Much appreciated

you're taking this guy's advice? last time he was popular on the internet he kept getting angry because people called him out when he kept incorrectly calling the Evergreen the "ever given" lol. It said Evergreen right on it. lolll

5/18/24..A+ on this your 2nd video re: MVDali vs Key Bridge collision. Chief, this video was much more understandable than several other YT reviews of the NTSB (preliminary?) report focusing on the Electrical layout. Much appreciated the time you have taken to pull up pictures of the different equipment 'boxes' & splice-in actual video of the engine room with close-ups of the various 'boxes'. Also you spent much time (editing) showing the chronology of the events as the flow path traveled from 1 box along its circut thru the safety circut overload 'breakers' then continuing along to lower voltage area then to the many needed areas....instantly!! So far several YT commentors all focus on this electrical schematic & emphasize the various flow Paths...but you are the only one who mentions the possible Cause...>like what feeds the big generators< ..# 1,2,3 & 4 which trigger everything that follows. As you say Chief, we all must wait for further info from NTSB...but I think you are on the right track! Thx Chief, 👍⚙️🔩👨‍🔧

​@@SimpingForXanman2the company that ran the Ever Given was (is?) Evergreen (Marine) ... Hence the large writing on the side of the ship. The ship's name (Ever Given) was on the stern (in much smaller writing Hope that helps ...

​@@SimpingForXanman2 seriously???

I appreciate that!

Yes Chief, I've been waiting for your comments on the NTSB report. Your explanation and diagram are excellent but in the end the preliminary report seems to raise more questions than it answers. I guess we'll have to wait for the final version and hope that the mysteries are solved.

Right tighty lefty loosy 😂

That's the difference that having 4 stripes on your uniform makes :) The cadets and oilers/wipers do most of the heavy physical work of turning large wrenches and cleaning up messes.

Could you imagine that losing `propeller walk´ once main engine slows down and finally stops could cause some `compensation effect´ pushing stern to starboard then (opposite to active prop-walk pushing to port for right-handed propeller)? I wonder whether such thing could explain Dali veering to starboard and towards the pillar once the first blackout happened. However, just thinking from physics here, and thus I'm interested in feedback from experienced seafarers & pilots.

My pleasure! 😊

You are very welcome.

I try my best. Thanks 😊

That's a very likely possibility.

Thank you. When I heard BOTH breakers tripped, I wondered. That function would absolutely be needed if Both transformers were on line and one had a ground fault. (Ex ET radar not a Electricians mate, but that did push my What The button)

Good thinking on this. I'm not familiar with vessels of this size, but electrical systems on ships are required to be fairly fault tolerant for exactly this reason. It is considered to be safer to have a warning of a fault and continue to have an operating ship, rather than an automatic disconnect. In this system there may be a setpoint at which a warning is not sufficient and disconnect is required to prevent catastrophic damage.

@@davidsutton9195 Transformer diff, bus diff, gen diff will all trip instantaneously. No delay, no warning and usually attempts to prevent a catastrophic failure of that component. Over current, under / over frequency, over / under voltage you will have a delay within certain parameters and can be instantaneous outside certain parameters. A differential works by comparing what current is coming in to what current is going out on that piece of equipment. Any "differential" between that and it will trip to limit the fault current and try to save the equipment. And yes, the relays are configured to account for the different voltages and respective currents and or phase shift depending on transformer configuration. When something trips on differential you normally do not ever just reset and re-energize without inspecting the device that just tripped. When a lockout rolls due to a differential, it's usually an oh shit moment. If lucky, it was some unlucky animal that got itself electrocuted and the equipment is usually OK. On land, snakes, raccoons, birds, rats and even iguanas (when I worked in S Florida) are the usual culprits. I'm sure on ships you can get snakes or rats as well. With a three phase delta distribution / feeder, you can have one phase fault to ground and continue to operate with a ground fault warning. But if another phase were to contact ground, now you have a phase to phase fault. But any ground or phase fault within a differential zone of protection, as mentioned above will trip instantaneously.

@@davidsutton9195 I think it's just a matter of procedure here, namely the two transformers TR1 and TR2 I'm sure are identical, so there wouldn't be any problem if during the critical port entry-exit periods both are connected in parallel, and the differential protection of each transformer could disconnect in case of fault the transformer that has problems and the other one remains online. Yes indeed, the differential protection simultaneously triggers both switches on the transformer and the high voltage input and the low voltage one, I have not worked on ships but in factories this is how it works

Incompetents don't listen and ignore repeated warnings (Stockton for example).

