EVH vs Tone Master Pro Rematch #2!

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Күн бұрын

Thanks for watching my video on the latest Fender Tone Master Pro 1.2.56 firmware update. Are the EVH and JCM 800 more accurate now?Let me know your thoughts in the comments below! Cheers!
My original EVH vs Tone Master Pro comparison: • EVH vs Tone Master Pro...
My Tone Master Pro review: • Tone Master Pro! (Does...
Gear used in this video:
- Gibson Les Paul Standard 60s
- Schecter E1 Apocalypse Red Reign
- Fender Tone Master Pro
- EVH 5150III 50W EL34 tube amp
- Marshall SC-20H JCM 800 Studio
- ML Drums by ML Sound Lab
- Cubase 13 Pro
- OwnHammer Impulse Responses
- RedSeven Amplification Amp Central reactive load
This channel is sponsored by:
OwnHammer: www.ownhammer.com/
ML Sound Lab (ML Drums): ml-sound-lab.com/pages/ml-drums
An original song of mine with me on vocals: • My First Song w/Vocals...
Thanks for watching! Please subscribe along with the bell and follow SDS at:
/ sonicdrivestudio
/ sonicdrivestudio_official
Join the official SDS Guitar Gear Forum on Facebook: / sdsguitargearforum
#fendertonemasterpro #evh5150iii #marshalljcm800
Disclaimer: this video is not sponsored but I do get to keep the TMP. As always all thoughts and opinions are 100% my own!
Timecodes:
00:00 The Fender Tone Master Pro Got An Update!
00:32 About My Initial EVH Comparison Video
01:47 My EVH Amp (5150 III EL34 50W) vs Stealth
02:32 Fender's Response To My Video
03:14 EVH Comparison Details
04:18 Real EVH vs Tone Master Pro Model (Same EQ Settings)
05:02 Observations Regarding The Comparison
06:14 Real EVH vs Tone Master Pro Model (Dialed In To Taste)
07:49 Additional Thoughts And Observations
09:11 JCM 800 Comparison Details
10:31 Real Marshall vs Tone Master Pro Model
12:10 Final Thoughts And Observations
Keywords: metallica, sonic drive studio, james hetfield, meshuggah, deftones, rhythm, guitar, amp, tube, modeler, line 6, helix, fractal audio, axe fx, fm3, fm9, hx stomp, tonex, neural dsp, quad cortex, gibson, les paul, custom, standard, esp ltd, phoenix, black metal, deluxe, 1000, ec1000, ec1000t, baritone, prs, mushok, 9-string, 8-string, ibanez, meshuggah m80m, fishman, fluence, seymour duncan, nw44, schecter, hellraiser, e1, apocalypse, ml drums, ml sound lab, grit, meld, cubase, slate digital, steven slate audio, phoenix-7 sc607b, sc608b, adam jones, will adler, tutorial, lesson, tones, settings, new, firmware, free, mesa boogie, marshall, orange, soldano, friedman, peavey, evh, laney, redseven, victory, wangs, lichtlaerm audio, walrus audio, engl, bluguitar, driftwood, hughes kettner, pedal, djent, death, rock, crunch, classic, ola, fluff, blackstar, randall, dsl50, jcm 2000, ds20hr, dsl1000hr, 6505, 6505mh, 1992 original, xxx, satriani, astro 20, slo100, diezel, vh4, vh2, ksr, revv, generator, jvm410h, jvm210h, jvm205, boss, tube screa,er v30, ownhammer, rock-box, essentials, low-tuned, bogren, sc20, sv20, plexi, jubilee, 2525, invective, mini, leviathan, iridium, mercury, preamp, jmp1, dual, triple, mini, rectifier, mk iic+, mkv, kraken, mkii, fireball, 25, 100, powerball ii, savage, special edition, founders edition, slash, 5150, iii, el34, 6l6, single, or15, tiny terror, dual terror, or30, ad30, rockerverb, 50, mkiii, purple, nightmare, archon, mt100, mark tremonti, tubemeister, black spirit, grandmeister, deluxe, toontrack, superior, ez, drummer, ironball, ironheart, ht, clob, venue, jj jr, emg, jb comparison, rig, capture, kemper, profile, free, preset, headrush, amped, digital, analog, hotone, ampero, roland, me90, leptop, daw, kreative devices, desktop, music production, mixing

Пікірлер: 235

@SonicDriveStudio 5 ай бұрын

Thoughts guys?

@radz108 5 ай бұрын

Love your channel and your comparisons of amps. Just wondering if the Tonemaster Pro amps are more tuned to the internal mic cab IRs in the unit and may not interact as well with a universal IR like your own hammer ones. Maybe if you use the internal cab/mic IRs, your equipment settings might not be so different from your real amp. FYI, I know the reason you used the same IRs for both the real and modelled amps was for an apples to apples comparison if possible. Just my 2 cents. Overall, excellent post.

