thanks kenny!! (*insert luv heart here..)

Oh sorry re question of visual results - at this stage immersive wax wise, it is really down to choosing between mspeedwax / hot melt as at this time, they are both amazing, and both look pretty visually similar. Even then looking at top chain coating type super fast lubricants in a bottle like UFO drip and silca SS drip - again -they will all look overall very clean, a little bit of black spots here and there from the special friction modifiers in the wax that are a dark colour. But really especially with immersive wax chains, by the time they start to look a bit more black from whats in the wax, it is time to re-wax, and the chain comes back out of the pot looking brand new again. If maintaining dedicated race chain on other lubricant choices, if following either container or ultrasonic method to reset contamination between races (and depending on lube / level you want to go to, applying via pot / bottle / ultrasonic after cleaning ready for next race) - even if it is a wet lubricant, the top wet lubricants dont get that dirty before it is reset time again to keep race chain mint ready for re application and next race. A notable exception to all this from what has been tested thus far wax wise was absoluteblack's graphenwax was comparatively dirty looking, and it was quite dirty to handle (black fingers). And it showed very high wear, so it is big case of ZFC does not recommend that particular wax. There are some other waxes on the market that i have on my long list for testing, it is possible there are other genuine contenders out there that may give mspeedwax / hot melt a run - i just have not had remotely near the time to get to yet - my test list really is something - and a key initial goal for any lubricant category is to find a genuine outstanding product to stock and recommend. Having that with msw / hot melt - at this time i have some other priority tests to get done before another immersive wax would be on the test list. And we already know from some companies previous terrible products that are pretty much a marketing con job (in my opinion) like wend rub on wax - their immersive wax i feel has an extremely low probability of being something that will challenge the top known waxes. Finally there is oh so much out there on the internet re DIY waxing. A follower recently sent me an instagram video of a cycling coach using one candle to melt another candles wax onto chain. And there are a number of prolific you tube channels that have frankly terrible DIY wax advice / instructions. Avoid. Just, avoid. cheap paraffin base / candles - they contain a lot of impurities (often soy / palm oil - not fast, and contaminate quickly) as well as a high mineral oil content (not fast, gets dirty and gunky quickly). Just using pure candles or cheap paraffin - obviously - you will get what you pay for - a crap result. Adding moly / wso / paraffin to a crap base wax is a waste of money - you are putting lipstick on a pig. A dead pig. So - as a minimum one needs a very high quality paraffin base if going to DIY - such as gulf canning wax, but even then, the hardness of the wax is CRITICAL. Too soft, we see what happens with graphenwax. Too hard and it is too brittle and very short lifespan. The goldilocks zone achieved by msw / silca is a super tight zone to get absolute fastest wax as well as great treatment longevity. YOU WILL NOT ATTAIN THIS WITY YOUR DIY WAX. You have no control testing to base your waxes performance on. You do not have PHD chemists working for years to develop and test. You will not wing it and achieve a super fast amazing wax that matches the likes of msw or hot melt following the BS pumped out by so, so many channels / insta accounts. i get the drive by many to tinker and DIY, but some areas are honestly best left to the experts. you should not DIY your chain lube any more than you would DIY your engine oil. With some top tier chain ring + cassette + chain groupsets costing circa $1500 aud to replace - dont screw around with it. MSw is $44.90 aud for a bag of amazing wax that will last circa 8000 to 10,000km of road riding. By the time one buys shit base + delivery, moly or wso from elsewhere + delivery, sometimes also PTFE from elsewhere plus delivery - it costs more than just buying the proven amazing stuff, and one still has a heap of crap wax blend. (Note MSW has moved away from PTFE, and hot melt never had it - one place recommends 50 grams - 50 grams!!!!!! per pound. Enormous waste - their blends are pulled out of where the sun does not reach, as are other information like 400km break in run etc etc. Sorry i have taken the opportunity of your question to go on quite a tangent / rant there - the above will be on a future vid - but i yep it is a bit of hot topic atm as just so so much crap being pumped out on so many channels i am forever trying to fix DIY waxings gone oh so wrong. Back to your question though :) - Visually - top known waxes and wax chain coating lubricants all look very similar, and all look very clean :)

yep i may re do a chain cleaning vid from start to finish methinks..

thanks philip! no cassettes done have anything applied that needs to be cleaned off which makes this easier!

Hey Robin now i havent tried that one but maybe its worth a look - there are probs a few industrial ish products out there that probably work well, the main thing is are they generally available and accessible globally - if not they wont really be able to make the recommendation list. CS and UFO arent that easy to get in lots of places either, so i do have plans to expand the current chain prep testing once completed those two fancy products as a starting point. Also most times (not always) products are designed to dissolve grease / oils OR waxes - rarely both - ideally if the mmm10145 works as hoped it wouldnt need follow up solvent baths or its not really any less faff than just the current traditional solvent method which works perfectly.

They are ok. For 11spd - they are so expensive that vs a pack of qrs 11 ybn links that will last one circa 12,000 to 15,000km - it is just easier to got the pack of QRS links. i used to stock wipperman, and the tool less install / removal is cool - but too many customers kept installing upside down and having link clunk / jump ever time around drivetrain in smaller cogs. Not amazing in a race, or a gran fondo. And have had two where the pin separated from the base plate. And they do not have wear resistant treatments (chromium plated pins etc) and so if one uses for life of a quality chain, they wear notably more. And as you note, they oxidise easily too. Last i saw the 11spd were over $30 for a link, and so with all of the above factored in, for me not worth it to stock / recommend - that said, some waxers use them and absolutely love them - so if they work for the person - all good.