Glad you enjoy it!

@@ChiefMAKOi I did indeed enjoy your video. Keep up the good work. What did you use to create the infographic?

THIS is why it's not worth the brain space to have little patience waiting on the Chief.

Thanks Richard.

There seem to be serious questions that need to be answered about the competency of the NTSB people who released that report with such a deficient diagram that was incomplete, misleading and inaccurate. If that sort of thing is the basis upon which the NTSB conducts its business and investigations then there seem to be serious problems. Not the least of which being questions about their ability to even understand systems yet alone reach well reasoned and technically sound conclusions.

I believe the first diagram is the original. It's called schematic diagram.

I actually defer to Master Mariners when it comes to these topics. 😁 That's a good explanation.

His diagram and explanation are a perfect example of good engineering practice. Never put anything in your explanation you don't need to make your point.

Well xplain. I use to be a tester of gen - set tester. 😊

Being one of the `some people´ 😅 (and even using allegory with 4-engine birds like B-747 or A380), let me share that basically my rationale when thinking about going for `split operation´ in confined waters comes from a safety approach; primarily targeting to avoid total loss of electrical power (due to full redundancy) but as fast as can be recovery at least. Reading other comments from chiefs & experienced seafarers, it appears to be common practice on ships to have both HR and LR cross-ties closed (but cutting one transformer path instead). Discussion also brought up `classic´ transformers (i.e. with coil windings) better should be kept online from HV-side (but switched off from LV bus, thus no further load) to have some heating to get rid of moisture plus avoiding strong initiate inrush currents. Keeping them connected to the HV bus would be possible for both scenarios. Generators need frequency synchronisation before switched to a common bus (some analogy from aviation is synchronisation of propeller engines to avoid the wings and fuselage build up oscillations due to the `beating´ frequencies coming from different RPM). Perhaps that syncing is slightly easier with HR cross-tie already connected, although the synchronisation control needs to be done by simple sensing of the frequencies already before generators are connected. For almost all cases, the approach with closed HR and LR cross-ties obviously worked fine so far, and there are also safety measures in place which are working fine if there’s sufficient time for emergency procedures. Such power switching does not happen instantaneously... Now comes probability from such an incident to happen in a location where every second counts… But we also have to wait for all details & findings of the investigation, of course. If there’s another, very central failure which causes the entire system to drown nevertheless, then splitting wouldn’t help either (but further reduce probability at least).

yes as i am an apritnace ele on house hold 220 and 110 uthe digram made more since since I dont know ships ele systems

My pleasure

Chief MAKOi, yourself and chief `Steam man´ are doing great job here by following up and providing comprehensive explanations & insights as best as can. Each with partly slightly different perspective, but everyone trying to be very objective and focussed on facts - highly appreciated! So carry on , please!

Thanks Sal! 😊

Thanks and welcome

Thanks and welcome

Glad it was helpful!

Second this from experience in my field. Keyword - or shall I better call it buzz-word - is `specialisation´, paired with high workload such that it's more important to jump from one task to next rather than also building up more broad-band knowledge...

That is terrifying to me. I was navy operator in the steam plant on aircraft carriers. We had to understand the fundamentals of systems in the plant right down to the basic physics. And while I was a mechanic and thus ran the turbines and pumps and propulsion an generators (turbinenside) I had to understand the electrical and electronics well enough to know how they behaved and why. In our school if you didn't know why you could fail even if you got the short answer correct. I know not all systems and ships were as "big" or complex or redundant as a carrier but tonnage is tonnage. And keeping a ship running and maneuverable is paramount. Maintains safety margins, knowing immeaditae actions, reading the plant quickly and decisively so it can be restored is just necessary. You can't do that if you don't understand that. Specialization might be good for being good at the technical knowledge need for good maintenance but these guys are operators to and need to be proficient in those core knowledge skills and abilites too.

