Very true!

Good theory. But I honestly don't think there is ANY CHANCE that Pon Holdings will tell the Santa Cruz Bikes product manager to switch motor brands because of a global relationship. Pon Holdings is good at company structure and financial P/L practices. Run a tight and profitable ship. The last thing they will and could do is tell the product experts how to build their product and choose this component over another. That is a sure way to kill a subsidiary and lose the best employees and category experts.

@@EMTBReview good point

Rrrrrright? Progress everywhere, everyday.

Yeah, you go back to the Norcal 3000 foot climbs and they are actually fun and manageable now. So do it twice and ride the next day too!

You wont see pinion until 2026-2027 at the soonest. None of their electronics are U.S. compliant and do not have a support network in place. This is information from US dealers and from pinion.

Very good share, thank you.

Absolutely agreed.

I know it's good when even I am entertained listening to my own banter.

I'm so, so stoked. My backdrop is rc's, drones, and a bike fork :)

My story exactly, Chris!

Yeah go Chris. Tell those skinny little race horses we are Clydesdale horses. I'm old and chunky and the ebike has kept me in the cycling game for longer. I prefer to ride the DH bike at gondola or lift assisted venues as this is an adrenalin rush every time you drop in compared to general cycling.

So very good to hear. Ebikes enable folks to get outside, to adventure, and to live

I just turn 65 and hoping to get 10 more years of emtb 😊😊

Most of the time I'm riding my MAHLE-equipped gravel bikes without ANY assist. Maybe I'm getting a better workout? BUT when I used to shift into the "granny ring" on my triple-equipped "acoustic" bikes for a steep climb it's LEVEL 1 now. And I don't fear "biting off more than I can chew" for a ride anymore if I'm short of fitness. I just go.. with the assist in reserve just-in-case. The piece-of-mind for this old geezer is priceless!

Thanks, will do!

You bet. They've really built up their infrastructure in the US. and they've evolved their products each and every year!!

Repairing and servicing are two different things.

Great to hear about Brose. Nice, rattle, free system. I hope they fix their belt issues though.

@@sijmes yep, i didnt evem want to mention repairing as Brose motors are repearable for a small amount... there was a video not long ago on embn about it if you need more info.

That's interesting. Cool they are trying to innovate.

@@EMTBReview the Brose mag 2.2 has been through years of development, while still not completely worry free, they have one of the largest networks for warranty, replacement and report from third party

@@EMTBReview also when do you think the USA market will get Pinion ebikes? The Nicolai looks awesome!

So very, very good to hear. The outcome is not in doubt. But how long is the issue as the battle is won region by region.

Good to see. I am in Canada and similar things happening here too, except that such trails are open to Class 1 e-bikes (pedal-assisted, speed-limited and no throttle) only. That is ok with me.

Very good company in terms of quality and value.

Yeah, Gen3 discounts have switched many folks over to the ebike camp. And gained them many new Specialized fans.

Shimano EP801 has 3 riding level modes. Bosch CX has 4.

@@EMTBReview encoder not ride modes.

What do you expect for a bike with a motor, that is totally fun to ride? The parts cost money. Either way keep shopping you’ll find a deal.

yeah, the msrp's need to drop. Their days are numbered for sure.

$10-$18k ebikes need to go away.

Not really went down quite a lot. You can get great machine for under 4k

Yes, but compare to a motorcycle 😮😮​@@kanutecarson1

Yamaha motors seem just ok. A version of it is used in Giant bikes. Seems robust and reliable but nothing special. Would love to see more updates and innovation from them.

We have 2 Yamaha PWX2 Giant Trance E+1 ebikes brought new at the beginning of 2019. They are a little noisier than other bikes but you get used to it and the good thing is you can hear the motor strain etc and adjust gears quickly. Mine is used harder than my wives one and at over 2000km i had the motor pulled apart and inspected. One of the 2 main bearings was just slightly rough so they were replaced. Also while it was apart the fibre drive cog was replaced with an oem one as a precaution. Total cost including labour was $700 New Zealand Dollars. Also the Panasonic battery was at 95% health. Goes really well but doesnt like a really high cadence.

