Being a casual shooter I just can't afford trouble like this. No Sigs, no Shield Arms Magazines, no high speed aftermarket triggers.

Sigs are sentient and can feel your vibes, which is why they go off in holsters. Watch out guys.

We see same shit in classes and people get so butt hurt because they spent a bunch of money and are embarrassed to admit it has an issue

Its sort of like looking at the Boeing 737 Maxes crashing back when that was a thing and going "well, nobody has demonstrated a failure mode which would cause that, so that means the plane is safe". No, the fact that nobody has demonstrated a failure mode which would cause the plane to crash doesnt mean we didnt just watch it crash, it just means we dont know what to fix to make it stop doing that.

Sig molded the ejector as part of the FCU frame in the 365 and 320 without making sure there was a consistent over-insertion prevention in place for magazine longer than the gun. If you slam one home on a slidelock reload, you're likely to bend your ejector into non-functionality. Sig will graciously replace it for a nominal fee of $150 though. Such a great design

I am also predisposed to like Sig. I used to bet my life to Sig. I carried a 226 for years and had a DGU with it. I built out a P320C as a new carry piece. That video has shaken my faith. I like the 320 but I'm not risking my fuckin nutsack. I've since switched to a PDP compact. Sig needs to redesign that pistol.

I have 4 p320s the original x5 with practice and uspsa matches over 45 000 rds in 4 yrs. 1 new slide and 1 new barrel never has gone bang w/o pulling the trigger. ???? So I don't know how to feel about them. I have 1 p320 legion, 1 p320 RX , 1 p320 compact, 1 original p320 x5

Torsion from a holster causing a discharge is wild

People get very sensitive about the stuff they spent money on. They’re not just invested monetarily, but emotionally.

7:53 In my mind i it’s that way with anything,that’s why I’ve been spreading Matt Pranka and Ben Stoeger as a go to as coaches for shooting, to my LE friends to single dads at the work place they have moral standards. Something I think many young men need to have and these two men and the men they surround themselves with are the modes we need.

I hear the marching of pitch forks and torches coming for you LOL

Just catching up, but I agree. Just because it hasn't been proven in court, means nothing. (And I saw this as a civil trial attorney). The way you keep something from being "proven in court" is to settle the case before it goes to trial and insist on a confidentiality agreement with the plaintiff. Example for those old enough to remember, back in the day, the Ford Pinto had a reputation for being a gasoline bomb if struck from behind. The Chevrolet Vega had the same problem, but Chevy, unlike Ford, settled all the cases before trial.

Mine blew up. Was blamed on reloads. I was using 700x 4 grains. Double charge over fills the case spills powder, I would have seen this. Yes it could have been a weak case, but what about all the pictures of bulged cases with factory ammo. The gun has way more problems than other guns, has to be a reason.

I have seen a few out of battery detonations. I own an indoor range. I have not seen any go off on their own. All the ones I have seen have been out of battery blows out mag extractor goes flying slide and frame damage. Maybe the ammo stops the sig from going into battery but the sig fires and sets off the round out of battery.

I think Sig 320s are especially susceptible to “holstering" issues because they lack a Glock-like trigger safety, so unintentional friction can activate them in oddball situations like that recent incident, maybe especially if the gun was made prior to their "recall" for drop firing issue or whatever that was. P.S. Safariland issued a statement Aug 2021 about one of their duty holsters not properly retaining 320s under certain conditions with some versions of Surefire light attached (“discovered during internal testing”).

I bought a DH3 at a good price and it’s a great shooting gun. That said, you should never invest your ego in any piece of equipment. I’m disturbed by the trend and everyone should strip bias and emotion out of any assessment with a potentially deadly tool.

Always been a Walther fan and now that they've fixed the slight slide compression deactivating trigger 'feature' I'm all in

Thank you, Ben! For all you SIg fanboys who disagree let me ask you this. Why is it ONLY the P320 that is having all of these issues? Why isn't it Glock, S&W, Walther, Ruger, etc? It's simply a terrible internal design, period.

I love my X5 Legion, love it! I think it’s the best shooting Handgun I own, even better than some of my custom 1911s but I went out and bought a Shadow 2 and transitioned to the CZ for USPSA not necessarily because of the problems but because Sig has not provided an explanation. If they want to bury their head in the sand, fine but I’ll be shooting my Glocks and CZ from now on.

Thank you for the info and honesty.

