Had scoring on my 996.2. Rebuilt it myself, very easy. Got new steel liners for cyl 4,5, 6. 3 new pistons and new rings all round. Cost app £3k for parts. Now done 20k miles in year since rebuild. Lot of car for the money.

My favorite Porsche owners get their hands dirty and have more tools in the garage than a set of golf clubs. Awesome videos.

Just discovered your channel last week and have become addicted, I'm a mechanical engineer and I'm so impressed with your knowledge of porche engines and their problems . And on top of that you come across as such a nice guy, keep it up!

Nathan thank you…. Finally somebody telling the truth about these cars.

After owning a Porsche for two years I am completely numb to excessive service costs...

Great video ! My 2005 997 Carerra S now passing 114000 miles (bought the car with 62000 miles on the odo) unopened engine, No issues ! OCI at 5000 miles, i do oil analysis after each OCI and it show allmost no wear metals Silisium and aluminium under 1 PPM, and values have been consistent in my 7 year ownership, even after hard use on track (what is bore scoring???) Upgrades: third radiator, low.temp. thermostat (a must have on these cars) IMS solution, RSS tarmac engine mounts, fabspeed exhaust, 200 cel race cats, autoblip, KW V3 and total powerflex bushing upgrade

My Porsche only mechanic in Fairfax, VA said he has never seen a 98-99 996 with a scoring or D Chunk problem. Your Chanel is great and I appreciate you trying to educate everyone.

Bore scoring can happen , The vast majority of these cars will NOT get bore scoring and there are many high mileage examples out there. The numbers appear to be high due to the large number of cars & suv's made and internet hysteria. I have owned at least 50 cars and motorcycles with Lokasil bores over the years and only 1 dirt bike suffered a failure due to scoring. Yes millions of motorcycles also have Lokasil liners .... Love the channel !!

I have had 9 or so w/c Porsches and have been lucky -always careful to warm up and not lean on them until t&p’s are good. They’ve all been weekenders sat around so not used that much though we all know that’s not necessarily a good thing. The original 3.2 engines had special head gaskets designed to balance the coolant flow temperature this was discarded in later models and cooling is generally agreed to play its part in bore scoring. Of course I may have had scoring and never known! Some early ones certainly produced a oil puff on start up after sitting around .

The engine in my 08 Cayman S Sport had bore scoring. Had it rebuilt starting in Jun '21 - May '22. Cost me $28K when I got done with the rebuild and the "while you're in there's". But I wanted to keep my CSS and you're not facing a lot of good options. This made the most sense for me. Now I have an engine that's addressed all of the Porsche problems plus 75 more HP.

FWIW, I use Lucas fuel additive at 150:1 to lube the upper cylinder believing it will help the rings slip against the bore, think two-stroke effect. I'm not so much a fan of Lucas. It could be MMO, or even a TCW3 2-stroke oil, just something to take the sting away from today's E10 fuel which is not a lubricant. During my 7k miles of ownership I have zero oil burn, zero smoke and no scoring looking through the plug holes. Certainly not conclusive and I will likely never know if it prevents scoring as it is only theory for about a penny per mile.

Thanks for being a realist. Good stuff, great content.

HI. Thanks for a great vid. 2 short comments based on my limited knowledge: (1) I think how the car has been driven does affect the degree of bore scoring. Driving in Granny mode until the oil is upto operating temp mitigates the degree of scoring as the piston and cylinder are better “matched” at this temp. (2) The Turbo engines of the 997 generation do not have bore scoring issues. Great channel! Love what you do!

07 987s with almost 80k miles and no issues whatsoever. No smoke, no oil smell. Car has been flawless so far.

The best most honest on point humbled Porsche video on KZfaq! I want to buy one for a while now…just can’t make up mind due to this issues. Love the 997 C4S manual but I may skip to a 991 C2S instead !?

