the zwashhhhhtika

To problem is that the German laws haven't been adjusted to the Internet&modern technology yet. It's no problem showing swastikas in Germany - as long as it's on TV or in movies. Video games or the Internet, though? Not so easy. For example, all the Indiana Jones movies were shown completely uncut in German cinemas, with a "12" rating, and regularly air on TV. The video games, however, have to cut out all swastikas if the distributor wants to sell them to anyone under the age of 18, or wants to do _any_ marketing on them.

James explains why World War II series on Extra History won't use the swastika of Nazi Germany.

I learned two things 1) I've been pronouncing swastika incorrectly, and 2) the correct one sounds stupid AF

I'm pretty sure you could have used it. The 86a clearly says: (3) Subsection (1) shall not be applicable if the means of propaganda or the act serves to further civil enlightenment, to avert unconstitutional aims, to promote art or science, research or teaching, reporting about current historical events or similar purposes. Education is fine.

Actually the law against swastikas is applied most heavily against computer games because they're not considered art. Movies usually get a pass. Indiana Jones 3 was uncensored in Germany even though it's hardly a teaching material.

isn't this educational? Then it is allowed, isn't it?

An awful lot of people are reacting as if this was EC/EH's way of placating people who don't like the Nazi swastika. That simply isn't true; It's *illegal* to show in Germany, not impolite, and EH wants to reach the broadest audience possible to teach their history. It's not EH's call, then; Take the issue up with the German government. Realistically speaking, many German forces did use the iron cross insignia rather than the Nazi swastika; It was the SS and other party-aligned forces that prominently displayed it. While the Luftwaffe often did display the Nazi swastika due to its close organizational ties with the party, for example, Erwin Rommel's Afrika Korps would often display the iron cross, even though the official seal of the unit included the Nazi swastika. German tanks in the Stalingrad theatre under Field Marshal Paulus also displayed the iron cross. So it's not historically inaccurate (except for depictions of the Luftwaffe, who aren't the focus of this series), plus it passes muster in German law. That's a win-win for everybody.

I'm so glad you guys put out a video explaining your rationale. It's great to have that sort of up-front, forward communication, and I look forward to see the new series!

It is a religious symbol for us Hinduis.

I was distracted by the background; Dune is amazing and more people need to read it. That is all.

+1 to you guys for having the foresight to address this issue, addressing this issue with a sensitivity that may be hard for some to fathom as Americans who have not had to deal with this problem personally, and for your openness in discussing your decision to exclude this symbol. Your enthusiasm, diligence, sensitivity, and candor are all things I have come to love about this series, and Extra Credits overall.

2016: You can't solve anything by denying a symbol 2019: Boom, you are a racist.

"Why we don't use the swastika" *demonetization flashbacks*

Simple and straighforward. Very much appreciated, Extra History. You see, details like these are what makes you the best. Keep the quality content coming.

Thanks for not getting your channel blocked, it just makes it all the easier to watch you guys. :)

One can tell the crew on Extra Credits do care about teaching and history, seeing that James took time out of his busy schedule specifically to address something many probably (including myself) would not have noticed. Thanks as a history fan and keep up the good work.

My thoughts on the law aside, I appreciate you telling us and understand.

I suppose that seems fair. The 51 dislikes on this video are probably more due to the mic quality than disagreement.

well... being a German... i can tell you... there is no better way to fight Neo-Nazis then using and explaining their symbols. And yes, there was a Turkish-German Artist that read "Mein Kampf" (Hitlers Main (can i call it that?) philosophical Book) to us (and you can find it on youtube... with a german IP...)... and it was like the most efficient anti Nazie program ever... Every German History Teacher (if he ever uses an english video on this topic. I mean it's our History and you wont teach us anything new...) is way past the "OMG YOU CAN'T SHOW THAT" state... just saying. There might be 20.000 People in one country that you censor yourself for,... not worth it.

Is it just me, or did half the people in the comments not bother actually watching the video?

