Whenever someone talks about ECT in respect to the barbaric way its often portrayed, i always go to a patient i had who was suffering with depression so much that an airflow mattress was required. To see her improve with ECT and how she had me in stitches with her sense of humour. It doesnt always change their mind on what theyve learned but it does pit a diferent perspective on it

Thank you for covering ECT so thoroughly. I had a friend whose life was saved by it. She'd tried everything - years of therapy, every medication, every test for other physical disorders - and they couldn't get it under control. She had a great support system and a family she knew she should live for. Despite all that, on top of her occasional psychotic episodes, all she ever wanted to do was die. They did a genetic test, and it turns out either she couldn't produce dopamine correctly or her brain couldn't use it correctly. I can't quite remember. But within two treatments, she stopped wanting to die every day. After eight, it was like she came back to life. She was able to have that feeling of connection that's so often missing for those of us with depression. I don't know how she's doing these days, but at that point, it worked. She did have some short-term memory problems, and her hubby had to help her in that regard. But I tell her anonymous story to people, to dispel the myths that it's still this barbaric practice from the 60's. This movie is most people's only exposure to ECT, so of course they think it's a horrific punishment. It's not. It works.

"Devoid of personality." I don't know how we ever thought that deleting the person out of a living body was good for the person so long as the body survived and was quiet.

I remember meeting one particular woman shortly before she started a course of ECT. When I met her again a few weeks later, i immediately felt at the time it was like seeing her in colour after previously seeing her in black and white. ECT, when it is really necessary and appropriately used, can be pretty miraculous.

I had a family member (I’m use non identifying aspects to protect them) in the last few decades under went etc. They were very depressed and constantly had thoughts of ending their life. They had over 50 treatments, and for years had memories issues and head aches. Now however the unbelievable when this started has occurred they are working again and seem to be happy in their life.

I voluntarily admitted myself to the local psychiatric ward for suicidal ideologies (about 12 years ago). I was only there about 2-3 days, but I didn't want to leave. They took such good care, and created such a positive environment. I didn't have to worry about them judging me. It was a safe place to freely talk about what was wrong without the stigmas that are in generalized society, that are ingrained in even the most well intentioned friends and family. They set me up with the tools I needed to manage in the real world, but life was so simple those few days.

I underwent 25 treatments of ECT. It would only work for me for a few weeks, so it was not considered successful. It wasn't painful or scary. You come in and they put you under and you wake up thinking it hasn't even happened. It has effected my memory but the doctors said my memory problems were atypical. I don't regret it.

I have friend who had several rounds of ECT a couple of years ago, because she'd suffered from severe anxiety and debilitating suicidal depression for years and had tried literally everything else - every medication and type of therapy. I remember being shocked when she told me, but allthough she doesn't remember certain stretches of her life very well anymore, she's quite firm that ECT saved her life.

I know a fair bit about ECT because I have had 3 sets of 8-12 treatments myself through the years. The last time was 7 years ago. I suffer from treatment resistant depression. It sucks. I am managing these days with therapy. One day I may need ECT again and even in my lifetime I can say the method of this treatment has improved. Back in the day we used to all be lined up on stretchers and the machine would move down the row and unless you were first you would have to listen to each person get their treatment just before you got yours. It was awful. Now they move each stretcher into the treatment room for the period of treatment and then back to recovery. Much better. I can't imagine how they managed with no anesthesia.

Would love to see you react to American Horror Story: Asylum. I think that show portrays a lot of the mistreat patients endured in the past and would love to hear your viewpoint of the show’s depiction of mental illness. (Some things are very dramatized for the show)

Oh Elliott, I feel like you need a hug after this! What a brilliant film, really interesting on a lot of levels and I am enjoying your take on it. At least we are in a more enlightened age, but I bet there is still plenty we can learn from this. Meanwhile, a virtual hug for escorting us through this difficult watch 🥰🥰

I used to spend a lot of time at a drop in center for people who were struggling with their mental health to socialize and participate in free group therapy. There were also group activities such as arts and crafts and meditation, karaoke, bingo, AA, NA, etc, etc.. All of it was free. Each person was allowed up to 2 cups of coffee per day. I met two women there who were receiving electo shock therapy regularly and I would not ever want to have it done. I don't know what medical, mental health issues or medications they were on, but both of them had full body tremors every time I saw them. They had an appearance of being sedated and had trouble focusing or concentrating. I am not familiar with the conditions that they were receiving that treatment for, but it is possible that the side effects of electro shock therapy might have been preferable to the issue that was being treated. When they talked about it, for them it was just another mental health treatment. They didn't appear to be scared or anxious about it and it was done with their consent. I hope that whoever reads this comment is open to a discussion with their psychiatrist if they feel that it might be the best option. Each person's mental health and experience are individual treatments should be voluntary and the individual choices should be made between the patient and their doctor.

