Dutch Bushcraft Knives What are your thoughts about a esee 4 with 440c steel. Do you think its better than the 1095?

Dutch Bushcraft Knives there's always a lot of controversy about everytopic on the internet so don't worry BTW if you don't like it send it to me I can always use a good quality knife ;)

I would not worry about the angry comments too much. This seems to be the new trend, that everybody gets offended if you have an opinion that he or she disagrees with. These people are for freedom of speech but only if you share their opinion. I enjoy your channel and your honest reviews! Greetings from Germany!

Dutch Bushcraft Knives It's called a Tek Lok.,,.

At least you were the one with enough balls to say it

+N. Montero thank you so much for your kind comments! It really does mean a lot to us! Thank you!

Couldn't have said it better myself. We watch this channel to get an unbiased opinion from someone who knows what they're talking about.

The Saw naw man I ain’t like em I stick to my classic bark rivers

You can tell you don't hike...you just like to comment and your good at that...but if you really been out in the filed you would know this is a good knife no matter what he says..so to the fake hiker keep up with the good comments no acting please

First off the blade is 40 degrees not 50 as I have this knife, 2nd you destroyed the edge then blamed Esee which coming out of the box is extremely sharp 3rd you are right it will rust if not cared for but the great thing about 1095 steel is it’s easy to sharpen and mine holds its sharpness pretty well and if you get stainless you won’t be able to sharpen it in the field and it breaks easier than 1095.

Amanzig! I agree...Greetings from Germany!

@Josh ? So a jack of all trades, a master of none?

@NightClubO'Holic I was talking about the knife. Lol

I agree, and no, the ESEE 4 is not a Bush craft knife. Survival is not about "craft" it's about using your head. The knife is just a tool, that if you use your head, will make life a lot easier...

I have a rat 1 by okc , it strikes my ferro rods like a champ coating no issue

thanks a lot Theron!

Which doesn't at all capture the fact that Esee knives are actually quite high performers with much thinner ground knives than something you would find with Cold Steel or the similar RAT knives from Ontario

@@donjuanmckenzie4897 RAT knives ARE the original Esee and use the same steel. lol

@@jeffreyphillips3419 Yeah but they aren't made as well.

@@jeffreyphillips3419 same steele different heat treat

+2010chingonoutdoorsman thanks a lot Marco ! You 2

+Dan Werkman thanks a lot for the kind words Dan! You are very welcome!

So lots of rave reviews on Esse knives and you believe this guy's video saying he dulled his knife feather sticking? OK...right...

@@justinrowan4069 they don’t understand esse knifes.

Thanks for sharing Olga! I also love the Becker knives a lot better!

The Becker bk2 Is a 1095 cro van steel it’s a tougher steel then the typical 1095 Carbon steel

I sold it after the video haha

Aww man, well if you guys get a chance would love to see you guys compare some Ontario knives or ESEE knives.

+allritythen thanks a lot mate. check these out Bark River gunny cpm3v Bark River aurora cpm3v Bark River bravo 1 rampless 3v Bark River bushcrafter 3v Lionsteel m4 m390 Fallkniven f1 pro, s1 pro or a1 pro Enzo trapper elmax Mora garberg Survive knife GSO 4.1 3v

Before you had responded and based on your video I ended up getting the Mora Robust for now and It is awesome. I love it.

thanks !

Your exactly right these super steel fanboys don’t understand that their knife will snap before this one does. Each has their use. Dulls fast You can always sharpen it you can’t use a broken knife.

What was the name of that book?

Hey thanks for your comment. I will contact Esee to see what they have to say. My experiences have been so bad that it wouldn't surprise me if I got lucky enough to get a badly heat treated blade. Does your esee have patina on it? one time I was sharpening my Esee on a wet stone and I got a call. 5 minutes later the blade was all stained and the stains were deep :(. I will disassemble the handle scales soon to see if there is a digit. I'll post a video if I find anything out about my Esee being badly heat treated. Bedankt!

Yess a little patina on the engraving/logo due to all of the acidic fruits i cut lemon, lime and oranges... im curious what esee has to say... greets...

