The Null Tester

Рет қаралды 81,798

5 жыл бұрын

Some audio enthusiasts believe there may be more to audio fidelity than is currently known, and they insist that signal wires and other audio devices can measure the same yet sound different. This video explains what a null test is and how it works, then uses a custom made Null Tester device to compare RCA wires ranging in price from a few dollars to $700. Rather than measure wires directly, the Null Tester isolates all differences between signals passing through the wires, then lets you assess and hear only that difference.
Comments that are insulting, off-topic, ignorant, combative, or add no value to the conversation, will be deleted.
If you like this video, my Audio Expert book is full of solid audio science with plenty of myth busting:
ethanwiner.com/book.htm
To avoid making this video even longer I didn't talk about why people believe they hear a difference with wires, even when no difference exists. These articles address that:
ethanwiner.com/perception.htm
ethanwiner.com/believe.html
If you already know what a null test is and does, you can skip the explanation and go directly to the live portion of this video where the wires are compared at 18 minutes 23 seconds.
It's difficult to have a technical discussion in KZfaq comments, so for questions or extended comments, please post in the Audio Central section of my Audio Expert forum:
the-audio-expert.freeforums.net/
If a wire vendor (or anyone else ) would like me to test their wires using this device, I'll be glad to do that and make a private video of the process for a very reasonable fee. Contact me through my web site: ethanwiner.com/
This article in audioXpress magazine explains more about the tester's design, and includes the schematic for the core section of the tester:
www.audioxpress.com/article/y...
Items mentioned in this video:
The AES “Damn Lies” video explains how audio devices are spec’d and measured:
• AES Damn Lies Workshop
The AES “Audio Myths” video dispels many common myths about audio and hearing:
• Audio Myths Workshop
“Phil Cramer, The Movie” video:
• Phil Cramer: The Movie
Vincent Burel’s freeware signal generator (Windows PCs):
vincent.burel.free.fr/download...
Parametric equalizer (and spectrum analyzer) article with schematics:
ethanwiner.com/spectrum.html
Mojo Maestro article with schematic:
www.audioxpress.com/article/y...
LabNation USB Oscilloscope:
www.lab-nation.com/
www.audioxpress.com/article/u...
Harmonic Tech “Magic Link One” RCA wire ($700.00):
hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11...
Expert electronics consultant Julia Truchsess:
www.pragmaticdesigns.com

Пікірлер: 1 100

@CraftAero 5 жыл бұрын

Directional cables ? Pshaaw! I reverse my cables monthly just to purge any electrons that may be stuck, ya know, before they can clot.

@tonykara 4 жыл бұрын

hahaha, good one

@MrSchuetzendorf 4 жыл бұрын

If they all run in one direction for a long time, one day they will fall out of the cable. Switching the direction helps.

@CraftAero 4 жыл бұрын

@Hank Hill Tell you what.

@zackschindler8334 3 жыл бұрын

And be sure to burn them in too. As if low current would change the structure of the wire.

@ShopperPlug 3 жыл бұрын

lol

@WirebenderAudio 5 жыл бұрын

Well done, Ethan. I'm a firm believer in ABX results, but it is nice to have test equipment proof, too. Audiophiles, audio "professionals," and musicians desperately want to imagine their ears are golden, but ABX tests consistently prove otherwise.

@johncooper6246 2 жыл бұрын

Applied years ago for a technical position at a prominent Toronto audio speaker company. Interview was solid. Went through large vetting and finally the last interview. Didn't realize at first but they really wanted someone to SELL (very expensive) audio signal cable. Not only did I not believe a $100 three foot cable was a better conductor but had zero desire to be a company flim flam man. My interest was grounded in engineering, design and testing. Showing my interviewer the newspaper ad asked if that position was still available and given a flat out, no. Expressing my disappointment was led to the nearest airlock. If they believed I wasted their time they surely hadn't viewed it from my side. Thanks for sharing, Ethan Winer and confirming what I had suspected all along.

@EthanWiner 2 жыл бұрын

Nice post, thanks John. I couldn't sell overpriced BS wires either, no matter how much the job paid.

@hunternico4810 3 жыл бұрын

This cracks me up. I was starting to get into an argument with some audiophiles in a forum about their $700 cables that supposedly add lows and mids and highs but also warmth and depth and dimension, but I just decided to come here instead.

@nosurname9652 2 жыл бұрын

Sparkles on highs, warm on mids, darkness on base with new cable for 500$ 😂... when someone operates with things impossible to measure/hear meanwhile trying to sell piece of copper 50 times more expensive of it's price.... do anyone really need clarification that only thing he want to f...k buyer. Like wayfaring salesmen in the middle ages selling cures from all illnesses to uneducated peasants. Placebo in it's purest form.

@joej78 5 жыл бұрын

Doing this with DACs would be exceptionally interesting.

@EthanWiner 5 жыл бұрын

A few years ago I compared converters a more conventional way, article and video link here: ethanwiner.com/converters.html

@maxrockbin 5 жыл бұрын

you might enjoy this blog: archimago.blogspot.com/ Lots of interesting things about measuring audio equipment - and DACs in particular.

@Audfile 5 жыл бұрын

Most people buy DACs with their eyes

@humanbass 3 жыл бұрын

Audiosciencereview is here to help

@vicdmise 2 жыл бұрын

@@EthanWiner Great article snippet, but if you did some more vids that would be GREAT. Can you PLEASE tear apart converters, clocks, cables, and all the other bullshit "c" words that audio superstitions talk up? Maybe even some OTHER alphabet terms.

@neocollective 5 жыл бұрын

Are you saying that I should have sent my daughter to college instead of spending that money in audiophool wires ?...LOL. Thank you so much sir for the enormous effort of putting this together, you are the real deal and most valuable audio community member; proudly wear your exclusion from those snobbish forums like a badge of honor !

@MarkishMr 5 жыл бұрын

Awesome work! You aren't the hero we deserve but definitely the hero we need! In your next test could you please test a rusty, dirty coat hanger vs some crazy expensive cable? I know it's silly but as an example it could drive more attention on social media to your fantastic work. It might also be interesting to find some familiar conductive material different enough that would create some incredibly negligible difference. That might address any physics deniers who claim the Null Tester never shows a difference.

