What's your logic when it comes to Speakers vs amplifiers vs source?

This is officially my favorite hifi channel now.

I’ve been at this for over 25 years. It’s all of it. It really is. One doesn’t clearly stand out for me in all honesty. Every aspect is important. Beyond components there’s the power and cables as well, it’s just all important. But there are two things that are HUGE if you want to really unlock a top quality stereophonic experience and that’s setup and your room. If you’re sitting too far away, or your speakers are pushed against the wall and you have zero room treatment, then you’re basically listening to your room. If someone said to me you have a choice: you can have a treated room and perfect setup with a $2,000 synergized system or you can have a listening room inside a three season room with windows surrounding it, a $30,000 system, you can talk to ghosts through a machine you built and have 2 million followers on you tube, I would take the former all day long.

After restarting my journey, the point you made at the end of this video fully encapsulates my journey up to this point. For me... today... it is ALL about enjoying and being emotional with the music when I am tired. After almost 2 years, I'm still recovering from a significant concussion and after a hard day at work my brain wants syrupy, juicy, meaty with just enough "edge" in the music. Not resolving with medium or hard edges. So that means tubes. They in my pre-amp to feed solid-state amps to drive my power-hungry speakers.

What ppl usually don't understand is that it is absolutely necessary to buy garbage because it is all about your personal journey or development. I can easily setup a super cheap high end system, that's not a problem at all. But the most inexperienced listeners would hate it. A beginner wants a completely different listening experience than someone with 30 years of experience who already had 20 different setups. The problem is not to find the right hifi system, the problem is to figure out what somebody wants and the first few years it is all about glossy and shiny surfaces anyway.

Awesome video sir a great listen for new budding audiophiles but even a better one for those who have been in this game for years but keep chasing their tails. I started when I was 13 and now I'm 63 and I've never heard it stated better well done..

I'm 67 now, I spent over 25 years in the hi-fi and consumer electronics industry. I worked for a high end audio shop in the late 70's before getting into wholesale end of things. I just wanted to tell you that I admire your intelligence, style and wit. What you say and the way that you speak is refreshing. Last year, I started putting together my first new hi-fi system that I've owned in years. I'm approaching it exactly as you have suggested. It's a great hobby. I love music, I've really enjoyed Roon too. I'm streaming everything on TIDAL. Never have missed any other medium. I love owning the entire record store that streaming offers me. Take care. Thanks for what you do.

I was lucky to hear my amplifier and loudspeakers during a demo weekend at a local high-end audio business. There were three integrated amplifiers that were switched around. Due to reasons I bought the speakers first, and the amplifier later. It was, imo of course, the most musical combination. And after several years I still love it. Luxman L-590AXII amplifier and Martin Miles 5 loudspeakers.

Great video and advice to help navigate the hi fi journey 🙏

Came across your channel when you had maybe 10 videos. I liked your dry sense of humor so I instantly subscribed. The quality of your videos have has improved dramatically recently so kudos to you. Back to the subject of this video. I totally agree with you the step 1 is the speaker and amplifier synergy. As a budget minded audiophile I couldn't never get to my nirvana till I got into the DIY aspect of the hobby. That allowed me to tweak my various components I built to eventually achieve synergy and nirvana on a budget as well as DIY room treatments. The final piece of the puzzle was building 300B preamplifier to compliment my DIY First Watt Turbo F5 solid state. I did bite the bullet and bought a pretty nice turntable and cartridge. All in all maybe 500 hrs and around $5000 and now I'm a happy man. Keep up the good work.

You are in the running for hifi video of the year for this one!!

Normally it takes few different videos from a channel for me to subscribe to that channel but this one is so good so easy to understand for anyone at any level at this hobby that I subscribed to this channel about 15 mins in to this video.

Wow! You have a true gift of distilling difficult concepts into easily understandable visuals. This has been a tremendous series so far. I can relate to and totally agree with your conclusions. Can’t wait for part three!

Great video Loic, food for thoughts. And also a good pair of lens on how to interpret hi-fi reviews.

