Fëanor - Maker of Silmarils | Was he a hero? An anti-hero? Or a straight up villain?
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Күн бұрынTolkien's most complex elf! He created the Silmarils, he led his people to Middle-earth, and he did unspeakably evil things in the process...
Learn more about the life of Fëanor in this Silmarillion Explained playlist:
1) Fëanor & the Silmarils - • The Crafting of the Si...
2) The Unrest of the Noldor - • The Unrest of the Nold...
3) Ungoliant - • Ungoliant | Of Fëanor ...
4) The Oath of Fëanor - • The Oath | Of Fëanor a...
5) The First Kinslaying - • Kinslaying & The Doom ...
6) The Fall of Fëanor - • The Battle Beneath the...
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@calebowen2006 Жыл бұрын
Whether good or bad you gotta respect this dude chased the most powerful being across the world to fight him
@collinhawkins4857 Жыл бұрын
And was swiftly killed
@calebowen2006 Жыл бұрын
@@collinhawkins4857 okay but he still put more effort in than I ever would
@collinhawkins4857 Жыл бұрын
@@calebowen2006 I mean if by effort you mean destroying family, dooming your children, and killing other elves, yeah. Tons of effort.
@BK5250 Жыл бұрын
@@collinhawkins4857 by a host of balrogs
@collinhawkins4857 Жыл бұрын
@@BK5250 true, but in retrospect maybe charging off with only part of your own host, and burning boats after kinslaying is foolish--not something to celebrate.
@ericjohnson9623 Жыл бұрын
Galadriel giving Gimli the hair says everything about what Tolkien considers "worthy." Feanor is a genius, a great warrior, her own kin, someone whose influence on the world lasts almost 10,000 years, and none of that means shit compared to a "lowly" dwarf who humbly asks.
@Orovingwen Жыл бұрын
also the three strains. Gimly only ask for ONE and she gave him THREE. Probably for the three times she refused Feanor. I liek to think in her mind she goes "take THAT uncle!" :D
@ismata3274 Жыл бұрын
Well, when picturing feanor asking for hair strands, all I can picture is: "nephew, I require your hair"... In BBC Sherlock's demeanor... In fact, it would be epic if he played him. Yes, iron man's actor is a very good Sherlock adaptation too but his Sherlock is not arrogant enough for feanor. Not that the actor can't.
@grassblock7668 Жыл бұрын
@@ismata3274 Lmfao- in my mind he approached her a bit differenty, something like : "Howdy my beutiful niece, *makes a highly poetic compliment* may I recieve from thou a string of thy golden hair?" "No" "But I-" "No" "Why won't you let me finish I'm trying to-" "Bro I said no, leave me tf alone" "Ugh, fine! Just know thou don't understandeth my genius and might and skill and *keeps praising himself till Galadriel completely leaves his range of sight* "
@ismata3274 Жыл бұрын
@@grassblock7668 😳😳😳🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@Makkaru112 Жыл бұрын
That and Gimli is of the line of Durin the deathless so... ❤
@skatemetrix Жыл бұрын
Feanor had Arda's biggest ego save for Melkor. But Feanor, despite the bloody, genocidal and insane path he took, did something extraordinary: the Children of Illuvatar were going to fight the Dark Lord when before it was the Valar who always fought on their behalf or fought Melkor to prepare Arda for the coming of the Children. Feanor took a stand, for all the wrong reasons, which scuppered Morgoth's plans for at least four centuries and half. Without the arrival of the Noldor then Beleriand would have soon fallen and then Morgoth's legions would swept across Middle Earth and enslaved all Men and Elves- and ultimately corrupted and twisted all Men, perhaps making them as irredeemable as the Orcs. What Feanor did started a growing trend where Elves and Men would directly fight the Dark Lords and their armies often with little assistance from the Ainur and seemingly only one direct intervention (War of Wrath). It reached a point where Men grew so mighty that the Kingdom of Numenor could march upon the second Dark Lord, Sauron, and he knew he could not defeat them militarily. And during Sauron's first defeat the Ainur neither intervened nor assisted the Children of Illuvatar, an alliance of Elves and Men defeated Sauron's armies and destroyed Sauron's body and separated him from his ring- which would take him thousands of years to only partially recover his power. And it was Sauron's second and final defeat, again without any intervention of the Ainur (save for the assistance of Gandalf), which ended the menace of the Dark Lords and ensured that Men would take full dominion of Middle Earth. Without Feanor I think the Elves would not have taken greater responsibility and would have dependent still on the Ainur, and Men would be either enslaved by Morgoth or underdeveloped having shown no evidence of independently fighting the Dark Lords. Feanor produced beautiful objects and inventions- the first theme of Illuvatar. Feanor committed terrible deeds- the second theme of Illuvatar. But Feanor's evil eventually yielded a greater good, and so Feanor was Illuvatar's instrument all along- the third theme of Illuvatar.
