Given future tech, retrofits, and the likelihood of tech plateauing, I definitely agree. If anything, some of these ships could see 200 years of service. How fast would the tech really be developing by this point? If anything, PIC makes it look like the Federation's social and technological advances have begun to heavily decay since Picard captained the Enterprise, so the Enterprise E would probably still outclass anything in service during his admiralty and retirement.

My reasoning is that, being the flagship, the Enterprise F went though many tough missions that heavily damaged and over stressed it's frame.

@@christophernemeth421 In STO, I can buy that

@@christophernemeth421 Could the J be written off as being from a reality that Archer and Daniels prevented it?

like..disco writers

The bit we did see, is likely all we're ever going to get. They want the Titan A to be the golden goose of the series in the hopes that a Constitution knock off with the old TNG crew will be enough to sell the show to impress their shareholders and improve profits from the series since it's largely failed to do that to date. It may be pessimistic of me to think this way, but that's exactly how it looks to me.

You won't get that from Kurtsman or Secret Hideout, not if Picard is any indication.

If that happens, odds are that Seven will not only be the new captain of the Enterprise F, she'll poach the majority of the Titan's Bridge crew, her girlfriend Raffi as her XO,Elnor as security and Soji as well for the operations manager position.

just play star trek online.

@@aredub1847 Where do you think they got all the ship designs for Picard from? They're all lifted from STO. Thats why they look so bad.

Starfleet need to stop digging up old hulls from the museum and retro fit them.

Yes.

Indeed, which makes no sense. The Enterprise J was in service in the 26th century or so. That means every single Enterprise after the F, needs to be around for atleast 33 years. Which in itself makes no sense.

@@angelphoenix7784 I don't think the show runners know what they are doing.

It's now impossible for the average person to tell what era a ship is from. Most of them look like clunky, blocky crap and there is little to distinguish one design from Discovery from another in Picard.

Something tells me that was Picard's doing, the man had been Captain of the federation flagship for nearly twenty years, I'm sure he was allowed to hand pick his successor and no one was going to tell him no out of respect, and honestly Worf deserves that spot despite his slightly blemished record

Worf went through a lot of crap after that, so letting him be command of the Flag ship of Starleet probably was a "all is forgiven" gesture to him.

That was the only thing that was comforting

@@TheSilverPhoenix100 what was his blemished record?

@@vnixned2 Worf killed Duras and recived a formal reprimand form Picard, he also botched a mission by trying to save his wife Jadzia Dax instead of protecting his target

Or characters in the show like the Enterprise was 😔

Not only that, the ships don't look well designed at all. The E has clearly a superior design to the F. F is bulky and badly shaped, while we have phaser strips, it is not a good design choice to curve the saucer vertically with phaser strips on it. The ventral side of the saucer suffers from the lack of a flat surface. The main weakpoint is the tunnel, that is where the ship will take massive damage of the shield breaks, where it either breaks apart, or where one hit might hit like it was in the interior of the ship, just because it hits all 4 sides of the tunnel... . Many new designs of Picard also have thin pylons which is a bad weakpoint for crucial infrastructure like plasma conduits or even the main power between the engineering section and the saucer section.

Sadly no

Usually a random belligerent Bird of Prey finds em unprepared.

That does tend to happen when any ship named "Enterprise" is pushed into being the flagship of Starfleet and thrown at every major issue. Eventually enemies and allies both know what to expect when they hear that name.

I don't know, the D saucer did glide rather gracefully, at least until it hit the ground.

Incidentally, the Verity was retconned to NCC-97007, in the trade paperback of Picard: Countdown. Still a very high registry for the period, and higher than the Sutherland's, Stargazer's and Archimedes'.

Recycle old ships, decommission newer ship (so it can be reused in 50 years)

I like Saavik too

Ships are kept in reserve for future need the IOWA class was built in 1945, and served in WW2 and Korea, recommissioned for Vietnam, then in the '80s, and again for the gulf war. So it is a common practice, Starfleet would do the same.

Kind of like using Miranda class ships during Dominion war.