Well, why not do both? Have a censored version for Germany, and an uncensored version for everyone else?

you guys give such wonderful time and attention to your fans. it's very refreshing

I appreciate that you came down on the side of caution so that the videos could serve a wider audience.

I have a hard time taking that symbol seriously, I know so many people who try to be funny or though and carve a tiny little swastika in the school desk or something. It's like a bland meme to me in those cases. Lo and behold it's the same in the comment section and people even upvote that shit. "Omg this dude commented like a billion swastikas! That's so funny and daring! must upvote!"

I love how emotional you get James about these historical facts it just makes a show for me to know how you are about your facts

Thanks for the heads up, I can't wait to see what you will be covering.

Thank you, guys! Really appreciate it. Would've been a bummer not being able to watch this video series for me.

The German army was not full of Nazis contrary to media portrayals. Even towards the end of the war, about 1 out of 10 Germans were ever members of the Nazi Party. In fact, the German Army High Command had a high level of contempt for Hitler because he was a commoner-most of the German officers were nobility or blue blooded.

As a german, I appreciate your concerns very much and I would like to thank you for even considering this to be a problem. It really shows how much you care about this show and your community. As a german, I always have the feeling that nazi symbolism is something i'm not supposed to look at, even if it's educational. I am personally not offended by it, but it's like a sex scene in game of thrones: it's not what you watch it for but if someone else sees it out of context it's really awkward and you have to explain yourself.

An Extra History series on WWII, I'm excited for this even moreso than usual

Woah IRL James! I'm a new fan and it was a first for me :P --- What I love about you guys so much is that you all care so much about getting the right info to us in the best way possible and this video reinforces that desire. you guys rock.

"shwashtika" wtf?

“Swashtika”

Thank you for looking out for us, and for explaining your reasons.

I found your channel and became a new subscriber because of the World of Tanks sponsored series. Your explanation is fresh, as is your transparency. Nice content here at this channel. Thumbs up.

I´m sorry, but you interpreted these German laws as way to strict. Basically, swastikas can be shown for any educational or artistic purposes, and nobody at all minds swastikas in film and tv (anything from serious der Untergang and Man in the High Castle to over the top Inglorious Basterds - even frickin comedy scetches!). And I have never seen or heard of a documentary censoring the nazi symbols. The ONLY place where you will regulary find an absence of swastikas are video games, because no publisher ever had the balls to court for video games getting recognized as art, and before anyone dares to get this legal definition issue resolved publishers just go the easy and save way of doing the censorship themselves. Oh, and the shirt shop raid is about 50% urban myth and got rightfully ridiculed in German media as well. That was just one overzealous official but certainly not an actual representation of general legal policies. Also, this is youtube. I can easily view thousands of swastika-including videos here from Germany with zero trouble. I´m sure you had the best intentions in mind, but taking the nazi symbols out is absolutely 100% unneccessary. I´d really appreciate if you restored the historical symbols in future episodes. Sincerely, a German

it is very strange, because you see the swastika all over german television, in documentiers and movies about ww2. only in videogames they get cut out. so this is a strange desicion for me to be honest.

This is yet another reason why I like you guys. You actually think about these issues. You discuss pros and cons. I probably wouldn't have even thought about the video being taken down if I were in your shoes, but you guys have sound reasoning. A video that can't be shown in the country that it's mostly about doesn't help the people you're talking about.

Sounds like the best compromise was made, look forward to the series. Side question: where did that Jodorowsky's Dune poster come from?

Let me, some random German, just elaborate on this a bit more (as far as I understand it). It is *not always* forbidden to show Nazi Symbols. However, it must be done in an educating or examining/discussing way. So it is possible to print it inside a history book or show it in documentaries. Movies and other forms of art about/in/with Nazi-Germany is usually also okay as long as they don't shine a positive light on it. The problem with videogames like Wolfenstein is that German law does not accept games as Art or education material, thus Nazi symbolism is a no-go. (Please correct me if my facts are wrong but this is how I understood it so far)

Heh. Yeah, that ugly part of our history? That never happened. Never.