@@zionbrin1 At the end, to me it’s key to have a healthy, balanced mix. On the one hand, specialists being able to really get down to atomic (or even sub-atomic) level are needed to push limits of science & engineering. Same time, you need more `generalist experts´, who can follow the specialists of different fields and especially are able to understand & build the links in between the various disciplines. The more people you have with such broadband skills, the better of course. In case of aircraft carriers and submarines, it’s essential being able to fix things and overcome critical situations quickly with limited crew (and no other help being in around which one could call …). So no surprise to me there’s such selection and training of crew members to achieve resilience; paired with intense emergency `drill exercises´. In principle, same applies for civil maritime crews for same reasons, of course. Wrt industry, I already put my comment above. Like mentioned, it depends on individual attitude and partly on workload. But I also challenge mgmt. levels here; with quite some of them putting more focus on their own career instead of strengthening & building up resilient team (and unfortunately preventing talented people to climb up). To be clear: this comment is not intended as kind of assessing or even judging on Dali’ crew performance here.

Hope you enjoyed it!

Much appreciated.

Glad you like them!

@@ChiefMAKOi ain't seen one that I didn't like. As a heavy truck mechanic for over 30 years it's interesting to see the difference in the equipment. For the most part they are all the same. Same principles I guess you could say. They are all nuts and bolts. Anyway let me know when you are going to treat your team to something different and I will definitely kick in some doh. It's an honor to. There's so many channels to donate to but like anything else some are probably a bit sketchy as to what the money will go towards I have no doubt when I donate to you. Ty for the informative and relevant information I love it. I'm to old to change my path now so it's nice to be able to see what it's all about. Take care of yourself and your crew. On last thing. What is the closest you have been to Canada or have you been here and if so have you ever sailed on the great lakes. Sorry if sailed isn't the correct word. Also you hear stories about how they can be far dangerous then the ocean's. I've heard stories of people who spent their entire lives on the water and say no way not happening. Thanks again and sorry for the long comment. 👍🇨🇦🔧

Glad it helped

While you can start a vehicle engine in reverse (diesel) it has nothing to do with the Dali engine, it runs in reverse deliberately. Pumps are all totally independent and nothing to do with engine rotation. .

Glad it was helpful!

Could there have been a worm in the software of these automated systems? There have been reports that the Chinese container cranes in port could have surreptitiously inserted code into shipboard systems (as could numerous other causes), I know you're an engineer, not an IT security expert. But with automated systems, software is involved, probably not air-gapped systems so accessible online especially when in close proximity to appropriate digital transmitters as would be more likely in port than at sea...

Ahh the conspiracy stuff comes flying out. You don't think a million tons ramming a bridge can bring one down all by its lonesome? Look up the Tampa Bay Bridge, Tacoma Narrows and the Minnesota collapse (and the near failure of a bridge down Tennessee way that inspections were being faked on). You just proved there is no over coming the power of human stupidity.