That’s always bother me tbh considering that’s one of the worst designs to me

I dunno. I find it kind of charming that the Miranda and Excelsior are such unkillable designs compared to their peers. So many years go by and the engineers are still going "eh, staple the new tech to a Miranda, she can handle it."

@@Nalehw I kind of agree, I suppose my issue is more the newer classes getting canned so fast. I suppose one can imagine Mirandas as the Honda Civics of the Federation.

@@Nalehw the Miranda is literally like a constitution class but a bigger saucer

I really wish theyd retcon the burn...I hate that story line.

@@robertbeighey9317 It was how the Universe tried to get rid of all the Mirandas. See, it now makes sense. Miranda Post-Burn: "I'm not dead yet!" Starfleet: "Yes you are. Now shut up and let's get you on the cart!"

Well, ONLY if her warp core was active when the Burn event occurred. That's why some ships survived, they were offline when it happened.

@@kgmindustries8121 Oh I know, but it's still my head canon that the Burn was the Universe's attempt at getting rid of Mirandas, once and for all.

well, by registry yes, but she went thought upgrades and at least 2 refits (all canon), in my head canon i order them as follows: launched in 2245, first upgrade in 2260 lasting up to 2265 (the changes made for Where No Man Has Gone Before), first "minor" refit in 2265 (after WNMHGB) lasting until 2270 (the TOS version), first major refit in the early 2270s (the TMP version) which as Captain Deker says "...this is an almost totally new enterprise", second upgrade, mostly internal, in the early 2280s lasting until 2285 (changes that we see in TWOK and TSFS).

@@ROBERTO-in2iq I'm aware of that. But it's good to inform others who don't know.

It has seen such extensive refits, especially internal ones that it could have been a different ship alltogether through them. They just kept the frame intact(even that, just for the most part, not entirelly).

I was just gonna say this. I got the idea she was back at the academy specifically because she was a high potential officer on the fast track for command…didn’t they also reference the program in TNG with Ensign Ro, and specifically say it was an extremely difficult program?

a Few years back I would have disagreed and said this would be just cheap knockoff designs of better ones. Recent developments in Jet fighter design, made me rethink it. F16 Viper F15 Super Eagle f18 / F18/A /Growler F22 looking like a modernised F15 instead of a F117 Japanese using the F23 design for a new fighter. It kind of makes sense to improve on old designs even well after they are done.

An F-22 like ship.

@@114Riggs Case of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"

Patrol vessels are inherently *very* different in role from exploratory vessels or more balanced vessels. Definitely more of an interceptor type. And they would have features that reflect thst. Some that come to mind immediately are: heavier weapons, better shields and hull armor, possibly better sensors, and engines likely modified for higher burst impulse speeds to intercept and engage threats that is provided by unusually large and powerful impulse engines and smaller, less powerful warp engines less capable of high or sustained warp speeds. Think ww2 PT boats versus a normal destroyer of corvette. They had an unusually heavy armament for their size.

@@Stormcrow_1 yeah like that suped up Excelsior, it kind of makes sense. More than that Enterprise-J

It almost seems like a blatant "fuck you" to the fans.

In reality it's ridiculous. 16 years would be total nonsense in reality.

Neither Picard nor any of the Secret Hideout shows are canon.

Its in line with modern military history too. In times of need armies and navies make do with what they have while waiting for new equipment. There's a reason they keep huge stockpiles of outdated tanks, aircraft and ships around even today - they never know when they'll need to be brought back into service and given a few quick updates while possible. Even in a supposedly post scarcity society (that notion is slowly coming apart at the seams as the Federation gets tested again and again) there's still not infinite resources or energy available. If you can rebuild an old ship into something decent and salvage the rare materials from its obsolete systems then you should do that.

If the theory that they might have rebuilt the Enterprise D, specifically to be in a museum end up being true I can't help but wonder if they may end up going the route of canonizing the Galaxy-refit. It's a big what-if though.

Starfleet isn’t looking like a post dominion war starfleet should look like.

