It may be a new production but most of the designs, apart from the grip module, is early 1900's design

Series 80 1911s have resolved that problem since the 80’s, so a solution has existed for a long time, too. For 1911s, it’s always been a choice between full drop safety or a better trigger, with people debating the merits of both. Evidently, a lot of handgun owners know absolutely nothing about 1911s so this entire topic is brand new to them.

Some people wrap their entire identity up into the things they like/own/do, so it feels like a personal attack when someone says or does something that goes against those things. 🤷‍♀️

That made me exhale out of my nose

Well put.

Para Ordnance (and later Remington) made double stack 1911 frames that were Series 80, so if you decide to go the custom gun route it’s a path forward for a double stack Series 80 (since Paras have a mixed reputation out of the box. You might get a good one or you might get a lemon). They’re not made anymore but you can find them fairly regularly on places like Gunbroker for not too significant of a price. That’s what I did with my custom 1911. My main reason for choosing that frame over the more common 2011 frames these days was actually magazine capacity in .45ACP (15+1 flush fit and 18+1 with extensions, something no 2011 mag anywhere offers regardless of cost), but having the Series 80 components was something I liked as well. It does make for a slightly worse trigger (albeit still far superior to any non-1911 trigger) but does have the benefit of max drop safety like any other modern handgun.

Say what you want about 2011s but they don't go off in holsters the way sigs do.

To be fair the drop issue on the sig was worse. It would go off when dropped on the back with the barrel pointing up, something a series 70 or CZ shadow would never do.

While on the one hand I agree with you, I would also point out that Sigs would fire when dropped on their back, sending a bullet upwards into the air, instead of down into the concrete like a 1911/2011.

@@mattwhite7421 I would say that a CZ Shadow (which doesn't have a firing pin block) very much can go off if it's dropped on its hammer, while it's resting against the firing pin with a round chambered (the ready condition in IPSC/USPSA production). More likely if it has an extended firing pin with a reduced firing pin spring.

@@Blackstone9x19 I've seen videos of people putting them in a vice and hitting the hammer with a mallet and it won't touch the primer with the stock firing pin but an aftermarket one would dent the primer. But that's not the fault of CZ, that's a modified gun.

Why specifically Series 70? Why would it be different with a Series 80?

Most 1911s are not drop safe, unless they’re a series 80. Unfortunately the triggers on series 80 guns are horrendously bad.

​@@atypical-bass1966I wouldn't say they're "horrendously bad", but they're definitely aren't as good as a series 70. Series 80s still have better triggers than the majority of handguns on the market, and can be tuned and polished to nearly as good of a trigger as a well tuned 70 series. A well tuned 80 series just takes more work to get there, and manufacturers like Stacatto aren't going to put all of that work in. Series 80s with incredible triggers are out there. You're going to pay out the ass for it, though.

It’s not just dropping it any way, it’s a certain way.

ALL* 1911s with good triggers are not drop safe

@@zues287Jesus Christ loves you so much and died for your sins🖤✝️

Oof. Sunk cost fallacy in action right here.

Well, I've also got my LTT PX4 ;p

@@Rdctd6969came here to say exactly this. The mental gymnastics are astounding

Simply get your new firing pin and spring and shoot your gun and carry it worry free. I understand this being a duty/law enforcement issue but if youre not then do whatever you want to make your gun safer or better. It will not make it impossible to fire if dropped but it will require such a high drop in order to go off that it can't really occur unless you drop it from 15 or 20 feet or so if not more maybe. Some companies such as springfield produce 1911s that come stock with a more drop safe firing pin and spring. This is what a lot of 1911 guys do and just something you should try to take into account if you love the platform and want to carry it. I wouldn't worry too much about it but it's a very easy inexpensive fix and probably worth doing.

Don’t listen to these fools. The series 70 has been used by cops and military personnel since its inception. We still use them. Cops constantly have negligent discharges with SA/DA and striker fired guns, that’s not because they dropped the gun.

And plenty still use them to this day, not an issue.