@billlosapio7571 Жыл бұрын
Bravo! One of the best comments ever.
@BK5250 Жыл бұрын
I agree whole heartedly, with out Feanor, the elves would have stayed in Valinor, and would have never brought there knowledge, wisdom, and craftsmanship to middle earth.
@aesir1ases64 Жыл бұрын
Thank you, my take is the same! Feanor was but an instrument of Eru Illuvatar to defeat Morgoth, I will even say Feanor is kind like of a "chosen one" that was build from the begin to fullfill a task. It has its parallels to one of my other fav fiction character Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader, where they have immense natural power and greatness, but due their lack of humility, patience and the horrible influences and misfortunes they had, it led them to a destruction path and eventually their downfall, though all those dark deeds they made eventually led to the greater good.
@st.michaelsknight6299 Жыл бұрын
The Ainur, and Eru actually intervene alot. It was eru that gave gandalf the urge to to talk to thorin on the road it was eru again that degined that bilbo would join thorins company it was in turn eru's intention that bilbo would find the ring for two reasons. He would spare gollum, and He would give up the ring willingly. Therefore inturn, it was eru's intervention frodo get the ring. Eru's intervention is all throughout the story
@zoetropo1 Жыл бұрын
Eru placed his Flame Imperishable in Feanor to enable him to create marvels beyond the imagination of the Ainur. Morgoth lusted after the Silmarils because Feanor imbued them with that transcendent creative power which Morgoth had sought since his own beginning outside of time. A light that consumes not, but does not dim.
@Themaxxrad99 Жыл бұрын
I am super bias, I love Fëanor, his story is that of tragedy. To say he did nothing wrong is madness for sure, but through him and his sons he really is a linchpin to the world of Arda. He is wonderfully crafty, loving, like his birth right (Spirit of Fire) a flame of passion would be the best way to describe him for me, an is one of the best cautionary tales of how to not be blinded by your own lust or desires.
@callingcthulhu407 Жыл бұрын
The funniest thing about Feanor to me, is that he's a guy that's built up to be this towering figure of history, a real big-shot that would no doubt change the history of Arda forever... And then he just dies almost as soon as he gets off the boat to Middle-Earth, not a bit closer to actually getting his revenge. As a result, his entire people end up suffering from an Oath made to a guy who died immediately after he swore it and never had to actually deal with it.
@gearzofwar123 Жыл бұрын
This right here lol. He’s a blowhard, not even close to being the greatest he was portrayed as. His brother Fingolfin was 5 times the elf lord he was
@saelind73 Жыл бұрын
I always say that to people when they bring me Ned Stark as the first example to be killed early in the story. I remember the first time I read the Sil. I was loving Feanor, he's still one of my favorites. When they departed from Valinor I was pumped. I couldn't wait for them to arrive in Middle-earth. When he was killed upon arrival, I was; What the hell just happened?! 🙄😒😢lol
@jadonsmith3224 Жыл бұрын
But you gotta admit: his final moments were spectacular. If he had just waited for his reinforcements to catch up, Fëanor probably would have lived and perhaps even taken down a balrog or two.