​@@DudleyStadler More like Post-Nemesis. Post BORG encounter should of made Fed more militarized and bigger. Nope Picard showed they're not just incompetent, but the structure is lacking with that way like Picard has done it. A post DS9 and Voyager fleet would of been like far different to Picard has done. It feels like the storyline for Discovery and Picard really doesn't have anymore proper writers who know military at this point and isn't taking lessons from what post and aftermath war in real life actually does. Let alone not building off of DS9 and Nemesis.

@@gerogyzurkov2259 yes and using the utopia planetia is gone to justify it like there aren’t 16 other named shipyards in the federation

It should have been the Enterprise-E retiring. End of the episode, we get the F. Nope, we got the ugly as sin Titan renamed. Hand me down mid grade ship.

When did the E get decommissioned in Star Trek Online? That would be the official continuity and not this Alex Kurtzman alternate reality timeline thing.

@@MonsterKidCory, 2409, I think. Adjusting slightly for Picard, 2301 would be okay, I suppose. The final episode of Picard, Season 3, should have seen the LAUNCH of the Enterprise-F, not it’s decommissioning.

JJ/Kurtzman ship designers did a lousy job over the years. When someone brought up Star Trek Online ships to their attention, they took advantage of the devs and their player base. Canonize some of their designs and get their players in as new viewers. What they call fan service, was a slap in the face of the Enterprise E, F and Titan fans.

@@thatHARVguy, with just a little dialog, they could have made 2401 the launch of the E-F.

It’s a refit as it uses rikers titans internal components.

Neo Constitution = Shangri'La + new Nacelles and additional impulse engines. This is very clear when you put them side-by-side and since the first Titan was a Shangri'La class (Luna came after that) it makes sense when the say that they refitted the 'old Titan'. It is also the only logical expanation why it has a 23nd cen style saucer.

That is my thought as well.

@Eoghan Lacey that's stupid. That isn't what a Refit is.

@@eoghanlacey6384 what about external?

The arrival of the Enterprise-F is a pivotal moment in that mission, and it continues to be so through to the end of the Terran Gambit storyline. Additionaly, the Star Trek Adventures RPG, has the Enterprise-F as available in 2411 as a Yorktown class ship, having undergone a major refit following the Battle of Midnight, thanks to the Utopia Planetia sourcebook.

I don’t know why they don’t set more stories in the Kelvin timeline given the opportunity they have for more original storytelling there. Beyond was the best Trek film we had in decades partly for this reason.

@@deathdisclover999 That and the oddy is the new kid on the block. I remember the 'flagship' missions that gave players one. So it is really strange to seeing the ship not only appearing far earlier, but also have it's registry used for the Verity and then see the Enterprise decommissioned on it's first TV appearance after an apparent 16 year lifespan.

Hes not the counselor. Hes special counsel. Hes like an expert not like troi

that makes no sensew what so ever. which considering the writing staff of Secret Hideout not surprising.

@@Revkor It's all so aggressively stupid

I was once reading about a ship class bigger than the Odyssey class iirc it was intended that the commanding officer would always be an admiral, wonder if the G could be of that class

It's ridiculous to get rid of it.

Indeed, STO even brings back or makes new plot threads from things left over from the shows. Such as the Vaadwuar were in one Voyager episode, yet they made them the big bad of the Delta Quadrant arc. Or the Dominion fleet lost in the Bajoran Wormhole when it closed had returned in STO. The game even makes some awesome lore connections like the Fek'hiri and Hurq being a threat to the Klingons because of the Dominion looking for soldiers. STO feels like a huge love letter to Star Trek, it even expands well on Discovery by adding a prologue story setting up Episode 3 and onward. Or Agents of Yesturday explaining the left over mysteries of the Temporal Cold War and other time travel stuff. I recently played through the entire story and have had a blast rewatching episodes to see their connections to STO or just important info I need to understand the story. I think they should have either tried to fit the new material into STO and make it semi canon (At least the events of the game) or just make New Trek a splitting timeline, events play out differently in both timelines, but similar things still happen like the Enterprise-F launching in the 2400s, not so early that it's being decommissioned by this time. It's why for my own headcanon I consider STO official, just it's own timeline, but still effects the Prime Timeline as we know time travel is weird in Star Trek, like the Enterprise-E still goes back to First Contact, yet the Kelvin TImeline existing prevents them in this timeline from going back, but it still happens.