On that engine bore scorring on the passenger side cylinders would first appear on the roof of the cylinders, that's the high wear side of those cylinders. There's no coating on the cylinders, the coating is on the piston skirts. You can get the engine rebuilt with six steel sleaves and JE pistons for around $15k-17k and you'll have a sweet engine.

One thing you have to remember is that these cars are 20yrs old...most other regular cars have been scrapped by now , you're buying an old car you're going to get issues and bore scoring might just be one of them.

This channel has changed my mind on Porsche ownership. I’m back to looking at Miata’s and Gr86’s, I just want to drive and enjoy, not buy a car lift and 5 grand in tools 😂

I agree that the vast majority of 3.4, 3.6 and 3.8 cars get scoring, but it's not a coating they put on the liners. The liners are made entirely of the Lokasil material, which is aluminium with silicon "infused" into it.

After spending 15K on a rebuild, I sold it for a loss of 16K. Ridiculously expensive car to maintain. So glad I sold it.

Very informative, thanks.

not sure about the percentage but definitely a silent killer. I am dealing with mine and to this date it has no symptom and only the scoping revealed the issue.

I would really like to see some hard numbers to back up a claim of 90%. Maybe qualify that with mileage/time on the engine. Like, "This engine will fail." is true, but.........

I can see more people opting for a full rebuild as these cars get more valuable. They made a ton of 9X7’s, but then again a ton of 9X7’s have nuked themselves over the years as well. As supply dwindles, popularity increases along with value, and people will take care of them more as they do with the air cooled models. 993 owners have had 2, even 3 rebuilds and nobody bats an eye. If anything a rebuild increases the value on those as long as you keep all your receipts and take it to a reputable shop.

Flat6 innovations has a 12 part series on bore scoring…it effects M96 & M97 engines

all the narratives i've heard is that bore scoring was a big problem, but happened rarely. I've heard this from multiple different sources on KZfaq. Why has this been the story if it's not true?

The M96 had a different composition Lokasil sleeve cast into the cylinder case and the piston skirts had a ferrite coating. Due to government regulation the M97 had a less durable coating on the piston skirts and the new Lokasil sleeves destroyed the piston coating and then the sleeves. In some ways the M96 5 chain was better than the M97 3 chain engine.

Thanks for this video! 1. Are the non-“S” 997 engines less susceptible? 2. Would you recommend finding a 996 over a 997? 3. What’s the best way to determine whether a 100k car may have borescoring, short of a borescope analysis? Is it to look for plumes of smoke, oil smell or leaks, or something else (ticking noises)?

I read that the bore scoring is caused by leaking injectors that pool gasoline in the cylinders after shutting off the engine. This rinses away the oil coating so there is no lube immediately on startup and the damage compounds. Replace injectors as regular maintenance. Is this true?

Bore scoring is rare on the 9A1 engine. And it will occur if you commonly get on the throttle when the engine is below blue line. Which is of course true of any engine.....

What do you have against a 986 ? The 986 is a great car.

Per usual with any luxury car, the adage holds true: "If you can't afford to buy it new, you can't afford to own it used". Had an '03 M5 I got with 80k miles on it for $17,000. Cheap to buy. But when ANYTHING broke on it, didn't matter how small, it was $1,000 repair minimum and a 2-3 week wait for parts to show up. The car only cost $17k, but parts cost MSRP and MSRP was a $100k car

