🙈😬😂

Here to say that was my same reaction. Then the description afterwards 😂

HILARIOUS!! :-D

"Chain Jism": now THERE"s a marketing hook . . .

So you do use it on aMTB ? Where do you ride ? For me it seems so expensive and work intense, when Adam describes how to degrease a chain alone with 2 different things ,turps, and white spirits i believe. and 4 rounds of that, than the waxing etc. Seems a lot of work to me instead of lube and clean chain regularly. Especially when riding mtb in mud and grime. I´m honestl curious if it is worth it, or if this only work in california/australian weather. Thanks

Timing win!!! :)

I watched that video too and agree that some of that testing was a little strange, however later in that video eddy did redo the test and followed the manufacture’s recommendations.

SRAM products are junk and squirt lube is the easiest fastest option.

Just watched that video, I think the saute option was a reduced heat option so the wax wouldn't get too hot. I think Ollie was pretty good with his routine.

@@byrondixon4648 you can look up the specs of an instapot, sauté is not a reduced heat option, slow cooking is. Ollie made a mistake

thanks for flagging to me i will try to watch - i must say i am fairly allergic to watching GCN content due to some of the vids where they have - in my opinion - put out knowning terrible information to take the money from a sponsor - the GMBN one with Doddy saying the biggest mistake one can make is the clean off the factory grease was belter - paid to say by kmc cos kmc want to market that their factory grease is amazing. What a great thing to do, head out into the world of dirt and dust with factory grease rapidly turning into a grinding paste. Great service to their cycling audience and just how many tens of thousands of their viewers drivetrains did they ensure a very early death by abrasion and much wasted money on new components that could have lasted many times longer. I have seen waxing vids on GCN in the past, and they bemoaned noisy chain in very short order - because they simply didnt clean chain properly so the wax did not adhere - basic stuff like that. They just too often either do not have the correct knowledge - which in waxing case would take them all of 10 minutes of research to ensure done correctly - or they put out at times terrible advice because if a sponsor is paying - they will take the $$ thankyou very much. As such i find myself having involuntary twitching after seeing their content too often and so i try to avoid so that i dont see my doctor for a xanax prescription.

@@Adonis-qj1nq sorry, Ill bet you're correct. I'm thinking of going to waxing again and I was going to buy the cheapest slow cooker I could find or upgrade the kitchen one. I thought Ollie's cooker was overkill.

@@byrondixon4648 yeah as ZFC says any slow cooker will do the trick, especially if you leave the lid off. The wax will be hot enough to melt but never get high enough to burn. No point rushing things to gain a few minutes and risk ruining the wax or worse.

At what time and what vid was that statement made? It is true (and a fairly unique case) that a waxed chain that is using a top wax like mspeedwax / Silca hot melt / Ceramic speed UFO etc - because it is a solid lubricant, and all parts of chain are sliding on a polished super slippery coating of wax with extremely low stiction and no viscous friction = fastest lubricants known at this time - do have some sound, whereas many drip lubricants will dampen the sound and the chain may be very quiet - but the dampening of the sound does cost some energy to do so. Dampening the sound at the cost of some efficiency vs the sound of an immersive waxed chain is not remotely the same as a squeaking chain. Squeaking = metal on metal - and that is bad. You do not want that.

@@zerofrictioncycling992 Adam, bro, that was a joke. Any sentence prefixed with "Backwards Hat Dylan said..." is a meme and not to be taken seriously. :D The comments on the new GCN Tech video on the Silca Hot Wax are super positive and very referential to you, and your work, to educate bike riders and get us the best products. Thanks.

