Thanks to Pádraig O'Kane @ Streetwise Guitar for doing this! Catch the full conversation right here ( kzfaq.info/get/bejne/mcyia92Q2N2oh3k.html ) and subscribe to his channel for other great interviews and lessons.

This is the funny thing about guitar players. No matter how good you are at one thing you always want to do the thing you can't do and even when you achieve it, it doesn't feel that cool anymore and then you find something else you can't do and you are in this permanent state of "why can't I play that? I suck"

"Thinking of picking techniques like a language" Holy crap, I'm a cave man that can only grunt and yell.

Outstanding analysis. It's clear Troy has totally assimilated all his investigations and analyses on a very wide but deep level. I really do feel Troy has fundamentally altered our knowledge of guitar plectrum technique like no-one else in history. I am so in awe of your effort and achievement and I thank you.

Troy's speaking as fast as he picks, that must be economy breathing 😂 but seriously thanks for all the things you've done to clarify the picking myth, as a violinist moving on to guitar the way you explain things makes a lot of sense. Probably the best if not the only. 👍

I had a great time doing this interview!!!! Thanks, Troy!

If we were to apply the standards of a "single picking technique" like economy or alternate picking to the fretting hand, the limitations of that strategy would immediately become obvious. Certain fretting/fingerings work significantly better on specific patterns. To deny that would force you to use "bad" fingerings, and the results would reflect that. The same is true for picking. I think it is best to learn a variety of picking patterns, and understand where they work best and why. Thanks

This was a great interview and talk! I watched the whole thing and I really enjoyed it! You are so right...every picking style has it's own rules and note setup and they all can work to improvise and play great music and no one style of picking is better than the other. Great to hear you talk about this stuff! :)

I've been blown away by the Troy stuff. This video is no exception - really makes you think. To enable full improvisation freedom, I practice patterns using the following: 1. Alternate picking, starting with downstroke 2. Economy picking starting with downstroke 3. Alternate picking, starting with upstroke 4. Economy picking starting with upstroke I'll usually spend 2 days on alternate picking and 1 day on economy (day 3). I aim for max speed on day 3, the economy picking day, and I'm always sold on the idea that economy is faster. But I think of economy picking as a chef using a microwave - you get your warm, ready to eat food but you don't get the satisfaction of cooking the meal (given by alternate picking).

Troy...this was a great interview to watch...I hope you consider doing more...you have a ton of insight to offer!!...rock on my brother!!!

I think that alternate picking can be defined as a subset of economy picking if you want to define alternate picking as a specific style. The problem is that I don't think economy picking is a rigidly defined style, it is more fuzzy. That being said, I think the important takeaway here is that economy picking means that you are primarily focusing on the notes you are playing, how you pick is determined by the situation and your specific style. The way economy picking gives you more freedom is that you aren't locked into a certain style, you can sweep pick, alternate pick, or do whatever you think makes the most sense in that particular situation. I think the main problem with alternate picking is that it is often taught as a method for fixing the issue of only doing down picks or up picks. There is no denying that it is better to pick in both directions at different times but the issue is saying that every second pick should be in the opposite direction. I also believe that pure alternate picking can help with timing in a sense but it also works to restrict your timing options just as much.

If you want a sound like alternate picking at any random position and the solution is bouncing techniques, make sure every odd numbers are downstroke.

Troy, you are a MONSTER player in your own right! Amazing technique!

I'm nearly 8 minutes in and the other dude hasn't had a chance but to say 2 words! LOLOLOL Edit.....I finished the video and the guy didn't say anything but "uh huh"......I'm hoping there's more to this conversation .BTW, I love Troy's content.

Troy, thank you for bringing the rigor of scientific analysis to the guitar community. You are fantastic at combining art and science, and that’s what music is, at the end of the day. Well done!

I needed this video. Thanks Troy!

troy: you should talk more about people who don't pick that much and are among the greatest improvisers: metheny, scofield, holdsworth, quayle, greg howe, ben eunson, tim miller, etc...