The idea that 996s do not have widespread bore scoring issues is simply not true. LOTS of M96s have bore scoring issues, particularly ones that spent any time in northern climates. The reason? People let them idle too long when warming them up and the rich mixture on startup washes away the oil coating on the sides of the cylinder walls. Once that oil coating is washed away, the rings start eating away at the Lokasil coating. Proper warmup is letting the engine run for 30 seconds and then start driving GENTLY and do not get the revs over 3K until the engine is warmed up. As for showing scoring at the tops of the cylinders? That only happens when the scoring has become significant. Scoring ALWAYS starts at the bottoms of the cylinders; that is why you pay for a PPI that runs a scope up into the cylinders from the BOTTOM to check for scoring. Cars that have never been in a cold climate are far less likely to have bore scoring. However, if someone runs an M96 hard without properly warming them up, they will score it even in a warmer climate. The 997.1 series, particularly the 3.8L engines, were more susceptible to scoring. However, they issue was fixed in the 997.2 - they do not have scoring issues. If you are considering buying an M96 from one of the auctions sites like BAT or PCARMARKET and it does not have a bore scoring inspection from the bottom, you are taking a HUGE risk if you buy. Always get a PPI done that includes a bore inspection from the bottom. Will most likely cost you between $700-$900 to get it done, but well worth the spend...cheap insurance. I was looking at buying a 40AE car in CA that had it's engine replaced for IMS failure early in its life, and had spent some of its life up north. Inspection showed bore scoring and as well as about $8k worth of repairs and maintenance needed. Seller would only reduce price by $3K, so I walked. The car showed up at a dealer in outside of SF selling at a huge premium. Whoever bought it was going to be in for a very nasty surprise...even though the prices on 40AE cars have increased a bit, they were going to have $75K in the car once they had the engine rebuilt, which was probably about $30K more than they paid for it. The worst part? The seller sold it to the dealer in near SF KNOWING that the engine was scored.

great video! does bore scoring affect 996.2 as much as 997 cars?

Love both of your channels.

Mine is a 987 2008 2.7 with 90k miles. Runs perfectly. I've not seen a 2.7 that has suffered from scoring thankfully.

Is the 2.7 and 2.9 engine in the 987.1 and 987.2 generations subject to bore scoring too?

The first cylinder bank is on the left, so you have shown us cylinders 4, 5 and 6, right?

Just coming out the other side of resleeving and paying all the money that Nathan talks about, it is all true. Car runs great now though :-)

This guy is on youtube, pretending that his feelings are facts. Happens a lot.

Bore scoring...Bore scoring...Bore scoring...People please share what lubricates are being used in these Porsche engines. It would definitely be some important information to share!

That was very informative! Thanks. I have a 987 Boxster S with a 3.2 liter engine. I'm not sure if it's sensitive to bore scoring but it does sound like it has lifter noise. It doesn't burn oil though. Not sure if I should have it checked for scoring or if there is another explanation for the lifter like noise? I'm afraid to put much money in it until I get this issue settled.

Beware of nein lives on eBay have 1700 miles on one of their rebuilds . Steel sleeves piston slap already.

now How many of the 996 engines have you done? Next it will be something like you used the wrong-colored shop towel.

So basically, porsches are junks. Thanks for this, very enlightening. I feel already trapped but could have been trapped deeper.

Had a 987.1. Don't know for sure about the bore scoring, but it has all the issues you talked about. Laying down alot of soot, car always ran rich, AOS change didn't help. Sold to a dealer rather than private sale. Broke my heart, I loved that car.

I appreciate and love your content but the 90% figure you mention is exaggerated and misleading. Please correct me if I’m wrong.

Scoring starts at the bottom of the cylinder which can only be checked with a bore scope from through the sump with the piston at TDC. Listen to Jake Raby.

my 987 made it to 125k before I sold it, didn't burn anymore oil or smoked then when I bought it at 60k miles. I disagree EVERY 100k 997 987 3.4 3.8 are bore scored. I did UOA every change and nothing. Although I switched oil brands after the first 2 oil changes did show wear. Wear went to nothing with a ZDDP oil.

i am looking at a 718 Cayman, have you had much experience with them?

Their is a reason why German cars where and are only worth less then a tenth of their original value. The people that usually afforded them sold them right after their warranty ran out to buy the newest. And most of the second/third owners deferred the maintenance.

Great video.

90% bore scoring?

You mentioned in the video that there are less expensive shops that can perform resleeving service. Any specific recommendations? I've got a blown m97.21 from 2008 cayman s that will need resleeving.

Only Mezger's engines (Turbo) are bore scoring free, thanks to the Nikasil cylinders plate. Stay away from all the others.