Hey Czaro - good question - i cant answer this categorically as i just have not been able to test them personally as its not that cold where i live and my airconditioning system cant get the workshop below freezing! Definitely all lubricants are affected by severe cold, but how much, and how - will vary quite a bit. Ie squirt i believe have a special low temperature version, and there are some others on the market as well that market a lubricant specifically for very cold temp use. I know that the immersive waxes of mspeedwax / hot melt will still work very well as they are a solid because a lot of immersive waxers live in pretty harsh winters in america, however shorter treatment lifespan may occur as the wax will be a bit harder and more brittle (and take longer to break in after re wax - it will be stiffer for longer each time). How well one wax drip lube will work vs its normal temp performance and vs competitors - i really do not know. I would initially write direct to the manufacturer and ask them how you can expect their product to perform in sub zero / expected temp vs normal temp range, and if they state it will still be amazing, what do they have that is tangible / objective information & data to back that stance - ie maybe they have in fact done extensive and robust field testing. Maybe it is just the owner who took it for a spin and said its amazing - dont be afraid to drill them for info - it is their product, they should know it perfectly or advise clearly the limitations of their testing - ie sorry we think it should be fine but we havent sufficiently field tested etc. I would write the 3 or 5 wax lubricant option mfg you are considering and see what responses you get. I have it on my list to try to get to do this as well but...yeah.... i am really pumpin each day to keep up as is

Thank you! Great information and I’d love to know more about that sub zero conditions as well. I’m from Germany and Love to ride in winter and harsh conditions!

This guy can't follow directions, you're supposed to apply one drop per link not pour the whole bottle on lol.

AH thankyou for letting me know i will look that one up soon, very interested re what he does and says this time.... :)

Correct with more wear

I go by hours, due to my mix of quite slow outside speed and Zwift rides

Hi Kevin, you are absolutely correct - and especially with use on gravel and mtb etc - km's guide becomes way out. Overall hours is a much better guide and i will try to transition communication across to that. km's is a hang over from the early early days...

Great feedback - yeah honestly squirt is a tricky one - i see feedback from users ranging from it just works and at a great price to the same as your experience. I personally find the lubricants like that can definitely be too dirty and tacky after a couple of applications for my liking, they are a hard clean reset, and the penetration issues post reset - it is a lot of faff. There is a reason why squirt is $15 a bottle and ss drip is 50! Unless pushed past its treatment lifespan ss drip is very low wear. It is not the longest lasting per treatment so for most it needs re application every 2nd or 3rd ride, and needs at least that overnight set time - but it is an easy application and just stays so clean and low wear. It is not long lasting at all in the wet - so users need to factor that if frequently do very long wet rides - but it is vastly easier to clean and reset post wet rides vs squirt. Overall the price difference is covered many many many many times over with the much lower wear, and just much easier to maintain a very clean drivetrain. Have a read here re re-using master links - especially if you have msw - a great system for you would be to start waxed, re lube next 5 times with ss drip, then re -wax to reset any contamination that may have started to build (or post any wet ride) - and repeat. That way most only re waxing every circa 1000 to 1500km, and re using links 5x - 5000 to 7500km per link making cost of links negligeable. No master link is on the market with a safety buffer of one use. Mfg just mostly take the ultra safe line to sell more links. YOu still have to make the call to go against mfg instructions - but in nearly 6 years of zfc and countless thousands of waxers re using single use links - to date i have received all of 2 master link failure reports, and both of those they are not 100% if they installed properly (ie did they lock in on both sides of link). YBN qrs links are 5x re useable officially, but honestly i do not think they are more secure on 5th use vs a single use link on the 5th use. They are not doing anything magic with the lock in channel. You can also look at wippermann connex links if you want a link you can pop on and off for the life of the chain - but really that will only be handy for 100% immersive waxing and people that need to re wax frequently (gravel etc). zerofrictioncycling.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/Master-Link-FAQ-Guide.pdf head to page 8 for re using master links

@@zerofrictioncycling992 dude! Incredible props sent your way for the details. Thanks a ton. May go find that pile of msw I have in the garage right now and get on this.....

One drop per link buddy, It's amazing how I've had the complete opposite experience with squirt lube? It's the best I've ever used, Your using too much obviously.

yes i think they have a series of 3 video's. Normally josh & i are pretty aligned with most things in this space - but i think the allure of the brugger machine and it being so quick and visual for you tube - it is a tempting mistress. Whilst on his testing there is some alignment with known great products testing well, and known poor products testing poorly - just note that really if you say tested 50 lubricants, a number of outstanding lubricants would return a poor result in this test, and yet it would be zero indication re its performance on a bicycle chain, and some really poor lubricants on a bicycle chain (ie ones that rapidly attract contamination) would return ok results. And there is the issue with most wax lubricants which will be excellent show very badly in a brugger test. It would be amazing if this test was able - even just with wet lubricants - return a great indication of performance - if that was the case, believe me i just would have bought one of these and tested about 500 lubricants by now vs the extremely laborious test i need to use. Sadly it just flat out is not the case.