RedFatCat78 I sent them a mail and got a quick respons. I might send mine back to exchange it for a 440c. But I can't take the company serious anymore after their mail. I've posted the mail as comment above

I agree

Dutch Bushcraft Knives I have the 440c and like it. I live in the humid south east us and prefer stainless steel

+hock4540 thanks a lot! I totally agree!

thanks a lot mate! you are welcome!

both tops and Becker are a lot better than Esee in my opinion. Esee seems overhyped as they don't break. however.. bending is just what happens if you don't harden a steel. Balance is key and in my opinion esee is way of that balance in terms of toughness vs edge retention

thanks mate, I really love fallkniven as well!

I would say a bk 16 as it will stay sharp longer.

ESEE 4

The esee4 doesn't make sense to me... and the bk16 seemed great until I held it and it felt alien. But yes the 4 is either too thick, too short, too soft or too big for edc. The 3hm and 6hm/6 are great--the 3hm is thin yet tough with a fantastic handle and the 6 is mind-blowingly capable for anything ever, thick enough to cut and thin enough for details. The choil only makes sense to me in the 6 where you don't lose handle space and it adds a dimension to the big knife (for the others it just takes away from a nice handle)... But nonetheless my next knife is likely a f1--I love small knives with real handles for when the esee6 is too big/scary.

Agreed! thanks a lot for the comment!

Dutch Bushcraft Knives I've been saying this for years. 1095 is a very cheap steel that rust too easily and doesn't hold an edge very well and people always scream it's all in the heat treat. Esee and tops knives has been BS'ing the knife Community far too long. We need to demand super steel expect only the best.

david drake i agree but it does hold a very good edge as it can be heat treated to like 66HRC when quenched though

1095 may be an inexpensive steel, but it's been around a damn long time & has well proved itself as a blade steel. As far as it rusting, well, if your not to lazy to maintain a carbon steel blade then rust isn't a problem. Of course, knife makers are using a lot of stainless these days for you folks that don't know how to, or are to lazy to maintain a carbon steel blade. And this younger "millennial generation" have been brainwashed into believing that there are actually "super steel" knife blades when the fact is there isn't. All knife blades will dull & all knife blades have their "breaking and/or chipping" point. Now, I can't speak for the 1095 steel ESEE uses in their knives but only knives I've had in 1095 steel, none of which have been an ESEE. Also, if you been around long enough, you'd find out, for every 5 people that swears by all the 01, D2, CPM3V, etc. "super steels, there are 1000 people that'll swear by 1095 steel. Makes you wonder how people ever survived and built this world without having stainless "super steel" knives!!

oldtimer4567 the problem is very simple knife manufacturers continue to want to use cheaper carbon steels. they have been proven to not be as effective and durable as steels like s35vn CPM 3v 01 tool steel and m390. they want to charge top dollar for an inferior cheap Steel. This doesn't just pertain to rusting. 1095 does not hold an edge well. That's just simple science. there is absolutely no comparison between cpm3v and 1095. 3V will completely Slaughter it in every category. to me the only benefits of having 1095 Spring Steel is if it's my only knife and I'm heavily abusing it in a survival situation and I don't have to worry about the blade breaking in half. The knife will bend before it breaks. The funny thing is cpm3v will do the same thing. right now it is the steel that serious bushcrafters want today. We've had enough of 1095. It's a cheap and fear and they're much better Metals out there. why settle for less? I bet you married a big fat ass hog because she was the first dumbass bitch that would take your marriage proposal

It should be much better but unless you are living in the USA it is still too expensive for what you get. The USA price is good but in Europe you can get M390 or elmax for the same price or less.

thanks Elcas!

Dutch Bushcraft Knives what knife would yuou recommend is better

Expensive? Can get them for like $90.... Meanwhile they review and own knives that are like $600.