@SonicDriveStudio 5 ай бұрын

@radz108 if that were the case it would be a huge design flaw

@lenschumann1321 5 ай бұрын

Junk

@marksh24 5 ай бұрын

@@radz108 I just read this after posting my comment below but yes, I believe that is something Fender acknowledged and intends to fix at some point. So then gosh, the only solution now would be to run the real amps through the TMP cab for possibly a better comparison.

@billsstudio2528 5 ай бұрын

To be honest my TMP and Fender FR-12 amp are rather disappointing. I updated yesterday to newest 1.2.56. To me, it is tough to get a sound I can be satisfied with and then play the dang thing for hours....too bad. Hopefully they will update further to make it sound more to my liking. I'm trying to like it, but it fails compared to my stereo board with 2 stereo 'real' amps. Also my other Friedman Smallbox head/cab. Even, unfortunately, my Spark amp with its convenience gives my TMP a run for its money. The FR-12 takes some work to get it to sound good IMO. I'll give it a few more months of Firmware updates. Positves: TMP built like a tank and intuitive. FR-12 tone controls and light weight.

@clintn6677 5 ай бұрын

Since Fender owns EVH it seems a bit weird that they wouldn't be able to nail it.

@spyware1100 5 ай бұрын

All depends on the modeling algorhythm. They are amp designers, not programmers. So I doubt they will come as close as say NAM models does for free :D

@jannatinkarlen8702 5 ай бұрын

Everyone know how evh amps work, tube amp are basically almost the same. Programming is a different story

@clintn6677 5 ай бұрын

@jannatinkarlen8702 I get that. I work in IT. Just saying that if anyone should have an accurate model it should be them. Just mind blowing that they would approve it without it being perfect. Imagine Marshall coming out with something digital and they get the Plexi wrong

@clintn6677 5 ай бұрын

@spyware1100 the NAM was the first time I felt blown away with digital and I've owned kemper, QC, Line 6 and now mainly use an FM3. Excited to see where this goes in the next year.

@gannonh 5 ай бұрын

Perhaps this is intentional so as not to cannibalize EVH amp sales.

@BrianVallotton 5 ай бұрын

I own the TMP. I have had it about a month. I never use the high gain tones, but if I did I would be echoing a lot of the comments here. It does seem striking to me that Fender is struggling with some of the high gain tones on these amps. I have heard a lot of people say that there are distinct variances between amps, even of the same kind. So it leads me to wonder if they are using an amp that does sound like the model? I appreciate your demeanor and your style. Great content. God bless and keep on rockin'!

@Hellhammer1980 5 ай бұрын

I am happy I bought the quad cortex, all my favorite amps are in or in the cortex app

@warrioroflight2781 5 ай бұрын

You are not too harsh, Sir. I will stay with my real amps forever 😊. With a power station I can play them all at home or live, and I can record silently as well

@dylanjastle 5 ай бұрын

Based

@JorisGriffioen 5 ай бұрын

Yeah, I'm using a Captor X with my amps and while you guys are messing around with bugged models and all that jazz I'll be riffing, byeeee

@MangoMeoww 5 ай бұрын

"Tube hype"?

@JorisGriffioen 5 ай бұрын

@@MangoMeoww some people get really into different brands/types of tubes. There's definitely a difference (unlike what Glen screams) but it's small and really not worth the money and effort, especially these days.

@Andy_Yates 5 ай бұрын

The high e and b strings are lost on the model compared to the amp when you're strumming at 7:35 . On the first listen I almost thought it was a different guitar part. Reading your community post, I wonder if a fix to the impedance modeling would take off the wet blanket so to speak. Input impedance can certainly impact the overall brightness or darkness of a sound. Will it give us the note clarity and string definition? Not a clue so time will tell

@rickkup 5 ай бұрын

Great Comparison. In a bar gig, the TMP is closer to the real thing than it has to be. But in a session, or on a tour, I can see how the real thing would be a priority.

@davemathauer1486 5 ай бұрын

1st comparison the TMP sounded similar but extremely muffled. 2nd one was a lot closer but the same thing…thanks man

@mkbmkbmkb 5 ай бұрын

Just curious if you've compared re-amping to plugging a guitar straight into the Fender, in case it has something to do with the input gain, impedance, etc.

@nicopoppe4838 5 ай бұрын

althou reamp boxes are not the best always, such a difference would not be the box fault.

@willschut4917 5 ай бұрын

First up, I'm hearing exactly the same thing as you. No argument there. But I'm always wondering how close the modelled version is to the individual amp they actually modelled. Maybe it's really close indeed. For example, does "their" source JCM800 sounds the same as your JCM800? I know they take all sort of measurements and would those measurements read the same when they would measure your amp? I really don't have the answer to that and, as a result of that, not a strong opinion on the matter as such. It's just that I find questions like these incredibly interesting. Another great vid by the way!

@KreativeDevices 5 ай бұрын

Great video as usual Jon, but the tones still aren't as good as they should be for the price IMO.

@RadioBuempliz 3 ай бұрын

I don't own a TMP, but a Fender Mustang GTX where dirty sounds come alive with cranking the amp model volume. But the 5150 there (Metal 2000) has also a master volume on the model to bring it to a level with other presets. Is there only a master volume when selecting a Cab?