I feel like they sacrificed season 3 of Picard to fan service.

Seems everyone here is talking about a missed opportunity? Fair? STO lives by it's story they have to do a decent job or their subs + cash shop $$$ crash, and for most part they have. Picard S2+3 were filmed back to back and investors had already paid, there won't be a season 4 so the script doesn't need to be so polished to get the viewers invested. I didn't even recognise the characters bickering on the bridge like children trying to psychoanalyse each other without even knowing what the word means. STD has been vaccinated. Strange New Worlds is now the only franchise going forward. How they will reconcile that rubber thing Kirk fought with the re-imagined Gorn idk?

@@DudleyStadler Picard already sucked. At least season 3 was far better than the previous two seasons.

​@@OriginalMergatroid star trek Picard is amazing

heh could be the 3 nacelle Galaxy refit...it would be great counter to how the original Galaxy was disrespected in the bar scene, being describe as the unwanted "Fat" Enterprise

@@amazedsatsuma there is some truth to that. Considering many people saw the galaxy as the cruise ship not a starship

That would suck. Most likely they’ll pander hard to nostalgia and make the new Enterprise the “NEW NEO NEUVAUE BRAND SPANKING NEW” Constitution with different textures and call it a day.

That's interesting. I mean, how many images of the Galaxy class did we see in the first episode? It was everywhere! Are we getting a Neo Galaxy class?

I was thinking the same thing 😊

You're looking at it from the wrong angle. Picard's whole schtick is "How can we shit all over Star Trek and make the fans pay us for it."

@@canisblack actually made a similar comment on another video, tho i kept myself a bit more polite, shall we say :P. still i'll always love the Oddy and every time i see the F i feel like she's screaming like Mark Hamill in TLJ "i hate what you're doing with my character" ('cause yes, at least every hero ship in trek is a character); like she feels like that extremely talented actor that is however handed an awful script.

@@canisblack Y'all are paying for this?

Especially since the -F was designed by a fan for fans. Feels like a slap in the face. "What, you don't like all the 'original' ships we've come up with? Ok, here's some fanservice- whoops, it's gone now; guess you'll have to acknowledge our stuff instead."

They're trying to tie in the comics to STO to live action series. It's not an easy task, so don't be impatient. Matalas said it will all work for STO in the end.

My take on enterprise F is that it isn’t set in STO universe neither in Original timeline of TNG but rather alternate universe called “prime timeline “

I think either the F is getting an unofficial refit into Yorktown which for some reason gets to take far more than it normally should, or that -G is also commisioned as a Ross Class Enterprise and after -F refit is completed, they both retain flagship status, just of different fleets(e.g. 1st fleet Ent-F, 2nd Fleet Phoenix, 3rd Fleet Ent-G etc.) cause quite frankly UFP total ship count by 2400's is already huge to not justify smaller fleets maybe even depending on Quadrant or area stationed or patrolling or exploring to make them more maneauverable tactical, defendable and combat worthy if needed.

The way I see it and think it's supposed to be is, all ships with the same name are considered in the same legacy, in a sense? Only ships that really, truly prove themselves to be unique, through the extenuating circumstances of their particularly outstanding crews, get a real "successor" that will share it's registry. I think part of the reason for this, using the examples you mentioned too, that there can be a LOT of time passed between ships of the same name in a legacy, but if a ship and crew REALLY prove themselves, the successor comes immediately, so giving it the same registry makes sense. I think also part of the intention is that, when possible, the crew from the original ship will largely also transfer over to the new one.