Some considerations from technical perspective wrt collapse of the Key Bridge itself, some `moving lights´; but especially some `flashes´ which can be observed. Quite long comment, targeting to come up with the physics behind. Deleted my earlier comment and replaced with more detailed review now. Time stamps refer to YT video uploaded by `First Coast News’ (Full Video Francis Scott Key bridge ...); I've also uploaded this comment there. This moving light, starting 02m31s coming from right, going to left (until 03m13s) at a level where webcam position suggests is “same height as the main bridge truss”, can simply be either helicopter or airplane - that’s it. Period. Few considerations before digging into the other, individual flashes observed. My view upfront: some of them related to simple electrical shorts, the others most likely due to strong metal bending and ripping caused by forces of the collapse (only). At 0129 EDT am it’s typically dark, except from the lightshow coming from Baltimore harbour; with some top lights of the container cranes on same height as the bridge truss. So easiest explanation for some `flashes´ simply might be lights being hidden before. Possibly also some reflections when the bridge segment starts moving downwards. Plus the smoke from Dali also causing some blurring effect towards left side. Camera sensor might also be more sensitive with sudden changes when lights covered by the truss before get visible. However, yes, when carefully observing and watching the video, this cannot really explain the flashes observed. First glow at 05m39s (012849EDT), then 05m40s (012850EDT), the video shows two flashes, i.e. glowing spots in the middle of the left bridge truss which collapsed and shows serious bending already. Take note all 3 bridge’s flashing signal lights still operating at that time and turned on (especially the one to the right just switched on) - i.e. electricity still present. So easiest explanation could be that we simply can see their cables being damaged and creating short-circuit - which typically ends up with flashes. That’s very obvious for the left bridge truss segment. Assuming cables are running along top side of the truss, that could also explain the flashes observed close to the signal light in the middle of the main truss few moments later at same time 05m40s still. Note this signal light only briefly seemed to light up again but never fully made it and is gone then. At some point we might expect a breaker tripping due to high current. Also lighting on the bridge lanes disappeared on the left and middle truss segment (while still working on the one to the right). 05m42s (012852EDT) is very interesting since the main truss starts to break towards its right pillar, with flashes both on top side of the truss but also its lower, inner bow. I’d be bit surprised and ask why the cable for signal lights on the top should move down to the inner bow there. Could be; flashes would have same root cause then although I’d be surprised that no electrical fuses already cut off power there. Much more important, extreme bending can be observed, due to large amount of the truss already accelerating towards the water due to its weight and force of gravity (plus possibly some forced due to the impact when Dali hit the pillar), while the part close to the pillar still fixed to it. 05m43s (012853EDT) the middle of main truss has already reached water level - i.e. 50m lower. Same time lights went out on the right truss, possibly another short circuit in case there’s still been voltage present in the cables. So far some the flashes could have been explained by shorts in the electrical cables. First “white” flash, follow by more yellowish / orange one in case some of the isolation gets burned & vapourized. But I don’t think that’s all, so let’s get to some more nasty stuff - physics. To start with something easy: there’s no question that cutoff grinding creates a lot of sparks flying around, right? Obviously steel doesn’t really like this treatment. Glowing sparks suggest quite some energy involved, too. Main truss of the Key bridge had clear height of more than 50m / 167ft. Top level of the main truss could be up to 100m / 333ft. The bridge starts to collapse and gravitation kicks in. Very simple rule says with acceleration of 10m/s² , after 1 second speed could be as fast as 10m/s = 36km/h already; and main bridge truss already dropped by 10m then, too. In reality it can additionally be influenced due to some mechanical forces (either slowed down or accelerated further). Energy goes with velocity squared; v² - ooopps. At 05m42s; i.e. only 2 seconds after the initial flash described for left truss segment, the inner bow moved down by approx. 20m / 66ft, with a speed of already 2s * 10m/s² = 20m/s = 72km/h then. Tons of steel crashing down and heavily pulling at those points where one can observe the flashing in the truss. Again, 05m43s the middle of main truss has already reached water level - i.e. 50m lower. If you simply drop a stone from 100m height (let’s neglect some potential friction when moving in air), it reaches water surface after 4.47s , at a speed of 44.7m/s = 161km/h - oouuch. 05m44s (012854EDT) the last angle-steel strap rips-off finally, with another remarkable flash. I wonder if that’s electrical cable still, or whether this is different effect now. Bending and finally ripping-off creates much heat, and there’s very strong forces involved here to bend these angle steel straps for sure. So I’d say this flash might be caused by the forces & energies made visible in the darkness of the night when the electromagnetic bindings between the atoms are ripped off, possibly also ionising air due to the heat involved. Feel free to call me `mad dog´; but when has this made visible in such a way before? But I have something even much more spectacular for you: 05m47s; especially 05m49s (012859EDT) - check the collapse of the truss directly above the right pillar of main bridge section. It starts unsuspicious, however exactly when lower bow of the truss finally crashes on the pillar. You can observe very pronounced orange glowing then, first on the right, but later especially to the left. Could partly come from port lights, camera effects etc. However, this segment crashes down with upper parts from height of 70m minimum, then `rubs´ along the pillars (remember, 50m clear height minimum), creating lots of friction, bending and heat again. Yes, may look like blowing of charges or some explosion. But partly takes too long (expected to be short single flash); and I’m missing the smoke that would typically come along with that (especially when the flashes are in orange). It's all physics triggered due to MS Dali crashed into the pillar; without any other additional “influence”. By accident, the roadworks at night and quick reaction of Baltimore pilots office and MDTA officers prevented human disaster of even higher magnitude. Those 6 road-workers who have lost their lives - may their souls rest in peace. My sincere condolences to their families.

The reports / this video show that the reefer containers (and other equipment / circuits) hang off the HV bus via their own transformer circuits so should not (?) have caused the decisive tripping of the LV transformer circuit… But there was definitely some funny stuff going on with the electrics in port…..