There's a book by Jack El-Hai entitled The Lobotomist: A Maverick Medical Genius and His Tragic Quest to Rid the World of Mental Illness. It tells the story of Walter Freeman, MD, and how he popularized the prefrontal lobotomy in the US. The procedure's typical recipient? Married women whose husbands thought they were thinking too much rather than fetching their menfolks their sammiches. Back then, the mostly male physicians listened more to husbands than to wives anyway even about the women's own health problems. Lobotomies turned these unfortunate women into putty in their husbands' hands.

when I was in hospital there were some people getting ECT, completely voluntary because they weren't getting better with all the meds and their life was unlivable as it was

The book is amazing, being almost 100% from Chief's psychotic view. I loved the bit about his father, how every drink (alcoholic) he drained the booze but the bottle drained him. Strong images

Thank you for rounding up your views on this movie. Thanks for all the information. And as a mental health patient myself, I cannot watch it without shivers running down my spine while being thankful that mental health treatment has changed and improved so much since then. Still the occasional dismissive, condescending, insensitive or whatever remarks or beahviours of the stuff will always be possible. They are only human after all too, have a hard job I guess, but it does not leave you less intimidated or belittled. As long as it does not go to far... (long story, but a huge male nurse once grabbed my 17 year old highly underweighted self by my wrists, quite strongly with pressure, pulled me towards him, shook my wrists and yelled at me that "I damn well knew I had no business in the kittchen". Fact is, apparently there was a policy that eating disorder patients were not allowed in the kittchen or helping with any shores realted to food. And no, I did not know about any such thing, because I had already been in the ward for about a week, naturally helping in setting and clearing the table for every meal (like at home where I did most of the house chores anyway) and not once had any member of the staff told me not to do so. But the first day that nurse came back from holiday, he scared me big time approaching from behind and treating me like that. I was so startled and terrified... also there were no witnesses, whichg only made it more scary. Same guy acted mean especially towards me and a firend of mine (we were the two only anorexics in the ward at that point), conveniently when there were no witnesses. I learned to fear and tried to avoid him whenever possible, especially being alone with him. That was a long time ago but it obviously still bothers me. It's only much later that I gained enough confidence to speak it out, and to say that it was just WRONG. Just I can real very well on the experience to feel being at the mercy of a very intimidating, and somehow (especially since I was much younger, anxious, fragile and submissive by nature) frightening staff member. The way he grabbed me and yelled, the expression in his eyes... to make it even worse it reminded me of the bad moments my father could have. It still gives me the shivers right now just thinking back.) And sorry again for yet another of my long digressions. I just got painfully reminded of that incident from the given subject of your great video. Thank you very much for bringin out such good content. I love listening to you learning not only your valuable opinion but also plain facts on the topic.

Thank you for the squeamish warning! Especially since I was eating lunch while watching this video :) I also appreciate how you explained the difference in ECT and monitoring the heart/brain activity then versus now.

Before I got my nursing license, I both had practicals on psych wards and worked part time as a subnurse on psych wards. I've seen ECT performed, and have seen the improvements to patients it was performed on. My own mother, who by the way is a freaking surgeon, had trouble believing me that ECT was still something that was used and, moreover, was a methodology that actually worked. worked. That's how pervasive the perception of it as a barbaric, torturous pseudo-treatment is, that even people in the medical field are misinformed.

I fucking hate that I had ECT. I lost about two years of memory preceding it, and can't remember anything that happened at least 6 months after it. I feel like it was forced on to me in hospital when I wasn't really in a position to make an informed decision to consent. I had 18 sessions. I feel like it must be more common in the US.