This series is awesome!😄 (I really love learning about WW2.😊)

the info is more important than the icon. I support this decision and back you guys 100% keep up the great work. And thanks for the explanation.

Thanks ^^ would have been a pain in the arse not being able to watch your videos.

lol no teachers in germany are going to use your videos

Well, it is unfortunate that people still cannot talk and use all of the information of history, but I'm glad you took a stance of doing this so it could reach more globally. Thank you James, and everyone of the Extra Credits team old and new for continuing to bring us Extra History.

I dont know why, but i just love watching James speak about different stuff.

The Iron Cross is indeed still historically accurate, and so you're not wrong there. Keep up the good work!

Well... Still the swastika is thousands of years old, also, the "nazi" salute, is actually of hispanic origin and predated the roman empire. Can people just give symbols their real meaning?

thanks for taking the time to explain

that Dune / Cthulhu background choice... I love this man even more now.

I am sad by this, but I respect y'all's choice to not show the Swastika! I look forward to the new series

So it it a parody symbol like a black X instead, or the iron cross? I think the iron cross is still used in Germany. In my view, it seems worse to associate the iron cross, a symbol of Germany but not strictly Nazi's, to be used to symbolize Nazi's. If it strictly represents German soldiers like Red Orchestra 2, where the lack of a swatstica helps the game's viewpoint that there is no real evil side down on the battlefield, then I think it's fine to use the iron cross. I haven't seen your series so I don't know if you are talking about the political/holocaust side, which is the Nazi side, or the battlefield side, where it doesn't matter because "Every Nazi is evil, but not every German is a Nazi." And many troops were just brainwashed by propaganda (the younger troops) or kept their mouth shut out of fear for their families. I don't know, this is just the viewpoint of an outside American that likes history. To relate the issue to my country, it may be something like replacing the confederate flag with the bald eagle, which insults the bald eagle. I'm not judging you guys, I understand either way you don't win, and I still haven't seen the video so maybe you didn't use the iron cross.

Well if there is one thing I appreciate it's transparency, so thank you Sir James for explaining you and your colleague's reasons for this purposeful omittance.

I think it would be interesting to make an episode on symbols intended to be forgotten, including, but not limited to the swastika, hammer and sicle and the "rising sun" japanese flag. I am sure there are more around the world but they don't get much attention and the crimes they symbolise are starting to be forgotten. BTW, Japanese Ministry of tourism changed the official map symbol for temple from a swastika to a pagoda in 2015, amongst many preparations for the Olimpics

. Good choice. Better to make this concession and substitute a less 'Nazi' symbol to avoid being banned, than to hold to rigid authenticity on a silly stand of principle, and then have your extremely educationally valuable series not available to a large number of people. Thank you for explaining this issue, and for doing it in the first place.

Those who forget the mistakes of the past will be doomed to repeat them Note: this is directed at German lawmakers, not extra credits

thank you for explaining this. I do appreciate how you take this matter seriously

Thanks for the transparent and upfront disclaimer. Will you use something like a mirrored swastika or an *X* or something, so one can see where it _woul've_ been on their Matirial, uniforms and so on?