@@AG.Floats I got mine for like 76 USD plus tax

hey mate, I don't have other esee knives so I can't see if mine is a bad example but I do know 1095 is a budget steel and the Esee knives don't come at a budget price. I've had some decent experiences with 1095-cro-van on my becker bk 2 @ 58 hrc but 55-57 HRC is just not fit for smaller knives. this hardness is for machete's or huge choppers. Esee has an ok edge retention if you keep the huge angle of the factory bevel but if you wan't optimal cutting performance the steel is too weak. I own a lot of knives and they all have better edge retention than my esee has even in smaller angles. Be aware that esee has very good marketing (a bit like bear grylls with his knives) A lot of people think something is awesome because the rest of the people think it's awesome. This is whyI got a lot of hate on this video. I'm not saying this review determines how good or bad esee is but it's my personal experience and opinion. it's healthy to make yours with an open mind. If the knife really appeals to you you should get it and try it. If you end up not liking it there is a whole world wanting to buy that knife from you. Just don't make something awesome because you spend money on it and it needs to be awesome haha. I have to say I am as sucker for edge retention. The esee knives are very sturdy and the sheath is very awesome. I just didn't like the steel. I would personally choose the 440c version which would be better I think. hope this helps!

+All the Tea.. Get the ESEE 6, then you'll see. Fact- this guy ^ had shit luck.

Dutch Bushcraft Knives Dude, here is the problem I think, I have trained with Mike Perrin and Jeff Randall, as has Dave Canterbury, and many other survivalist. Esee is not at all like Bear Grylls these guys are proven shooters and know there business and came up with these knife designs because of a gap in the marketplace. This is why you're getting the responses you get. you're in your 20s and own a lot of knives,. How many knives do you think Mike Perrin has owned? Or Ethan Becker whom himself collaborated with Esee knives to make his chef knives. These guys use the knives they make in a myriad of different settings and environments with a great deal of success. Bushcraft and survival are two very different things. There are things I don't like about Falkniven and Mora but, they are great slicers have good serviceable edges and relatively comfortable handles, but both handles have grip and hard use issues over time.

Clarification on ESEEs.. I obviously like Esee, but I'm not a fan boy and they're not perfect so I'm going to share some issues I have with them here. I have a few Izulas peppered around in certain kits and applications, a 6, a 5, two 4s, and an Esee 3. And in that experience, have learned there is a degree of unjustified hype associated with them: - The threaded bushings used to secure the scales are constricted of soft aluminum. When I received it, the handles where not torqued down, so I disassembled it, then reassembled it with some lock-tight. Without torquing hard, I started to strip two of them. I explained this to them and they bluntly said to send $2 for each bushing or send back the whole thing. They were very blunt about this, like barely taking up a whole line, leaving me to think it would be more efficient for them to have just typed, "FUCK YOU". Would I opt to send it back and pay for postage so their "scientists" can take on the sophisticated operation of replacing a bushing and tightening down a screw? No, it would be a pain in the ass, especially because of the timing. So upon receipt of this blunt reply, I inquired as to whether or not he smoked crack and then suggested it might just be better if I smashed it to pieces so they can just replace the whole thing for free. Anyway, I forget the threading, but I replaced them with steel bushing spacers, like Esee should, but continues to fail to do for some reason. It's a little like Ferrari equipping their cars with a set of tires with the traction of melon skins. Senseless ineptitude, or deliberately blatant.. I don't know. - If you're in the military, you might find yourself annoyed going the Esee route. Black sheaths are known as, "bullseye black" because they literally leap out under the IR necessary to utilize night vision, which makes it a thing to avoid. Esee makes certain color schemes for their blades and handles that would serve us well in the theater, notably desert tan and even better, dark earth. But these sought after color schemes seem to come STRICTLY with black sheaths (except the Esee 4 in desert tan which comes with an OD sheath, *BUT*, with SHINY fasteners ffs) especially the dark earth color that matches the multicam ACUs presently worn. End result, if you want dark earth, you'll also need to buy an additional sheath in either coyote brown or olive drab to be consistent. They're smart and military minded, so I can't help but sense the smirk I'm getting as they nickel and dime me and others in this regard. - On the Esee 6, the micarta scales didn't mate perfectly with the tang as I could see a sliver of light peering through the gap. Were the micarta scales slightly deformed? NOPE, it's because the tang is ever so slightly bent, but of course, you can't torque down the scales to compensate for this, not with the ultra soft bushings they include.. This is nit picking and doesn't hurt its function, but bears mention when a company is hyped to be HQ all the way, and then has this reflected in its rather high prices. - My two Izulas are not exact duplicates of each other, with one pointier in its geometry while the other one has a a more abrupt upward sweep and more belly. It is miniscule, but my eye caught it and it causes one to rattle slightly in its sheath, while the other fits like a glove. This is not restricted to the pair of Izulas, as the same thing is present in my Esee 4s. The version with a clip point is flawless, as one should expect, while the other has that more pronounced and abrupt upward sweep and belly. In addition, it is ⅛" shorter than the other. Who worked the grinding wheel here, Helen Keller on a Monday morning? The above probably make my Esees sound like a box of cheap trash, but most of these differences are very subtle and only bear mention because of the flawless rep Esee has. Furthermore, my Ontario Rat and RD series of fixed blades boast the symmetry, fit and consistency Esee lacks, although not the smoothness and polish of the micarta and the indestructible Esee coatings. Nit picking aside, they're kinda/sorta worth the asking price if you've got the money because of the steel, the way it fits in your hand without hot spots, the outstanding hard sheaths and they're just robust tools that you needn't worry about failing if you're say, Les Stroud and up shits creek for a week. YMMV.. just food for thought, but I'd probably suggest to a friend that they go with an Ontario Rat if they can tolerate the shitty black nylon sheaths that come with them (except the Rat 3.. it's a duplicate for the Esee 3 and either fits in either snugly) Thus concludes my Esee rant.👍