The most important are the sound transducers, ie, speakers and source (TT, DAC, Cartridge, Tonearm, CD player or CD transport, phonostage and Streamer). Next is the Amplifier followed by preamp and lastly cables. But then again, the room and speaker placement maybe the most important! 😆

A great video!!! With great layout of the hobby!

Looking back on 50 + years in this hobby, the most important decision is whether you want to go down the rabbit hole known as 'high fidelity audio'. As soon as you move beyond a table radio... you've begun to go down the rabbit hole. The most important thing to realize about the rabbit hole is, that it is a journey. As you progress on your journey, you'll find that your priorities shift a bit. Bass definition, mid-range 'fluidity', treble 'airiness' all become a given expectation and your focus shifts to the size of the soundstage, the placement of performers within that sound stage, the tonality of the instruments and voices with the 'palpability' of players within the soundstage. After all this time, I've learned that being aware of something is not the same thing as having a deep understanding of it. Only time and experience within the rabbit hole will bring that deep understanding and then only if you're paying attention. Preconceived ideas are an obstacle to understanding but "you have to believe in something or you'll fall for anything". What we believe is what resonates with us and in audio that is what sounds best to our ears. Since we can't listen to all the equipment out there, increasingly true as brick and mortar audio stores disappear, we have little choice but to pay attention to reviewers of equipment whose writing resonates with us. Example; I don't like dissonant music, it grates on my mind. So any equipment that in long term listening sessions the reviewer found to be fatiguing is a big no-no for me. Finally, realize that the reviewer is on their journey as well, what they focus on in their review tells you much about where they are in their journey. We're all "On the Road to Find Out" kzfaq.info/get/bejne/pcmlaruAx962imw.html&ab_channel=Yusuf%2FCatStevens-Topic

Some great advice in there. Everything matters. The source (DAC/Cartridge) makes the signal. I like that to be good. The speakers make the sound. Agree that they must speak to you and be capable of disappearing. The electronics should be a wire with gain. But that is tough. The amp and speakers work as a synergistic pair. One driving and the other reacting and influencing. So your advice to start with the amp speaker pair that you like is a great foundation. Then I think focusing on the DAC/preamp combo until you are either happy or need to upgrade the speaker / amp cluster.

Great discussion. I agree with most of this. The room itself is also key. A $50k system can sound awful in a poor room or poor set up. Also, the synergy between the components is critical as you pointed out by changing gear in and out.

My rule of thumb is "It is only as good as the weakest link". Balance and compatability can not be understated. When you add personal preference it's only advice so don't get upset.

Wow great to listen from you that synergy between speaker and amplifier is important... Now what I experienced in my journey of search of Hi fi realism??? From recording to final output (the speakers) is the whole journey of dynamics which has to be remained unaltered as much as possible and more synergy in between nearby path device....But next to this it's Also more important to maintain travel of air waves unaltered from speakers to our ears as much as possible achievable by rational speaker placement and little room treatment( if required only) Now , why well made/designed tube amplifier and preamp sounds more realistic? Because those creates widest dispersion of image which makes experience more true to natural throw of sound waves as we feel in nature (reference @ ear to brain mechanism and psycho acoustic,Book called"Get better sound"by Jim Smith)

Late comment but this is a fantastic roadmap. Perhaps you will write a book on this for a wider reach