@NathansPorscheWorkshop / anyone. New paranoid 997.1 owner - as I understand it you are saying there is a high chance that many 997.1 in particular will have SOME level of bore scoring, but there are different levels. Thus you may have 'light' bore scoring in which case the car isn't using much oil OR the more serious scenario whereby one or more cylinders could be heavily scored, in which case the car will consume oil at a higher rate (which may or may not be visible from exhaust depending on whether your exhaust is 'catching' the burning oil.) Is this broadly accurate in which case the best sign to look for is high oil consumption? TIA

Does the GT3s and turbos have the same coating? I always heard 996 GT3s had a much superior engine.

Do the turbos also have bore scoring issues?

Anyone have experience with the 981 2.7 or 3.4 s around 2014 years on wards ? Looking at 30k miles but if the engine is a problem I might shop elsewhere 😢

Thank You 🎉

Nathan: I have a bore scored Cayman S. Do you know anyone who can repair the cylinders (other than the expensive "nickies" guys)? There are a few of us who do our own repairs. thanks! John in Oklahoma.

Seems like a lack of maintenance or a design flaw if this happens qon 90% of the cars. I wonder how liable Porsche is since it happens so often.

sounds like a nightmare. dunno if thats worth it to fix and then just to get it again and again

Turbo's and GT3 no issues

Is it true the m97 2.7 is free from any bore scoring?? 07,08 987 2.7

Do the 997.2 cars have the same problem?

Sir, Whilst I and many others certainly appreciate your KZfaq videos and your experiences, I will speak for a lot of us here. Am I missing something? You keep the narration just short of "where to send the cylinders for re-sleeving! " Where? Yes, you did go the the UK and mention some place there, and we all know about L&N here. But please, where else to go here in the States?? Why keep this secret? I keep listening and watching for the secret password or code. Heck, give this machine shop a free plug, whoever it is, and let's go with this! WHO? Thanx!

hey man I saw your video and im interest on a 987 3.4 S and im really afraid of this bore scoring maybe should I pass? Not buy the porsche?

Where are you getting a re sleeve for 2k

Haha yeah we're a special breed. Gonna have "the talk" with my mechanic and shop around for personal loans. Best to be prepared. But we didn't buy these cars as a financial decision :)

996.2 gets bore score not the 996.1 I had both

Where do you take it for less than $2000 for the service?

Hopefully I find a 997 with a bad engine for sale. I want to do a k24 turbo swap. Cheap and easy and RELIABLE with Lots of Power

I know what you need to know , stay away from all of them except from the turbo or gt3 the rest definitely crap themselves over time I’ve had 5 of them , and the all ended up needing an engine rebuilt, and I change the oil every 5000 miles using Mobil one oil , it’s sad porsche can’t make a reliable engine like there old air cooled engine

According to this, just about every 997.1 would have bore scoring. Why, then, do so many owners say they don't have any issues? It can't happen to all of them. How is that explained?

I had a 08 Cayman S showing early bore scoring..It was showing no signs like oil consumption,smoking etc but the mechanic could tell by spark plug carbon buildup on certain cylinders. He suggested I sell it right away which I did or pay $30K for a new engine..The car had 50,000Kms on it. They are nothing more than expensive junk as far as I am concerned especially considering all the problems they have. (bore scoring,IMS failures,lifters and the list goes on)

90% is a pure, uneducated guess, AT BEST. You shouldn’t throw those numbers out, without facts to back it up. Anecdotal evidence is not evidence. Is there a problem with bore scoring? Yes. Is it vastly overstated? Also yes. Some good advice in this video, but some not so good.

if 90% of 997.1's have bore scoring I wonder why there is no class action lawsuit and why they are not basically worthless now.

unless you are wealthy, why would have any supercar after warranty, even little things are expensive !!!