@jackbootshamangaming4541 4 ай бұрын

I just noticed you have a GupTECH Mad Honker up there, I was thinking of getting one of those, but I went with their Mad Torch which a GrindR and HM2 instead of the TS+GrindR.

@zakklee2556 5 ай бұрын

what does the spectrum analyzer show?

@vin9976 5 ай бұрын

This is even just a gimped little 20w Studio head Marshall too. These are thin sounding compared to a full iron 2204/2203...and yet still sounded WAY beefier than the tin can modeler here. I'm sure it's even more noticable in person. There is a depth to these amps, that just isn't the gain or crunch

@danvan8789 3 ай бұрын

Nothing matches a real 800

@mhoff7722 5 ай бұрын

This is why I don’t do A/B comparisons of my hx stomp and my real amps lol. The stomp has some good emulations for recording and practicing but for playing live I always go back to the feel of real amps.

@jtu2434 3 ай бұрын

We had a new rhythm guitarist join our band and he was all tube. The old guitar player like me was all helix. I had to go get a real amp to sound even comparable to the new guy live.

@mhoff7722 3 ай бұрын

@@jtu2434 I've tried quite a few times to play live with my HX Stomp. The rhythm tones are adequate at times but playing with another guitar player that is roaring through a tube half stack I would get buried.

@QuickSticks8771 5 ай бұрын

I’m assuming you took into account the resonance control on the next page that the test amp doesn’t have ?? I’ve found that makes a big difference to overall tone

@theriffdjenerator2213 5 ай бұрын

I keep seeing people miss that. Even ola didn't touch it in his latest

@SonicDriveStudio 5 ай бұрын

I didn't miss that

@LucifdeLuther 5 ай бұрын

BTW, Red channel of the Stealth has some differences to the standard variant. Also presence control in 100 W has different taper than in 50 W, so you will need to set presence more than 15:00 on the 100 W version, while 50 W presence will have similar effect at noon. But still there is some problem with Fender amp model.

@algorithm007ify 5 ай бұрын

He did the experiment wrong, given that third party IR functionality still has a bug. He needs to use the TMP inbuilt IRs…and reroute the real Amos’s line out signal via the TMp to compare

@SonicDriveStudio 5 ай бұрын

I'm sorry but I just don't think that makes a lot of sense. That doesn't affect the pick attack and character of the distortion

@ZachariahConnor 2 ай бұрын

Since both models have less gain than the real amps, it makes me think the issue might be in the input circuitry of the Tone Master Pro. If the input impedance is wrong, that can alter the sound of the guitar before it gets to the models

@ThyFinalPain 5 ай бұрын

So you did compare the 6l6 100s to the El34 50. How is that supposed to sound the same?

@gigafuq8751 4 ай бұрын

cause the power tube and wattage doesn't change the sound unless cranked, and even then it's minor

@ThyFinalPain 4 ай бұрын

@@gigafuq8751 No, it's not.

@gigafuq8751 4 ай бұрын

@@ThyFinalPain I've built my own tube amp and I've done the tests myself. at bedroom levels, there's like no difference in power tubes with the same preamp. there WAS a difference in the different brands of 12ax7 preamp tunes, mostly in the V1 slot and when switching between JJs and tung-sol the only real difference between the 50 and 100 is headroom and low-end clarity at high volume. but again, at bedroom levels its negligible

@ThyFinalPain 4 ай бұрын

@@gigafuq8751 He's stating it himself: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/osp-isKgnseqj6c.html

@towerpower 5 ай бұрын

I think it migh be acceptable for a low price/entry level modeler but a device at premium price should deliver premium sounds. I might be wrong, but I get the feeling that entry level device like the ampero II for instance are still offering superior tonality. I would love to see à 1 guitar 53 modelers video !! ahah ok maybe not 53 but it would be interesting for sure to have a 1 guitar, 1 amp model, +-6 different modelers video !!

@scatlizard 4 ай бұрын

What FRFR are you using with the TMP?

@springsgaming7551 5 ай бұрын

Evh definitely sounded darker, Marshall sounded way closer and more workable but was also darker. I wonder if these sounded more real via in the room vs digital via irs. Interesting and their slowly getting there, got a bunch of time to nail it though to be fair, at least there’s updates!

@QuoVadis88 5 ай бұрын

I hear the difference. Real amp bright, snappy. Modelled amp muffled like there is a blanket over the speaker. Like when I played on stage recently and my buddy says, you don't need a Mesa Boogie, here is a Katana, no way as good. When I do a dive bomb on a Mesa Boogie, epic, awesome, on Katana, gutless, flat. Fender, this is your flagship, try harder. I love the TMP, keep it up.

@mcclain63 2 ай бұрын

In the real world, Tube amps will never be replaced with digital sound, In the right hands of a good player and the know how to operate a Modeler can get top notch quality sounds, Bottom line if it sounds good, it is good regardless of what amp they are trying emulate. Enjoy the many options to come up with a sound that makes you happy.

