Someone that is a seasoned, well-tuned, and super-disciplined Ironman athlete can train in Z1 and Z3, then perform in Z2. The less experienced amateurs (probably more likely to be in those 1/2 IM events) may be better served by training in the zone they are preparing to perform in. So, in summary, for many of the folks I train with I recommend two SweetSpot sessions during the work week (with rest or light Z1 days prior), one tempo MTB/gravel session on the weekend, and then another Z1 (aerobic) session on the weekend. And yes, getting that rest in between is critical to getting the desired adaptations. Thanks again for the vid and discussion!

I think one aspect of training that most people overlook is SKILL. Zone 1 is optimal for growing your skills at a particular sport. I like to refer to zone1 skill growth as compound interest. Your zone 1 speed gets faster the more skills you acquire. (Zone 1 is not static)This is especially important in sports that have more varied movement patterns, and more varied terrain.

Very informative video, as always, thx! I have been training on Dylan’s training plan for 11 weeks and have hit record FTP numbers off the gun - 4 weeks into the program. Safe to say he knows what he is talking about.

What nobody ever seems to talk about with this is the *time* *spent* *riding* Once you go above 15-20 hours a week, I don't think it really matters about POL vs PYR. Stuck at 5-8 hours a week? Then yes, I bet there's a huge difference.

Thanks, Dylan. Just to be sure, translating to the 6 zone model used by Zwift, you should target Z2 (endurance) and Z5 (vo2max) if we want to target zone 1 & 3 (polarized training)?

Polarized training works and does so for all ages and level of cyclist (beginner to pro). If you are truly a beginner then sweet-spot training is a great way to get you quickly up to speed i.e., through predominantly central adaptations. After 6-12 months of sweet spot training there is no where to go but down. Thanks for the video.

Are you too into cycling when you think this video title is clickbaity??? Great videos Dylan, I really get a lot out of them and they help me think about and reevaluate my training strategy.

Thanks for the science based training insights. I feel Zwift is similar where you seldom go super hard and never go super easy.

Excelent topic choice. Listened to it about 50 times...Will not find out anything new, and need to ride much for this to become important. But I feel good about myself and happy when i watch these kinds of videos :D

You are the best free coach ever !! And BACKWARD HAT Dylan too. 😊

Awesome overview! I've learned a lot here and now better understand where the 80-20 rule comes from

Great video Dylan. Isn’t the primary benefit from Sweet Spot the performance gains with limited time on the bike? Can you achieve the same benefits with Polarized training with the same amount of training time?

I enjoy your content Dylan.

That's super interesting! I'm in the Polarized training camp, using The Sufferfest, and I'm very happy with my progress.

Polarized everytime for me. Infact I rarely do any sweet spot or threshold at all unless racing or in a fast group ride. There is too much confusion when people mention zones because many people go by a three zone scale (triathletes or people who don't have a PM). 7 zone scale is best. Z1 is recovery, Z2 is endurance, Z3 is tempo, Z4 is threshold, Z5 is vo2 max, Z6 is anaerobic, Z7 is neuromuscular. Z3.5 being sweet spot, where tempo approaches threshold.

Bikenetic Falls Church, VA!!

I'm lucky to just get on the bike and ride!!! But I love this channel, even though I'm not even on the same continent of bike skill as Dylan.

Precisely what I got into after last weeks video: intriguing concepts, Thnx Dylan! My initial idea is: zone one is boring. I like to be entertained especially through spin class in winter were I make my initial acceleration and interval base, I miss those polarized accelerations and extremes on Zwift. My best approach is start with +45 min Spin Class (or two) is to do that first, and then follow that up with +30 minutes/fat burn recovery session and I want to emulate that on Zwift too, not quite succeeding as Zwift training programs are boring compared to Spin-class and Zwift free riding/racing often let’s you hold back on the maximum efforts in order to stay with the group and not overcook it. (even if they are difficult) So: my conclusion of the execution of it must be, I can only do the zone 1 work if I’m tired enough if else I’m bored and I start over performing no matter what. Doing zone 1 work on it’s own is therefore very hard to execute if you are feeling motivated. Doing Zwift (Group)rides don’t make you do the polarized/extreme training you need to. Personally I hate to much structure, I only started making real power gains when I got off the small gears and threw caution and moderation out of the window.