😂

What about a hi point? 1/20th

We knew it wasn’t drop safe, everyone that owns 70 series 1911 knows this. It’s a very specific drop, not just any way.

Series 80 1911s are also drop safe, so a Para Ordnance frame gun would have the double stack 1911 concept with a firing pin block, and still had a far superior trigger to any Glock.

I’ve watched a few of his videos and he has interesting commentary. Seems balanced. I’m disappointed that he’s not bigger on KZfaq.

It also makes sense from an additional safety perspective. Not having a round in the chamber means that if you grab the long gun and the safety is off, hitting the trigger doesn’t cause an AD. I keep my home gear the same way.

No. No. This goes beyond people not having basic mechanical knowledge. I knew what Series 70 is. I knew Staccato P does not have firing pin block. However, the promoters of the pistols said stuff like, "Passed many agencies' drop tests...blah blah." So, do not try to pin this one on "Ignorant Newbies not knowing their own gun, not knowing what Series 70 is...blah blah." It is the promoters who are responsible for insinuating that this pistol would be different.

Jesus Christ loves you so much and died for your sins🖤

Jesus Christ loves you so much and died for your sins🖤

I agree but is the shirt drop safe?

I believe there are incidents of those going off though. I believe they call it a "slam fire."

This is why is is so critical that the rifle be pointed in a safe direction when charging.

@@NDcompetitiveshooterI didn’t know it was possible until a swat guy told me it had happened to him. To be fair, the same guy took an AR in that he had never fired, didn’t “need” it, and only found out about an issue later at the range testing suppressors.

@@davereloader8837I changed my training to make this part of it.

The cci400 small rifle primer cups are softer than most and are more suitable to slam fire. Use the 450 magnums if you are a reloaded. For any semi auto rifle

Nothing

I think we'd all love to see that.

Kimber went to shit in the early 2000s. That’s my thought

There is no other manufacturer that use the Swartz system to my knowledge, and for a good reason. I have dealt with a Kimbet with one, and I have nothing good to say about Swartz. It makes that so called "grip safety" that I hate even more funkier. That moment when you feel as if your trigger barely scratching past the grip safety internal block when your grip is not perfect. Now it also does it with the firing pin block. Also, having a firing pin block disengaged the whole time you are gripping the pistol does not make sense to me. I would much rather choose Series 80 which never gave me any problem.

The problem with the Swartz firing pin block safety is you need to fully depress the grip safety in order for the gun to fire, which isn’t really conducive with modern shooting techniques. There’s a reason modern 1911 grip safeties are sensitized with a hump on the bottom, all so you can disengage the safety and fire even without fully depressing it (and even then, a lot of people resort to rubber banding the safety). The Colt Series 80 trigger deactivated firing pin block is far more reliable, of course at the cost of a mushier, lower quality trigger. But in guns, reliability is king first.

My dad was a door gunner in nam, he said a gun was too easy and was into archery.

@@HWG-wm8ld Door Archer, that's the real soldier's job. lol

Those boys in Vietnam were the last of a certain type of man. I knew a guy who flew Dust Off in Vietnam, and I’m surprised those boys could walk. JD would talk about getting flak like it was just Tuesday. Turns out, it was.

It does become an issue when the promoters of this gun kept saying "This gun passed drop tests of major police departments..." pretending it would be different.

AFAIK every AD involving the Shadow 2 has happened with a gun that has been modified with an extended firing pin and lighter springs. The S2 in its stock configuration appears to be safer if dropped. Ben did a drop test with a Shadow not too long ago. Search his previous videos to see him discuss the results.

Para ordnance. They are no longer in business but you can still find them around. I have 3 and they're all excellent.

Seconded the Para Ordnance frame. Built my custom gun off that frame and it was a Series 80 frame. That being said, no competition specific guns are Series 80, since Series 80 does have a mushier trigger due to part of the trigger pull being the disengagement of the firing pin block (this is also why most 1911 aficionados prefer Series 70). It’s not 100% drop safe, but the risk is very unlikely and the gun shoots better, which for them is a worthwhile tradeoff. Whether that is the case for you will depend, but if you want maximum drop safety, get a Series 80 frame.