Some amazing information here 👏

Fantastic!!! Kinch is a fantastic guitarist in his own right, but also a great interviewer! Can't wait to see this!

german here: we have 4 cases also you're right except for some certain products like ketchup, nutella and cola which are regionally different masculine/feminine or neuter, we don't think about those things.

I totally agree with you. Economy picking is a bunch of words.

Troy's content is just too good. When Cascade came out 5 or 6 years ago, I just couldn't believe that there was content that good out there. And his platform has only gotten better and better. A little side benefit was that he introduced us all to the merits of the Gibson Nighthawk. Rock star.

You're the biggest scientist guitar ever had through the last decades, thanks for sharing your knowledge! 🙏

So Im an escape picker.Thx doc.Amazing infos.

I hope the other guy at least got to say "hello" :'D

Economy 4 life! It took my brain some time to rewire from years of alternate picking to economy picking, and there was a point in the middle where I couldn't do any of them at all, but now I feel like I have a freedom on the fretboard I never had before. I'm not even talking about speed, just the ability to easily change string no matter the direction of my last picking changed my approach to melody too.

It´s so obvious that the smarter way is learning both techniques as good as you can, and one thing you will learn by doing that is the better you get at one usually makes you better at the other. My economy started to sound a lot more accurate when I saw Troy´s videos and worked on my alternate using his approaches.

As an economy picker, this was great to hear. I regret nothing! Id rather just keep working in economy picking than try and get good at alternative.

Great interview Troy and Padraig! Enjoyed the full length quite a bit.

great and informative as always. thanks troy

If you love down-picking on the lower strings then you should try up-picking on the higher strings, and learn how to up-pick on the down beat. The motion is like pulling, and the attack looks like a chicken pecking.

👍👍👍 thanks Troy. I'm going to practice now 😁😁

Love your work!

This is so good. I feel like this is exactly my thoughts finally put in to words.

This is great. I talk about this with all my guitar need friends in nyc. How we don’t like rules when we play improv but we all use them without knowing

5:02 Totally agree. Maintenance is much easier than alternate picking. And I benefited from it after starting learning bass and learning the double thumbing technique. The hand movements translate very well.

I thought i couldnt play certain things because i didnt practice enough not because i economy pick wow this was eye opening and explained why i cannot play certain phrases

oh man i so wish this information was available to me when i was 15-16..would have saved so much time figuring all of this out, mostly by myself...anyways so glad we have this knowledge out now, thank you Troy!

This makes perfect sense. The goal of 'play anything, at any time, perfect accuracy" is a fallacy. It should not be the goal of any guitar player, and the younger you are when you learn this, the better. The music comes first, and the proficiency for your style is what should become the lifetime goal. Spending decades practicing to become perfect, somehow, is foolishness. Find out what works for you amd practice the best way to do that using these principles.

Man, this content is great! Can't wait to hop into the Cacking the Code train! During the interview, you mentioned these techniques taking you to different creative places. Do you write any music? You are by far the most knowledgeable player I've ever seen, and I'd love to see you put this knowledge to a good use. I bet you must be able to write some cool music. Also, thanks a lot for putting a huge ammount of content for free on KZfaq. This is the biggest revolution in guitar teaching ever. You rule!

Excellent instructional. Thanks :)

I started using economy picking when I learned Eric Johnson songs

i do a semi-alternate-economy picking thing where I would prioritize sweeping string changes whenever possible but when a sequence requires alternate picking I just do that. Also in contexts where sweeping is possible but alternate picking is favourable

It's a really good way but then you have everybody doing it that way then . But it's awesome that he really analyzed it down And good to here

I feel like Troy needs a hug today. 🤗 😂

Great point from the masterful POV.