@tomaschren9103 5 ай бұрын

Great video. Just to make sure, were you using any boost in front of that Marshall SC-20H or is it straight in? Because if not it sounds great on its own.

@SonicDriveStudio 5 ай бұрын

Straight in in both cases

@adamstrachn 5 ай бұрын

It's utterly bizarre to me that Fender owns EVH, has amazing R&D, employees and funding and can't get it to sound remotely close. It sounds like a blanket is over everything and rather lifeless. Like a bad Line 6 from when I was a kid. It's very strange since every other tone capture brands nail it pretty spot on, especially after tweaking. Thanks for the video Jon. I hope you are doing well 💯 ✌🏼

@LukeGuitar1207 5 ай бұрын

El34 and 6l6 real amps are way different. Tone master have 6l6 model modelled, also stealth version I believe.

@AsmeginDavid 5 ай бұрын

This!

@misterringer 5 ай бұрын

The Tonemaster just sounds lifeless and undefined. Wonder if they have some type of hidden global EQ or auto-eq on cab models to try and take out fizz, and are taking the life out of it? Also not sure why the gain is so low unless they borked the impedance on the inputs maybe. So far, a swing and a miss from Fender here.

@theriffdjenerator2213 5 ай бұрын

Resonance on back of the amp and yes global eq is available

@4huge4 5 ай бұрын

Don't be so kind :) ,I can't believe this is licensed by evh ,they have to redesign the amp from the beginning ,it's not a modeling amp about 200 dollars it cost more than kemper and quad cortex ,and to be augnest most of us use that amp for higain

@SonicDriveStudio 5 ай бұрын

I just want to remain respectful and objective. I think the results speak for themselves

@austinthebeast33 4 ай бұрын

I’m going to be honest , though I do hear the differences . In a full mix context no one will hear the difference . Sounds close enough and it does sound actually quite good. It’s amazing how far modeling has gotten

@paulbradshawguitar 5 ай бұрын

Hey Jon, admittedly it's a Stealth vs a 50watt El34 , but even with the updates, the model is coming across as i guess bloated in the low mids, and not as tight sounding as the real amp and most of all very dark/muffled sounding and some weird compression going on i'm not sure if some extra EQ on the Tone master pro would help there, having to crank treble/presence to max on the marshall model to get somewhat close doesn't seem right or maybe it's all voiced in mind of amplifying the unit through a power amp/FR cab, which might be quite bright and it's all dark to counteract that might be one to test, through say even a loadbox and the same impulse reponse to see if that would yield different results, or through the same cab with a power amp ,

@SonicDriveStudio 5 ай бұрын

I know, but as I said in my video, the red channels have a very typical signature sound. Most EVH amps sound very similar on the red channel, especially if you dial them in.

@paulbradshawguitar 5 ай бұрын

@@SonicDriveStudio agreed, the signature sound is definitely in there in EVH amps, in any case the Tone Master Pro is unfortunately not really scoring favourably in direct a/b at least from what i'm seeing

@SonicDriveStudio 5 ай бұрын

@paulbradshawguitar I know and I really don't like to be the messenger here. I really wanted the unit to succeed now after this update! Fender is a great company with great people

@jtu2434 3 ай бұрын

@@SonicDriveStudio It isn't fenders fault. We just aren't yet fully there with amp emulation. Even the BEST modelers don't sound as good as the real thing.

@whj812 5 ай бұрын

Please make a pack of tone models of your 5153 stuff for Tonex!! LOL

@jw112mail 5 ай бұрын

I've never heard a modeler I liked but these sound reasonably close for a modeler. I like Fenders UI and form factor. My issue is the latency,.

@gavendelrio9193 5 ай бұрын

Bottom line… it sounds killer to my ears regardless if it accurately emulates the real thing 🤷🏼‍♂️

@marksh24 5 ай бұрын

It's really strange. When the TMP was first released Fender was promoting "only authorized EVH models", whatever that really means. Also they said that the designers or someone connected to the EVH line of amps had play tested and approved these models. Then they come out and say there's a bug in the red channel. So how was it initially approved like that?? And now even like this?? I do wish them the very best with the product and future updates. I think it's a cool device, maybe just not there yet. One thing to add, Jon, I'm sure you're using the same IR with the TMP as you are the real amp? Sorry if I missed that. Didn't Fender also talk about some sort of bug that made the models not sound accurate if using an IR instead of the build in cabs? Something to do with impedance curve I believe. Just wondering if that could be the issue here.

@mikelecabezaguerrero 4 ай бұрын

I have the Headrush prime and the EVH models are awesome, plus there are clones on the cloud even closer to the real thing

@eds4754 5 ай бұрын

seems like the poweramp modelling is odd if both amps need massive amounts of presence to sound correct. they sound like impressions of the amp, kind of OK but definitely a compromise compared to how close other platforms are able to get.