@nseven1117 Жыл бұрын
@@jadonsmith3224 not as spectacular as fingolfin. feanor only made an oath to fight morgoth and take back his silmarils, fingolfin actually fought and crippled the dark lord
@_Feanor_. 4 ай бұрын
He did die almost immediately but he did change the history of Arda forever. Had he not done what he did, Middle Earth wouldn't be what it became. No Gondolin, no Nagothrond, Doriath might fall way sooner depending how long it would have taken the Valar to take action. No children of Hurin, no story of Turin, no Numenor, possibly no Beren and Luthien, no Palantir in Middle Earth, no Galadriel in Lothlorien. It pretty much all changes with with decision.
@shrutheeshraman1213 Жыл бұрын
I believe his decision to refuse to hand over to the valar goes to the complicated section for a better reason. Melkor spends years whispering to Feanor that the valar would take his silmarils from him, making him more paranoid about them. And when they outright ask him to hand them over, Feanor believes Melkor's words. So, his decision to refuse is definitely not all on him
@grassblock7668 Жыл бұрын
He was so paranoid and felt so attacked that he probably ignored that if he hand them over it would have been for the greater good. He was probably also blinded by rage and arrogance in the heat of the moment and could not think "wait, they don't want them because they're gelous or greedy, they want them because they're trying to save the world from permanent darkness!" Also we have that whole theory made by him in person that substains that if someone breaks open a Silmaril a piece of Fëanor's soul would be broken too and he would have straight up died, which yk kinda understandable of him to not give them, just not wanting to die, but we don't know if that's true either. After all of this a random herald comes in and goes "Ehem, so your dad's dead and your gems are all gone". Yeah my man's mental health went DOWN in those moments lol.
@greenknightable Жыл бұрын
@@grassblock7668 but elves don't die. They go to the house of Mandos, never perishing when they grow weary of the world.
@Shaner9er Жыл бұрын
I concur so I think this video is just allowing the valar to seem so pure and not taking into account that he has been being manipulated for a long time.
@user-xu6ox2rq4p 5 ай бұрын
@@grassblock7668 It isn't like that. He would die because he was an artist above all. And it is stated in Silmarillion that some works only come once in a lifetime. That is why Yavanna cannot just recreate the trees. The trees were her masterpiece. Silmarillion was Faenor's masterpiece. And it would be too much for an artist to destroy his masterpiece. He would lose his will to live and he would die because he does not want to live. Not because of something more complicated.
@grassblock7668 5 ай бұрын
@@user-xu6ox2rq4p That actually makes a lot of sense, and seeing Tolkien (and myself) was an artist I get why he'd go with this idea, very cool. Thx for the insight!
@girliealmighty Жыл бұрын
And he’s back with a bang! I just adore Feanor for all his complications, controversies, and nuances that Tolkien gave him!
@seanhartel5362 Жыл бұрын
Adoring a murderer and sociopath is a bit of a stretch, but hey, to each their own.
@girliealmighty Жыл бұрын
@@seanhartel5362 good thing he’s fictional
@seanhartel5362 Жыл бұрын
@@girliealmighty a very well fleshed out, morally complex character. Ultimately you see where that road leads. That is what is fascinating about Feanor. All his ambition and genius can’t save himself from his lustful vengeance.
@BillyTheBigKid82 Жыл бұрын
@@seanhartel5362 Yeah I was thinking the same thing. I hate characters like Feanor with a passion, be they real or imaginary. The guy is a complete asshat and one of the reasons I dislike fantasy elves in general.
@Gorlim_the_Unhappy Жыл бұрын
Fëanor is an expression of eru illuvitar, just as melkor, bestowed with the greatest gifts and doomed to bring destruction to Arda... Or so it seems. Without his silmaril upon the brow of Eärendil, hope would have failed, Ancalagon would reign uncontested, and the second age never would have come to pass. "And thou, Melkor, wilt discover all the secret thoughts of thy mind, and wilt perceive that they are but a part of the whole and tributary to its glory." Fëanor is a necessary part of the story, he's clearly not a good guy, but without his craft, oath aside, Morgoth would surely have gained his desire for dominion over middle-earth
@tolkienuntangled Жыл бұрын
"Shall prove but mine instrument", is another hugely significant line of Iluvatar's that seems to resonate with Feanor. In the end, he still did what he had to do to fulfil Iluvatar's plan. Just like Sauron and Melkor did.