This happens with modern militaries too - a new replacement is developed almost immediately after the previous model is released and takes decades to perfect (if ever). With the problems the Federation was facing with escalating threats its possible they pushed out the Odyssey too quickly before it was ready. Having a brand new ship fail to surpass the previous ship in any meaningful way while being a logistical and technical headache might have caused it to be recalled for further refinement. For example, the Eurofighter Typhoon aircraft. They started work on that in the early 1970's, didn't have a prototype until the 80's, took until the 90's to produce the final design and took another decade to refine and test it to satisfaction before being actually adopted for military use. And that's 'just' a fighter jet!

I feel like it would've been more thematically appropriate for it to be the -E being decommissioned, as this season is supposed to be TNG's sendoff. To bring in the Odyssey class in for fanservice only to drop it in the trashcan feels like a massive copout, especially as it was designed by a fan for fans. I have this sinking feeling that the way the show's art department is coming along, there going to introduce Enterprise-G as a "Galaxy-II" or "Constitution-IV' refit.

I wasn't familiar with the comic, but it seems Matalas, who is a Trek fan had his hands tied with it(launched early was the comic idea) and tried to compromise between it and STO. He also said that it will be worthwhile for STO fans, so I'm expecting it getting a refit, or decomissioned in favor of Ross class which looks like an updated Galaxy(STO design too).

If you think of it, it also provides leeway for the fans to live their own adventures in the F and also cryptic to retconn it too. So that it doesn't destroy all your headcannon with it and what Cryptic has used it for. That is IF they go that way. Matalas said it will work for STO and this could mean a number of things(including ENT being Odyssey and refit to Yorktown and Ent-G being a Ross).

They should at some point have the E show up in a power move..... Sad.

Is Wesley crusher still a god?

They also wouldn't need the endurance of exploration ships that might be "out there" for weeks and months. They would patrol one sector and be tied to a base. But as all things Starfleet they probably do have the necessary labs and research capability in case there was a major scientific crisis and the answer to a slightly unusual variance in known physics, duly anticipated, but never seen, needs to be fully identified by next Tuesday.

as we have seen they don't think. Consider this. in Discos 31st century dilithium is practically gone ending warp travel. yet there are two bypasses around thios. one Romulan singualrity cores don't need dilithium. or usign Kurtzmen trek. the Protostar drive. they have no continuiy sense at all

If so, I can definitelly see it the way that happened many times before when one is destroyed, like in Ent-E case, last few moments of the series. I'm also seeing Picard getting to say a variant of his trademark line of "plenty of letters left in the alphabet". Maybe as they flyby the Ross class Ent-G constructed.

I think this is a likely answer. Yeah the Neo-Constitution Titan is brand new (or a very extensive refit), so I think Shaw's comments about the jazz in the ship's computer is from when he took over command of the Luna Titan. I think it was Seven who commented on the 'new ship' smell.

the Enterrpise CVN 65 was made in the 70s and only recently decomissioned.

Absolute nonsense. Being commissioned after 16 years makes zero sense. The ridiculous excuse that they can't fix issues lol.

My bet is on her being refit into the Yorktown class

Matalas said it will work for STO in the end. Expect Yorktown refitted F, Ross class Ent-G(subtly hinted in episode 1 on -Ent-D commentary, the way Titan-A was built etc.) or both.

See's a pilot. Seven/Annika Hansen is the first officer. And possibly 1st officer or Captain of the spinoff series(depending which role Speelers gets).

That's what I'm hoping for as well.

actually neo connie is inhouse

I'm quite sure there is a clause in the CBS-Viacom-Paramount contract with Cryptic that all STO ships rights to make toys and such fall mainly or exclusivelly to them, since otherwise they could end the contract and no ST for Cryptic. Its like what is happening with the fans series and such: where rights are concerned they're totally owned by the current rights holder(CBS-Viacom). They're like sub-contractors that can benefit through the game, paying CBS-Viacom a fee, but if CBS-Viacom wants to profit externally, from some design(like the ships they added to Canon from STO) all profits go to them. But maybe Cryptic and profit as well, if they sell goods that aren't part of canon. This would be dependant on contract safeguards and legalities.

