Ultimate Arrow Tinkering: No Stone Unturned..

Рет қаралды 102,042

2 жыл бұрын

Ultimate Arrow Tinkering: No Stone Unturned.. Arrow building and tinkering.. We go through it all in this video. This is our Ultimate Arrow Tinkering video. We wanted to really geek out on all things arrows and hope to clear up some of the fog when it comes to shooting and building high quality arrows. Elk Shape Dan and MFJJ really dig in and go through some arrow details. #ElkShape #mfjj #arrowtinks
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Пікірлер: 240

@rocknthamix 2 жыл бұрын

I love these type of vids. The fellowship and knowledge bombs are always on point. Keep it going guys 🙏🏼💪🏼

@jamiesaxe7165 2 жыл бұрын

Awesome seeing you guys be yourselves and have a laugh. Great stuff as always 🤘

@JS-ji5bl 2 жыл бұрын

You guys have have best archery related information of any channel I've seen on KZfaq..

@JFeo3 4 ай бұрын

This answered all questions I had about rip tko’s and spine alignment marker and where to face it. Jj and Dan your videos are so helpful and informative. Thanks!

@nicolasmora5395 2 жыл бұрын

These videos are what set you guys apart from the rest. It’s not just the knowledge from MFJJ, it’s the questions that are asked along the way.

@GhillieFrog 2 жыл бұрын

Great video boys!! I really enjoy building my own arrows and this video is full of great pro tips. Thanks again for taking the time to make this and share it for free!!

@ElkShape 2 жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it

@steven_farmer89 2 жыл бұрын

Been looking forward to this video since I got the email alert. Great video, I am building hunting and TAC arrows now and this is awesome.

@ElkShape 2 жыл бұрын

thanks Steven!

@midwestsportsmanlife Жыл бұрын

I love how the guys heckle Josh relentlessly. He just laughs them off like dude I’ve done this already lol

@jkeithhowe 2 жыл бұрын

One of my favorite vids you have done. Keep up the amazing content gentlemen!

@ElkShape 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks! Will do!

@wyattberg8428 2 жыл бұрын

The week I’m starting my arrow buy and build. Timing is impeccable.

@desertclimber78 Жыл бұрын

Awesome info! Thanks for putting this together.

@matthewsimpson9568 2 жыл бұрын

Anybody building their own arrows should save this video so many golden nuggets also shows the integrity of victory arrows

@vancejohnson1778 2 жыл бұрын

Hell ya guys, sweet video dig all the info and the build, don't mind the longer videos at all 👌

@jeremycavaretta1035 2 жыл бұрын

Another great video guys! You always have us learning 👍🏻

@ElkShape 2 жыл бұрын

Great to hear!

@jimmarkovitz2206 2 жыл бұрын

Good stuff as always! Love this sort of video.

@ElkShape 2 жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it!

@oh2566 Жыл бұрын

Loving all the videos!

@juanrodriguez-mu7ko 2 ай бұрын

Awesome separation is in the preparation!!!

@fishingwithphil2582 2 жыл бұрын

Awesome awesome video! I do not build my own arrows but I will now! Thanks for putting out the best archery videos on KZfaq!

@ElkShape 2 жыл бұрын

Wow, thanks!

@loyalsmithson1544 2 жыл бұрын

This was a GREAT video, applicable information and knowledge!

@ElkShape 2 жыл бұрын

thank you G!

@hollywood3882 9 ай бұрын

Gosh I love this video!!!! It’s literally my 5th time watching it in 24 hours. I’m so HOOKED, I killed my first ever Archery mule deer with a compound bow and this. Omg this video. I’m currently ordering stuff to build my arrows for next season. Thank you guys so much!!

@brettwelch8368 2 жыл бұрын

this is why I started watching your guy's channel. I am always tinkering with my setup and never happy lol. because of the info and tips I've gotten from the channel, last year I was having a hard time grouping at 20 yards, now I practice at 70! keep up the awesome work!!!

@ElkShape 2 жыл бұрын

Glad to hear it dude !

