Esse Woodstove Hot Water & Drying System

  Рет қаралды 9,174

Ben Falk

Ben Falk

6 жыл бұрын

A third generation of retrofitting an Esse Ironheart to make lots of domestic hot water. The first approach was to use the standard side stainless steel boiler, outside fire box. Not enough hot water. Second was cutting open the side of the firebox for direct flame contact. Worked a little better but still wanted more. Not wanting to reduce firebox temperatures more than needed we opted for top of stove stainless tubes - 2 of them. On first run this made enough hot water for a long shower in 1 hour with an armload of wood from a 50 gallon tank being 35 degrees. Once warmed up it easily keeps up with two people's daily use - very long showers, dishes, etc. while running stove on 3-4 charges per day max. If run more when outside is below 20F the hot water is excessive, which is a fine problem to have but might want a dump load like a radiator or greenhouse eventually.
Also showing a new version of a drying rack for clothes, herbs, mushrooms, fruit, jerky, etc.

Пікірлер: 38
@wholesystems
@wholesystems 6 жыл бұрын
I notice a lot of systems on KZfaq here with copper coils around stovepipes - and many other approaches which are not easy to maintain. You must be able to clean the soot off the heat exchanging elements often - like 3-7 times a season easily - if you want it to run well. Soot forms fast and is an incredible insulator - might work well right off but if you can't clean it it won't work well after a few months or less. The entire system has to be accessible easily. Also - a few things for folks who are new to this: -must have pressure relief valve(s). placed properly. Use a plumber if you don't know what that means. Don't make a pipe bomb and die. -must be able to thermosiphon well - at least 1:1 rise over run depending on a few other variables. -must take advantage of the highest delta T possible to actually get lots of water hot. Most folks tend to fail in this area. -the higher the fire box temperatures the better the combustion. Reconciling the tension between this and the point immediately above is the art of making a good system - along with other variables such as maintainability, cost of installation, etc. of course. -tank size is important and usually within reason the larger the better.
@kevinolson1102
@kevinolson1102 6 жыл бұрын
Nicely customized! I'll have to track down a copy of you book. Re the cleaning access and soot: if you are getting truly clean combustion, there should be very little in the way of unburned combustibles to condense and collect. Not that the cleaning access issue should be overlooked, but you may want to investigate some form of metered pre-heated secondary air injection to more completely combust the volatiles (I should note here that I'm unfamiliar with the inner workings of the Esse). 3-7 cleanings per heating season sounds like about 2-6 too many, at least for my liking. See the old Richard Hill stick wood boiler design for something that burned very cleanly without sooting up the fire tubes, even when burning ridiculously wet wood, though it required both forced and induced draft to get there. Ideally, by the time the combustion gases reach your water tubes, the only gases present would be N2, CO2 and H2O, though that's likely going to be a hard goal to achieve with the cook stove. What about adding a baffle plate to split the firebox into an upper and lower burn chamber, and injecting the secondary air above the baffle? I think you'd want a sliding blast gate at the rear, so you can open it to let the stack gases rise straight up (following the current path seen in the video) until the stack draws well, then slide the gate shut so that the primary combustion gases are forced to take the long path toward the firebox door and around the end of the baffle, then double back through the upper chamber (where the secondary air is being fed in). Depending on how the baffle plate was supported, the entire plate could probably slide fore and aft to shift whether the draft opening was at the front or rear. Insulate the upper chamber as well as you can on the side walls and top, so as to keep temperatures up. Might be difficult to integrate with the "dogbone" cook top thing, however if you can get the temps up, any soot from the initial stages of the burn should get burned off the water tubes (and the bottom of the cooktop!) if there's much excess secondary air at all. Once you're down to a nice coal bed, the gases could be allowed to pass straight through once again, if desired, and the secondary air feed restricted or shut off completely. Just a thought.
@kevinolson1102
@kevinolson1102 6 жыл бұрын