@KC4RAE 5 жыл бұрын

I've heard stories, some from friends, that have been cast out of Facebook groups and discussion forums for debunking common audiophile myths such as you have with your Null Tester. A long time ago, one of my FTOs said, "If you're aren't making someone angry, you're not doing your job right". Considering that I make a lot of people angry, I *must* be doing something right, even if they aren't aware of it.

@VintiqueSound 5 жыл бұрын

Great video Ethan! I'm going give the most charitable scenario to any audiophile reading this comment and assume that there is indeed a difference between these wires. What Ethan has shown in this demonstration is that the "difference" would have to be at a level of less than -110dB. In other words, the difference would be quieter than the total added distortion and noise from the high quality audio components used in his Null Tester. My Antelope Zen Studio preamps have a THD + N level of -108dB, so if I were to record the signal of any of those cables, the "difference" would be 2dB quieter than the total harmonic distortion + noise added by the preamps of a $2500 interface. Not to mention, the A/D converters have a -105dB rating, and then the D/A converter has a -98dB rating, and my speakers have an even worse rating (preamps and converters have a much better THD rating than speakers do). If there was a difference in audio quality between the $700 cable and the $3 cable, the difference would be so buried under the 4 stages of added THD + Noise that no human could ever hear the difference. To sum things up... you're paying for $697 worth of bullshit.

@poserwanabe 5 жыл бұрын

Love it 😆😆😆😆

@pierre-emmanuellelievre3015 5 жыл бұрын

@9:35 he says that the difference need to be at least -80 dB, not -110. I find this number low to prove a "no difference", it's smaller than the human ear dynamic range, at least to some with greater audition

@EthanWiner 5 жыл бұрын

@@pierre-emmanuellelievre3015 This article lets you hear artifacts at various levels to learn for yourself what you can and can't hear: ethanwiner.com/audibility.html I'll add that my Null Tester actually proves the wires are identical to below -130 dB. In the second half of the Audibility article, you'll see that people can hear when content is present 20 dB below the noise floor. And when my Null Test is set for the deepest null, no music at all can be heard. So that means the null is actually 130 dB down, not "merely" 110 dB.

@sharonmahart6783 5 жыл бұрын

Sadly, you're wrong, Vintique, and so is Ethan. He's only measuring the electrical properties of cable while insisting on the all-important step of not actually listening to them to hear for yourself. How, exactly, can you learn for yourself if you can hear differences if you don't actually listen? Ethan wants you to believe your ears will deceive you. If you hear differences, they're not real. They can't be. Because HE says so. I'm not sure about you, but I love music far too much to let an angry old man close my mind like this. Why would you? If you've already decided cables are a ripoff, that's fine. But please don't say they are until you've actually listened for yourself.

@EthanWiner 5 жыл бұрын

@@sharonmahart6783 You clearly didn't watch the video. Or if you did, you failed to understand it. The differences aren't real because my tester *proves* they're not real. Not because I say so. So the next step is to learn why your ears deceive you. Further when you resort to insults (angry old man) you already lost the argument. But I will give you this, I always thought most women were too smart to fall for audiophile bullshit. Apparently I was wrong about that. :->)

@gregzakaluk6278 5 жыл бұрын

Hi Ethan, im retired semiconductor engineer audio and instrument madman since the 70s. hold patents in both areas as well as brain neurotransmitter trigger thru induced wave applcation.. yes i mean audio and unheard freqs. im glad you stand your ground and paul is a hack to the profession. you cant convince all the population with science they will always use weird words to describe things that dont physically exist to fool their brain. i deal with electron doping,crystel structure, atomic makeup of things daily and the biggest laugh is the wire/interconnect think and tube tricks. my dad was in same field and worked on atom bomb,microwave dev,Apollo program etc so its inherited in me. Anyway i degress and thank you for your stand and reason. Greg the Mad scientist

@EthanWiner 5 жыл бұрын

Excellent, thanks Greg.

@samuelhansen157 5 жыл бұрын

You sir are a gem to this community.

@eatdrinkwineguy 5 жыл бұрын

@ I will continue to listen to Paul as I like the varied topics of discussion and I am always happy to hear various opinions/input etc. I don't necessarily think he is being nefarious. I think he truly believes most if not all of what he says. At the same time he uses that channel as a very clever brand building exercise so something to always remember.

@sharonmahart6783 5 жыл бұрын

@@eatdrinkwineguy does it bother you that Ethan doesn't want you to actually listen for differences in cables? Your ears will deceive you, after all, so you can't trust them to make up your own mind. He's conclusively saying that because his test equipment is measuring an electrical null (inaudible variance) that you don't even need to bother doing your own research. In other words, don't think (or listen) for yourself. He's got this! I can't think of a single person in this world I trust enough to let them make up my mind for me, much less to then compel me to parrot their irrefutable conclusion to others (as though I've independently reached it on my own). That's just crazy, but for those who already feel (whatever objectionable product) is a ripoff, Ethan fills the all-important role of providing a pseudo-authoritative confirmation of that untested bias.

@csabesz78 5 жыл бұрын

@@sharonmahart6783 The point here is that you don't have to spend thousand dollars to high-end cables and you can skip cable listening tests in the rest of your life and you can educate yourself in room acoustics or speaker equalization or anything else which is more important.

@sharonmahart6783 5 жыл бұрын

@@csabesz78 Actually, the point continues to be that you can all stop telling people what to do. Why does it even matter what other people spend money on? Do you have a car payment? Do you trade cars before they're completely worn out? If so, you're a damn fool, and the money (you) throw away pales in comparison to the cost of a decent pair of upgraded interconnect/speaker and power cables. You listen the way you want to, and I'll listen the way I want to. Just because you're unable to discern differences in audio cables doesn't mean that others cannot. It's not just electrical measurements, but please keep telling yourself it is. I just feel bad for all the mouth-breathers who believe you without experiencing for themselves. They're the real victims, here.

@csabesz78 5 жыл бұрын

@@sharonmahart6783 Sorry, I don't want to ruin your game. Do your "research" and never doubt the correctness of your method. I see some people want to stay in the dark forever.