@marklaw6949 2 жыл бұрын

You guys are clearly at the top of your game….. and ya, you gotta watch these videos at least twice to get all the finer points. Thanks

@ElkShape 2 жыл бұрын

we try hard!

@brpnw4r94 2 жыл бұрын

I've come to the point on my life where arrows are like bullets. Match them to your specific "platform". One thing I'm going to take away from this is cutting from the nock end. I shoot Victory VAP TKO Elites (hunting) and Victory Elites (target/3d) Silver sharpies are your friend. Great content, brothers. Edit. I to shoot left helical as arrows clock L out of both my rigs.

@ElkShape 2 жыл бұрын

ABT!

@punishthewicked5845 2 жыл бұрын

It’s easy shoo the same arrows always

@nycredneck 2 жыл бұрын

I too started a left helical fletch several years ago after realizing the arrows were rotating left off the string with no fletching.

@longrangeredneck1335 16 күн бұрын

@@nycredneck did you notice a difference in accuracy ?

@jeffreyfred4817 2 жыл бұрын

I don’t think I’ve ever heard this many bleeps in a elk shape video… I bleeping love it !! awesome video guy's solid info 👍, I love me some victory’s

@ElkShape 2 жыл бұрын

BLEEP!

@matthewmansfield3155 2 жыл бұрын

and then the completely uncensored F-Bomb at 20:33

@Phuskooz 6 ай бұрын

I appreciate the one F-bomb that wasn’t bleeped at 20:32 More of those, please!

@southdakotasaved126 2 жыл бұрын

Awesome video as always! I have the same arrow squaring tool, great tip on using the silver sharpie when squaring, I should have thought of that...LOL :), always learn something new from your vids! I just ordered an Elite Bow and Hamskea rest from you guys @ Podium Archery! Keep the great content coming, much appreciated!

@ElkShape 2 жыл бұрын

Glad it was helpful!

@jddkayla712 2 жыл бұрын

Great video! I do agree 100% with making sure you don't spin an arrow on its logo. Respectively, I somewhat disagree with not cutting from both sides. I have a long draw length so I don't have a lot of room to play with when building/cutting my shafts. I am currently building a heavy-ish micro diameter Element Storm arrow for hunting that will come out to 520 gr TAW with right at 17% foc. After spinning them, I found 3 out of the 12 had more wobble on the nock end but also some on the front. I split the difference and cut both ends. Maybe it was luck but I ended up with a straight arrow. I decided to be super OCD with this build just to see if I can find any variation to the pros and cons of going the extra mile when building arrows. I weighed every fletch, nock, outsert, shaft, and broadhead. I then separated each peice and placed in their own pile by weight. Like I said, super OCD build. I want to know if I can do everything in my power to build the most consistent match grade hunting arrow as well as the best tune possible for my bow. It has taken a lot of time but it's also very relaxing. Just my opinion, upgrade your spinner to a Sirius. It's adjustable, better built, and more accurate imo. I don't think you will regret it. One question, do you nock arrows stiff side up or stiff side facing the brace?

@bryantrimborn9489 Жыл бұрын

MFJJ your head should be the size of a 5 gal bucket. Most of the knowledge your dropping I’ve never heard of. Can’t wait to go thru a total bow and arrow build at SVA!

@markkahler1130 2 жыл бұрын

Dan's Hoodie is bad ass! I Love it.

@myronriggs9613 2 жыл бұрын

Great video! Thanks ! Now I’m going to have to rewatch it to pick up what I missed the first time.👍

@ElkShape 2 жыл бұрын

Glad it was helpful!

@mattsoutdoors7757 2 жыл бұрын

Great video. I use the victory RIP 300. I do all my arrows also and I have done all those steps. I have too say it is a all day prosses to do all that. I only do victory because of the spine aline. So much quicker to build the victory.

@georgemyers6518 Жыл бұрын

Great video. I’m a big fan of Victory arrows.

@brock77kb83 3 ай бұрын

Great videos as always…this Answered one of my questions. Would have been a great comparison to see how the field point vs broad head shot at further distances …

@hellcatoutdoors 2 жыл бұрын

Out of 5 years of searching for the ultimate arrow build guide go figure my favourite crew of MFJJ and Elkshape have ended my search

@ElkShape 2 жыл бұрын

thanks G!