Both Mora and Hultafors are good bushcraft knives to start with! For a more expensive and better knife I would look at the Enzo Trapper O1, Fallkniven F1, Bark River gunny, Bark River Aurora or a more expensive Mora. All are great great knives in my opinion. If you like bigger knives you should take a look at the Bark river bravo 1, bravo 1.5 or the Fallkniven S1 or A1 but all these are more survival type knives.

thanks a lot. Dark timbers ar so beautiful

all of them. It's not the esee 4 but the 1095 steel they use and the way they heat treat it

+Wartstein I never had the chance to test another one sadly. Esee hardens their knives up to 55-57 hrc which is really soft for a small blade. It makes the knife bend instead of break but reduces the edge retention a lot. A trade-off I'm not willing to make. But as you say you can misuse it quite a lot without problems haha

Thanks a lot for your reply! Not to many youtubers having over 100 k subscribers still do so... / Yes, ESEE Knifes have quite a soft steel, but as far as I realize quite average hardness for 1095 steel knifes? The edge angel is very bad for cutting in any case. Still I think your ESEE 4 might have been an unusually bad heat treated one maybe. I am far from beeing an ESEE-Fanboy, but I feel they are quite average in the range of 1095 knives. WAY too expensive for the steel though! Maybe you can test another ESEE some day, would be interesting. Maybe even the Laser strike which I own, it´s a lot better (or less bad ;-) than the 4 concerning Ergos. Best finger choil I ever experienced, and I normally really DO NOT like finger choils. Greetings from Salzburg / Austria, keep up the good work, I hardly ever miss a vid you post.

thanks a lot mate !

thanks David! you are very welcome!

Jesse Schmidt This is the Bark River Modus Operandi. Hahaha ;) BRKT are great knives, though it’s a shame they must be re-sharpened to get rid of the factory edges so they will actually hold a good edge. Once this is done there should be no problems. I’ve got 6 and this has been the case with all of them.

Esees heat treatment just isn't my taste. I don't understand why they would make 1095 so soft. The biggest of Esees could benefit from the extra toughness the low HRC gives but generally I would always get some other brand myself

Sweet! Thank-you for the reply, I definitely wont get Esee knives then. You guys are awesome btw. Keep it up

I would be careful believing the opinions of one guy. Lots of rave reviews on Esse products and this guy chimes in with his minority opinion. Be careful what you believe from a guy that says he dulled his knife feathersticking.