Hmmm. After looking up the "Installation and Operating Instructions for the ESSE Cookstove" PDF, it appears that the draft opening leaving the firebox is located near the _front_ of the burn chamber. woodstoves.net/documents/cookstoves/US_Esse_Ironheart_Cookstove_Instructions.pdf So, flip my "front" and "back" baffle plate shifting directions in the above. I'd wrongly assumed that the opening was at the rear of the firebox. The ESSE does have some form of "secondary air," but it sounds from the manual as if it's intended to be equally as much an "air wash" to keep the door glass soot free as it is to improve combustion efficiency (see the "Notes on Woodburning" section for the best description). Despite studying the cutaway drawing in Figure 3 and the IPL at the end of the manual, it's not clear to me just how the secondary air is fed to the combustion chamber. I may be a bit obtuse... Ideally, all of the off-gassed heavier volatiles driven off by the heat of primary combustion would first be drafted through the hot coal bed, then fed preheated secondary air in a well-insulated secondary burn chamber (that's effectively what rocket stoves and their ilk do very simply, as do the more complicated "downdrafter" designs). But, that could be difficult to retrofit into the existing ESSE cookstove design without some aggressive modification, hence my suggestion above of adding the baffle plate and air feed as a quick-n-dirty half-measure. If a baffle and secondary air feed helps with the excessive build-up, maybe some of the "extra" space above the existing sloped firebox baffle visible in Figure 3 could be re-purposed to form a better secondary burn chamber. From the amount of build-up you are seeing, I'd guess there is still quite a bit of efficiency to be gained from your ESSE. As I'm sure you know (likely better than I), upping the efficiency implies a smaller woodlot, and less time, space and effort needed to lay in a season's store of wood. And, in really cold weather, it may also be capable of throwing more heat (being careful not to warp anything, of course).
@kevinolson1102
@kevinolson1102 6 жыл бұрын
For those interested, the Richard Hill Stick Wood Furnace DOE report I referenced in passing above, including both construction and operating analysis details, can be found here: stoves.bioenergylists.org/stovesdoc/Hill/stick_wood_furnace.pdf A report on the analysis of the stack gases done independently by researchers at Virginia Tech can be found here: stoves.bioenergylists.org/stovesdoc/Hill/airtight_woodstove.pdf This batch-fired design would be very amenable to burning coppice, prunings, etc., though as presented it does require a source of electrical power to run the forced and induced draft fans. I'm sure the fans could alternatively be set up to run off: low pressure steam generated by the furnace itself; a Stirling cycle engine; or possibly a thermoelectric pile; if one were averse to using mains power or a battery bank. Also, though show as a boiler, the combustion gases could be run into a "bell" masonry mass similar to the newer Russian mass heater designs, fed under a cook top or to a bake oven, etc.
@wholesystems
@wholesystems 5 жыл бұрын
I'll look into this -in theory of course you are correct, have yet to see anything work the way you're describing in practice though. @@kevinolson1102
@wholesystems
@wholesystems 5 жыл бұрын
Indeed more efficiency could be gained i am sure - there's not much secondary combustion in the ease as far as i can tell. @@kevinolson1102
@harryklippton
@harryklippton 6 жыл бұрын
I'm glad you reupped this since I missed it the first time
@bennyhill3642
@bennyhill3642 6 ай бұрын
Very nice stove! Thanks for the Vid😇😁
@StevenKraft
@StevenKraft 6 жыл бұрын
Yes babe! Who makes a full-moon currant, nanking mead? Ben. Dude. In any case, I'm glad to see you got the system working well. It's come a long way since the fall. Excited to see how you guys have set up that space this spring.
@christinewist5934
@christinewist5934 6 жыл бұрын
our friends used a tank on top of their wood stove. they use it to supplement their heat in an old farm house by hooking to a rad system it was plate steel about 2 inches thick
@JeremyAugustus
@JeremyAugustus 6 жыл бұрын
What good timing for me! We were looking at the Ironheart to heat our manufactured home great room and use as winter cooking/baking. I plan on getting the radiator component with the stove but am wondering how easy of a retrofit this system would be vs doing it with the initial install.
@carolewarner101
@carolewarner101 5 жыл бұрын
Ben, a couple of questions/thoughts/ideas. First, have you studied, experimented with rocket stoves? I've seen some systems (videos) that burn with that rocket stove efficiency, that also have cook tops, ovens and water heaters...although I'm not sure I've seen one system that does all three of those. Do you know anything about that?
@ecoseden
@ecoseden 6 жыл бұрын