@zorst99 5 жыл бұрын

I have played with this stuff for many years and used to sell gear, The only difference I've ever heard was less noise to worry about with XLR cable, but the sound always has sounded the same to me. I go to CES most years and have heard some good gear sound great. They are always supplied the most expensive stuff from other vendors. But I would love to step in with some cheap wires as things are sounding amazing and see if the quality of sound dropped. Thanks for this demo.

@Arcsecant 5 жыл бұрын

This is an excellent presentation, but the null tester can't measure the most important attribute of the wire: the price.

@elektriceye Жыл бұрын

Isn't that what your eyes are for?

@scipanda4969 5 жыл бұрын

I love you man. My home theater sounds amazing because of you and did not cost $10,000 to fill with gear. Keep making videos man, you rock!!!!!!!!

@gregoryschramuk4271 5 жыл бұрын

Dude, you have my subscription to your channel and more importantly my attention. You have saved me money and meaningless arguments with sales pitches form business men at hi fi stores. Thank you!

@guidorhaschke 5 жыл бұрын

Sent this to my son, an up-and-coming recording engineer, he's really going to enjoy this! Thanks Ethan

@SynthTweakscom 5 жыл бұрын

Looking forward to watching this over the weekend Ethan. I know you and I share the same understanding on this topic.

@kevinmccormick419 5 жыл бұрын

Etan, thanks for sharing your tests. I have performed several blind listening tests listening of different cables and speaker wires. I agree that if cables and wires are high quality and the (speaker wire) gauge is sufficient, there is NO audible difference between them. You can buy a great set of 6' patch cords for ten bucks.

@amplifierexperts1983 5 жыл бұрын

Nice work debunking a persistent myth. Under normal listening conditions with normal commercial recordings and music, all of these residuals fall way below audibility. Even the highest dynamic range Classical recordings will not approach the limits of cheap cable. For example, at a recent concert recording with the GBSO, I measured the noise floor of the empty hall at 43dB, unweighted. When the orchestra performed, the highest recorded peak was 105dB. That is a dynamic range of 62dB. Pop and rock music have far less than that, often less than 10dB of dynamic range. The one exception to this was a fireworks recording I made in 2010. It had a dynamic range slightly in excess of 86dB between the crickets in the woods and the loudest mortar explosions. On this recording, I noticed 60Hz buzz with my "free" included cables that came with the BD player. I replaced all the small signal wires with $5 Monoprice cables, which have nearly 100% shield coverage, and that removed the 60Hz buzz. But this is a sound that would normally be masked by the ambient noise of a concert hall with a commercial 'high dynamic range' Classical CD. It is an extreme example and playing the fireworks recording required careful gain staging of all amplification equipment to maximize signal to noise ratio of the system.

@vain8687 5 жыл бұрын

This is why 90 db (16 bit) is more than enough resolution for digital audio.

@basspig 5 жыл бұрын

@@vain8687 And a good DAC, because a lousy one sounds gritty down in the very low numbers. I had to replace my Sony BD player with an Oppo because the background sound down in the noise floor was gritty and distorted on the Sony. The Oppo was able to do a much better job and the sound was close to the 24-bit master, just with a bit of hiss added.

@dumbpublichater9365 5 жыл бұрын

they say it eliminates the need for dither therefore the audio is more of quality compared to 16ít noise

@ianjohnhorwood2605 5 жыл бұрын

What he is saying is bullshit. His hearing must of gone to shit with his age. His equipment is crap because he cannot hear and tell a difference. All equipment sounds different, and all cables have a cause and affect on the sound, and equipment. All equipment is not made equal, or wired the same, or is able to to retrieve the detail that is say for instance on a cd. There is more information for example, on a cd than most people realise and know. Not all sound equipment like amplifiers can retrieve all that information from the source, likewise not all source equipment can retrieve all that information of the cd source. Then there is a lot of loudspeakers that cannot retrieve all that detailed information from the source, and amplification. Cable wise for example, and for instance, depending on your equipment and your amplifier's internal wiring of its loudspeaker terrminals for instance, a 1.5mm or a 2.5mm single solid core cable will always be better for clarity, timing, and dynamics, and solidity. The nordost blue heaven rev 2 cable is also good at this. If your equipment is good enough to convey even these basics aspects of the music, never mind all the intricate and delicate details of information that comes within the music itself if recorded, like all the related harmonics, from bass, midrange and treble, then reverb and decay. The differences in the types of cable and their thicknesses has as much of an affect on the sound as it does that is used in the equipment, and loudspeakers themselves. Trust your own hearing, and your own judgement of what you hear coming from a piece of wire, or pieces of audio and loudspeakers systems. Also, The longer all your wired connections are, including your speaker cables, and how many components you have in your chain of your sound system. From your source, the preamp, the power amp, it will degrade the effect on its sound quality, its detail retrieval, and the damping quality of the loudspeaker drive units, from its amplifiers and sources. The least components that can be used in a system and the shorter the connections the better.

@mcnyregrus 4 жыл бұрын

An audio legend, who unfortunately recently passed away, spent years looking for commercially released recordings with the highest possible dynamic range, and the highest he found was also a classical recording with a dynamic range of 85 dB. I think it was a Beethoven work. I might be able to find the name of the exact recording if you like. So a CD would still have enough dynamic range for this recording. Recording at 24 bit, however, makes sense to me as you could then play it safe. But for delivery, 16 bit is enough.

@Wourghk 5 жыл бұрын

Thank you for making is video, very informative. Unfortunate that it had to be made at all.

@turntablesrock 5 жыл бұрын

Thank you, Ethan, for making such a well thought out product and explaining it so well! Also, thank you for putting in what I keep saying (and I'm sure others do too) about phono cable (and also unbalanced mic capsule connections, but who uses THOSE?) capacitance needs. I look forward to using this video in more facebook audio discussions. -David M

@cbcdesign001 5 жыл бұрын

According to Paul McGowan at PS Audio the differences displayed between cables is because those differences are not electrical. Give me strength! I get so sick of the BS that persists in the high end audio world with regards to cables, it is intellectual dishonesty for profit.

@straineddig4511 5 жыл бұрын

I heard Mr. WIner, in this video, state he used "high-quality" "wire" to make his interconnects 18:02. So, who, exactly, is bullshitting here about wire quality?