@SonicDriveStudio 5 ай бұрын

Not just the poweramp. Most of the character of the attack and gain structure comes from the preamp

@eds4754 5 ай бұрын

@@SonicDriveStudioyeah obviously differences in the preamps too, which vary amp to amp. Just seems that the power amp modelling across the board makes things sound dark and muffled

@ChannelForty2 5 ай бұрын

It's actually closer than I THOUGHT it would be, its at least better but still not quite there.

@DISSONVNT 3 ай бұрын

I mean, nothing you cant remedy by just a little more tweaking/pedals imo lol personally I kinda enjoy the sound a lot, Ola did an amazing video review of the update and the tone he got by the 17 min mark were pretty much "modern metal" in a nutshell so thats good enough in my book. Would it be better if it were more accurate, yes definitely, especially for the price, but its not enough to make me not want it

@toddegoldberg 5 ай бұрын

Why was the Evh sampled inside a cardboard box?

@ianlahaye9476 5 ай бұрын

Holy, still totally different, Batman!

@linzgilbank1750 5 ай бұрын

The amp modeller sounded muffled, the EL34 sounded nice and open

@jonasirw1 3 ай бұрын

IMO - there's no substitute for how a real tube stack Feels (at volume) both to the touch under your fingers on the guitar and the guttural sonic punch that hits your body. The Feel part of it is indescribable...but I think you all know what I mean

@smeemusic 5 ай бұрын

I’m really loving this whole amp sim revolution thing going on but I’m still having trouble getting better tones with app sims than I can with my real rigs. I can literally just toss up a mic on one of my cabs and randomly position the mic, randomly set the amp and hit record and basically every single time I’m going to be much happier with that recording than anything I can do with an amp sim. And I’ve got some really good sims too. I’ve got some of the ml sound labs stuff. The 800 is their best imo. Although roots is really good too. I’ve tried all of the neaural dsp stuff. It’s okay. There’s just this weird low end haziness that I can’t seem to get rid of. With real amp and cab I have no such thing even there. It’s never even been an issue. With amp sims anything I do sounds more like it was recorded by a garage band. I said all that to say, I’m hearing the exact same thing in the fender tmp vs the real amp. It jus takes away from the top end definition and honestly takes away from the fullness even though there is technically more content in the sound. Idk I’m struggling with digital platforms. I’ve hear hundreds of examples at this point where amp sims and modelers and profilers can sound indistinguishable from a real amp. I just cannot seem to figure it out. And trust, I really want to get this figured out because id love to not have to fire up this big ole guitar rig and route wires and blah blah blah if I don’t have to. But as it stands, I kind of have to.

@SonicDriveStudio 5 ай бұрын

I think both "worlds" are great and they have their place. They can live in harmony and they don't have to replace each other. It's totally understandable why some would prefer one over the other. I love that and I would hate for tube amps to disappear, they have magic!

@smeemusic 5 ай бұрын

@@SonicDriveStudio totally valid perspective there. I agree 100%. I just wish I could come to harmony with the newer tech. It all really seems great. It sounds fantastic when in the hands of the right people. I wanna be a right people. Lolol

@MrStoutfool 5 ай бұрын

I agree 💯 . Both Amps are better here. The Marshall sim isn’t terrible.

@enuxs 4 ай бұрын

Both tube amps have so much more aggression and life in their tones than the amp models.

@elwynsmiles 5 ай бұрын

Ok….so whilst I appreciate that You Tube influencers feel that they have to make these comparison videos, I have a question. How many of us who watch these actually have the original amps to make a comparison with ? Most players who buy these units play at home and never gig, the whole idea being that you can experience lots of tone options without ever needing to buy the real thing. If you’ve never played the real thing yourself, and are never likely to then what’s the point of making comparisons ? The tones in these modelling units are what they are. It doesn’t matter how close they get to the real thing as long as you’re happy with the tone. Modelling has made massive strides over the last few years, but people seem to want to knock it down. Accept it for what it is, enjoy making music and make the most of the great gear that is on offer these days. FYI, I have AxeFx 3, HX Stomp, UAFX amp pedals and use some of the Neural plug in amp suites. I have no real amps to compare with but I’m more than happy with the tones I can achieve. Rock on all you good people out there 🤘🤘

@cmd_f5 5 ай бұрын

The Tone Master is still a little flubby in the lows for the Stealth, too much to be just differences between the EL34 and 6L6. Marshall tones were closer but still not punchy and bright enough. Still, it'll be interesting to see what Fender does with this over time. cheers

@stm113 5 ай бұрын

It’s refreshing for you to be honest about the models lacking. I think (and I understand why) you tend to be too polite in regards to products, especially when they clearly aren’t up to snuff. That being said, and if we are honest, I do not think it’s possible for you to get a bad tone out of anything. I can still never get my Helix to sound half as good as you do.

@SonicDriveStudio 5 ай бұрын

I always aim to be honest in my videos. I love gear and anything that makes tone. I tend to get enthusiastic fast, that's in my nature but when something sounds off I'm not going to lie about it

@markgordoncreamer7279 3 ай бұрын

You have a lousy microphone for that stuff. Boost at 3K that is in itself distorted. I don't know if you can find one but the flat lavaliere mic from Crown would take 160 db before it distorted. I first used it on Robben Ford's "Talk to Your Daughter" recording. Robben was using a very loud Dumble Super Overdrive and the mike was wonderful on it.