@@zerofrictioncycling992’ve been waxing for a while now with Hot Melt and recently bought some SS Drip to use as a top up. He say to immersion wax every 1000ks and top off with SS drip every 150ks. Mostly to make up for the compression of the initial treatment and to keep it quite. I think I’m your general PDF you say to re immersion wax every 300km. ( both given all conditions are pretty good and clean). Is it much of a muchness ? I found after around 150ks on the trainer, the chain sounds slightly rattly but not dry. Could this just be the outer plates while under the rollers still ok ? It’s very faint. Thanks for the detailed responses mate.

@@10100110101 ah most excellent that is a great system. The initial compaction - yes top up does help keep quieter for longer but for me it is a little bit of a much of muchness, if i dont top up initially, i still get a great stretch of silky silent smooth running - then i can top up when it starts to sound and feel dry. This might be a little bit longer if i top up initially, but it seems really i am just shifting the first top up to a different spot - there is still plenty of wax after initial treatment and first ride for a good time before i need to worry about re wax or top up. Trainer can often sound more dry more quickly km's wise - firstly there are typically no rolling kms - ie where i live i might initially spend 20 mins riding at 250w to ride 10km up hill, then i have 10km of zooming along at almost no load. On a trainer after 20 mins of 250w and however many kms that was, it is normally followed by another 20 mins of solid watts. And some use training mostly for higher intensity sessions etc so a lot of the km's done are at higher load vs what may be there average on road etc. In short normally treatment lifespans are shorter -AND you hear it more easily without wind in your face :). I would re wax / top up as soon as it starts to be clear it is sounding and feeling dry. It is hard to say re rattly / not dry and if it is plates or rollers etc without really hearing and feeling personally - sounds & feel and interpretation can be fairly subjective from one person to another - but if its rattly something must be pretty dry i would think....

I didn’t even think about the non coasting element of riding on the trainer ! Wonderful point ! Thank you. With that knowledge I’m pretty happy with re waxing on it earlier. Thanks again for the detailed reply !

Thanks sarah - yes for application on bicycle chain - i just have concerns it is valid. Some lubricants that test very well in my test have tested poorly in brugger, or tested well. Some terrible lubricants in my test have tested well in Brugger. But - considering wax emulsion lubricants - which mostly dominate now due to chain coating ONCE SET when carrier has evapped - it is unlikely they will do well in Brugger - and yet he has tested squirt as such - so testing 50% water, and reporting a poor result. Not cool. And then to also test its contamination resistance whilst wet and report a poor result.... not cool. Incorrect testing is just more poor information / miss information muddying the waters for already bamboozled by claims consumers. This really does not help, only hinders. So why.... why do this..... i think he wants to add value to this space, so just... why did he do this..... it hurts!

I must say though the response rate is poor! They either dont respond, or - they respond saying give them a week or two to properly answer questions raised, and then i never hear from them again even when i follow up. I think this rather strengthens the case that they have NOTHING tangible they can provide to stand behind marketing claims.

Would like to know the answer as well. Although I've been using homemade immersion paraffine wax about every 1000km, and Squirt in between to top up.

You can - but its not as recommended vs silca ss drip, ufo drip or tru tension tungsten all weather. As it is a different wax (slack wax) and has a higher oil content - using frequently as top up lube MAY begin to cause re wax issues over time. If it is infrequent (such as cycling holiday) - one or two applications, run those applications until chain starts to feel & sound dry - then there is very little left to negatively contaminate wax in the pot and users have had no issues.

@@spektrumB - see above - if your paraffin is not very refined then - for sure - just not over time not very refined will get gunky. If highly refined (lab grade / food grade - which is REALLY what you should be running - then see above answer)

@@zerofrictioncycling992 Thanks very much for your time. I just discovered some unused lubes from my journey from R&R Gold then Squirt before finding your website and getting onto the good stuff. MSW and SilcaSS as a top up and post wet ride.