@scottlowell493 5 жыл бұрын

@@straineddig4511 There is such a thing as high quality. The crap you get from generic companies often have poor construction. They are either poorly shielded or poorly wound. He's not talking about audio foo foo boutique cables.

@TheAgeOfAnalog 5 жыл бұрын

exactly@@scottlowell493

@sharonmahart6783 5 жыл бұрын

@@scottlowell493 what exactly is an "audio foo foo boutique cable," and have you ever actually listened to one? Any of you? Music is such a pleasurable experience, it's too bad guys like Ethan are closing so many (frail) minds.

@esotericaudiophile3884 5 жыл бұрын

@@sharonmahart6783 Correct Sharon! I don't get it!

@rafalobo5308 5 жыл бұрын

Thanks so much for going this length to show everyone how gullible some audio enthusiast are, wonderful job sir.

@TexasScout 5 жыл бұрын

Thank you for confirming what 55 years of listening has taught me. Keep this “no bull shit” zone up! The old saw “you are entitled to your own OPINIONS, not your own FACTS” comes to mind.

@stevenswall 5 жыл бұрын

Sorry you got banned, Ethan! I had to remove myself from some of them... Too much spam and bullshit claims that people don't want resolved because they are zealously devoted to being right, and their emotional and financial investment won't let them see that.

@geoffwoodwogga 5 жыл бұрын

I did a (single)blind experiment with Monster and several other 'esoteric' brand interconnects at -10dBV Line level, compared to unscreened coathanger wire. I could not percieve a difference, even wrt noise level. At phono cartridge level there was noise pickup which would have masked any wire effect.

@DuanePortal 5 жыл бұрын

Thank you Ethan for all the hard work you did on this.. I learned a lot,

@r44heliflyer 5 жыл бұрын

Great video Ethan, and also coming from a career in electronics & audio I fully support your conclusions.

@Davethreshold 5 жыл бұрын

THEN there is the ABX comparator for people who criticize this fine Gentleman for not listening. With the ABX testing, NOBODY has ever heard the difference between two cables. My only criticism, is Ethan, you should move the stuff that will attract hum away from the computer stuff that interferes with the null, or causes the hum. People: Loudspeaker/Room interface is about 93% of the sound! Generally speaking, if you have bookoo bucks to spend, the more money you spend on speaks and room acoustics, the better your final result. THANK YOU Ethan Winer!! The trouble is the hard-core Golden ears will still not be convinced. For the late, great Tom Nousaine!! :-)

@EthanWiner 5 жыл бұрын

It wasn't feasible to move my setup away from the computer where the 'scope is attached. But in hindsight, it's probably better like that anyway. This way I was able to show that when the wires were adjacent the hum canceled, then it came back when the wires were separated. That proved in real time that the Null Tester is doing what it's supposed to.

@Davethreshold 5 жыл бұрын

@@EthanWiner Oh, o.k.! :-)

@nvtechnick8795 5 жыл бұрын

At last someone with common sense Thank you Mr. Ethan W.

@operationstayalive 5 жыл бұрын

Ethan you are a champion of real sound analysis. Thanks for sharing your expertise and so eloquently explaining the details to us mortals.

@kevinkilpatrick7510 5 жыл бұрын

Ethan you've made the internet so much cooler!! Thank you. I've just reached the 3:00 point in your video where you explain the concept of the null test. Brings to mind a couple tests I did a few months ago.... maybe someone here has any experience or ideas to chime in and is feeling caffeinated enough to read this.... I wanted to test some claims/possibilities/unknowns about (1) the effect or lack-thereof of re-importing and re-bouncing audio files into (and out of) DAWs and (2) the difference or lack thereof between (a) bouncing a multitrack session down to 2-track BEFORE sending the 2-buss to outboard processing versus (b) sending a CPU-heavy, large multitrack session directly out to outboard via a DAW 2-buss. (I'm sure the 2nd issue could have many subsets relating to delay compensation, "hi resolution plug in processing" settings and things of that sort. I simply did the test with my own usual Ableton settings) For issue (1), I'd had an engineer and studio owner who does quite a lot of very good work telling me that I shouldn't import a stereo master into Ableton to adjust the fade out. He said that re-importing and re-bouncing the file with a DAW would degrade the audio quality, and thus I needed to ask and wait for my mastering engineer to do this directly from his session. So, I did it anyway: I imported the master into Ableton, adjusted the fade, and bounced it out. Then I imported this adjusted master and the original master into parallel tracks in Ableton and flipped the phase on one. ie. subtracting one audio signal from the other. Alas, absolute 0 residual signal until the adjusted fade out at the end of the song. Conclusion: reimporting and rebouncing from the DAW--at least with the Ableton Live as I have it set up, has ZERO effect on the sound of an audio file. It's not like cloning a clone and having a degradation every time; it's the same exact set of 1's and 0's that makeup both files... or perhaps it's two different sets of 1's and 0's but they create the same exact soundwave, sort of like how an algebra equation can be expressed in many configurations. For issue (2) I've read articles claiming superior mix results by printing groups and reducing multitrack processing in stages before the final mixdown. (And if my memory is correct, I have indeed come across some issues of automation lagging (for instance, an automation point having its effect an entire eighth-note or more later than its visual location in the session) and plugin artifacts in CPU-heavy sessions which were resolved by printing back or individually bouncing tracks and adjusting buffer rates. But what I wanted to test was whether there was some fundamental difference between "printing 2-buss outboard from multitrack session" versus "printing 2-buss outboard from bounced stereo"). And what really got me to do this test was a client specifically requesting that I print mixes from a bounced stereo file, on the notion that it provided a superior sound over printing from a multitrack session. So, I did both. And then I again imported both files into parallel tracks in Ableton and flipped the phase on one. Alas, absolute silence. Conclusion: barring any sort of processing overload that causes artifacts or lags during listening and printing, there is no difference between the sound of a multitrack session and the sound of a stereo-rendered multitrack session with Ableton Live (version 9)

@EthanWiner 5 жыл бұрын

Kevin, you get an A+ for your effort and conclusions. One important conclusion is just because a "mastering" engineer believes some BS or other doesn't make it so. The other (main point) is that you successfully used a null test to prove your hypothesis. People believe *all sorts* of nonsense, including people who should know better like famous mix engineers, most audio magazine writers, and even some recording school teachers. When you get a chance, find the two AES Workshop videos here on my KZfaq channel. Tons of audio education with much myth busting.