@Leemuzhko 5 ай бұрын

Sounds like EVH model doesn't have that impedance curve. Probably you can use the IR with inpedance curve included

@blickfang3751 5 ай бұрын

I like the T shirt!

@djabthrash 5 ай бұрын

06;37 here the tweaked ampsim sounds more like a Recto hehe

@karlmack1313 5 ай бұрын

The EVH-Red isn’t there yet. I compared it to my Steal 100 and noticed less gain, tightness and attack. The knobs also behave weirdly.

@Realroyrogers 4 ай бұрын

I listened to one thru a F-10 and 59 Bassman , I couldn't really find anything wrong with either although the FR does CAB SIMS more accurate

@danc3746 5 ай бұрын

I don't mean to be a wise ass or anything but do we really expect these modelers to accurately sound like the real thing at the same settings?

@jonathantremblay79 5 ай бұрын

The models are missing something still. It's hard to justify the price of a tonemaster pro vs a QC or an FM9 or even an Helix at this point. Sad. I was hoping for something better.

@SonicDriveStudio 5 ай бұрын

Going into this my fingers really were crossed, I wanted this to be better so bad!

@dustylense 5 ай бұрын

the TMP is still less than 6 months old.... All those other units have been out how long and with how many updates?

@MysterBlu 5 ай бұрын

@@dustylense But Fender has been doing amp modeling for the past 20 years.

@dustylense 5 ай бұрын

@@MysterBlu I'll say this. I have a Helix, Kemper, Dream 65 pedal and the TMP. I like the TMP the most. The ease of use and the tones I am getting are just fine.

@MysterBlu 5 ай бұрын

@@dustylense I guess where people have a problem is it should be more than “just fine” for $1699 considering you’re competing with Fractal’s modeling at that price.

@diarrhea_splatter 5 ай бұрын

The Tone Master's models sound a bit muffled. Kinda strange.

@SpaceAceScott 5 ай бұрын

U can’t replace the Magic of tubes! Personally I would add a tubescreamer in front off either of those heads. Like 1982 TS-9 n then u would def have a hot sound w that Les Paul using the JB Pickup. Even w the drive of the pedal at zero, it adds just the rt amount of boost n tone as well as increased sustain….the rest is in your fingers!

@masterofreality230 5 ай бұрын

There is no way they should have released a $1700 product in that state.

@bassgoul 5 ай бұрын

they need to price this unit down significantly... not sure why one would buy this over helix/quad cortex/headrush for similar or much less price. crowded market and this doesn't have the goods for that price

@karlhouseknecht 5 ай бұрын

The real 800 had way more 1-2K mids than the model, which sounded scooped by comparison. Not even close.

@JamesJones-th3ml 5 ай бұрын

Softube really nails all the Marshell amps. I picked that over tonex and Amplitube because of how flat their amps and models sound. Softube is way brighter. Its almost as if there isnt enough input level and seems to be missing some tube warmth on both these models. Th-U by Overloud is very nice as well. They nail each and every amp like its real.

@TrebleMidBass 5 ай бұрын

The hardest thing is to achieve a good algorithm for distortion... Nah I get an amp and attenuation into a dawn interface

@skourthsgiaoyrths9610 5 ай бұрын

the tmp sounds really dull and distant

@AndyNyle 5 ай бұрын

are u sending both through same speaker IRs?

@SonicDriveStudio 5 ай бұрын

Yes

@AndyNyle 5 ай бұрын

@@SonicDriveStudio thank you for quick reply! Strange as it sounds but they are quite close to my ear except that tone master model sounds duller. I do not have the unit and never worked with modelers before but just from a regular amp experience I am wondering if anything can be tweaked via knobs to get a good/desired sound in the mix. Perhaps the controls (i.e. EQs) are not as linearly related as one might think. Motherless pretty dam close though but the actual amp sounds better :)

@Notinserviceij 4 ай бұрын

@AndyNyle I don't know what you consider close but they aren't close at all, that dullness you speak of is not slight at all

@msi1985 5 ай бұрын

So obviously, there is a difference between the two sounds... I am curious what settings could be adjusted on the tone master pro in order to make a better sound. It's not necessarily a perfect match; To my ears, it sounds like some of the volume inputs are potentially set quite high, causing over saturation, which gives a muddy / lack of clarity to the amps sound. There is not only the preset level volume but the amp level volume aside from the amp control in addition to the output dial... And let's not forget the most recent gain stage which was added.... The impulse responses now come with their own volume slider... I find that setting any of these too high results in over saturation and loss of clarity. Have you adjusted any of those volume inputs and experienced the same? Cool comparison overall. I have only got the mesa MkII amplifier for a direct comparison, and it is certainly not the same as irl but very usable with some dialing. Cheers 🍻

@SonicDriveStudio 5 ай бұрын

I appreciate your comments! Please don't take this the wrong way, but I think we shouldn't overthink this. It should be able to sound close without too much effort. It's not a problem for other modelers, why should it be a problem for the TMP?