"This is so much fun", I feel touches on the crux of the hobby. Just try and have something fun to listen to is my current determinate for my speaker and component choices. Like you, when I was younger, I favored the product that had the best measurements and most accurate music reproduction I could afford. That changed, I am fortunate enough to be able to attend at least one live music event a week. It dawned on me that the highly resolving system I cobbled together approached but could not really covey the real thing. It was not going to fool anybody into thinking that I had anything going on but playing a recording on my HiFi. So, I did a revamp and chose stuff that I could pour a glass of sherry, kick back, and enjoy until the wee hours of the morning. What I currently own is not considered Ultra Hi-End, it is good sounding stuff, that I simply enjoy the sound of. A few more thoughts: I whole heartedly agree the speakers and amp synergy is a must consideration. I had a friend buy a pair of B&W 801's mated with an 80-watt integrated. His kit sounded anemic. It was not long before he swapped it out for something that has sufficient power. On sources, do not cheap out. I have seen a lot of Blu Ray players doubling as CD players. Unless it is in the same league as an Oppo, things become mushy, indistinguishable. So true, garbage in = garbage out. The last thought is on speakers. I would suggest people, take their time and go through the effort to listen to a lot of different ones with the music they like the most. I listen to a lot of bass heavy stuff, when I played it through a $15K plus audio industry darling. Things sounded castrated. The music had no balls at all. Played it through another make that was cheaper but had true full range response, with enough low-end that could thump me in the chest. Now, I could rock out and have some fun. In speakers be cautions, spending more does not always get you more.

Speakers are number one most important as they transmit the sounds that we hear. Source unit is almost as important as the speakers. And amplifier gives the three dimensional imaging as opposed to two dimensional. I would rate that third. 😊

Hello from Montreal, this is your best video. Great advice. I love the way that you’ve analyzed the thought process of your audio history. It shows that this hobby takes time and even if you throw money at it synergy of the system is not a given. Experience and patience will eventually give success. By the way I have a pair of Verity Parsifals….well done

I've yet to hear convincing description of how amplifiers can provide depth, etc. other than by alterations frequency response. Happy to learn... Thanks!

Interesting “story”…will definitely keep in mind for next upgrade (dac is weak link currently)

I have my end game rig. Just in time for the end of the world. I still love reviews and watch them for entertainment.

Loic, now i can say that you are a true connoisseur of audio. One of the audio guys to go to for advice :) Thank you for all your work and altruism ! Ps : what are the DACs that you mentioned in this video, please ?

This was a good one man. I was able to draw so many parallels to my own journey and I’m early into it, only a few years. I’ve spent..enough..and have heard that bit of “magic” at a dealer and a touch of it at home, at least enough to be thoroughly perplexed, confused and aroused… I was left wondering how open baffles play into your journey as for your graph the Verity Audio speakers were at the top? I know there’s so much more to talk about but speaker design seems to be a big one for most. Thx for doing more of these now, Loïc!

Best investment ever fosi za3, no way you can find a better sounding upgrade. Not dac not cables come close to all the options on upgrade path on this amp(xlr then mono then opamp then rip out the subwoofer and left opamps) . Receivers and most amps you have lying around sound like junk in comparison.

In order of importance; 1.The Room. 2. The mains. 3.Equipment supports. 4.Speakers + Amp. ( this must be treated as a partnership ) 5.Cables 6.Source

This is 100% true and then you just build everything around it

May be this is the best insight and advices. I am walking the same path like every sound sommelier . And I have been experiencing everything you mentioned. There is no shortcut I believe. But I wish there had been a cheaper way of it. The thing you said about how do we know we have a good sounding system. Searching ,knowledge and experience of course. But can a good high quality headphone help us as a reference? I believe that can be more objective way of assessment. Have you tried something like that to check fidelity?

Your speakers and their interaction with your room is the biggest variable. The key to get right. Most of the time, we're not maxing out the limits of DAC or PreAmp or Amp. It is not the electric part, tubes or not. It is the analog part with object physically move and the air moving and resonating in the room. I've worked at a couple recoding studios. The difference between how sound is recorded, tweaked, and reproduced in a studio vs the Hi-Fi world is vastly different because.. of the marketing and selling people stuff with too many options, frankly. It was recorded a certain way, mixed and produced a certain way. They used studio monitors to reference and check the end results. Hi-Fi would take leaps up if only that world did their playback the way the recording studio and engineers did their capture and proofing of the sound. So do as many of our audio chain components like the pros who recorded that music you're listening to did. THAT is absolutely how to get as close to the pure sound you all claim to be chasing after.

Your mic sounds distorted / clipping / crunchy. - might be a gain level thing. Compressor? The screen shot with voice over isn't as bad .. but the desk view is definitely off.