@EthanWiner 5 жыл бұрын

This is another KZfaq video that everyone who cares about audio needs to see. This is not mine, but I post the link often in audio forums to refute misinformation about digital audio basics: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/ma-BbKyJuLvepYE.html

@kevinkilpatrick7510 4 жыл бұрын

@@EthanWiner Much thanks for replying! And your input on this! Glad to that line of reasoning / process confirmed there on those tests. I definitely will watch those AES workshop vids. Your videos on the RealTraps site are a treasure trove.

@kevinkilpatrick7510 4 жыл бұрын

@@EthanWiner I think a youtube algorithm may have erased the link. I would love to check it out... can you list the title of the video perhaps?

@EthanWiner 4 жыл бұрын

@@kevinkilpatrick7510 I linked only to Monty Montgomery's video "D/A and A/D | Digital Show and Tell," and said you can find my two AES videos on my KZfaq channel here. Here are those links, and let me know if they still don't show for you: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/eL-En7Fn3NDHpoU.html kzfaq.info/get/bejne/kNyZpciml7mrioE.html

@hx3r1 5 жыл бұрын

Is it just me or is the intro music to this video extremely catchy and pleasing hehehe,i love it. :) Thanks for great educational videos! :)

@jitterfree250 5 жыл бұрын

You are the man, Ethan. I fell for that BS a few times. Sold all the wires so I didn't have to face my ignominy on a daily basis. Go pro!

@allydea 4 жыл бұрын

I wish your content could reach more people. Thank you for the explanation and demonstrations!

@jasonmartin8467 5 жыл бұрын

Great Test Ethan ! thanks for doing this, I can just get the cheapo mic cable stuff instead of my usual mogami lines

@Mrch33ky 5 жыл бұрын

Great video Ethan! I had posed a question about hearing differences in wire on a LinkedIn audiophile group a few years ago and was kicked out of the group months later because apparently, merely asking the question was considered "trolling." Which was a shame because I thought it was an interesting and civil discussion. C'est la vie.

@EthanWiner 5 жыл бұрын

Right, you can't argue with beliefs. When they have no rational argument, all that's left is anger and censorship.

@SteveBracy 5 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the Solid Science and years of Experience!

@randyb4105 3 жыл бұрын

Your are the most trusted person I have ever read about, as far as wire, and acoustics properties are concerned.Your science makes me doubt my own sanity for for spending thousands on wires for my audio equiptment THANK YOU . PLEASE DON'T RETIRE.

@EthanWiner 3 жыл бұрын

Glad to help!

@BreakingPointbike 4 жыл бұрын

Thank you Mr. Winer for your time and huge effort.

@shawnhayden6674 5 жыл бұрын

You are the best type of audio jerk out there: one that loves the truth. I love your project and results. Thanks for sharing. Get some more extinguishers cause I am certain you will have more flamers.

@skiaddict4937 4 жыл бұрын

So Happy I watched this video. I love my inexpensive BJC cables even more now. I have always wondered how people could pay 5 digits for wire but now am certain Mr. Barnum was correct.

@Enemji 5 жыл бұрын

What are the results of the null tester when comparing the same song through a Tube vs Solid State Amp?

@stumsi 5 жыл бұрын

28:10 , LoL, this is pure gold to my ears, I just saw speaker cables "Ultraline" model by MasterBuilt audio cables which cost 35.000 USD - 2,5 meter BI-WIRE...each additional 0.5 meter cost you another 3.000 USD and couldn't believe my eyes! Recently I was read their technology development how they doing their researches and work on acoustic, sound field, noise signal, electromagnetic wave interaction, bla,bla,bla...but then question was made, 70.000 USD just to connect my speakers with amplifier? Anyway, thank you Ethan for your work and analogue synth of yours looks amazing! Wish you all best!

@EthanWiner 5 жыл бұрын

LOL, yes, you totally get it.

@jeremytravis360 5 жыл бұрын

Sanity and common sense at last. Thank you Ethan. I spent most of my life in the Hi Fi trade and I came across a lot of people talking BS. PS I like your cat.

@mshioty 5 жыл бұрын

“It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is ... If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong.” ― Richard Feynman

@kacperuminski1547 5 жыл бұрын

Sighted listening doesn't count as a valid experiment if that's what you mean.

@tkjho 5 жыл бұрын

If a "theory" doesn't agree with experiment, it's not a theory, it's just a hypothesis that's been proven wrong.

@antigen4 5 жыл бұрын

only WHEN the experiment is well designed though

@kacperuminski1547 5 жыл бұрын

@@tkjho If you were to actually prove that for example different cable materials, like silver and copper, differ in sound as much as some claim you would effectively prove that conductivity doesn't work like we thought it does. For that you would almost certainly get a Nobel prize in physics. It would be equivalent to proving that the theory of evolution is inaccurate.

@tkjho 5 жыл бұрын

@@kacperuminski1547 Therefore oxygen-free copper improves sound is just an audiophiles' HYPOTHESIS, but if somehow they can prove that it indeed does improve the sound by conducting a valid experiment, then it becomes a THEORY and is no longer just a hypothesis.

@Banksyyt 5 жыл бұрын

Well done Ethan! Thanks for doing this.

@iangibson6015 5 жыл бұрын

My hearing cuts out at around 10 kHz, so I tend not to say too much in audio discussions, but I think you deserve a medal for your work.

@EthanWiner 5 жыл бұрын

Thanks, and I can assure you that it's not necessary hear above 10 KHz to have keen hearing perception. Most content above, say, 8-9 KHz, is supportive but not critical for enjoyment. I'm 70 years old and can just about make it to 13 KHz, yet I think my recent pop music mixes are the best I've ever done. A lot of famous mixing and mastering engineers are as old as me or nearly so!

@iangibson6015 5 жыл бұрын

@@EthanWiner That's encouraging to know and I did manage (eventually) to detect a tweeter problem on one of my speakers - which led to a new pair of much cheaper speakers that I like a lot better. Although the old ones were about 23 years old. Thanks for the your insight, it helps.