@msi1985 5 ай бұрын

@SonicDriveStudio Thank you for your response and I actually agree with you. I think the unit itself has some issues with it being over the complicated, I can't necessarily understand why there needs to be 4 gain stages lol 😅

@void_snw 5 ай бұрын

It's like it's choked out. As if there was a suuuper aggressive gate. It's more a gated fuzz sound than a distortion sound.

@patrickaskey1965 4 ай бұрын

I didn't think the TMP nailed either of the 2 amps. Obviously you hear the difference. For the cost, I'll stick with the Tonex pedal. Look at it like this, you can screw a blowup doll, but the real thing is always going to be better !

@dutch2g 5 ай бұрын

I hear a volume drop (or limiting/compression) kicking in on the fender-evh after the first note/hit.

@SonicDriveStudio 5 ай бұрын

Both have been level matched

@kowpow2259 5 ай бұрын

Yeah it sounds like overall less dynamic range and everything is squished a bit on the fender.

@aguitarhero007 5 ай бұрын

The Fender sounds like there’s a blanket over the sound.

@BSPotter 5 ай бұрын

as soon as I hear a modeler that is nearly spot on I will have to consider one, but so far they aren't there.

@SonicDriveStudio 5 ай бұрын

Just curious if you've seen my previous comparison?

@gaddebeli 5 ай бұрын

Helix and AxeFx exist.

@BSPotter 5 ай бұрын

@@SonicDriveStudio not sure, but the only time they sound really close is in a full mix. and that doesn't matter to me.

@mortonstromgal 5 ай бұрын

I dont think the EVH will ever be a great comparison. The Stealth is way more tight (less fuzzy), scooped and bright than my EL34 which is darker and not as tight on just the two 50w heads. Its also really easy to tell the difference between the two at high volume with half gain. Theres a video out there somewhere with Friedman and the guy who designed the EVHs where he talks about why the EL34 is the way it is and the Stealth is the way it is if you dont mind sitting through engineers talking about circuits, its not just the power tubes but other changes as well. Thats not to say Fender got it right either but I know one of the engineers talked a bit about the difficulty of replicating the EVH tone as it changes with increased volume. Hopefully I'll have one soon to test against the amps myself.

@SonicDriveStudio 5 ай бұрын

If the Stealth is supposed to be more tight, that makes this even worse tbh

@mortonstromgal 5 ай бұрын

@@SonicDriveStudio i suspect it will continue to get patches and cant wait to try it myself

@karlhouseknecht 5 ай бұрын

There were more high mids and aggression in the real 5153 amp after you adjusted the model to be closer. It's not bad, but I expect more from a licensed model from the company that built the amp.

@208414 5 ай бұрын

I think the models sound better than they did before, but that doesn't mean that they sound good now. The tones were way off from the reference amps here.

@georgesabitpol 5 ай бұрын

well, the power amps are different aren't they? ( EL34 real EVH and 6L6 on TMP)

@SonicDriveStudio 5 ай бұрын

Yes, but as I mentioned that doesn't matter nearly as much as you might think

@georgesabitpol 5 ай бұрын

@@SonicDriveStudio thanks a lot for clarifying!

@djabthrash 5 ай бұрын

@@SonicDriveStudiomakes a huge difference in tone in the Two Notes stuff at least. Of course you can get them to sound nearly identical by tweaking but when you just switch poweramp tube type, the sound is very different

@SonicDriveStudio 5 ай бұрын

@@djabthrash the Two Notes stuff isn't really accurate with the drastic changes in tone

@manfredworner8528 5 ай бұрын

I been going down this rabbit holes for along time Buying and more buying never truly happy On the tone Trading and selling Now if it’s not exactly the tone but if it’s close enough Iam happy

@SonicDriveStudio 5 ай бұрын

Whatever works for you works! In the end that's all that matters! You definitely should make up your own mind about this stuff, it's very personal!

@zoll96 4 ай бұрын

The stock cabins, better sound than IR !!!

@picksalot1 5 ай бұрын

The TMP generally sounds muffled compared to your Amps. It would be nice to know about how much variation between the same Make and Model is considered acceptable from the Manufacturer. Is it 5%, 20%? I don't know. 🤷

@SonicDriveStudio 5 ай бұрын

Well, if you watch my previous comparison you can hear that even the LBX with EL84s sounds nearly identical to the 50w EL34. So there shouldn't be too much variation

@picksalot1 5 ай бұрын

@@SonicDriveStudio Yes, I watched it. So, would you say a difference 5% should be a reasonable expectation? And, would a bigger difference indicate there might be something wrong or unique with a particular unit?

@SonicDriveStudio 5 ай бұрын

@picksalot1 it depends on the amp and the model etc. I will say though that the EVH amps have a very typical and specific sound. If that "Sonic signature" is missing there definitely is something amiss.