So, and since Matalas has reportedly said/written: "everything will work for sTO in the end", I totally expect a refit to Yorktown and/or a Ross class -G successor.

@@evan_vangelisskoupras3085 well considering what they are trying to get away with Titan A I do not trust him. heck I trust no one in Kurtzmen trek. everythign he and JJ did needs to be erased.

Agree that STO has a better story, once you get out from under the space Barbie...since CBS already owns those stories, they could've lifted them directly from STO and made it all work...if you had writers and showrunners with a lick of sense, that is.

Yeah...and remove those holographic bits off of the phasers dammit! Lol! I don't see why STO can't be its own timeline AND get stories based on Prime Trek. Win-win. Like one reads a book even history but doesn't remember it accuratelly without referencing the original, so the general idea and concept is the same, but details differ somewhat. Then, when the original is difference, the details get ironed out and fixed. That's what STO is about and should be doing.

Sounds like its built on the hull of the Shangri-La, but with tech from the Luna.

You know when you have a bunch of Lego sets and you've lost pieces from each, but you can still use them to make things with, if you mash all the remaining parts together? Sounds like that's what was done here.

Perhaps Shaw captained the Luna-Titan (and had to delete Riker's files from that one) back when that ship was still flying, and was then transferred to the new Conny-Titan?

I think the showrunners wanted something that was reminiscent of the movies' Enterprise (NCC-1701, no bloody A, B, or C, [or D, or E]) and didn't care what loopholes the lore had to make to get it to work.

Agreed

i would love to see that too. but it would be far easier to just continue with the Titan-A considering the actors ages.. then either age regressing them via VFX or recasting

I genuinely can't put into words how much I want that exact scenario... only for the unexpected rescue to come from the Cerritos. Full on hero shot out of the nearest sun / nebula / convenient brightly lit space oddity. Preferably with the familiar Galaxy-like saucer first then the struts coming out of the light a few seconds later. The fandom wars would be never-ending! It'd even make sense from a timeline point of view as Starfleet utility ships seem to make do with hulls not made of explodium and have service lives measured in centuries...

Something about this series seems off without an Enterprise. I enjoy it but it’s missing that NCC 1701

Weather we like it or not it is Cannon.

@@tavonbrown1067 whether, canon.

@@tavonbrown1067 The writers have literally bragged about not watching TNG before they wrote this. Screw them.

Well,fortunately and thankfully...I never did..not after they ruined my favourite captain along with starfleet and the Federation.

You should watch his video on why this weird canon gatekeeping is absurd. It's canon, cry more.

Believing that corporate IP holders get the final say on how we interpret art is *a* philosophy, but not the only one.

Agreed!

@@drksideofthewal Probably the most reasonable counter-point I've seen in regards to this topic. Far better than the whole "this show is cancer to me, therefore it is not canon and you are cancer for thinking differently from me. I don't make the rules" viewpoint.

To add to my earlier point: Personally treating a show you don't like as non-canon is fine and dandy. But, attempting to force that viewpoint on others is not going to work well. As for Paramount: I don't like Paramount. I don't like corporations in general. But, until Star Trek is owned by some other person or corporation or is (by some glorious miracle) brought into the public domain, they get the final say on what's canon in Star Trek. Most of the time, they'll respect the writers' decisions in regards to canon, but they have the power to override them. What we as fans believe to be canon is basically subjective. Nothing wrong with that, but can we not be angry targs over opinions, please?

@@gjshomeofsilliness9391 I'm certainly not trying to "force my opinion," to be clear, but Literary Canon has existed long before corporate IP and has traditionally been defined by... people. So, trying to "force" the world view that canon is only defined by corporate IP holders and there's nothing anyone can do about it, in my opinion, pernicious. Especially coming from the fans of a series about a moneyless society.

Oh? Is she in it?

Probably not. So far Paramount's treatment of original STO designs have been "[pat head] that's nice, but not what we're looking for. Give us models reminiscent of classic Star Trek, but throw on a new skin."

Why not a new Picard spinoff with Seven and Crusher in the refitted Ent-F of Yorktown class?