Why does it happen, is it lack of oil pressure? or someone mentioned that too many short journeys ie running too rich and washing the bore or a leaking injector, oil changes, diluted oil etc? If it was a two stroke it would indicate lack of oil/too lean/too hot. If we could figure out what is the main cause it would be great. Has anyone run a good engine on a test bed to simulate normal running?

Hey, I am considering a 996 what makes this engine so expensive to rebuild? I mean it’s head’s pistons a block❓

3L of oil in 9000km in a 2004 996 3.6 X51. 5W40 mixed with 10W60

Wow, the lack of information is the problem. Everybody has an opinion, very few facts. Reality: this type of engine is notorious for multiple failure areas, 7 possible main causes for the kiss of death. Maybe a few more actually. The cylinders failing are just one of them. Here is the history: the first generation of these engines had a regular steel sleeve held in place in the casting mold, and the block would be cast around the sleeves, therefore "grabbing" the 6 sleeves. Problem, steel and aluminium expand at different rates (0.6 factor), so over heat cycles the steel sleeves got loose, and what's next... engine destruction. BTW they were just steel sleeves, no coating, no Nicasil, just regular steel sleeves. Don't get your underwear in a bundle: nothing fancy inside your soon-to-grenade engine. So soon they reverted back to what seemed to work well in the past: Locasil. Think 944 and 928. Aluminium casting with a controlled sand grain size mixed in the pour, producing a single monolithic block with cylinders included. The cylinders are then honed to size with a diamond cutter, then the acid treatment recedes the aluminium between the sand particles, creating a microscopic porous surface made of sand, which the rings and pistons ride on. Locasil means Localized Silica. There is no coating or plating, nada. It rides on sand particles. So this never wears, it's like having a ceramic surface. But it is very vulnerable to heat. So modern engines with higher HP generate more calories, hence vulnerability to heat. WE changed so many engines that my head is still spinning. Class action lawsuits. Value dropping. I have had customers that have had 3 engine replacements. I am the person who changed the first WC Porsche engine in North America. The car was 2 weeks old. And it never stopped after that.

Bore scoring is common on all 996 and 997s non- mezger engines.

£13000 for a rebuild in Ireland

So many people in these comments are upset that a German sports car has high repair/ownership costs. That’s kind of what they’re known for. Fantastic driving experiences, amazing chassis to build to the next level, but insane costs. American sports cars are known for matching or exceeding performance levels at lower cost levels. JDM sports cars are known for reliability and performance but higher cost than American. These are generalities, but these are what most people expect going in. No one buys a Chevrolet and is surprised they have electrical problems or an interior made by Rubbermaid. No one buys a Ford and is surprised when it leaks oil. Buy a Porsche with $ set aside for a proper engine build. If you can barely afford to buy the car, then it’s a risky car to own. If you buy one and have to rebuild the engine, nbd if you already mentally prepared to spend the $, and you won’t be sad with a 4.0L flat 6 screaming at 8000rpm behind you. If you don’t have to rebuild the motor, nbd also, because even stock they are fantastic sports cars to drive.

💯❤️💯❤️💯❤️💯❤️

Thank you to the German powertrain engineers for that less than durable cylinder coating technology. Plainly they tested this coating on the dyno for about 11 minutes before calling it good. Another case of the Germans just screwing their customers.

Hello. I'm new to your channel. May I suggest something? Looking directly at the camera is a very important part of shooting a good video.

Or get a 997.2 and don’t worry about any of it…

Lot of misinformation here. A puff of smoke on cold start does not mean you have scoring. Maintenance interval times, location of the car (cold climates), oil type and driver error definitely play a role. I have clients on original engines over 200k miles with zero scoring.

8:26 👍🏼

Does the bore scoring affect the 997.2 turbo?

90% is a bold claim...

Not if you buy the 2.7

90% 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

"90%"????? LMAO!!! Research says that 5-10% of 997.1 engines are experiencing bore scoring.

Darton sleeves with 2618 or 4032 pistons is the ultimate solution for this looser design

Steel sleeves on a 996 ?

Memo to self: NEVER buy a Porsche. (Good video, though!)