@theHeartlessNooB 4 жыл бұрын

Ethan FTW! You saved me from Audioquest!

@malteschrader6790 4 жыл бұрын

Brilliant! Thank you so much for making this clear and putting all the effort into it! Loved it. A lot!!!

@EthanWiner 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks Malte.

@Grayback1973 5 жыл бұрын

ABsolutely awesome video....last 3 minutes were priceless! Thank you sir:)

@scooby0000 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you very much for this video. Well done ! I know for many years, that a $5.00 wire is not different for audio, than a $10k wire, but with you explanation it is been proofed !

@lookfantasy 5 жыл бұрын

Ethan, good job, thank you.

@mactrek69 5 жыл бұрын

excellent man!. About of those audiophiles groups, always remember you can`t NEVER win a battle against the stupid

@zackschindler8334 3 жыл бұрын

If expensive cables with magical properties are so important for good sound at home then wouldn't recording studios need some kind of special cables also? Yet when you look at online stores that sell recoding equipment you don't find much crap like that.

@TH-nf1eo 5 жыл бұрын

Thank you for a clear presentation that anyone can understand.

@kevingest5452 4 жыл бұрын

You pointed out several points that there was EMI induced noise when the cables in certain locations. I do think it is rational to pay a little bit more for shielded cables, particularly in phono pre-amp cables where that electromagnetic interference will have been amplified thousands of times by the time it gets to a speeker cable. I also use shielded RCA cables for line level signals just to be prudent, but I don't kid myself in thinking I actually hear a difference.

@EthanWiner 4 жыл бұрын

Yes, of course, shielded wire is standard for audio. But it doesn't have to cost more than a few pennies per foot!

@PierreAubert7pi 5 жыл бұрын

+1 even my esteemed colleagues buy expensive cables and they all are engineers. They buy for status but they believe it is for sound quality, that's sad.

@mixplacetube 5 жыл бұрын

wich wire company are those 2 dislike?

@jasontorres2417 4 жыл бұрын

FINALLY! My favorite song! Great stuff, Ethan. Thank you for your work.

@nicoras8803 5 жыл бұрын

I like your practical approach Ethan.

@Neuromancer23 5 жыл бұрын

Could you maybe test a coathanger compared to a speaker cable? I'm wondering because of the research that was done in a blind listening test between the two, and the participants with trained hearing couldn't tell the difference

@evoltap 5 жыл бұрын

Emiel Bijl that was testing speaker wire though, wasn’t it?

@Neuromancer23 5 жыл бұрын

@@evoltap Yes, but the test would remain the same right?

@evoltap 5 жыл бұрын

Emiel Bijl I’m not knowledgeable enough to really know, but I do know speaker wire has much more juice going through it, so does not require shielding and probably has different requirements. Ethan could probably could mod the box to test speaker wire.

@MichaelGraves3304 5 жыл бұрын

No. The principle is the same. The only change would be the allow physical connection.

@evoltap 5 жыл бұрын

Michael Graves so I’m assuming that his driver box is sending somewhere in the neighborhood of -10 dB or +4 dB line level, or 1.23 volts ac over the cables. Speaker cables are normally seeing 100 watts at 4 ohms driven through them, wouldn’t that require a different driver/amp and some sort of dummy load to accurately simulate what a speaker wire does?

@BwanaJesuasifiwe 5 жыл бұрын

the Problem with the world is the people who know the truth have so many doubts, and the people who lie are the loudest.

@TheGroovySideOftheTube 5 жыл бұрын

Thanks Ethan, what a fantastic effort!

@mylivetubetv Жыл бұрын

You rule and I am glad you are here!!! I love the way you tell it as it is! Thank you for your time and sharing this.

@EthanWiner Жыл бұрын

Thanks!

@corystansbury 5 жыл бұрын

Tremendous. I've always railed against the cable industry based on engineering principles, but this is a wonderful demonstration/experiment.

@StanleyGurvich 5 жыл бұрын

Pure Gold

@watchnerd 5 жыл бұрын

I would love to see you try this test with tonearm cables hooked up to phono cartridges because, as you note, MM carts are sensitive to capacitance differences. Of course, you can also measure that with an LCR meter, but it would be fun to hear how it sounds.

@dedyvideo 4 жыл бұрын

Love this video, I alway buy $8-$12 wires but thinking I might get better sound if I pay more for wires, now I don't have to, thanks , Great job.

@RussCottier 5 жыл бұрын

Great work buddy. But you know they won’t believe you. Logic and science go out the window.

@juststuff5216 5 жыл бұрын

*Ethan really should be up there with some of the great names in audio,* but unfortunately we live in an age were post counts, who shouts the loudest, and the size of people's pocket books seem to rule. The line i use is; "Acoustics doesn't care about people opinions, money or post counts!" Maybe I should bold as to add ... "... and neither does Ethan Winer!" onto that :)

@sharonmahart6783 5 жыл бұрын

But Ethan shouldn't be listed with great names in "audio" based on this video. If anything, list him with great names in "test equipment". Because that's all he's done. He's measured electrical signals and told you the minute variances exist outside the audible spectrum. Okay, fine. Do we listen with our eyes? I don't. But he also tells you NOT to listen, that the measurements are indisputable proof, because your ears will deceive you, and that's the big, fat red flag, here. You can't tell people all cables sound the same, then tell people who hear differences they're being "tricked". What color is the REPLY button on your page? Mine is purple, so yours is purple, because I said so! Don't try to tell me yours is blue, because your eyes are deceiving you. See how that works? Same gig, here. If you don't want to spend money on cables, or if you don't want to do your own listening, that's fine. But Ethan is wrong, and he's not a great name in audio because of this video.

@poserwanabe 5 жыл бұрын

uugh…..you didn't watch the video did you ?

@blackie502 5 жыл бұрын

@@sharonmahart6783 maybe you should be listed in the GREAT NAMES IN BIG MOUTH BRATS WHO SIT AND TELL EVERYONE HOW WRONG THEY ARE YET OFFER ZERO PROOF TO BACK THEMSELVES OR THEIR "TEAM" UP !!!!!!!! fn loser, 15 people you've attacked here, go back to mom n dads wallets

@tk421tt 5 жыл бұрын

Very good video Ethan. Amazing work.