@mab0852 2 жыл бұрын

When I spin my shafts, I set a piece of paper with a parallel line on each end of the arrow so I can tell exactly where the bend is. I cut out the bend best I can whether that means all from 1 end, equal from both ends, or 75/25 if both ends move but one is worse than the other. I also square both ends regardless of cut and I square the insert after it is installed. I also clock my inserts so my broadhead and spine/tune are in line and then fletch in alignment with that as well. I weight sort everything beforehand and match components to zero out the final build, consistently .5 grain or less. Several of my buddies run the same build as me and we can swap arrows or bows with consistent groupings and single digit ES/SD on the LabRadar. Do all you want with spine, but if they aren't consistently running the same speed (same speed=same weight=same KE) your groups will open up and show it. What drives me nuts is when they start swapping heads and assume when the package says 125 it's really 125...I've weight sorted, shot, and chronoed enough to know that's BS.

@Miketheman009 2 жыл бұрын

Great tip imo

@joshuaryan980 2 жыл бұрын

“IT TURNED TO THE LEFT, SUM BUTCH!!!!”😂😂😂😂 damn it I love these guys!!!!

@williamsonkm20 2 жыл бұрын

Josh put the Goldtip inserts on my arrows while I was there and I love them! No turning back now.

@ElkShape 2 жыл бұрын

You betcha

@KS-ko9on 2 жыл бұрын

Depending on how long ago you got that spine tester. There is a good shot I machined that, assembled it and shipped it. Kinda cool to see it in a video.

@frankr608 2 жыл бұрын

Switched to Black Engle carnivore. Affordable, and in stock . And are doing the Aron Syder methods minus the spine alignment tool. Doing the nock tuning for the first time .

@justintorres08 2 жыл бұрын

I found with my tko”s with bare shaft shooting and nock tuning through paper I found that even though “spine aligned” that didn’t mean that arrow reacted the same out of the bow. So that test was all personal but I found some aarow my cock vane was on the marked spine and some weren’t. Takeaway from this is the more you dive deep into arrows the better performance and confidence you’ll have down the road.

@ObamaOsucksOass 2 жыл бұрын

Good stuff fellas!

@ElkShape 2 жыл бұрын

Appreciate it!

@alexwright6594 2 жыл бұрын

Tim, another great video 👍

@ElkShape 2 жыл бұрын

Dan deserves a lot of the credit for this one! Appreciate it G

@SWINGERINTO 2 жыл бұрын

This was very useful!!!

@conradsearle9774 Жыл бұрын

I just built some doing most of what you guys just did and now I'm thinking of doing some inserts in the last 6 I have left and maybe might be getting some rip tkos soon

@mikewhitehead677 2 жыл бұрын

Love the video. Would love a vid on using the Ram arrow spine tester. I use mine but I know there's so much more that it can be used for. Please

@williamthomson6641 Жыл бұрын

Great information.

@ElkShape Жыл бұрын

Glad it was helpful!

@jumrobe Жыл бұрын

I'm going to have to give the RIP TKO a shot. I've never shot Victory arrows, but this was a good testimonial for the quality of the product.

@connor_bohnts Жыл бұрын

I don’t know about anyone else but i had to watch this a couple of times to abstain all the knowledge in this video.

@XXXston3wallXXX Жыл бұрын

Thank you

@WildTines 2 жыл бұрын

That paper tuning footy is MONEY! gah damn!

@ElkShape 2 жыл бұрын

thanks G!

@papaschuette Жыл бұрын

I learn something new on every one of your videos. I'm gonna invest the money to start building my own arrows. I'm kind of on a limited budget, but don't want below mid grade equipment either. Any recommendations? I definitely appreciate everything you do.

@rodrodriguez9915 2 жыл бұрын

You guys are awesome I like the longer videos great 👍 job

@ElkShape 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks G

@gordonmilligan6747 2 жыл бұрын

Could you do a video explaining straightness vs unity of stiffness and broad heads vs field tips would be amazing. Love how you explain things

@ElkShape 2 жыл бұрын

Great suggestion!