I have read many of the comments here and I do understand both points of view. I agree not showing the Swastika in this series is understandable to avoid the legal hassles that could arise from it. I am also very happy that instead of letting this discussion to arise in the comments of the actual videos, it was great that EC had an open discussion here. However I do wish the Swastika wan't such a taboo. For many of the reasons that were said here such as historical accuracy, freedom of speech, and etc. One point I did not see was its hypocritical, why is it that the Swastika is banned/scorned when the Hammer and Sickle isn't. I have many friends and a few family members who suffered at the hands of Communist regimes. If you were to list the numerous war crimes that Communist regimes have committed. People either didn't know or they immediately assume your talking about the Axis powers during WW2. Even before, during, and after the Soviet Union slaughter Billions of People including more Jews then during the Holocaust. I know you could argue they had more time, but how does that make it any less horrifying. I have spoken, listen, and seen many people who still can tell of the horrors they suffered at the hand of Communism. Many understandably can't even bear to look at the symbols of Communism with out being overwhelmed. So why let one hateful symbol be shown when another cannot? I would like to know peoples opinion in this as well in the comments of this video. I believe that both should be shown, because freedom of speech and expression is more beneficial then the hateful things we might here now and again. For the reason my Grandfather told to me "Extremism in any shape or form (political, religious, etc) is a danger to all societies, and should be met in open forums to be denounced. Then to just forbid it so it can then fester in the dark until it is to late." A great historical example was the Nazi march in Skokie in 1977, that even thou the Nazi's were aloud to march with the Swastika held high a larger and more diverse group peacefully marched in opposition of them. This helped people of many different looks and beliefs come together against hate. That to me is the best benefit of letting these horrible speeches and symbols be in the open, so people can see it and stand together against such things.

Gonna be straight here. this is a dumb law. Germany, your not using the Nazi Symbol as a joke, your using it to *Teach fucking history* , what, are you just gonna try to say "Oh uh, the Nazi symbol is completely pointless except it's not.", that's bullshit. Edit: note this is coming from someone who's grandfather was in the air force, so I'm not trying to downplay world war II's effects on the world or some shit, but you SHOULD NEVER censor something for the purpose of making a few people happy, sometimes happiness isn't always a good thing.

I'm a Brit living in Germany (actually in a town Hitler was in as a child as it happens, just a couple of streets away... bizarrely), and last summer there was an exposition in the high street of pictures of the town throughout history. It was certainly very interesting, but they had put circular stickers over the swastikas in any of the pictures from that period. That point really got me thinking about this censorship, and what I thought about it. I think it's certainly an odd law, but it's not whitewashing as some people have said. The fact is they don't ignore it, they are well aware of their history. I understand it now, from talking to friends, as more as a insult to the symbol, that this says that the symbol doesn't have the right to be seen, than whitewashing or ignoring it. That is to say, a conscious decision that symbol doesn't deserve to be shown outside of certain contexts - it is too serious, and adult. This way it can be seen as actually quite a conscious decision to maintain the law and now i understand why it exists here. I don't say I support it or don't support it, but I understand it a bit better now. People saying that this is a government whitewashing history should take into account the scale of the Memorial to the Murdered Jews of Europe, which is an enormous amount of space to devote to an aspect of national shame, next to the most prestigious monument to historic pride and the seat of national government.

i am LOVING that way of pronouncing swastika. i'm adopting that, as soon as i can get enough practice in to make it roll off my tongue. thank you for a really excellent variant pronunciation!

Swashtika. lol

I think it's more of an issue for wargaming rather than german law... Also, yay, hate on germany ahead -_-

The topic of showing nazi symbols is not that easy .. Its not simply about washing out history but promoting the symbol without the deep enough context. I mean promoting in sense of showing symbol to public, that anyone know exactly that this is symbol of Nazi, without understanding what Nazi were beside just "bad guys". Thats why its OK to show it in history context, but not on its own...

world war 2 is, to me, one of the most fascinating wars in history. so I'm looking forward to seeing this series as it comes out.

Honestly I think that the fact that the swastika is given such a bad image now is saddening. I It originated long before hitler and was a symbol of life and peace and prosperity. I don't agree with anything hitler believed in, but the swastika should not have a permanent bad image because of one wrongful use of it.

Cowards

It's a really hard choice to make, sadly I can't really add to the discussion because I agree with you 100%. Thanks for the information, and thanks for more history!

Good on you guys. I understand how difficult of a decision it must have been. I agree with you that we should not censure or shy away from the past but in this case, being able to reach German audiences with the upcoming series at the cost of partial self censure may be worth it. The educational value in your series makes it worth it. I look forward to watching it.