@@gameragodzilla Para had a bunch of lines of competition specific guns. The original builder frame kits were certainly marketed more towards competition shooters than anything else. When they started selling full guns around 1990 they very quickly made series called the "Limited" specifically for IPSC limited division. I have a stock early p16 limited in 40 s&w. It is series 80 and has about a 2.5lbs trigger with like no take up and an extremely clean break and mouse click reset. No trigger work ever done to the gun, never even adjusted the pretravel or over travel bc it was perfect out the box. It is a better trigger than most series 70s I've shot. They also had the Todd Jarret pistols, The pro custom series/the thommassi pro custom, eventually they were even making a line of specific single stack guns for Wild Bunch competitions. All of them were series 80. In my experience series 80 doesn't inherently mean bad trigger and its also worth noting there's many variations of series 80 with many companies doing it differently (kimber for instance does some weird stuff and also uses a swartz style safety) and also that when the series 80 came to be a lot of the series 80 guns being sold were cheaper more budget line guns (think along the lines of the colt 1991) and that they wouldn't have come with nice well tuned triggers to begin with anyways. This was also after colt had some legal issues iirc with the guns being drop safe and I think they started selling more guns with heavier triggers to avoid liability anyways even with having the series 80 design. In my experience my series 80 paras all have excellent triggers.

@@ChuckSneed88 Yeah and my custom Para frame 1911 does have a really excellent trigger as well, though I can still feel some of the mush before hitting the true wall and a nice clean break. With that said, I still found that a super tuned Series 70 trigger will be better than an equally super tuned Series 80 trigger. That’s just simple physics, hence why I understand people preferring Series 70. But you’re right in that Series 80 1911s can be made to still have excellent triggers, far and way superior to any striker fired pistol, while also having a firing pin block. It’s also why I wanted my custom 1911 to be Series 80 and one of the reasons I opted to get a stripped down Para Ordnance frame.

Look mr science, it’s all series 70 1911s….all brands. Find me a story of a cop or mil guy that dropped their 70 series 1911 and it went off. Then search for NDs from cops with SA/DA and striker fired drop safe guns….they go off with not being dropped.

@@HWG-wm8ld I don't know any mil guys I only know moa guys

Correct. The only thing preventing the firing pin from hitting the primer is the firing pin return spring. If this thing falls muzzle down fast enough, the pistol stops and the firing pin keeps moving.

He knew this would happen. More NDs happen with striker guns when not being dropped, just by user error.

@@HWG-wm8ld That has nothing to do with the discussion though. There are less car accidents in antarctica than in the US....

Sure it does.

He'd have to ban like 80-90% of competition guns including all of his own, lol.

Only as long as it isn't modified, not involving far weaker springs and extended firing pins. It could pass. The modified one already got an RO to the grave being dropped on the hammer.

He did that one already

Drop every gun you own?

@@HWG-wm8ld I do, thankfully beretta's have drop safeties.

@@FabianStrategy-76 and what happened

Gorilla glue, get with the times.

He will do every gun he owns

@@HWG-wm8ld does he own a c2 lol

I was being sarcastic.

Get some education on the different series. There is a reason.

@@HWG-wm8ld well have you shot a series a good series 80 and 70 side by side ? Because I have. Its an excuse normally by companies is the tiger is way batter in the series 70. But I grew up shooting 1911 , my dad had both series 70 and series 80 from colt and there was not a very no much of difference since colt did their job right back then when they use to care ,the reality is just companies bs costumer and tell them all this stuff so they can get away with selling a gun with less manufacturing hrs cost and have a higher profit .

CA roster was never about safety.

@@echo_research_and_developmentCurious, what is it about???

@@chrisharris6834 Control. To hassle gun owners. It even required technology that does not even exist in any feasible form to put new guns on the list.