Have you ever seen the documentary called Child Of Rage? It’s about a little girl named Beth who has Reactive Attachment Disorder. Would love for you to react to it. I love true crime, psych documentaries and the like and secretly would love to be a forensic psychiatrist. Not possible, but that’s ok. I live vicariously through your channel 😂😂😂

Maybe its just the difference between the US and Britain, but psych hospitals over here are a nightmare. I was held in seclusion for days and they kept making up reasons to not let me out, and to put me back in 4 point restraints. I found out later a nurse told my mom they would let me put when I admitted what I did wrong. I have dissociative episodes where I become unresponsive. Physical sensation flashbacks and was experiencing dystonia from the haldol they were giving me. But apparently they thought I was just trying to fuck with their day. Took over a week for them to realize I was having dystonia, and wasn't pretending to be in pain. It took my face twisting in a way I couldn't voluntarily do. The fear of hospitals then makes the dissociative disorder and paralyzing panic attacks even worse. Then when you freeze up from terror at admin, they just have 6 security gaurds hold you down while you are stripped and forcibly straight cathed. Luckily I have a wonderful therapist now that helping me find some trust in mental health providers. But I'd rather be in a body bad then a mental hospital in the US

9:41 “In the vicinity of an explosion.” He was doing something called “gang blasting.” Basically, people would drill a hole in the ground, fill it with explosives, pack it down with a large *spike*, and set it off. Gage was the one who would pack down the explosives with the spike. On one fateful day, he decided to position his head over the spike to look down at the explosives. For some reason, the explosives detonated and launched the spike through his still (blunt end first). He was right on top of it, and he survived. Miracle

Another excellent and informative video! When I first saw this film, I didn't know what that scar was meant to represent. When it was explained to me soon after, the idea of lobotomy semi-haunted me for a few days... I couldn't digest the idea that this was a real practice that was done on people (not to mention that in the film it was done on a healthy person). So glad it's not done anymore. So awful. A note on ECT - I took someone a couple of times to their ECT treatments, which is when I first learned that it's still used today. I had to rethink and change my preconceptions of ECT then. Thanks for giving your perspective on that topic as well.

I would love to see you react to Sucker Punch. Dunno if you have seen it so I am going to be vague about what the movie plot is. Basically the main character accidentally kills her sister with a gun where the bullet ricocheted and is put in an asylum by her legal guardian. Then... stuff happens. It would be really interesting to see you interpret the "stuff" vs the asylum. I don't want to give anything away so I don't want to explain what I mean by that. I think you would enjoy analyzing it after you have seen it though!

I remember in the 80’s knowing a father and daughter who were treated for depression with EST and they were timid, nervy and would cry all the time. I have never understood why it was used. It always seemed to me as a tool for controlling people and making them more willing to do as they are told. I am not an expert, so it’s only my opinion. I myself have severe clinical depression. I know I can have times when I feel better. But where does my choice stop because someone else thinks it’s my illness controlling me? If I chose to stop eating and drinking to end a life I saw no future in, why is my decision not valued because of my illness? If a physical illness caused pain to the point where life was agony doctors seem more willing to understand a patient’s choice to give up. This is a genuine question, I am not advocating suicide etc. Most suicidal people only act in the moment of crisis where if you can get through that point they would not feel that despair and desperation. But if you can calmly day after day express yourself sanely why is the choice taken from you?

Only yesterday I was reading about Rosemary Kennedy, sister of President JFK. Her father, afraid that her "erratic behaviour" might harm his sons' political careers, ordered a lobotomy for her. The account of the operation - let alone its aftermath - reads like something straight out of a horror movie.

Would you please make a longer video talking about ECT? The history, the ideas behind it, how it’s used today, etc? It’s very interesting

I had a friend who had a lobotomy as a child in the 80s… or at least allegedly, I can’t be certain her story was actually true, but I’m inclined to trust her. What she said was she was part of a small cohort of children with supposedly ‘unmanageable’ personality disorders and was part of a study being done by a doctor who was attempting one last attempt to salvage the procedure, with the claim that it was an effective treatment if used during childhood when the brain still had lots of neuroplasticity. She says it was done through the nostril, and without anaesthesia (since your brain doesn’t actually feel pain). She was a mostly normal and functional person, perhaps thanks to the aforementioned childhood neuroplasticity, but did have a lot of traits that could maybe be neurological. Again, the whole story *might* have been nonsense, I haven’t had occasion or means to really look into it, but if it wasn’t, the idea that people were still trying to salvage this “treatment” all the way into the 80s is pretty terrifying.