Hey BZ! Ultrasonic cleaner can be great if you have one, but i wouldnt spend the $$ to specifically get one unless you are looking to make your own fully optimised race chains. it wont change whether or not you will have a good time with kmc chains. It seems simply that the low friction coating KMC use prevents wax bonding as well, and so they simply sound and feel dry much more quickly than other brands, and this is just a bit of a pain for waxing as you need to wax more frequently or you will have a really dry feeling and sounding chain which is not so pleasurable, and the wear rate will be higher if riding with very dry chain. KMC deny this of course. And it doesnt appear this is limited to immersive waxes, but many wax lubricants and even some wet lubricants appear to be shucked off pretty well. No wonder they dont want you to clean off their factory grease. They have even advised waxers not to clean off factory grease!!! Not just from my own testing, but from around the world i will get emails from new waxers wondering why its not so pleasurable instead of being silky smooth happiness, and 9 out of ten times the person is using a kmc chain, the other one it ten its normally a prep issue. So real world is strongly backing my field and control testing. And kmc are not always super duper re honesty of information in my opinion - ie the whole factory grease Bullshite they push, their DLC chains where their is no DLC on any key load surfaces it is just a super expensive cosmetic coating that does nothing for chain longevity - and i could go on. That said, if you ahve the chains, for sure clean them and for sure you will still get best life out of them by choosing proven best lubricant options, just be ready to re apply or re wax a lot more frequently and thus it can be a good idea to run two in rotation etc if you have mulitple. As long as you have them effectively lubricated, they are at least fast chains - so they have one base covered well at least :)

Hi Nick sorry for delay reply, i wasnt getting notifications! should be fixed now.. Shimano chains are one of the rare chains that is still directional (along with sram flat top). They only chamfer the leading edge of the outer plates for shifting on one side, so if you install the wrong way around, shifting may not be as good. They have shimano writing / model number of chain etc stamped in on plates on one side only, that side must be facing you / outwards - as long as do that you have installed correctly, there is no upside down - just writing must face out. Like a claymore mine :)

@@zerofrictioncycling992 the claymore :D what a comparison.

Hey James, yes as hard as it is to believe that is not legal (it is EXTREMELY low toxicity, there will be so many other household use chemicals much higher enviro toxicity than metho - political optics....) - your next best is isopropyl alcohol - just a lot more expensive, or acetone - again more expensive and ensure take precautions re fumes as it evaporates very quickly (acetone is the best finish prep just a PITA re cost and fumes - typically one bath is fine its powerful stuff

you dont set a temperature. It is not an ultrasonic cleaning solution as such, so just run as is at room temp. it will heat up itself over time due to cavitation. UFO DT clean around 60dg c is great.

Yeah.... but then you need something to clean off the wd-40 to run a proven top lubricant! I havent tested it on wax as not many solvents work effectively on waxes, i would be very surprised if wd-40 did as normally waxes require a specific agent and i doubt a formula designed to be a general purpose lubricant + water displacement would have that - but i have been suprised in the past. However even if it did, to then have an effective working re lube with wax lubricant or re wax - you would have to clean off the wd-40 so that just seems like a faffy path to take to me. I would skip the middle man and just use a product like ufo clean that dissolves wax and then rinse with water, dry, re apply or re wax. Similarly maybe it dissolves oil on wet lubricant chains great - but - then if running a top wet lubricant like synergetic, black diamond, revolubes - does one want those top lubricants mixed / contaminated with a vastly inferior chain lubricant of wd-40? one is still going to want to clean off the wd-40 before applying a top lubricant. We want top lubricant - wet or wax - to be bonding to clean and clear chain metal and not contaminated with other stuff..

@@zerofrictioncycling992 yes, you need to remove the WD-40, but that one comes off easily with regular degreaser. Points taken though! Thanks.

Generally if the fluid is a lower viscosity the lower frequency will cavitate better - so for water base cleaners (ultrasonic specific cleaners) and solvents i would use 44, for products like ufo drive train clean or waxing i would use 30

Thanks. One further question, wrt Silca Secret Hot Melt wax, if I were to put the wax pellets into a glass jar and then put this glass jar into a water bath in my ultrasonic machine would that work? I'd prefer not to put the pellets directly into the machine's tray since I intend to use it for other purposes. @@zerofrictioncycling992

yes for sure - and then depending on the race to training km ratio - for most by the time the training chain is getting near to 0.5, then move that on, race chain becomes next training chain, one new chain to be next dedicated race chain

hey there yes indeed - instructions tab on website - zerofrictioncycling.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Chain-prep-Guide-Concise-v2.pdf and general chain maintenance guide as well zerofrictioncycling.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/chain-maintenance-guide-v5.pdf

is this a parody comment?! It really seems like a parody comment. I am not sure you are on the right channel for you. There are tons of forums of chain cleaning and lubricating advise that I think you will really like much more. First pls read the section re diy waxing in my waxing FAQ guide, and then if i can humble ask that such advice is not further propagated on any ZFC channels, i work hard enough as it is to correct very poor info / advice.