This was so enjoyable, thank you

I spent 10 years forcing myself to play in alternate picking without ever succeeding in crossing the 120 bpm, 9 years ago instinctively I developed a technique which I did not know the name of at the time and which is called economy picking. Unfortunately, I wanted to force myself on alternate picking and I still can't pass 120 bpm in alternate, I reached 200 bpm in a month without difficulty in economy. I think I'll concentrate on what is the most instinctive for me, so economy picking

I'm not really sure I agree with this, and I'd like someone else to clarify if I'm wrong but... as far as I understand, alternate and economy picking aren't the only two ways to play using the pick only. There's also directional picking. Directional picking is different compared to economy picking because in economy picking you layout a picking sequence on a specific pattern to minimize motion, but in directional picking the only thing you're concerned about is whether the next note is on a higher string, a lower string, or the same string.. without worrying about what direction you're coming from. I.e you end a note on an upstroke and have to play a note on the string above it, you just sweep to the next one. If you have to play a note on the string above and you come from a downstroke, then you alternate pick it and skip the string you just played the note on. I do this, and although I'm not a virtuoso I've been able to get pretty decent at doing it to the point I think I would be able to get as fast as it's practical for a player using the same technique. On the same string you just alternate, then on a different string you either sweep towards it if the motion is already headed towards it or you skip the current string and continue the alternate motion towards the next one. And this is by just purely picking.. if you use legato you don't even have to skip it it's all about whether you want the machine gun string attack sound on the note or not. It's stylistic not a limitation.

Anton Oparin plays every lick in the world with alternate picking and it's always perfectly clean

Thanks for this Troy, I kind picked up on the playing while talking thing too, but you're aware of it and that's what makes you really cool. I saw another very good player kind of hint about Cracking the Code in an interview recently with someone else I greatly respect as a teacher and they were pushing the economy picking is king, or there is no such thing as pick slanting thing almost like they were taking a jab at you and your work. I didn't appreciate that very much because I see how open to everything you are and that's the way to really be great. They are all techniques to learn and add to your "bag of tricks" or as you say words and phrases to add to your vocabulary. It's better to be an open door than a closed one and there is no "one technique to rule them all" imo.

if anyone reads this then dont be afraid to use both coz it will keep the improv interesting by keeping different techniques, I mean who like listening to the same thing over and over during a solo anyway

I favour economy/inside picking because for me it's natural and doesn't take any thought. You can always escape with either a sweep or an inside pick movement. For me it just feels natural because it involves the least amount of movement.

Absolute genius....(sorry) - But Troy's analytic/articulation is epic - Thank you

All I can tell is my experience: After 15 years, I switched from economy to alternate picking. It was the best thing I ever made. My sound is cleaner, stronger, I play more on time, and I finally play faster. This is just my experience, nothing more. It took around 2 years for me to fully adapt.

I used to do economy picking naturally and was really good at it until a friend told me I need to do alternate picking only or I will be hurting my playing in the future. so, trying to learn alternate only, I ruined my technique. I hate alternate picking.

I agree that if you spend so much time and energy into obsessing on how you are picking, it takes time away from creativity.

About the german part, he is absolutely correct.

When will you break down Josh Meader's picking

The thing that works for me is a combo of alternate and sweeps. What really got the alternate picking down for me was picking trills and trying to do "picking trills" on a string change. The combination happened because i liked Marty Friedman/Jason Becker. So the pick direction started to not matter anymore. The alternate picking would allow me to escape into the sweep/economy picking

Troy. You should interview Josh Meader and Ben Eunson. Their techniques seem to be a different class of hybrid picking.

I’ve always just economy picked automatically.

Rather than a particular picking technique, the real problem that happens in this style of playing is a complete lack of rhythmic phrasing. Playing a pattern of unbroken 16th notes is not musical, expressive or interesting to the listener. This happens in both jazz and metal, and is the great weakness of that style of playing that causes some people to hate it. It’s robotic, not expressive. It just sounds like someone practicing. Meanwhile, those players often look down on, and talk down on blues, where someone like B.B. King is the opposite extreme, of pure phrasing and expression. Playing fast certainly has its place as a form of expression, but by itself it is nothing. Music is not a sport.

Sir can you talk about minimal movements of picking and fretting hand.Also is to avoid fatigue when playing faster like hand positioning etc thank you

now I'm proud to be an economy picker 😃

Great segment as always. Would love to see a video on Jimmy Page economy picking. Something I think that is integral to his style and licks

Awesome 💯

You could easily use a photo of the guy in the right side of the screen and the video would have the same impact.