Also my mother's sister had a forced lobotomy in the later sixty's thanks to her parents being aholes about her what we would call bi or sapiosexual and non gender conforming dress my mom was ten years older and raised by her grandparents so she wasn't there to speak out

When I was in a ward for attempting su****de I saw everyone had different colored wristbands . It was to tell high risk, low risk, ED, and 24 hour watch. I was lucky to be in a ward with a mix of high and low risk so I had chances to do activities in the main room . So, I was able to go to group therapy and there was a woman who was going through EST . I only saw her for 2 group sessions then never again . She had to be taken out from our 2nd group visit due to the side effects of EST . I can't lie -- I was scared . The group was told more about EST during the session so I had calmed down from the experience. I can't forget how she looked though . She just looked so.. tired . I met other people who will stay in my mind forever and she is one. Now , I went to a behavioral hospital that was not the best . I wanted to mention the fence around the facility. Ours actually had barbed wire . That shit was terrifying haha .

my mom and my grandma both got ect and it saved their lives, thank you for explaining this in a way that isnt offensive

I love what you do! Please talk about the history of the use of ECT to de-gayify folks.

I'm currently in the process of getting approved for ECT. Obviously it's a very serious decision so they're going to have an ethical committee to discuss my case. I get it but the extra wait time is hard when you're very desperate. I've seen some people do so well on ECT it's ridiculous. One lady I know only since after she's had ECT, calls it a miracle. It's quite sad it has such a bad reputation.

I was in a sheltered workshop in Reno, Nevada in the early '90's, where one of my workmates, who had both cerebral palsy and epilepsy, told a supervisor and I about his experiences undergoing ECT during or around the period depicted in the film via American Sign Language. Cannot remember what he told us, but I cannot imagine it was a pleasant procedure to undergo back then.

Thank you for explaining the history of mental health. The electric shock in the fifties and sixties looks barbaric and torturous. My new two people with schizoaffective disorder who had it done under general anesthesia so it wasn't painful. Mental health was so punishing back then. Seems like they punished you for having a mental illness and put you in jail. Asylums where Lake high security prisons.

Watch Carrie Fischer. Yes it takes out bad memories but usually takes memories you don’t want to lose.

Severe endogenous depression is a serious mood disorder, thankfully ECTs use enabled a very close relative to recover twice and was a life saver. A mood disorder drop of this kind is tragic to see and witness, the anhedonia is so intense, profound and resistent to all other medications . Fine explanation....As for "endogenous" - in that persons case, there were never any obvious psycho-social triggers, - being very familair with psychodynamic and CBT theory. Unresolved childhood experiences of loss maybe, but even with therapy from clinical psychology, the depression returned 3-4 years later.

I’m on my second round of ECT right now. I’m completely unconscious and get plenty of good drugs lol. But I can’t tell my dad because he’s so anti psychiatry 😮 hopefully he never watches this video. Edit: yes, my memory is pretty bad especially because I’m getting bilateral ECT. But it’s worth it. I actually don’t have psychotic symptoms, but they recommend ECT for treatment resistant severe MDD.

Question: how come the nurse is able to touch him as he’s being shocked? Doesn’t it work like a defibrillator so she would get shocked too? 🤔 thank you for sharing your thoughts on this and all the other videos, you have such a calm, clear way of explaining things and I find them really informative 😊 love you bye x

It's not as rare as you suggest, doctor, at least not in the U.S. It has helped many people.

Amazing book.

My understanding is ECT is also used less now because of Ketamine treament. I'm wondering if overtime it will be used even less as psiocybin treatments.

Have you ever seen a movie called "Frances" about Frances Farmer starring Jessica Lang? You might want to review that.

i suppose ect is a bit like cardioversion to put things back in normal rythm

I suffer from schizoaffetive disorder,ect and chlorpromazine saved my life. It was done in a supportive and compassionate setting,i'm proud of myself for accepting this treatment,although i faced backlash from my own Brother,who watched this film. Moron that he is.