@kaitaochen8101 4 жыл бұрын

Finally i got to see this video and thank god i didn't spent much on wires. Thank you Ethan!

@charlesludwig9173 5 жыл бұрын

This science is making me rethink who I trust advising me about audio.

@karlty7989 4 жыл бұрын

The process of this test is wrong. He needs a mic in between the speakers to do a null test properly.

@StewartMarkley 4 жыл бұрын

@@karlty7989 There is only one speaker playing, its the mono null signal.

@arvidien5533 5 жыл бұрын

Cables, any cables are purely passive "components" and can only act as filters since they are hooked up in series. Unless you have a badly flawed design, simple tests such as Nathan's will tell all. Remember Bob Carver's amplifier chalenge?

@carmenandthedevil2804 5 жыл бұрын

Which didnt work! You said it. Cables can act like filters. Across the frequency spectrum.

@carmenandthedevil2804 5 жыл бұрын

@LD Blake Seeing you bought this up. I remember A-Bing an expensive S-video cable against an everyday component cable. 4 people checked out the difference and each thought the Svideo was better. Hmmm. A/B'd audio cables for thirty years with a money back guarantee. 95% of people never brought them back and got their money back. Quite a few were not idiots as people on KZfaq seem to assume too often. Love the way these so called experts are always trying to discredit people that think cables make a difference. All I can say is, if you can't here a difference or change sometimes, then good luck to you. You save your hard earned bucks. Bad luck you can't here a difference.

@carmenandthedevil2804 5 жыл бұрын

@LD Blake Your comparing a microphone to your ears and brain efficency / accuracy. Mate, who invented your microphone? A man with a brain. And over the years mikes have become better and better because of peoples brains. Which are different in each head. Do we all look the same, smell the same, eat the same etc etc? Get the blinkers off please. "Ohh, this guy comes up with a test that in and under his conditions, works" Great. I won't think again because he has proven that I don't need too. Please! Ohh, I have been in the audio industry for close to 40 years and also a service manager with over 100 repairs in the system at a time. So what.

@carmenandthedevil2804 5 жыл бұрын

@LD Blake Get some old monster powerline 2 speaker cable and compare it to any other. Then maybe you will here a difference. Then, self taught denial may intervene.

@carmenandthedevil2804 5 жыл бұрын

@LD Blake I didnt mention Powerline 2 to put in your system. Just A/B it against what you have. If you can't hear the mid bass boom in the cable then enjoy your system mate, the way it is. You miss out,I don't.

@howardleopold9887 2 жыл бұрын

Ethan, I’m a retired electronics engineer and a long time audio enthusiast. I’ve never believed in the claims made for exotic cables. I’ve even used lowly romex as in-wall speaker wire with great results. I loved your presentation! I don’t suppose you’ll get any offers to publish your conclusions in any high-end audio magazines anytime soon.

@EthanWiner 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Howard. Audiophile magazines might not like what I have to say, but I've given two workshops for the AES, videos linked below, and have written many articles for real magazines. :->) kzfaq.info/get/bejne/eL-En7Fn3NDHpoU.html kzfaq.info/get/bejne/kNyZpciml7mrioE.html ethanwiner.com/articles.html

@RobertR3750 5 ай бұрын

Great video. Several days ago, I questioned the superiority of 24/192 audio over 16/44 on the AVS Forum. The amount of vitriol directed at me was remarkable. Rather than addressing the technical difference, one poster took me to task for upsetting people.

@EthanWiner 5 ай бұрын

Tell me about it! I get the same. They know they can't refute the facts of audio, so all that's left is to complain about something else.

@rrho170 5 жыл бұрын

Oh and the audiophile grade fuses.

@triumphadelic 5 жыл бұрын

Great video Ethan. Having been in many London 24 track recording studios in early 90's , one in particular The Townhouse I noticed they were using 2 core normal electrical (for lamps etc) wire cable on their Yamaha NS10 nearfield monitors from the Quad 405 mk2 amps in the control room . I knew then that audiophile cables was ....bullshit.

@nordic2112 5 жыл бұрын

Great work Sir! Very informative.

@HansLaros 4 жыл бұрын

Loving this method and the video. Well done! Greetings from The Netherlands, Hans

@saifkechrid9375 5 жыл бұрын

Excellent :))

@jasonhats 5 жыл бұрын

great work, Ethan

@leo.girardi 4 жыл бұрын

Just ordered your book. This video reminded me of my EE Electromagnetics class at Univ of Colorado in the mid '80's. My prof (Carl Johnk ) was asked about Monster Cable, and his dry humor overflowed at that time. Ever since then I laugh at cable snobs.

@lescarpenter162 4 жыл бұрын

Ethan, can you run the null test not with music but a slow frequency ramp from say 20Hz to 20kHz and see if the null test goes awry at a particular frequency range?

@EthanWiner 4 жыл бұрын

I did play sweeps (not in the video) and no frequencies popped out. If that were the case it would surely show up with music. It's not like a circuit could pass only 546 Hz but no other frequencies.

@stephencampbell9384 5 жыл бұрын

You should have told the audio groups the device was to prove just how much better high bullshit coefficient cables are............trolled it up a treat :D

@GodsMistake 5 жыл бұрын

Any video with a cat gets a thumbs up from me.

@audiowanderer 5 жыл бұрын

Great and educative video. Good to see among your gear a humble Yamaha QY-20... love those QY tiny machines

@EthanWiner 5 жыл бұрын

Thanks. I haven't used the QY-20 in a long time, but it's a cool piece. I bought it originally in part because it supports General MIDI. It was the first GM module I had, that's how old it is. And it still works!

@audiowanderer 5 жыл бұрын

@@EthanWiner I have a couple of old QY and they are certainly very tough machines

@Satchmoeddie 5 жыл бұрын

Lots of love and respect for your work, sir!

@Satchmoeddie 5 жыл бұрын

I use Mogami inside my audio amps, including guitar, bass guitar, pedal steel, keyboard, PAs and other specialty amps. I also use it in SOME instrumentation amps, such as phase angle comparisons for mass flow sensors.