@stick__shooter 2 жыл бұрын

I love the VF TKOs. I cut mine to 27" carbon to carbon and use the Gamers. I haven't seen a reason to use Elites cut down that short.

@talkinturkeywithtony4697 Жыл бұрын

I've searched for Ram Spine Tester videos, this is the best one yet.

@justindoyle6039 2 жыл бұрын

I just finished building out 12 of the TKO elite’s. 11/12 were bullet holes when nock tuning off the spine align mark

@Miketheman009 2 жыл бұрын

I’m inspired, I ordered some tools to build my own arrows

@quantumeraser4833 2 жыл бұрын

Well Done.

@justingarant9367 2 жыл бұрын

super duper tips in this one. I’m starting to get a bit geeked out on arrows and all this FOC discussions. What’s your take on brass inserts? I just had some 5mm brass hit Easton inserts ordered 🍻

@kylehoward5452 2 жыл бұрын

I’ll have to try some gold tip inserts for .204 I’ve always been a fan of putting the hit inserts on my broadheads and hot melting the whole thing in as one piece. Almost like a synder core. Have felt that then that way the broadhead is inside the arrow a bit and might be stronger with a collar.

@ElkShape 2 жыл бұрын

give em a shot, they've been good - tc

@hoffdoesstuff Жыл бұрын

OMG this is going to become a rabbit hole. 😳

@ericsabo88 2 жыл бұрын

I wouldn't mind seeing one last step before fletching, and that is verifying all bare shafts hit in the same group @ 30 yards, if you have a flyer or 2, turn nock incrementally to see if it will group with others. May be a waste of time but this is something I'm going to soon be testing with my current arrow build.

@jeff_8789 2 жыл бұрын

I've shot the rip xv 300s for 3 seasons in the gamers and I've never measured one yet that was over 2.5 thousands so for the money I'm sticking with them and the ethics components been an awesome combo thus far with the qud exodus on the end it comes out at 440 grains at 20.4foc

@jedhuf7548 2 жыл бұрын

I’m rocking almost the same setup! I love the XVs! I’m yet to have a durability issue with the lighter shaft.

@kevinanderson4610 5 ай бұрын

I loved the video. Very informative. How do I find the weak part of the arrow if I’m at home and don’t shoot Victory arrows?

@C.Adams82 Жыл бұрын

I know this is an older video. For hunting we always trying to increase foc and mantain a fairly low arrow weight. The best arrow to have a high foc and low GPI is the victory rip xv extreme velocity. With my measurements and a 300 spine my foc is right at 20%. It's a victory arrow that I dont hear people talk about, the vap and the tko get all the attention but that rip xv is legit

@MikeyWoomer 2 жыл бұрын

Great video watched every second of it.. I need to go back and watch it again because I'm not sure what outsert that was he used I think he said gold tip. I got away from outserts because how easy they bend. Maybe these are different.

@BobBowers1967 2 жыл бұрын

He is using what I like to call a "half-out" insert. Meaning part of it is in the shaft, part is in front of the shaft and the part that is in front of the shaft is the same or very close diameter to the arrow itself. This differs in an "Outsert" that goes completely on the outside of the shaft and nothing is inside the shaft. And yes, these are Gold Tip stainless inserts made for the Traditional series of arrows (or Airstrikes as they have a stainless version available for that shaft as well that might fit the OD of whatever arrow you are trying to put these in). Just as a side note, most of these GT stainless halfouts are around 72-78 grains. And you can add weight to them by using the Victory screw in weights which come in 10, 20, and 50 grains. Very, very tough system when you put all this together. I was building these type of arrows years ago and they are the toughest I've ever used bar none.

@jackbuendgen389 2 жыл бұрын

I have a 26" draw. When I take the time to spin each shaft and cut off the wobbly ends I am blown away how straight my arrows are! Then I weight sort every component, nock tune them, and fletch them myself. Most of the time there's a 1.5 grain difference between the lightest and heaviest arrow.