Its almost impossible for a malfunction to happen by means on something inside the holster. That can only happen if there is no trigger guard on the gun. The trigger guard enters the holster first and if something was inside it will jam on the trigger guard first and not even get to the trigger. "Holster malfunctions" are due to user error and having finger on trigger when holstering. Guns going off inside a holster is most def a sig320 problem only

Sig has treated their loyal customers as beta testers for years this is nothing new. Will people learn and stop supporting them? Not likely.

I retired my 320 and went back to my 226s. I can't sell it because I don't trust the gun. I can't shoot it because I don't trust the gun. I can't ask Sig to fix it because I don't trust Sig. I could spend a ton of money and end up with a gun I still wouldn't completely trust. I'll save that money and just shoot my 226s and Glocks. The 320 will become a forever safe queen. At least I can trust it there.

I saw the early promo for the 320 pistols and i was stoked! I still dont own a 320 as all the stories made me balk. I do own 3 Sig Pistols, one 0365 X and 2 P226 !

320 have been one of the best feeling and capable shooting guns in my hands the few times I’ve shot them but ever since dropgate I’ve written off all Sig guns, been tempted a few times - glad I’ve held off on purchasing any. They are great shooters though.

To the uninitiated, you've probably not considered the post deskpop holstered cook-off theory.

Agree with this 100 percent

Realness and honesty is king and that’s why I respect Ben.

Although not a SIG, I had a 2011 that was on safe after being placed down and facing down range discharge. No one was near it, and it never happened again. I’m not saying it’s a common thing, I have hundreds of thousands of rounds through 19/2011 type firearms, and many more I’ve seen fired, but it proved to me that a gun can fire on it’s own, though very rare. It spooked me enough to switch to a Glock for 3-gun. I have never owned a Sig, But when the first reports came out about 320s firing on their own, I looked at the internals to understand the design and what might be a contributing factor. I feel like I was able to immediately identify at least something that can contribute to this happening. Unlike a Glock, the Sig 320 doesn’t complete the tensioning of the striker spring by the action of the trigger pull. It’s fully cocked by cycling the slide and remains fully cocked even with no rearward pressure on the trigger. Since the striker is preloaded with enough mechanical energy to set off a primer, this leaves the striker block as the only thing to prevent a discharge if the sear fails. I can see that that is highly unlikely to happen, but with so many 320s, if it’s possible, it’s going to happen.

I had a long extractor 2014 production P229R. In 3000 rounds, the exact same failure (failure to extract) occurred 26 times with various magazines and different factory ammo. Nothing helped - I installed a new extractor/spring, and even bought a complete replacement slide but the malfunctions still happened. The Sig CS rep told me "oh that's not that many" failures. Well crap, not trusting my life with this then. It is an exercise in frustration to figure out which updates Sig has done to a platform. Got a Glock and never looked back.

Ben, what are your thoughts on M&P 2.0s? Their track record seems to genuinely be rivaling Glock at this point, and torture tests by various respectable GunTubers have proven to be quite impressive, even outperforming Glock and CZ. Great ergos, absolutely rock-solid in construction, and of course Smith is an ardently pro-2A American company.

Note how you dont see CZs blowing up or going off unintentionally

Nothing gets a reputation for no reason.

Being a blind fanboy of any brand unless they have done something personally for me or put money in my pocket is dumb. I pay them. They work for me. It’s not the other way around.

Who knows what’s really going on but there sure is a lot of smoke. I’ve been heavily invested in Glocks for over 15 years so the 320 never really appealed to me. There wasn’t a problem that the 320 was solving, FOR ME, that was worth transitioning to a new platform.

Ben do you still like and recommend stock IIs?

I work with a buddy and he is Sig all the way. Like you said he gets emotional and has every excuse why this is happening. What is funny to me is why is it only happening to Sigs at such a high rate. No one knows. 🤷🏻‍♂️

I wonder how much of this issue is caused by what I call "PSA syndrome", basically them having so many SKUs and contracts causing QC issues. I hope they can fix it.

Has anyone seen these issues come up on the Wilson Combat complete guns? e.i. do they have a "custom" enough of a top end to avoid this stuff or is it inherent to the design?

Seen any issues with the P365?

🇺🇸

Guns going off “on their own” and AI coming out around the same time.. coincidence? I think not.

I have personally seen 1 blow up in a match...