He hates squirt because it's cheap and awesome lol.

Hey there - 5k km from a chain is ok - (its not bad for a kmc) - but lifespan can vary a lot in real world due to many factors including power, type of riding, how much contamination is introduced and when, how much wet riding, maintenance intervals and type etc etc. If this was mtb then 5k is pretty impressive for squirt. Squirt is overall a pretty good product, so if happy with that, then stay with that. I think the formula they have now is updated vs my test a long time ago now. But squirt and similar (smoove / grax etc) arent yet perfect. Whilst they have high dust resistance being wax, and good treatment longevity - they have significant initial penetration issues, and are not as easy to clean for maintenance (then you need to again negate penetration issues). If one pretty much only rides in dry - then this is not a big deal. But wet conditions rides, one really should reset contamination now inside chain as it wont really go anywhere - and resetting chains with squirt is a bit more work than many other lubricants, so if frequent wet, they can be a bit of work to keep low friction, and the more easily reset wax drips like ufo, silca ss drip etc that also have no penetration issues can be a great option, also effetto mariposa flower power is a brilliant product - it runs a bit visually dirty due to the type of wax, but it is very low wear and high performing, no penetration issues - reset easily with their own alpine extra etc. But yes - overall - 5k for a kmc 11spd offroad is impressive.

@@zerofrictioncycling992 Wow, first of all a big thanks you for your answer. I am an all year driver , so i think 1/3 are surely in wet conditions. But i immediately clean my drivetrain after the ride and freshen up the wax. Had no issues with shifting performance at all. I just looked up the alternatives your recommended and they all more expensive then squirt .Refering to your penetration issues , i make sure that the squirt is quite warm before i apply it , so that I have nor problem with that , but i am a price-performance nerd 🤪. I still have 250 ml of squirt , so i think i will use that to the end and the new chain will be a KMC again. After all i am experienced at degreasing new chains , may be the next step is to switch to hot wax. In your answer i felt like KMC is not your favourite , but dam i like that gold colour 😬. Joke aside , what is your favourite chainbrand in a comparable price category. Greetings from Germany to Down under 👋

@@19ronin76 ah my pleasure - and yep squirt is a good performer overall, but unless they have a new formula that i havent tested yet, original squirt is being shown up a bit by some new players on the block. I would look up the application guide on zfc to help ensure penetration post clean. And yep for kmc have not been the best from what we have seen in testing and in general as well from customer base with regards to wear life and also for waxers treatment lifespan, so you must be looking after things well. Attempts to get further information on some things with kmc failed. By far the most popular here in 11spd is ybn sla chains - we sell around 2k of them per year, which is a lot for a very small business like zfc. They are a great blend of fast + wear life, + colours, i am like you - i much prefer to run anything other than silver!! :)

Hey simon! - for road bike no - there really isnt anything to clean. Offroad (ie muddy mtb rides) - just the wash of the bike post ride takes care of it - hosing off cassette and its back to mint - it is so, so much easier vs what those on most drip lubricants have to do where a gritty wet lube needs to be solvent cleaned of and some solid work with a cloth. With wax it couldnt be any faster and easier.

@@zerofrictioncycling992 thanks for the quick help

Set time will vary - if you hang to set in high ambient temp (ie waxing outside / shed on a hot day) - it is probs about 20 mins set time. Most normal room temps its about 10 mins set time. I remember a friend of mine once forgot his chain was in the pot before about to leave for a group ride - he took it out of pot, put it on a cloth and put in the freezer for a minute. He had a cloth stock to the chain but it was set :)

I havent really as what is classed as a dry lubricant can vary depending on what you want to include. I would class UFO Drip, ss drip, immersive waxing etc as dry lubricants - in which case the vs case against wet lubricants is very strong in favour of dry lubricants. But if you class muc off c3 dry, finish line dry (not tested but seen through workshop - ouch), white lighting, wend wax, ab graphen wax..... well the case for top wet lubes vs these dry lubes is very strong in favour of wet. Dry vs wet if including terrible dry lubricant products - the comparison is not helpful. Mostly i delineate by top wax lubricants (which you could class as dry) vs top wet lubricants - and then by cycling type - ie top wet lubricants are great for road cycling, not at all for offroad. Probably cost to run modelling video would be a good one to start, as well as key learings video (sorry i forget episode numbers off hand but will be easily found if you search - i am just zinging through latest questions at flat out speed atm :)

Aerosol or drip? The aerosol will be bad (aerosol is a bad way to go for bicycle chains) - drip - no idea - unless i can get a spot to test really it could be anywhere from terrible to very impressive to meh - i have it on my long list but no idea when i might get too.....