@@echo_research_and_developmenthaha that actually makes a lot of sense more so than safety.

I’ll repeat, do you have any clue how many cops and military personnel have used series 70 1911s since 1911? They have negligent discharges all the time with SA/DA and striker guns all the time.

Damn dude, you that insecure? If it’s a modern gun it’s fine. You are the one that makes a difference. And there are better weapons than others. Post what you have on here, I’m sure it’s not some one off gun.

@@HWG-wm8ld not insecure about it all LOL I just know he’s a tough critic but that’s why I appreciate his opinion. And actually some of the parts are completely one off, because I had them designed and machined myself. (Trigger bar and fully adjustable trigger) it’s a custom P365 FCU with upgraded tigger and all springs replaced. Mischief Machine Macro+ commander grip module with G10 grips, custom machined 365XL slide with upgraded springs, Parker Mountain Machine barrel and comp that fits flush with the XXL frame, DPM recoil kit, Align Tactical mag release, Holosun 507k, TLR-7sub with Anitmatter Industries micro wing, and Tactical Development +2 basepads. The shorter trigger bar and fully adjustable trigger combined with all the spring work and the hours of polishing, it’s got a super clean 2.7lb break with zero take up and a short fast reset. Personally I think my build is what the 365 Legion wishes it could be. Like a mini striker fired Staccato XC lol but I’d love to know how he feels about it. I’ve got over 8,000 through it and it’s definitely reliable, safe, and accurate.

Way too much to read. You need some education and training.

@@HWG-wm8ld lmao 🤣 I’ve been a gunsmith for 20 years and I can guarantee you that I shoot more than a handful of people you know combined. I’ve got both already, education and training 😅 and a degree in gunsmithing. How do you think I designed my own trigger setup 🤦🏻‍♂️ What do you have?

@@HWG-wm8ld too many words with more than 4 letters? I understand 🤣 don’t ask questions if you don’t want the answers. Besides, my comment was for Ben anyway 🤦🏻‍♂️ nobody asked you lol

Fair, but how many stories have you heard from cops and mil guys that their 1911 went off when they dropped it? Since 1911… They have NDs all the time with their SA/DA and striker drop safe guns, that’s not being dropped. A 1911 isn’t for people that are not committed to their craft.

@@HWG-wm8ld I can't remember hearing about a series 70 going off from a drop but that's kind of my point. It's a very rare thing. NDs are a more common and prevalent issue than drop safety.

I was agreeing with you bud

I’m sure they find my G5 an entry level private aircraft. No, I don’t, but I’m making a point.

It's the entry level DUTY handgun. Anything cheaper and youre in prodigy/bul armory territory. 2011's are just an expensive platform altogether.

I have heard the green dot is a fairly large negative under NODs as well. Has been the reason I have been given why most guys doing night work, SF, ect, have remained using red dots only.

i run green dots, and it has not been my experience of them washing out while scanning tree's/foliage etc. ive done it several times just to see.

Wrong about under nods in many ways.

This has been my experience in the bright NC summers. Everything is a shade of bright green. Sun through foliage can be very bright green. Maybe not a problem for somebody who always shoots against berms or in desert, etc.

You need remedial English

Why would they, this is not surprise except to those that don’t know about their weapons.

You don’t understand what’s the issue. It’s the design in series 70 1911s. Find me a story of this happening outside of purposefully dropping it on an exact point.

I get the issue but they use a lighter pin in upgrades so it weight doesn’t strike primer with force

Lighter pins cause light primer strikes. There is nothing wrong with a 70, period.

$2500 simple Jack

Either way, if I buy a duty gun for that price, I expect a FAR better gun in all respects than my Canik.

Such an idiotic comment that people keep repeating. A pistol has never won a war. We have continued to use 1911s to this day, did the 1911 win the 20 plus wars since ww2?

@@HWG-wm8ld Still not worried about drop safe and 19/2011s. Sorry the sand in your vag is acting up.

Damn, that was funny! Guess he is the platoon commander of red beard? Is that a video game?