As a former military cop, who carried a loaded duty weapon every shift (M9), I may be a little bit more passionate about military sidearms than other military members who who also may be issued them. For military cops their sidearm is literally day in and out a tool that they may have to defend others or their lives with THAT SHIFT. Because of this, I was extremely disappointed to hear that Sig was selected as the new military sidearm based on price point and not necessarily merit. This descision seems even more of egregious when considering the rumor that Glock actually won, despite a sweetheart RFP that favored Sigs novel new platform, seemingly having been purposely written guarantee Sig the win from the outset. It is unfathomable to me that the Sig design was chosen to replace the Service pistol lineage of the 1911, Beretta M9 and the possibility presented by the Glock, which, as a reminder, had already been proven iover a couple of decades in combat with special forces units. Why the military selected a design completely new, not just to the manufacturer, but to THE WORLD, is absurd and clearly displays the corporatism that has infected our government. Well, I hate that our service members are stuck with this piece of junk and also I am extremely dismayed for anyone injured, hurt, or worse by this product, I am otherwise gleeful each and every time I hear about one of these events regarding this abomination of a pistol. It is the deserved outcome of the adage that you "get what you pay for."

Were the failures in the Model 320?

It’s the manual safety, M17/M18 is very reliable, not P320 without manual safety…

Had a couple sold both, wanted to like them just didn’t suit me. Too many issues people have reported from good sources. To each their own

I didn’t know sigs blowing up was a thing.

Any chance the p365 has the same issues as the p320?

I have several of the 320... I do agree with you but I'll keep shooting mine. Will you still allow them in your classes?

I think there is the possibility of tolerance stacking causing issues with individual guns. The striker design and firing pin block are unicorn designs d/t it being a retrofit of the p250, so they are not using the proven designs almost everyone else is. The p365 is a more conventional design. If nothing else, I see the p320s malf more than others.

Sig stands for self-injuring gun, since they go off on their own!!!!!! I would NEVER own one!!!!!!

But people who own Glocks usually change everything as well….

People with zero mechanical understanding spouting off problems.. The actual mechanical engineers and engineers in the gun industry say a 320 can’t go off without a trigger press

My theory is that it’s a metallurgy problem. These can be difficult to diagnose. Sig gets parts from vendors. Are those parts made as per the required specs.? Does Sig call out hardness of material? Does Sig QC the parts prior to assembly and shipping out. Not the gun but the parts before it’s called a gun? Too many other good options over a Sig.

I like the fact that you don't claim to know everything and adjust your opinions accordingly. We need more people like you who speak facts instead of defending Sig 24/7. I dont understand the brand loyalty thing either.

Sig def has an incentive to lie about their product when there's millions (billions?) of dollars at stake in their Mil contracts.

If you own a semi auto hand gun and say I can’t field strip a Glock. I don’t trust you to mow your own lawn. Better way to say I’m not an armorer. Don’t own a sig hand gun btw.

Sig is a junk company. They used to be my favorite when I first started getting into guns around 2010. I think 4 of my first 6 handguns were Sigs, 2 of them being West German. But since then they’ve steadily been getting worse at design and QC every year. It’s no longer a top-tier company, but they still command top-tier prices. Most of their competitors are not just better, but cheaper when you compare apples to apples.

If the defence is, its not proven in court, ok. But its proven in real world, so what! Holy shi. It just blows my mind. Arrogant MFs. We all know why SIG is defending their position with any means it may be. We are talking huge money loss. I would go as far to say, maybe the end of SIG.

Concerning misfiring, in engineering there is something called corner cases. This can be an aggregation or combination of part tolerances, ammo, external stresses, etc. that can lead to unwanted failures/results. Corner cases can also develop with wear and tear due to changing part tolerances. Corner cases should not happen at all and if they do occur, it should be a very rare instance. Corner cases can be difficult to model and detect. It would be good for Sig to chime in and share the experiments, tests, modeling, etc. they have performed to diagnose the problem.

Bruce Gray's behavior during all this has been disappointing. "Nobody has demonstrated a failure mechanism of the P320," is a really weird position to take for a mechanically minded guy. If you're a mechanically minded guy (aka, nerd) you KNOW that weird shit that doesn't make sense is guaranteed to happen regardless of whether or not you have a theory as to why it's happening. There IS something up with the 320. The people who are running around telling everyone there's no problem with the 320 are telling me a lot more about themselves and SIG than they are the 320.