There should be a law against James saying the word swastika.

I have tremendous respect for the way you teach us history(and everything else). The whole team is simply amazing.

Actually its normal to show the Swastika in Germany in documentaries and movies as long as it is not in a glorifying way. I dont think it would have been a problem to show it in your series. But i can understand your decision and its good that you made a video about it.

I commend your transparency guys, kudos!

Good move, the way you did it, explaining your choice in this video is more educative I believe, no matter your choice and your opinion, you explained it and this to me is the most important. Thank you for keeping this serie as awesome as it is :)

will you finish Justinian & Theodora? will you finish that series whit episodes on sundays like normal and ww2 on mondays? Or will you do the ww2 videos first then return to j&t? Please some one give me the answer because i really want to know

That educational exception from the Swaztika ban should actually apply here, but KZfaq might block the video in Germany just to make sure. Thanks from a german viewer. :)

I respect your decision, and looking forward on more videos.

I hate how the swastika has been so much labelled a national socialist symbol, since for example, my country's (Finland) swastika comes from an ancient symbol called the Tursaansydän, our airforce still uses the Finnish swastika (which is not in a 45° angle) and we have used it 30 years before the NSDAP ever did. The Latvian airforce also used the swastika before the Germans ever did, but stopped using it after the 2nd World War.

honestly, I never even noticed it was missing

I have no problem with you using the balkenkruez to represent the German Armed forces, as that was their symbol during WW2. It's no different then using the White Star for the US, or a Red Star for the Soviet Union, or the Tri-color of the British RAF to represent British Forces. As a matter of fact, the only branch of the armed forces that typically had swastikas emblazoned on their vehicles was the Luftwaffe who typically had the swastika painted on their tails.

Really digging that Cthulu figure in the back. Nice!

Nice copy of Dune in the background. Where did you get it?

Thanks for the clarification! Extra Credit is awesome!

fun fact German army vehicles didn't have swastikas anywhere on them with the exception of airborne identifier panels (you stick them on top of the tank so your guys know who not to drop bombs on) however Finland did have swastikas on very prominently displayed on there tanks and planes.

Hmm... this sounds like it has some bad audio problems, was there a problem in uploading, or was it just not altered before it was posted?

Before the wall was down, East Berlin had the only legally displayed swastika in Germany, shown in a statue under the boot of a Soviet soldier. Anybody know if that statue is still there?

I think choosing to have a more easily available education tool is certainly more valuable then perfect historic accuracy, especially on what are essentially cartoon drawings of figures in the period, better that everyone has an equal opportunity to learn then a reduced number have a higher quality learning experience.

Someday that coat will come up missing. I will not be the one stealing it, BUT I will somehow end up in possession of it.

Can you make a separate video for them?

It is a pity but I assume no teacher here in germany will ever use one of your videos in his lessons simply because they don't know them and many of them are not that good in english.

is doing 2 versions of the videos not an option?

Awesome explanation, tysm for the clarification

Hey James, I'm glad you made the decision to not show the swastika just in case German (and incidentally, Austrian) audiences wouldn't be able to watch your videos. One suggestion though - if you guys have trouble pronouncing the German names of things (Wehrmacht, Luftwaffe etc.), it might be a good idea to just skip doing that and call them "German army", and so on. As someone who's native to the German language, I had to listen to some parts a couple of times to make out what word exactly you guys were referring to. It's serving nobody if the pronunciation is off the mark entirely.

Legend of the Spelljammer? That's pretty nifty!

Tough choice to make but ultimately the best with the situation at hand. Once again, love this channel

Using the swastika should really depend on the context. In the situation of this EH series the Balkenkreuz is appropriate as it is the symbol of the Heer, it also helps emphasise that the average German soldier wasn't a Nazi.

They were despicable people who committed unspeakable atrocities, but the Nazis sure had some badass symbolism. The swastikas, the iron crosses, the eagles. They sure knew how to look cool.