I used to coach strength athletes in olympic weightlifting and this is dead on what I used for programming my athletes and what USAW teaches it's coaches. Basically you live and train in the 75-85% range and touch the 92-98% range every once in a while during periodization and save the 100-105% for competition. It seems this is the sweet spot for stress and adaptation for strength or aerobic conditioning. I love science!

Hello Dylan, that contribution was really helpful. Thank you very much for such well balanced and thorough researched cycling expertise. Looking back onto my season, it's exactly what frustrated me.I've been quite "at it" but progress had been rather shallow. It seems that a substantial change in training structure is due. I see you've placed a link for training plans. That's certainly next step.

Thankyou for covering this! This has been a question I was wondering about for a while!

Great Video, very interesting topic. I try to add Blocks of Sweet Spot to plans, but rather replacing the 20% Zone 3 with Sweet spot. Keep up the great work!

Great video Dylan, very informative. One of the reasons why pyramidal and polarized might not show differences further strengthens the value of those long, tedious L1 rides. It takes a while to learn to do an endurance ride the way it's meant, staying the whole time below L1, not averaging L1 power with frequent spikes. In a proper L1 endurance ride after 3.5 hours is when things start feeling differently, and those 170 watts do start to feel heavier.

thank you man for this, now i am motivated for next season to do polarized training instead of doing some kind of sweet spot

Like others who have commented I think it would be great if the 3 zone model was mapped against power zones

Excellent video. Succinct. Very clear and well-organized. Thanks, Dylan.

I like to polarize my sweet spot training on the days I don't hit the sweet spot of my polarized training. Works for me!

Ah.. Zone 1... my favorite zone. Cool to see the Bikenetic logo.

Thanks for this video - I've been looking into that area for last couple weeks and struggle to made the decision. Thanks again.

Excellent work Dylan. Thanks, I'm going to check out one of your plans

Hey Dylan, Im getting a lot of mixed messages regarding what you recommend for this off season training. First you have a video talking about the importance of base training and to use sweetspot in that training and now you're suggesting to not use sweetspot. Could you make a video that just outlines the best winter training plan for someone who plans to race in the spring. Thanks and love the channel!

I've watched this a couple times and found it interesting and compelling. However, given that most of us who follow your advice have dismissed SS heavy plans and do the more traditional method; 2 or occasionally 3 HIIT/week, couple recovery days and a long day (or something like that), it would be interesting to consider polarized versus a typical plan you'd subscribe. After many years of Joe Friel's Cyclist Training Bible, I've been following Fast after 50 program pretty closely for a decade (race age - 62). I've been pretty happy with what I think is one of the best self-coaching methods and have had far more success than I deserve (in Cat Grandpa) but have completely fallen apart this year. Can't complete and interval set (often can't even finish the FIRST interval) to save my life. Desperately seeking a way to get back on track. Love your videos, thanks for doing all the research and presenting it coherently.

Thanks, Dylan! Merry Christmas!

Finally a bike guy who says polarized is good and be careful with sweet spot. YEA Dylan. I would bet pyramidal works best on short schedules,m like 5-6 hrs per week, but if i you are doing 10-12 hrs plus POL is better as it produces less cortisol. PS Dylan- every polarized training I have seen has you doing 5-10% of training at threshold depending on where you are vs racing season

Lots of overtrained people on TR based plan too

Wow. Nice hoodie! Bikenetic is a great shop.

But zone 1 training takes so long 😩 I’m trying to get back home and nerd on my stats on Strava 😳

You also have to take into account the amount of time the athlete has to train. IMO POL training only sees a benefit with me when I have a lot of time to train. If I want to get the most training load done in a week with limited time then sweet spot is the way to go. I also sprinkle in some V02 max/Anaerobic work every other week.