Love your posts, Ben. I have been heating a 36 x 50ft. pole barn with a big Englander two stage wood stove that has fan forced heater tubes in the firebox. The shop has 16 ft.high walls so I can keep a 30ft. RV inside. Do you think it would it be efficient enough to heat with flue gasses using flex 3/4 copper tubing around and around the 8" flue pipe, instead of in and out of the firebox? I have a high ceiling and almost 12 ft. of single wall metal pipe before going through triple wall into the second floor and then out the 6/12 pitch roof. I figured almost 250 ft. of 3/4" copper around and around the flue pipe with that 12 ft. rise. Flue temps run anywhere from 185 degrees to 240 degrees coming out of the catalyst honeycomb at the top of the stove. I figured on doing my thermo siphon by using an upstairs insulated hot water tank for storage and then cycling through the 5/8" hydronic PEX lines in the six inch concrete slab floor. Slab is insulated from the ground below using 2" blue insulboard, and on the sides there is 2" insulboard perimeter walls. Once the slab is warm I should be able to shut the stove down for nearly a week in winter because of the thermal mass storage in the floor, and boy will that save on the wood splitting!! Peace and Permaculture.....
@wholesystems
@wholesystems 6 жыл бұрын
I'd doubt it - but there's a ton of variables in that equation!
@wholesystems
@wholesystems 6 жыл бұрын
Generally it's hard to get more than 1/4 of the stove/furnaces BTU's out in water.
@DrZazzoo
@DrZazzoo 6 жыл бұрын
Doesn't the Esse have a catalyst right under that burner? That would be how they get so much heat without having to remove the top... hard to find information on them, though. Lowering the box temperature would cause the catalyst to fail prematurely. We have a kitchen queen, not as efficient, but about 1/3 the cost. Also easy to modify because it is all thick gauge plate, weldable. Thanks for showing your thought process, eventually I would like to add this to our stove.
@wholesystems
@wholesystems 6 жыл бұрын
No, it has no catalyst, nor would you want a stove with one. Once had an old Heartwood with a catalyst, what a nightmare.
@my_permaculture
@my_permaculture 6 жыл бұрын
Dear Ben. Planning our BatchRocketMassHeater, where I want to run some water pipes through the bell. Do you have a source for learning about the specifications and especially securiry measures when thermo syphoning water through fire places? Thank you very much for sharing! Moritz
@wholesystems
@wholesystems 6 жыл бұрын
You want to put pressure relief valves in the system at any high points. They work well. But apparently RMH's don't heat much water up well - too short of run times.
@my_permaculture
@my_permaculture 6 жыл бұрын
Ben Falk Dear Ben. What do you mean whith short runs? Are 10 meters stainless pipe coil in a very big maonry bell to little? Also, what are the main things to be aware of when making a thermo syphon? Does one need to be aware of flow rates, is the system airtight? What are min and max pipe length and pipe hight?
@wholesystems
@wholesystems 6 жыл бұрын
That sounds like a ton... by short runs i mean short burn times.
@my_permaculture
@my_permaculture 6 жыл бұрын
Ben Falk aah.. Lol. Yes, a BatchRocketMassHeater runs about 50 minutes, but the mass stays very hot for many hours. Was thinking to bring the heat to the 1st floor water radiant heaters via therno syphon to also have some heat there. For water we are on mediterranean solar.
@michaelcahill414
@michaelcahill414 5 жыл бұрын
In making alterations to the stove, are you worried at all about home insurance claims? For example, if something were to happen and there was fire, even if it wasn't a result of part of the alteration, are you worried about insurance companies denying your claim based on this alteration?
@frodehau
@frodehau 6 жыл бұрын
Interesting, I'm adding floor heating now, and want to partly use wood to heat the water. Do watch out for galvanic corrosion. It's hard to tell in that lighting, but if that union is carbon steel, then that is a definite no no.
@wholesystems
@wholesystems 6 жыл бұрын
Thanks - yeah that can be a big problem. This is all stainless steel and brass.
@kurtschellenberg261
@kurtschellenberg261 6 жыл бұрын
Cut a metal plate, a negative of the dog bone, to fit the top and bring it flush?
@wholesystems
@wholesystems 6 жыл бұрын
Yeah - but that's a some real metal work - it's cast iron - weighs about 50 lbs - and has specific heat concentrating baffles in it - it would cost maybe 500-1000 bucks or more to make as nicely - but a heavy steel plate could work. Other problem i didn't mention which is as bad as the non flush surface is that it's not rectangular. It's a silly shape (well for a reason for cooking on top) but rectangular like on the stanley allows replacing easily with a maple sap evaporating catering pan and other things.
@rawkrentals
@rawkrentals 6 жыл бұрын
Making videos after a half bottle of mead! Haha
@wholesystems
@wholesystems 6 жыл бұрын
Ha. For srsly. Kind of funny when it began playing after i made it the next day.
@rawkrentals
@rawkrentals 6 жыл бұрын
Ben Falk haha. Good for a chuckle, I'm sure. Timely video, we're going to try tapping a few of our trees as well and see what we can get. Sub nano scale though. Haha
@Mary-vf4yr
@Mary-vf4yr 9 ай бұрын
How much is this
@VictorVictor-hq7ui
@VictorVictor-hq7ui 4 ай бұрын
Next time, try doing it sober.
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