Yeah, they are the dominant player since almost every bike manufacturer already got drivetrain parts from them.

When you're coasting down a very rocky, bumpy descent, the Bosch motor will rattle like there's a few loose ball bearings inside the motor.

Ha, ha... yeah, long-time mountain bikers are the worst. They dream of their glory days 20 years ago and refuse any kind of change even as their riding and health has really declined. At least they ride. What gets me is haters who don't even ride anymore.

I wouldn't say they're garbage but they are just so slow moving in terms of trends and innovation to address the need of the true enthusiasts.

@@EMTBReview Their brakes are garbage for sure...

@@kyledavis635 Yeah i put the shit M9000 so called brakes in the forking rubbish bin and brought HOPE TECH 3 E4 awesome awesome brakes

This post was made by the shimano hater gang

As far as the 'Inventory Problems'.... yes.

True that

Thank you very much for your input as it is appreciated. I feel like you would be in a much better position to compare the motors if you owned a bike with the Bosch CXGEN4. The Bosch GEN four is better, because of the following reasons: - The Bosch is faster and stronger. It has more torque iand pulls through a wider range off RPMs. -the Bosch motor has a better torque sensor with higher resolution. This allows it to turn on faster and delivers a more natural riding feel. -Bosch is more battery efficient and it has a couple modes that are automatic, and go from low assist to full assist, allowing less shifting of modes and less dependency on turbo mode. - Bosch now has 600 W our batteries and 750 W hour batteries. And these are compatible with the 250 W hour extender. Thus a rider can have 950 whours if they choose. -The switches and iPhone app of the bosch are better. They have wireless Bluetooth switches and battery indicators that are integrated on the bike frame top tube. They have various display options as well. Shimano is a good and reliable system but they are not progressing fast enough. The mid power options of Bosch, and there services support are key considerations as well.

@@EMTBReview I know the Bosch system very well as I own a orbea wild, gen 4. So I’m in a good position. All motors have good and less good stuff. When I received my Orbea I had to play with the maps because from stock it drained my battery out. This is like talking about brands etc each person and individual has different opinions and it all dependes on the riding style and what matters the most. If you do many climbs long rides you have to play with maps as well. Regarding the battery’s mine is a 900w. No need to have range extenders . All the best !

Do you work for Shinano?

@@PedroMartinsEnduro I wish my santa and YT cruz had bosch motors! The Shimano EP801 lacks torque and very inefficient ( have a Bullit and a Decoy). Not to mention that the bosch motor is much more quiet. So you have 4 ebikes (3 with shimano and 1 with Bosch)??? Your feedback in interesting because nobody I know (including myself) prefers the Bosch after riding one. The shimano is not bad but the bosch is just that much better IMHO.

@@mr2timer100 Like I said is all about riding preferences and ride styles. You cannot like it but is my personal opinion. Just ride! Peace!

Definitely a problem. We as ebikers need to call them out.

Absolutely!!!! That's an issue that puts many bikes out of consideration for the educated enthusiast thinking about the future of their ebike purchase.

Orbea Rise uses Shimano and has a range extender available.

@@burnx45 Urrun too

Good share, thank you. There are hardcore riders who will always ride and buy. There are many on the fringe too with other hobbies

Good to hear

Yeah, better range and they have options now with 750wh, 400, 630 and all compatible with the 250wh add on

Superior mode software too. EMTB and AUTO mode!

@@paulmaag6958 Yeah, the auto modes actually save battery and increase range. The reason is the rider doesn't become dependent and used to Turbo mode. Boost power is only used when needed.

Really huh? Introduced many years ago, Yamaha motors have very little penetration in the market.

Rrrrright? Great minds think alike

Here in Germany literally millions of normal e-bikes are used for daily commuting, shopping etc. Almost every brand moved to Bosch in recent years because they are the most reliable. They do it because the numbers tell them to.

This is the opposite of my experience with hundreds of ebikes and riders in my circle.