@Grimlock1979 Жыл бұрын
Feanor taking on several Balrogs in battle was from an earlier period of Tolkien's writing. He imagined them too be far weaker and more numerous at the beginning and they regularly died in battle. He changed his mind later on and they became a lot more powerful and he said there shouldn't have been more than 7.
@christiancividino455 Жыл бұрын
Still impressive he could survive for a while against that many 3-7 when Ungoliant couldn’t withstand them and had to flee. Also, let’s not forget Fingon couldn’t fight even two on one.
@gearzofwar123 Жыл бұрын
@@christiancividino455 I’m pretty sure more than 7 went to rescue Morgoth from Ungoliant, considering Ungoliant literally battered Morgoth easily and Morgoth is way stronger than multiple Balrogs. Which makes Fingolfin fighting and wounding Morgoth 7 times far more impressive than Feanor being killed by Gothmog and a few others. No matter what, Feanor still is the weakest out of everyone in the discussion lol. It’s not stated that he killed any Balrogs either, just held against them.
@grassblock7668 Жыл бұрын
@@gearzofwar123 Well then, I guess we could say: Fingolfin for the wingolfin.
@zoetropo1 Жыл бұрын
There were only 7 balrogs later, because Feanor had killed the hundreds.
@zoetropo1 Жыл бұрын
@@gearzofwar123 Who says there were only a few? The (at least 7) surviving Balrogs ran for their lives when Feanor's sons caught up with them, so that's a measure of comparative strength.
@CarlPottsprofile Жыл бұрын
I think Feanor is a warning of the dangers of Hubris, as is Melkor
@CarlPottsprofile Жыл бұрын
as is Lucifer (which would undoubtedly have influenced Tolkiens Catholicism)
@kevinmartinez3500 Жыл бұрын
Another thing about burning the ships is how important they were. He massacred his fellow kin for these ships and then turns around and burns them, on top of that the ships were a cultural aspect of the telleri and they were as important to the telleri as the silmarillions are to feanor and he without hesitation destroys them. Just seems exceptionally cruel and prideful
@alpfeanor6431 Жыл бұрын
teleri is such a garbage. Even at the war of wrath, they didn't give their ships. Feanor did the right thing there.
@grassblock7668 Жыл бұрын
@@alpfeanor6431 Bro-?!The poor Teleri were minding their business up to that moment,they never ever bugged anyone and just fished and built boats and lived the chillest of lives. In what for them was the most random of days the light goes out (literally,cuz yk the Trees get killed and alll that mess) and they see an angry ass dude probably walking on water towards Middle Earth, while cursing everything and everyone that ever existed and will exist. Understandably they're pretty scared already, then this decked out, angry ass group of Noldor comes to them and asks them to give away the ships they've worked so hard for because "wE sWoRe We WoUlD kIlL aNyOnE tHaT sTanDs BeTwEen Us aNd sHinY rOcKs". To the Teleri, Feanor (I can't do the proper e letter thing, i'll write it wrong every time lol, i apologize) was nothing but a suicidal, egocentric, arrogant, careless and essentialy fucking delusional dude who came there with his whole ass army to "friendly" ask for their ships.The Teleri just didn't want to get in trouble with Melkor (aka the most powerful dude in the deadass universe) who had left them alone so far, nor did they want to get in trouble with the Valar (aka the other most powerful beings in the deadass universe, that also happen to have saved their asses ages prior from that same other guy they were trying not to anger) who were understandably upset by the whole situation. After the Teleri decline the offer Feanor orders his men to take out swords and kill everything that breathes essentially. And it's not even to say it was a fair battle, it was a literal massacre endured by the Teleri from Feanor's hands. Tolkien tells us how the Teleri weren't used to fight so they were armed with crappy bows, while the Noldor had: 1. Feanor himself, basically the greatest Elf ever to exist in terms of skill and iq and beauty and literally everything that doesn't include ethics. 2. The greatest craftsmen and swordsmen and fighters and weapons. I want to clarify I do not wanna hate on Feanor cuz I do like him a lot as well, the point is we can't pretend he was a saint. We are allowed to like complicated anti-heros and even reckless villains (examples that stay in the context are Melkor and Sauron, they are literal demons yet they're both fan favorites) because guess what? It's fiction! None of it is real, heck I don't care if you like a character who's a serial killer as long as it's a character and it is all fiction, i draw the line at people saying fucking Ted Bundy was missunderstood or smth, that's different cuz that's real and he killed real people. We don't have to justify ourselves liking morally gray/straight up wicked characters by glorifing/justifying their actions. We can all like Feanor but we all should be aware that he is no hero and he did bad things.