@ElkShape 2 жыл бұрын

word up!

@adamhalcom1608 2 жыл бұрын

Great videos. Spoke with them on the phone very helpful guys. One question is how y'all index the fletching vs spine alignment marks? Thanks for all the videos can't wait for the next one.

@nwmod39 Жыл бұрын

I'm going to say since they said they were shooting with the spine mark straight up that they fletch the cock vane with the spine align mark.

@sagrieff 2 жыл бұрын

not to mention the added difficulty getting collared arrows out of a bag target.

@bucksbullsandbroadheads6615 2 жыл бұрын

Wow. I didn't understand half of that. They are so smart.

@jackbuendgen389 2 жыл бұрын

Loved watching those BOMBS at the end of the vid! You guys should do that in every video. Post vid bombs

@ElkShape 2 жыл бұрын

many more SENDS coming your way yet - tc

@aaronshorter864 Жыл бұрын

If using the outsert that makes arrow 1” longer, why not cut an extra 1” off? And the longer insert going further into arrow does that also alter stiffness since now the first 2-3” is now solid vs hollow?

@michaiahsoares7854 Жыл бұрын

Love your guys content! You guys should come out here to Molokai, ill take u guys to sling some arrows at some Axis deer🤙🏽

@ElkShape Жыл бұрын

Send an email elkshape@gmail.com

@alsbro1234 Жыл бұрын

I disagree with mfjj about the collar vs half-sert system. The collar does require more carbon but the carbon under the collar is stiffened. Essentially the carbon begins at the rear of the insert, since everything forward of that is stiffened by steel.

@iamtheshaker Жыл бұрын

Wouldn’t that be the same for the half-sert too? Stiffness from the insert would also increase, and would make total equivalent arrow still shorter

@jowhi9296 2 жыл бұрын

When you guys are matching spine to bow weight and length do you generally just round up on spine if intend to run heavy tips? I often see charts for example 28" shaft, 70 bow, above 315 showing 350 but then right in middle of 300. Also when adding weight obviously it will reduce FPS so do you determine spine by expectations on reduced speed? Thanks so much guys

@drewanderson8588 Жыл бұрын

When you’re trying to calculate your FOC, do you measure the length of the arrow carbon to carbon and subtract the length of the insert and nock that goes into it?

@Miketheman009 2 жыл бұрын

another question elk shape says that arrow collars like the iron will ones add length but they go right to the tip of the insert (Easton axis Hit insert) but for example, the gold tip TRAD inserts stick out further. Am I not understanding something, for it seems my arrows with the GT insert would be longer than my arrows, Easton axis 5mm hit insert with iron will collars are now or am I doing something wrong on my current arrows?

@jaydensankey2301 Жыл бұрын

Good content yet again, you guys ever done any long range testing between the sports .006 and elites .001, with and without broadheads, im in Australia, sports are $150 a doz and the elites are $220 this is for the rip tko 250s

@aaronshorter864 2 жыл бұрын

I spin several times over several different areas on the arrow. If one end is worse than other I’ll cut that end. If both are bad I’ll cut both sides.

@lbtn1 2 жыл бұрын

Great video, I do have a question, which GT inserts do you use? The .204 Traditionals or the .204 Kinnetics? They come in different widths. Thanks.

@BobBowers1967 2 жыл бұрын

He's talking about the 204 Trad series halfout since they are stainless. The Kinetic series is aluminum. Gold Tip also has stainless halfouts for their Airstrike lineup so you may find an OD that will work for you there in that series.

@thilou6092 Жыл бұрын

Thank for yours videos ; what is the best arrows for 2D&3D shoot , whit Hoyt RX7 Ultra 60 lbs and 29 " ? tube , spikes ?? Thank you from Belgium

@josephbucci484 Жыл бұрын

Cut from wobbly end. Square both ends. Cut from both if need be. You can get “cheap” arrows to .002 easily. Maybe not 12/12, but certainly 10/12. Worry about straight and square not looks and uniformity of where the fletch is in relation to the logo. Yeah my OCD hates that too lol.