In Principe ben je er met een klein mes en een bijltje. Als je een bijltje meeneemt en van plan dit voortaan te doen kan je wellicht het geld van het 2e mes bij het eerste voegen en wat meer spenderen aan één mes of wellicht andere gear. Persoonlijk vind ik ESEE in Nederland te duur voor wat je krijgt. In Amerika is dat natuurlijk een ander verhaal omdat daar geen importkosten e.d. aanvast zitten die bij de kostprijs komen. De Fallkniven F1 is goedkoper, oogt misschien wat minder stoer maar maakt gebruik van een stuk beter staal (VG-10), roest niet en is oerdegelijk. Verder zou ik nog kijken naar een silky pocketboy 170. Een dergelijk zaagje maakt het leven echt een stuk makkelijker. Hoop dat je hier wat mee kan!

Dank voor je snelle antwoord. Het heeft mij aan het denken en onderzoeken gezet. Voor wat de bijl betreft ben ik er wel uit; het wordt de Hultafors Classic Jachtbijl. Voor wat de messen betreft is het bos alleen maar dichter geworden. Fallkniven F1, Esee 3 Mil, allen dezelfde prijsklasse maar welke kies ik? En qua prijs zit de SP5 een stuk lager. En ja hij is groot, maar kan hij, mits goed geslepen dezelfde taken als de Fallkniven of de Esee 3? Ik worstel met de juiste keuze. Wat vind jij? En het gaat me niet om stoer, ter zelfverdediging zou ik het eerst naar de bijl grijpen.... .De Silky's ken ik. Ik werk regelmatig met de grote stokzagen en die zagen geweldig door levend hout en goed door dood hout. heb een houten handvat gemaakt voor zo'n groot blad en het werkt zeer goed.

+tillmandamien489 I would definitely pick the 440C one and if you can pick I would go with the uncoated one. 440C doesn't need a coating.

Hey Stephan, I hope so too. I would have loved to have a good experience with this knife but the truth is that I hadn't. I also had to spent money on it before finding out. but who know you might just like it! I was spoiled with many other knives already.

+scottecooke its way too soft. That's why this knife failed.

Thanks a lot. I must say the more recent esees I've seen came much sharper from the factory. Recently they've also added 3d scales for better handle ergonomics. I think the esees now are much better than back when I made this review. Only thing now is to change that heat treatment in my opinion. As you say it's not a bushcraft knife. Yet somehow it got popular in the Bushcrafting community. As a tactical knife to stab, pry and must never break this esee is a choice I can definitely understand

+biblical giants this one is hardened to 56hrc which is just too soft for a steel like this. 440c is a decent steel but nothing special. I'm not buying esee again. The 4 costs around 170 euros here. I could get a premium steel for that price.

Dutch Bushcraft Knives I don't blame you bro! That is kind of a lot. And there's all kinds of knife makers to choose from these days!..good video!

Esee is indeed very hyped on the internet. I really wanted to like the knife too but I just couldnt

thanks for sharing! I think a lot of people force themselves to believe it's great because there is such a hype around esee. I think if esee would upgrade their steel they would be able to deliver a very solid and worthy piece of equipment.

I had to look at more than only edge retention in that review. The handle and sheath are fine and I especially liked the sheath. As a lot of people don't really care about steel performance I couldn't weight that as heavy as in my own video. Basically the Esee 4 is an OK knife but the steel choice and hardening is crap. In that review I had to bring the negatives in a not to negative form. I made it about 3-4 years ago. These days I would never even released that review and just send the knife back.

thanks a lot!

BK2 uses 1095 Cro-Van that supposedly rusts slower, holds and edge better and can take a bit more beating. I think back then DBK weren't fans of Esee knifes because they were marketed as "survival" knifes. I would really want a better steel for a survival scenario.

+Sig Rockatansky thanks a lot Sig! 1095 is not a bad steel but at 55hrc like with esee it's just too soft. I own a Bob in 154cm. Overall quality feels much better than esee and the steel was properly heat treated. I would believe their 1095 is much better hardened

Japanese Waterstones. I've tried many different angles on this esee but only the massive 45 degree factory bevel seemed to be strong enough for acceptable retention. For me this angle was to large to comfortably use though.