@@zerofrictioncycling992 When the pandemic started I bought 4 fl oz Bike Dry Chain Lube, drip, to try on my mountain bike. It's pretty sticky, not dry at all, maybe it would work in wet conditions, but I can't tell because in my town there is very little rain all year round. After every short ride on pavement alone, the dirt stuck to the chain and it felt like the chain was grinding sand. In conclusion, I stopped using it after a couple of rides on pavement only. Don't even think about using it on trails.

I have recently started using it for wiping down the chain on my road bike. It seems to do well for me in my SoCal dry conditions. I often ride on the coast. The main lube inside the chain is Effetto Mariposa and the combination has been very good.

Wouldn't it be too thick?

It would be getting it into the rollers and pins property. Unless it was mixed with some type of carrier or mixed with hot wax. 🤷🏻‍♂️

No that is unlikely to be a good option for bike chain. Aerosol spray lubricants tend to be very thin (they have to be sprayed) and so it takes a fair bit of spraying to get a very thin amount deep into the chain where it is needed. If you applied super often and generously, maybe you will have sufficient lubrication to deliver ok wear rates - but it is going to cost you a fortune in product use vs vastly more efficient method of dripping a proven top bicycle chain lubricant on. And many would come up against treatment lifespan issues for long rides, or wet rides etc.

Overall many find squirt to be a solid choice, especially for the price. The main thrust of this video is that it is an extremely poor test to test lubricants that need a set time whilst they are still wet, especially re contamination adherence where obviously particles stick to wet much more vs if one has a set semi solid wax etc.

No, using that test on wax emulsion lubricants is garbage. Squirt is overall a solid choice for many, if used properly.

Top pros use it by choice because it's the best.

Thanks G, and yes my apologies i am what you have in this space for the moment. This is most definitely not my forte, and was not planned when i started ZFC as a hobby - i am not one for public speaking or the camera, and my social media and IT skills border on non existent. But since very few will ever read long documents covering such things - i have had to simply bite the bullet and in between very big work & family days - shove myself uncomfortably on camera and cover. My hope is that a) as much as i enjoy working in this space - that retirement is not far off, and b) someone much better and skilled will take over and improve what i have started as what was meant to be a couple hours a day hobby re testing + easy online - things have kinda well exceeded that!

@@zerofrictioncycling992 You are a true gentleman, thank you for taking my comment as intended.. constructive criticism. I appreciate your challenges and wish the best for you, whatever that may be. The knowledge being shared and the education being given is priceless and certainly greatly appreciated by all AVID cyclists, as you call them 😀👍

Overall honestly its brilliant. Original formula came from john thomson working with jason smith of friction facts for the first UFO chains (jason started UFO, John started mspeedwax). Then it basically ruled the roost really for about a decade before any serious challengers came along like silca hot melt and rex black diamond - but they had been taking that time to work on version 2 - which was a big jump overall on v1. So they are right at the top re outright performance and super low wear, but at a price point notably less than key competitors. So they have been a top recommendation from ZFC for a very long time indeed.

Yes FP is an extremely good product. The negative for it are that it does run fairly black so its not the cleanest looking, but it does not become abrasive returning the lowest wear rate for a drip lubricant to date. But some basic periodic maintenance with their alpine extra makes it easyish to keep things looking groovy.

@@zerofrictioncycling992 wow thats awesome! I just ordered 120ml to give it a try. thx for the recommendation! Ive been using "optimize" chainwax ever since. i think i did not find that in your list. Its pretty popular over here in germany. Maybe you can add it? Would be great to see where it stands in your list. cheers, awesome channel!