@krozas5187 Жыл бұрын
@@grassblock7668 Yes, the poor Teleri, that would not even help the Noldor to build their own boats to reach Middle-earth, and thus denying the indirect help to their brothers that were in ME with Morgoth just because they were afraid of defying the Valar. Was it a massacre tho? The book said that the battle was evenly matched until Fingon arrived and joined. As you said Feanor is anything but a saint, but in fact, nobody in the Silmarillion is a saint, except Finarfin.
@shannonmcglumphy5967 Жыл бұрын
@@krozas5187 He killed people for sparklies. Yes, they were 'special' sparklies, but to value them over actual living people is sheer contempt for any claims about holiness from the light of the trees or the hallowing of Varda. Otherwise they're just really pretty sparklies. Why are you invested in trying to justify that kind of behavior? Do you work for DeBeers or something?
@jacobchurchwardtruered116 Жыл бұрын
@@krozas5187 the Teleri had no responsibility to help the Noldor and its not like it's for the greater good either. The Teleri took the Swiss route and tried to stay out of it but got attacked anyways. Feanor did not respect the Teleri at all. No one knew anything about Middle-earth at the time, for all they know the Sindair are all dead. I'm sure it they knew they would have did something but they didn't. And yes, evenly matched until Fingon showed up and tipped the scales and them resulted in a massacre.
@rotwang2000 Жыл бұрын
Feanor has two modes, off and ON !!!! His on-mode is superlative, I don't think there are more "on" characters in the whole of Tolkien's works. He's the Elf that under any other circumstances would have achieved nothing but great things, but he's so intense about doing even simple things that every setback is a huge down to him, again more so than anyone else. He's the victim of his own passion, he puts his soul into his work and then Morgoth. If Morgoth had kicked Feanor's sand castle he would have brained Morgoth on the spot with a plastic beach bucket and rammed his plastic shovel into his throat. If you cross Feanor he goes the full 1000% because Feanor is in some ways a force of nature. Feanor being the most intense elf ever, his reaction is so intense it ends up causing the unthinkable. Feanor can't go half speed or crank down, it's not in his nature and because he can't and above all will not, he's punished for it. And the results are disastrous and Feanor's intensity continues to drive elves long after he died. To call him a villain is silly, though he ends up causing much harm. He's a deeply tragic figure who is victim to the evils of Morgoth. I certainly don't see him as a hero or even an anti-hero. He's the scorned guy who ends up making things worse because there is no "Hold on for a minute" setting in Feanor, it's either nothing or everything. That's why when he's angry he takes it out on all those that he suspects of the even the remotest slight and sees it as deadly betrayal. The one really fatal flaw is that Feanor simply does not have a reverse speed, it's full speed forward or nothing.
@valentinomiller6251 Жыл бұрын
By your logic, then "we are what we were created to be" should apply to all of us, right? "Having no restraint" should apply to all. "The inability to control oneself" should apply to all. While I'm not in the "Feanor is a bad dude" club, I certainly understand those who are. We could apply your logic to real-wolrd figures who are thought "bad guys" by coddling them as "tragic", and maybe that would be true for some, but where would be the accountability?