@picksalot1 5 ай бұрын

@@SonicDriveStudio Thanks, I appreciate you sharing your insights and experience, as you've got way more hands-on testing with a much wider variety of gear than I will ever have. 👍

@pCeLobster 5 ай бұрын

You weren't harsh at all. If anything your comments are noticeably less harsh than reality would have warranted.

@quitegenius 5 күн бұрын

Using any modeler vs amp is a different story. In reality, an amp has so much more top end. There's just too much detail lost in digital compression with any modeler.

@joesantangelo1 5 ай бұрын

From being an owner of the 5150iii EL34S, and the 6L6S, they sound waaaay different from each others, and now using the Tone Master Pro, with EVH model. It’s definitely much closer to the 6L6S, it’s still not perfect. But definitely close enough to not use the head live anymore. Great work as always man!

@stringsattached67 4 ай бұрын

That's an EQ setting. ola dialed in a tone on the TMP EVH red channel and it didn't sound like there was a blanket over the speaker.

@drrodopszin 5 ай бұрын

Nope. It's not even there on a phone speaker. I'm glad that they are doing the updates. In engineering, much of the work is done after the first release. However if the sell of units decline, there might not be budget for the improvement. Or they decide to ditch the high gain folks; after all the tone competition for the most brutal sounds is maybe going on for 50+ years: just a guitar and an amp.

@jturquoise 3 ай бұрын

Helix beats tone master easy with high gain The Jcm 800 on helix is awesome !

@jows7595 5 ай бұрын

Jeez Fender, that's embarrassing. You should've gotten this right before you shipped it out. Nobody in testing noticed this? You just get a bunch of people strumming clean tones?

@rendyandrian7149 5 ай бұрын

I agree. After tweaking, Fender sound more open and wider than before. Something bothering me is why you keep saying Fender doesn't sound the same as real amp. I don't think any current amp sim can sound the same as real amp. Why don't you include some 5150 amp sim plugins and compare it with fender. If they are more or less the same, then fender already does a good job because that's how the current modeling technology capable of. Ps: I don't have tonemaster, but I'm wondering how good they are compare do plugin.

@SonicDriveStudio 5 ай бұрын

Have you checked my recent comparisons?

@jeansawiska 5 ай бұрын

Dude, where have you being? Update yourself, almost every modeler out there have a good model of the evh, theres a lot of plugins too

@Ed-ht9np 5 ай бұрын

Modelers are computers. The amps are real amps. It depends on what you’re doing as to if the modeler or the real amp is best fit. No computer is going to sound the same, react the same, or feel the same as the real amp. I don’t understand why people would spend so much money on these modelers and spend hours tinkering with them trying to get them to sound and feel like the real amp. There are benefits to the modeler, especially with it having so many amps and effects to offer. But to me, better tone and response and feel is better than having endless options that sound only decent, not exceptional.

@OnyxSkiesXIX 5 ай бұрын

No offense to the Tone Master Pro or to you trying to dial it in, but the real amps absolutely smoked those models. It wasn't even close.

@jasonhubbard3501 3 ай бұрын

Pretty obvious. 6l6 is the tone master pro. You compared it with a el34 amp. El34 amps always gonna have the British sound & 6l6 American sound.

@jeansawiska 5 ай бұрын

Hard to believe these guys being Fender can't deliver a decent model of the EVH, knowing that ppl like StRock in Ukraine (yes Ukraine, theres a war there) have a modeler that cost 4 times less and the stealth model is pretty much a perfect recreation. I'm so dissapointed lol

@SonicDriveStudio 5 ай бұрын

The Amperium Live sounds pretty amazing!

@ryanfraley7113 5 ай бұрын

This Stealth model isn't nearly as close to the original as the Mercurial is, sadly. You'd think Fender would have the resources and people to get a better model done than Mercurial. That doesn't seem to be the case.

@krone5 5 ай бұрын

British did do a good model, but the evh did not sound crisp when modeled.

@jaredstanfield267 5 ай бұрын

For the epic of the tonemaster, it’s pretty unbelievable how bad these amp models sound. The real amps blew them out of the water. Even when you tried to match them up, is was very clear which was the digital amp and which was the real amp. Quad cortex, helix, fractal, tonex etc all sound much better in that regard imo

@matthewfreeman33 5 ай бұрын

Why do people still spend crazy money on unproven pedals like this when a Fractal FM9 exists and is tried and true?

@QuickSticks8771 5 ай бұрын

Your very fortunate to have QC and fractal be the same price as TMP , in Australia they are over a thousand dollars more expensive

@equalaudio 5 ай бұрын

It's normal that it's not the same sound since they're not the same tube.

@SonicDriveStudio 5 ай бұрын

I'm sorry but that's just not true, not in this case with the powertubes. Very small difference

@blickfang3751 5 ай бұрын

Never was a big "Modelling" fan because, at the end of the day, It's a solid state amp. Jon, you sold me on ENGL.

@LonelyRocker 5 ай бұрын

There's no denying the differences. The fact these are not the "exact" amps is not relevant. If that was truly an argument then the real amps would sound worse. There is far more definition and clarity in the real amp tones...end of discussion....