Interesting and we all agree that HiFi is a highly complex and subjective endeavor. As a veteran (30+ yrs) in this hobby I would break it down this way, enumerate the influencers and assign its percentage of influence to the sonic whole. It goes without saying that finding the blend of components that harmonize the best into what we call synergy is what the journey is all about. The influencers imo are (in random order) : 1 Source - 10% 2 Pre amp - 11% 3 Power Amp - 10% 4 Speakers +placement - 12% 5 Cabling, power acc, etc- 6% 6. Room acoustics - 51% Total = 100%

I had high end DIY bookshelf speakers with a decent hybrid amp (Pathos Classic One MK3) which gave me amazing sound (goosebump territory) but only on certain tracks. As soon as I listened to bad or thinner recordings, everything fell apart, sounded annoying. Then I bought a used pair of older floorstanding speakers (price about 15k twenty years ago) and suddenly every music I play sounds good, full bodied, smooth. I can also listen to my old favourites from Queens Of The Stone Age etc. and enjoy it. But something is missing, They never reach the "goosebump territory" that my old speakers could deliver with certain tracks. So everything sounds very good now, but nothing sounds amazing 🥲 The question is, can the speakers get to this point with better source/amplification, or did they reach their limit.

Hmmmm. I’ve tried enough gear to understand your point of view. My NAD M10 and Totem Tribes were great. Same with my Maggie LRS and Pass LAB XA25. But swap either component and listen again…. And nope! Just not happening.

Heck man @hificave one of the most informative videos in a while by a long shot. Thank you sir! One of the most overused word in hifi is 'reference', what is the benchmark here? Dealer's or manufacturer reference? - pfft! A system to replicate a 'live' performance? and pfft! I agree with your logic and its all subjective, especially at 17.06 mins into the video (rofl) nice try though!

I used to think speakers were the most important. Then I found a pair of $700 used speakers, that just keep getting better with better electronics. Ive had 12k speakers in my room that didnt satisfy like these. I also think they would be able to be driven by tubes, something I’ve never dabbled in.

So how does one know when one has collected a fine pile of components and having collected them how to set them up properly from cables and speaker placement to vibration. I think I have some nice gear. Im just not sure if they play nice together since Im the only one hearing them

So you have sold you Musical Paradise MP-D2? What did you went for instead? V4?

Hi I have to say love your videos,but dac is not a source, streamer is ,a lot of people use computers (pc or laptops😢) cd transport,turntable,tape.

What are your thoughts on Amp/speaker combinations from the same manufacturer?

Did your room treatment play any role in this story/journey?

#Wisdom.... :)

@headshotpros888 [elsewhere in this thread] nailed it when he wrote: 'Your speakers and their interaction with your room is the biggest variable as far as kit is concerned.' I've had the good, the bad and the downright ugly of kit at one time or another and I know by experience how true this is. Back in the day, the recieved wisdom was that the source [usually a turntable] was the all critical, make or [system] break component. And most contemporary Hi-Fi gurus would expound on the virtue of spending most of your hard earned Hi-Fi budget on said source. Yet, I have always considered that a much more even handed approach to budget allocation was the way to go. After all, what use that over specced turntable when those crappy, after thought, speakers make everything sound awful? To this end, I feel that Hi-Fi Cave with his notion of 'balance', is giving us all a good steer! In simple terms, picture your system as a series of components joined like links in a chain. And consider each link as an interface. So, what do we [minimally] have: a source, interfacing with an amplifier, interfacing with a pair of speakers, interfacing with [as is seldom considered] the listening room. And it is this final speaker/room interface where any goodness from up the chain gets mauled by nodes and anti-nodes and absorbtions and reflections....... Thankfully, unlike that man, we don't have to spend $6,000.000 to fix this! Those pesky room effects can be 'dialed out' with a little digital wizardry. This is the way I have gone.

How to reach your HiFi endgame, you tell exactly how to get there, what’s the most important part? Your answer: all matters. To me this video didn’t help. Maybe I missed something…?