Love your content, slowly but surely moving to an 80-20 training plan myself.

Superb content as always. I´m really impressed with the effort you put into each of your videos - basically a bachelor thesis each week. Thanks alot for sharing that knowledge!

Polarised lines up with how i imagine our ancestors would hunt: Zone1: Stalking an animal slowly for a long time (over days) unitl it's fatigued then Zone 2: Make our prey dip into its Zone 3 testing its fatuge level Zone 3: High intensity to make the final chase to kill... I'm probably wrong but it sounds plausable lol

Great video. I can relate to these findings... Going from zwift training plans which are mostly sweet spot I felt fatigued and this led to poor performance and low motivation. When I switched to Mosley training plan on training peaks which follows the polarized approach I felt stronger and enjoying the nice n easy days. And looked forward to the high intensity days! However, the zone 1 training is very humbling and you need a lot of patience to improve that zone.

I feel like the key thing with this volume. Polarised is the best for those with more time but sweet spot might be better for time crunched athletes. At least that’s my understanding, sorry if you addressed this point in the video!

Quite interesting, thanks for looking at this.

YEAH - as a 16:07 5k PB Runner - I've actually done 80/20 for 4-5months now - Zone 1 - training this year with 1 day of hills and - YES - I can hit harder Tempo days and Race times w/ similar times as last year, very surprising...

Just LOVE this channel!! Thank you for all your work.

Good stuff as always, thanks!

Thanks for the video ... This question is something I have wondered about for a long time!

Now I'm in winter,,just short fast sessions...mixed in with a couple of endurance rides....not sure if it's right,,but I think it's right for me...another great informative video...cheers 😎

Interesting. Super helpful video. When I began reading into training science. A lot of people recommended doing similar efforts to the race I'm training for. This polarized method speaks against that.

Friendship ended with SWEET SPOT Now ENDURANCE is my best friend

Thanks Dylan! Top stuff as always. Man! This has huge implications for training, albeit I am not an athlete, most of my turbo training sessions are Zone 2. In fact, most Zwift training sessions are biased to sweet spot. Worth a rethink then! Cheers

Coincidently, the training regimen I'm doing now is what BHD is preaching. I do a set of two rides of 20 min high intensity rides with minimum IF 1.0 per day, with at least two hours of rest between the rides. (No warm-up, out the door and go as fast as the traffic conditions permit.) This way, I can drop a lot of cars along the way. You know, a drop is a drop even for a few seconds. BTW, that training session gets me to my favorite cafe and back home. I haven't experienced any significant performance gain though. ;)

My 2 cents - SS during base to build CTL when training volume less than 10 hours per week, then transition to polarised when approaching race season. I find without SS one loses too much muscular endurance which is critical for long road races, but polarised also critical for maximum V02 capability. All these things highly dependent on the athlete, their history, training status, and what training phase they are in...hence coaches being so valuable!

Always appreciate your pov and analysis. I often feel the scope of the studies tend to be narrow enough to produce value, but too narrow to take into account other significant factors. For example, if the athlete already had sufficient zone 2 fitness then one would expect them to show greater benefits from a polarized program. But if he/she had taken a year off and had essentially built up recent endurance base then we'd expect a sweet spot program to show a greater benefit in the short run. As an older runner turned cyclist I'm not sure if the Lydiard method is common knowledge in cycling, but I'm sure the concepts are well known. It would be interesting to hear your thoughts on how to apply a Lydiard program successfully over multiple seasons, which would address when to rebuild in zone 1, zone 2, and move into Polarized training, how to maintain that fitness within a season, and when to re-build again for a subsequent peak / season.

„80% of the time should be zone 1“. Cannot imagine that this approach makes sence in a low volume plan, if the longest rides you can do are 60-90min. If all you have is 3-4 x 60 min per week, then stick to sweetspot

Always thought that to increase FTP is to work at FTP. While zone 1 in 3 zone model is for heart and mido.. and zone 3 is for Vo2max