Dutch Bushcraft Knives that sucks man. 45 isn't much of a working edge

ESEE 4 knives come from the factory with a 20deg grind/bevel. Mine is a work horse. ESEE has the best warranty out there. They want satisfied customers. It’s unconditional. Unless you have tried a replacement or two with the same issues, maybe you need to reconsider your objectivity? Maybe a bad one found its way to you?

yep /\

I wouldn't let the Esse haters turn you from buying one. Research your needs and go from there. I don't believe for a minute that he dulled his knife doing feather sticking. No, they don't have the highest Rockwell ratings around but they are tough knives with a great warranty.

I love Enzo, bark river, fallkniven and mora all in their own way. Enzo has a very bushcrafty feel to it. You can choose which handle you like and there are many steel options. They are also pretty cheap for what they are in my opinion. Only the handle geometry could have been better in my opinion. Thats where bark river kicks in at a higher price range. Also nice steels to choose from, 100+ handle materials and excellent handle geometry on almost all their different knives. Fallkniven has that completely care-free aspect. They are fool proof and can survive 10 years in the mud. The sheaths are simple and effective. They are a no BS brand that delivers quality without all the fancy stuff. Mora is unbeatable in every way if you take price into account. The garberg might be more expensive than we are used to from Mora but for it's price it's still the best in it's pricerange (in my opinion). Mora is also a no BS brand. simple and effective. The Mora bushcraft force is the best price/quality knife on this planet in my opinion. I would say all of these brands are an excellent choice and all have a wide variety of knives to choose from. Even the much cheaper becker bk2 in 1095-crovan did much better in edge retention than this esee. Ofcourse this esee will survive alot of stress testing like batonning trough steel and stuff but a crowbar will also survive haha. it's just that the esee gets dull from looking at it.

where do you guys buy the bark river knives?

We used to buy them from virtuovice but later we got some from DLTtrading as well. If I would get another one I would buy one from knivesandtools. It cost more but I wont have the hassle with custom declerations and high shipping.

thanks Howard! Sadly the factory bevel they put on is unusable because if the gi-normous angle.

Yes it is a shame but they must be effective in North America because they have a cult following there, I really want to try some Steel Will knives thanks Martian

There a lot of people don't think for themselves. They spent money on the item, the internet says it's good so all the bad things are invisible to them. Why else would everyone else say it's good? It's good to hear people that dare to share their own bad experience! thanks a lot!

You are out to lunch

@Ministry of Mystics that is comical

@Ministry of Mystics after this vid I bought ESEE. I have no answer as to why his experience was like this vid but, mine was not.

@Ministry of Mystics or maybe he had an unlucky one?

@@michaelstjohn6086 I attribute his issues to operator error. Some people just don't know how to deal with carbon steel knives. I live in Florida and I've used all manner of carbon steel knives. I've never seen one turn into a pile of rust. They all get sharp, and they cut things. I've had carbon steel knives by Ontario, ESEE, Mora, Ahti, Wood Jewel, Kellam, Cold Steel...you get the idea. You get out in the middle of nowhere and you chip out your super steel knife, you're kind of out of luck. I'd rather rehab a rolled edge than deal with a chipped edge. I like stainless for filet knives and small fixed blades, especially ones squirrelled away for emergency use. To each his own...

SwedishOutdoor I agree with you a 100%. I have several ESEE knives and I love them all the same. I actually have three ESEE 4's. One in stainless steel, and it has performed very well every time. It stays razor sharp and is rust resistant. I use that one for camping in the winter time and fishing all year long. The other two ESEE 4's are 1095 carbon steel and have never rusted with simple maintenance and care. I use on my KEVLAR vest for close combat use. The other one stays on my duty belt for EDC. I do like the ESEE 6 just as well and would consider that one to be a better knife for all the same tasks.

Dude, so you used your knife a full year and it was still sharp? That's some bs right there

+Michele Trekkning Hello Michele, I don't speak italian but I think I know what you mean :P. I have tested the f1 pro a bit this weekend. So far i'm really happy. I will upload a video tomorrow about some batonning and feather sticking with the f1 pro. I can't tell how much better the edge retention is in comparison to vg10 but it held up great so far and I love the new geometry of the F1 pro.

Sorry I was wrong to write Italian ... then the video appearance, good day

thanks a lot! Agreed!

thanks a lot Lee! I appreciate your take on the knife and it's good to hear!