"Which" P320s are problematic? There are lots of different P320's -- Nitron, M18, XFIVE, AXG, SPECTRE, XTEN. For those who have been following the specific cases, are ALL of these models problematic? Are some of the models, like the XFIVE Legion, safer than others? Thanks for any insights!

Sig. the Foreign Trojan Horse Gun Company. Hey America? Maybe don’t put all your Military Guns in one company?

#signade

Sigs response is "not ahh"

I don't know....... but I know.....😂can generate lots of youtube traffic from both sides

I definitely think Sig needs to have a trigger that provides a safety I’ve actually always thought that about Sig Pistols.

Sigs plastic guns are trash. Had 2 p320s and a 365. Never again. Both my 320s triggers started having issues between 7-9000 rounds. Started turning really mushy. My 365 broke the stryker. I’ve shot the piss out of Glocks CZ and Hk with nowhere near the issues my sigs had. Now sig does make a hell of a metal gun. The 229 I have is like a Cadillac of pistols.

@BenStoeger187 The Yankee Marshal issued a challenge to discuss the P320

Agree

IIRC, the ceo of sig is a member of the tiny hat club.

Team Glock uses modified Glocks. When Glocks got adopted people were having several issues frames cracking and several ND because of its unsafe design. I guess Glocks are also trash using Ben Stoegers logic

Oooooooh I LOVE equipment opinion videos and the subsequent butthurt that follows. I pretty much exclusively run Glock but people are welcome to trash them all they like. I care not for the opinions of people I don't know. If a guy shooting 40k+ rounds a year says they are garbage, then my ears perk up some. I like Glock pistols, I shoot them well, they've been proven to be reliable if you don't fuck with them. That being said, I hate Glock as a company. I mean I absolutely hate Glock as a company. I'm too invested to stop using them now though.

I’ve seen an X5 blow out with someone’s hand loads . Lots of brands of guns have exploded from overcharged reloads or squibs from underpowered loads . Crappy discount bulk reloads can cause problems too . If Sig’s are actually having issues with quality factory ammo that’s concerning but not something that I’ve ever heard of .

Its funny how glock had this exact same problem when LE switched. Glock Leg 😂 What gen of Glocks was blowing up at a crazy rate in 40s&w? Which if i remember correctly, could actually be recreated. "I dont know, but muh feelings!" You post about these things like a subject expert, but you cant be bothered to understand how the gun works? Love your videos and Instagram posts. You're a refreshing change from how tactical everyone has got.

One comment you made stuck out . Would love more context on the comment about not being comfortable firing a M18. I think it is important because too many people are saying “oh the M17/M18 have a manual safety, they are GTG”.

Couldn't have said it better

The end user shouldn't be required to reverse engineer shit and tell the manufacturer how to fix it

Interesting

I would agree that they are firing out of battery with stock slides I have seen way too much of that for me to be able to blame the ammo at this point as well.. In regards to going off uncommanded, I don’t think it’s rational to reason that the gun is cooking off a round without the trigger being pulled which would absolutely require the gun to have a mechanical issue for this to happen this much has to be true. So the question becomes, how is it possible for all these guns to be going off on their own yet when they take that exact gun recreate or even point to what is wrong with the gun they have magically fixed themselves. On top of the actual guns that have “gone off on their own” never doing it again in a controlled setting, you have countless people out there looking to be the one to crack the code and be able to point to a definitive problem yet nobody has been able to do so for SIX YEARS! That is a hell of a long time for be looking for a problem and come up empty handed if you ask me.. So at what point will people be willing to admit the guns have withstood the test of time? 10 years? 15? 20? For me that time has already come and gone but I feel like for some people it could go on like this forever and they will still never believe they aren’t going off on their own and IMO that is a joke.. So what would you say, how long is a long enough time of nobody being able to point to a specific issue where you have to give the gun the benefit of the doubt??

Ask anyone in the Army... those 320s are bigger pieces of trash than the Berettas were.

Details?

I may not always agree with Ben's or XA's delivery, but both of them have pushed discussion that needs to be had. To any detractors, show me the lie? Seems that the only influencers that are speaking positively about Sig products at this point are sponsored by Sig and all of these points seem valid.

Why should I apologize for being a sig hater? Has sig apologized for MAKING me a sig hater? The glock example you gave is excellent and the recent issue with the PDP was addressed directly by Walther. Curious isn't it?

Bet you could blow one up if you fired it fast enough