@5jjt Жыл бұрын

It would be interesting to see how the worst measured arrow paper tuned against the best, and how they hit the target differently. Or, did the .014" arrow make its way in and I didn't notice?

@Bluuubbb1 7 ай бұрын

Can there be a problem with broadheads, when you use left helical. I meen can you turn the broadhead from the arrow if the arrow turns left and the broadhead stops turning at impact (because of friction/contact/etc.)

@briansteele1378 Жыл бұрын

So with Victory spine aligned arrows, a good starting point would be with the spine alignment mark facing up?

@04bensims 2 жыл бұрын

In the rifle world, experienced relaxers/shooters know how deviations in powder load affect velocity spreads and can then predict point of impact differences at certain yardages. It’s significantly easier to remove variables shooting a rifle off a bench to measure these deviations. Archery is different. With that in mind, what are the real world point of impact affects of, for example, .001 straightness vs .003? What’s the change in POI at 50yds with a difference of 5 grains? An aside, making observations about spine alignment and stiffness and then using half outs just seems weird to me.

@dbuckner902010 Жыл бұрын

I probably go overboard and I weigh every piece of my components so when I am done with my build they are +/- a few grains apart is that necessary or am I just doing to much work ?

@jddpt3281 2 жыл бұрын

Building same arrows this week. Any recommendations for favorite field points?

@Bowhunterohio 2 жыл бұрын

I’ve been fletching my arrows to the left since Ive started fletching my own arrows. Every bow I’ve owned have always spun left. What I don’t get is how many people fletch to the right and even arrows that come fletched are to the right. Ive yet to see a bow shoot to the right even with custom strings.

@patrickdoan1291 2 жыл бұрын

Do you ever use the GT ballistic collars that go with those inserts? Or is it just unnecessary weight to add to the front?

@Miketheman009 2 жыл бұрын

good question?

@timsizemore6793 2 жыл бұрын

Great video,i have been checking arrows and spine since i have been building arrows.Thats over 50 years,since the carbon arrows build and deaign came out,i have been useing most of your methods sincr th spine checking and they definitely worked. th &

@timsizemore6793 2 жыл бұрын

Sorry i enterd so9?e w

@user-vi1mz7du5x 7 ай бұрын

Put a finger dial indicator on the shaft it will tell you where the high spot is

@thomothompson1344 2 жыл бұрын

Hey. What spine goldtip trad insert would you need to use for a 250spine TKO? For my drawlength and poundage I think I need a 250 spine. 28.5”draw V3 31 75# mods( probably hotter as Mathews are) Any feedback would be awesome! Keep the videos coming.

@bigjoe-pm2ql 2 жыл бұрын

What glue was that y’all was using on the inserts?

@ApexPredatorOutdoors 2 жыл бұрын

Very nice. This is a lot of great info for those of us that dive this deep. Wish all of those tools were more affordable for the everyday bow hunter and archer. Maybe we will see a Podium archer Spine tester one day. As Dan said, "Forget the Patents!"

@ElkShape 2 жыл бұрын

yesssir

@brpnw4r94 2 жыл бұрын

Have your bow hunting buddies chip in, if necessary. It's a win, win for everyone learning to DIY. Cheers

@kylehardin936 Жыл бұрын

For Josh: I'm having trouble with the premise that you are changing arrow stiffness without changing carbon-to-carbon length. I could use the Iron Will insert/outsert system with a short 125 grain field point on one arrow, and on another arrow I could use an insert only with a long 125 grain broadhead. You could end up with arrows of equivalent overall length (tip of point to tip of nock). Are you saying that the arrow with outsert and field point would have a different spine than the arrow with broadhead in this example? Or are you saying that any increase in length (including long broadheads) is somehow changing the spine of the arrow?

@jons7e 2 жыл бұрын

I like the price of Easton Axis Match Grade arrows, but I've experienced them being all over the place

@ComeInBlueOver 10 ай бұрын

How do we know how much weight we want in our arrow? I’m new to this I’ve been shooting for several years but I always just had my local pro shop do everything