Would love to see a video on Vinnie Vincent

Ah the great debate! Alternate vs economy.... (what about directional picking. It's kinda economy picking) Caged vs 3nps... I personally like a healthy balance of everything.

Troy……….. That intro lick….VERY cool! But as a long-time alternate picker, my hand has a tendency to resist when attempting economy picking. Any tips how to get past that? I also agree regarding having both techniques (at least) under your belt.

Wow, I guess use both that’s a great improviser!

Picking technic...I like em all !!

Damn it I suddenly need to stop everything and pick up my Guit-Fiddle and PRACTICE... 40 hour a day!

let's add a comment here on how do you play The Final Countdown solo on the arpeggios part, Economy or Alternate?

How many times a year does Troy Grady have to replace a volume pot?

I try to practice both, that way I can develop "convenient picking" and be able to play either Paul Gilbert or Eric Johnson without thinking.....if it's possible....

I use upstroke escape when going from lower to higher strings but sownstroke escape when going from higher strings to lower. Anyone like me?

With alternate picking you can go up and down at will. You gotta check out my guitar playing.

This is an incredible talk Troy! I wanted to ask you something about choosing picking techniques: I’ve noticed with a standard sized-pointy pick I find it easier to play with DSX motion and with Jazz III XL for some reason it’s easier for me to play with a downward pickslant. I remember your recent video on choosing picks and this made me think about how a different pick can change what I thought as an unchangeable part of my technique. Do you have any thoughts on this?

So you can’t just ‘pick’ one? It depends! Wow Troy I’ve followed you over some time and I think you are playing better and smoother on some of those super riffs. Nice!

help with inside picking

I'm the guy who has no idea if he's alternate or economy picking because It changes

Troy Grady changed the way I play guitar. I actually can’t thank him enough

As a person with a BA in linguistics and a guitarist this hits home for me!!!

Going to throw my 2 cents worth in to the conversation. From what I can see, the typle of picking is heavily influenced by the type of music you are wanting to play. For instance i don't think Ive ever seen an accoustiv Bluegrass player using the economy method, it just wouldn't sound right. Also fomr what I can see is economy pickers rely on distortion/sustain to acheive the fluid nammer-ons and pull-offs which lends it self to specific genres and much harder to achieve with clean tones.

Lol playing all day long is probably the biggest factor in picking like this. It does help to analyze the biomechanics, up stroke vs down, correcting bad technique, blah blah blah but it all comes back to putting in the work. Dumping a wife and collecting unemployment can facilitate.

Hey Troy, if I'm a DSX player I can't play the Eric Johnson's 5 note pattern? I came up with up down, up down and hammer from nowhere and it seems to work. I tried to play with a USX motion and it's pretty awkward to play the pattern and if I try to play it fast right away it's start to fall apart.

Welcome to the ‘Speedball’ picking technique. Now where’s that extra Adderall I had laying around…

Wish that website could get you playing like that instead of just showing it off

I always use alternate picking for everything not because it's superior or smth but in order for me not to scramble about switching picking styles. Other than that, I am also trying to learn picados though this is for flamenco.

When you economy pick, does your index knuckle hit the strings? I have always used a flat finger grip, (sort of like Morse but gripping Index instead of Middle) when I alternate pick. I have been trying to get used to economy picking, with a curled index like yours (I realized my normal grip doesn't work for economy picking), for perhaps 15 years. Just can't stop hitting the string with my index when I do, and it drives me crazy. Your ability to use all grips, and multiple approaches is amazing. I have been a decent alternate picker since I was a teen, but economy gives me a hell of a time. I see people always talking about how much easier Economy is, but my hands hate it.

Do you have a lesson pack on economy picking in your website?

What's your preferred style, Troy?

Seems like Troy absolutely forgot about legato playing and hybrid picking, thinking only about how to pick everything with plectrum.

Troy is like a mix of Ben Shapiro and yngwie malmsteen

Waiting for Martin Miller chime

There’s 4 cases in German.

legato

How many guitar players does it take to install a light bulb? One. But all the others will tell you how they could have done it better.