Dr. Elliot, have you read the book? It is written from the POV of the Chief. It's an excellent read.

Last time I was hospitalized I literally begged for ECT, denied. I get that this movie is a masterpiece and that it shone a light on some nasty practices but I think it's caused more hurt than good

I suppose I should state that the seizures I had were a reaction to the drug and they were the kind where you body just freezes or fall like you can't even open your eyes or change your breathing it's like you're trap mind screaming and and your trapped random ly and from min to hours but those stopped after the drug cleared I was lucky

I don’t think it’s fair to say that the ECT scene and other therapy scenes in the movie give a bad rep for asylums/wards because this movie was made in 1975…a time where asylums ran similarly. For people that may think this translates to how things are done today need to do research and understand that psychology, and good, ethical treatment are still VERY NEW. It is important to know and understand how far we have come in the world of psychology and medicine to understand and appreciate where we are today and how much further we have to go.

I was sad we didn't finish watching the movie together on the last episode. Now we finished the movie and I am sad.

Hi Great movie 💖 Was wondering if you react to shutter Island And if you already did could you link it down below please 🙏

When I worked for a decade in mental health until 2016 in Canada, they were still doing ECT. It didn't happen very often, but for people with treatment resistant psychiatric illnesses, it was used. Even if it doesn't turn you into a vegetable, I've seen people who have been less cognitively aware after having treatment. Certainly if someone is actually violent and there's no other way, I don't necessarily have a problem with it in extreme circumstances. But a lobotomy? That's a bit extreme.

Homeland end of series one showed the main character getting electro thearpy (and being put under and it working) as she did have severe bi polaar dillsion but her paranoia was right!

So are you saying that ECT given in the 1950’s did no damage or harm? Someone given 70 ECT treatments over 6 months during the 1950’s was safe.

I did pause but only to say that as a born severely autistic person and have other mental as well as brain irregular as a child I could mirror or disengage when talking to humans out side of a few I am a nerd 236 IQ test at 7grade can't spell cause I grew up learning and speaking 5 different languages but in my teens

I think professor green has ect

You're using a movie as your example of ECT?

Hello Dr. Elliot! I have discovered your channel a few years back..and have enjoyed your perspective on shows like Always Sunny, BoJack, and most recently Shirking and Ted Lasso.. But, I do have an issue on One flew over the Cookoo Nest! Your highlights of what you spoke about, really didn't catch what this movie was about..and you really dismissed some of the good parts, of showing that people with mental illness, that can enjoy life, given someone to break them out of the grips.of a Nurse Ratchet..who was , abusing these poor souls, for what?? Can you at least explain her point or view??

Wow more fantastic information in a fantastic video, would you need to consent to a labotimiy, as it just looks like you've killed them even though they are alive, also there must of been therapists an doctors who saw what happened to people an protested surly.

fire in the hole

Dr. Elliot, I like your channel, but why won't you show the ACTUAL ending of "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest"? I'm very disappointed. I realize that, as a doctor, you might see the ending as controversial, but your viewers understand that this is a fictional story. Give us more credit than that. I personally would like to hear your opinion of the movie, including it's ending. An ending which has a huge emotional impact. Please consider doing a separate video on this.

Wondering what your thoughts are on ketamine treatment for depression & PTSD… and if you think the IV or nasal spray is more beneficial than the other? It has become popular in the US but, is expensive most insurance will not cover the IV, but will cover the nasal spray. Lastly, I would love to hear your thoughts on the documentary Thin it’s a documentary by Lauren Greenfield for HBO.. It’s on HBO plus & I think Amazon Prime you can also view it on KZfaq. It’s filmed at the Renfrew Center for Eating Disorders. I was in pt. there while they filmed it. I was actually in pt there 4 times which is expensive as US insurance barely covers mental health even though you pay almost $1,000 a month for 2 people. I did not stay in recovery to long after each stay. I made it six months one time. Watching this kind of upset me the way they treat the patients who already have issues with control. And the way staff treated different pts. they rejected those who really needed help. It shows the staff talking about the pts. in a not so nice way. It felt very unsupported at times. Would love to see what you think. Several pts. I was in Renfrew with have passed away and/or were unable to stay in recovery. Eating disorders are so difficult. I really enjoy watching your videos & I’ve learned so much..