@frostsimonsen 5 жыл бұрын

This just confirm what my ears has been telling me all along..countless well controlled listening tests over and over again and again though the years. The difference if any at all is so small that you cant hear it.. ;-). People buy into the "mojo" and piss away their money :-D.. All fine with me

@carmenandthedevil2804 5 жыл бұрын

You must be deaf. Fine with me.

@frostsimonsen 5 жыл бұрын

@@carmenandthedevil2804 :-D... Have a nice day and mary X-mas to you and yours.. I can feel your hurt...All my very best.

@KillKissios 5 жыл бұрын

@@frostsimonsen Where's the scientific proof that you can feel his hurt mister? It seems that you buy into the "mojo" too.

@frostsimonsen 5 жыл бұрын

@@KillKissios Your are such a Troll.. Keep moving ;-)... Have a nice day sir´

@sharonmahart6783 5 жыл бұрын

@@carmenandthedevil2804 I've never seen so many weak-minded people; willing to rely on the conclusions of a YT video without doing any actual listening for themselves. Stunning. And somewhat disheartening. Music can be so much fun. Maybe those who claim all cables "sound" the same (without even listening to them -- which Ethan conveniently insists you DON'T do) don't suffer from poor hearing... but a closed mind, instead?

@andydelle4509 5 жыл бұрын

Thank you Ethan. Very well explained. But I should tell you that as of today PS Audio is trying to discredit the null test. Of course Paul offers a straw man argument and no data what so ever to back it up.

@DjPhaseFour 5 жыл бұрын

I love all forms of mythbusting but audio mythbusting doubly so. I grew up around high end audio and audiophiles of all shapes and sizes, and while it gave me an appreciation of sound it gave me a deep loathing for the superstitions that go along with it. Hifi USB cables, green CD markers, 10,000 dollar speaker cables I've had to endure it all so thank you very much for putting some of it to bed.

@nintendoeats 5 жыл бұрын

This was a fun video, and I haven't seen one from you in ages so it sort of made my weekend. However, I would still send people your other videos if I wanted to give them a sense of why most of the audio industry is snake oil. You repeatedly state that nulling would reveal any difference, but I feel like it would be helpful to sit down and lay out the logic. If your audience agrees that sound is nothing more than changes in air pressure, then you can easily show that measuring and subtracting either those levels or their electrical representation is enough to reveal any sort of difference. The only way out of that would be to either deny that sound is changes in air pressure, or to deny mathematics. As it is, I think the unconverted could easily see the claim "nulling reveals all" as a commandment from on high rather than a fact which can be verified to any reasonable standard of knowledge. That said, the nulling machine looks like a very fun toy and I'm glad to see another audio myths video from you. Thanks!

@EthanWiner 5 жыл бұрын

I do explain the logic of null testing - I spend the first 2/3 of the video on that. But some people will never be convinced, no matter how compelling the logic. So they can waste their money on BS wires, and the rest of us can be smarter than that.

@CarlosAnglada 5 жыл бұрын

"Signal flow arrows..." LMAO!!! SMH...

@marklowe7431 5 жыл бұрын

Considering we're dealing with AC signals i'm not how that would work.............

@marklowe7431 5 жыл бұрын

@Strange Faction This is standard practice for balanced cables. The gnd being connected at both end is required. Not only is it a mediocre gnd shield but it carries signal. I don't see how it can work disconnected at one end unless I'm missing something magic. I'd love to get one of these to pull apart. edit, found the explanation. They run a separate shield and gnd is connected at one as you explained. The thing that needs explaining here is that the negative component of the AC audio signal is common with gnd anyway. This sounds like the polishing a turd theory. If you want better emf immunity run balanced and it still doesn't cost a $1000 a cable to have a separate braid. What's hilarious is that microwave RF cable which is a billion times more critical than anything audio and in the most extreme situations will never cost close to what some interconnects cost. Their performance is more than multiples better.

@marklowe7431 5 жыл бұрын

@Strange Faction That makes sense. What I don't get yet is how this cable can work at all. It either has the separate shield common with ground allowing the signal to work or it's separate in which it can't work. With balanced it's normal to ground at one end as std practice and yes it avoids loops.

@marklowe7431 5 жыл бұрын

@Strange Faction unless you modify all your source and targets the ground is common with unbalanced. It's ironic this topic comes up as I'm designing a pwr amp wth both and gnd is gnd which is gnd

@marklowe7431 5 жыл бұрын

@Strange Faction That brings back memories. My first amp as a teenager was a Marantz. It was a great amp. Marantz actually make a few extremely good amps. Not cheap but also not unjustified cost. The amp and dsp units i'm building at the moment are for home theatre. The point I was making about that is if you see a schematic all the un/bal and bal gnds are all ties together. It's common. Unless I'm missing some voodoo magic the directional cable for unbalanced std rca interconnects sounds like total b/s. You only have to get a decent cable, sure keep it short and not run it next to mains ac and it will be fine. XLR bal really only makes sens like you said over distance. Even then most bal cable capacitance effects only take effect after a serious distance and chopping off audio at 100KHz is of no concern. I put to anyone that no power, speaker, interconnect, hdmi or Ethernet cable should cost more than 10's of dollars to reach a level of quality that can not be detected by human ear. I even saw a gold plated fiber (spdif) cable connector........... This is just plain nuts.

@TheDazlermac 5 жыл бұрын

Brilliant common sense video.

@eatdrinkwineguy 5 жыл бұрын

Brilliant! Thanks. Always suspected but great to know for sure.

@bucktoofus6039 5 жыл бұрын

The snare panned to the left in the intro music already tells me everything I need to know.

@R4roger 5 жыл бұрын

Snake oil covered wire

@tomy2988 5 жыл бұрын

Does he make a Freudian slip at the 18.00 minute mark about the mogami?

@jsdhesmith2011 5 жыл бұрын

tomy2 I was kind of thinking the same thing but then again if he would have said his tester wiring was built using whatever he could source from Craigslist/thrift store etc. etc. then all the audiofools would have targeted that as the cause of in accuracy and would then dismiss the video all together. So it was clearly on purpose he said it that, to keep the fool listening, to prove their bullshit false. That is of course my personal opinion and I could be wrong. Have a nice day.