@rotwang2000 Жыл бұрын
@@valentinomiller6251 Feanor is similar to characters like Denethor. They are all great and noble figures, wise and keen, but they end up blindsiding themselves. Denethor uses the Palantir in an attempt to see something that might help him in the fight with Sauron, but his perception becomes warped. They both have a clear intention, but they lead to tragedy, not the "boohoo, I'm sad" stuff, but horrible things happening tragedy. Tolkien really tries to show us that even the mightiest and wisest cannot see all ends and can make mistakes, and the mightier they are the more consequences their actions have. Feanor is not an alien mind or mystery, he is a driven elf who acts like a bull in a china shop and his deeds cause horrible things to happen. Is he evil, in the moustache twirling sense ? No, I don't think he ever has true evil intent, but his actions do cause gruesome deaths and great sorrow, many centuries after he gets himself killed. Hence a tragic figure in every classic sense of the word or to put it more succinctly, Feanor often acted like a complete dick.
@annafdd Жыл бұрын
I like your characterization of Fëanor not having a “pause and think” setting.
@starkilr101 Жыл бұрын
Welcome back. I’m not the biggest fan of Feanor beyond a couple things, but him keeping the Silmarils remind me of Christopher Tolkien making sure his father’s work is kept intact. Only a little though. And shoutout to Christopher for probably being the best son of the last century
@cgrimes34 Жыл бұрын
Feanor is definitely a morally gray character. Probably one of the few true gray characters, including Sméagol. Oddly enough, my favorite part of his story is his end. The fact that Morgoth felt the need to dispatch Balrogs to take out Feanor speaks to how powerful an Elf he was.
@zoetropo1 Жыл бұрын
It cost Morgoth hundreds of Balrogs, leaving only seven. Had Feanor not raced ahead to prevent them escaping to Angband, the War of Wrath would have failed, even if it had happened, which it wouldn't without the Elves and Men surviving until Earendil. Also, Tolkien had to kill off Feanor, then keep him in Mandos. Had Feanor been released in the Second or Third Age, Sauron would have been mincemeat and the story would have ended early.
@rollingslothmachine3431 Жыл бұрын
A grey character is not one that does good or at least great things as well as evil stuff, like Feanor did. Feanor is evil, selfish and cruel. Nothing he did even remotely redeemed his worst actions. He is important for the history Arda as a whole, but not because he made it a better place willingly. That would be like to say Hitler was not that bad because through his rash decisions the Nazis were defeated way sooner. A morally grey character does some questionable things that may have worse repercussions then anticipated, or they do something pretty bad but chose to do so to save some or many . However, they don't mass murder their own kin or leave them to die in a frozen wasteland without any benefit to even their own goals.
@jacobwalsh1888 7 ай бұрын
You have utterly failed to understand Fëanor. He is not evil. He is, however, passionate to the point of madness. The kinslaying at alqualonde was not a cold act of pure evil. He did ask for the ships first. There was an argument, and then devolved into a fight. Yes, Fëanor is an exemplar of prideful passion and it's dangers, however had he and his silmarils been left alone, he wouldn't have bothered anyone. Calling him pure evil reveals a total lack of grasp of the subject matter.
@user-xu6ox2rq4p 5 ай бұрын
@@jacobwalsh1888 People really underestimate the power of Melkor at the height of his power. Faenor was the focus of Melkor's will. Which corrupted him somewhat and magnified his bad qualities. Even after Morgoth was banished, his will in the world was responsible for men falling to evil. When he tempts you it isn't the same as a human tempting you. His will changes reality and you really need to fight it.
@bienenfluegel Жыл бұрын
After repeatedly getting shown the new trailer for rings of power as advertisement and making my blood curdle, it’s such a joy to watch something actually appreciating Tolkiens work!
@BillyTheBigKid82 Жыл бұрын
That piece of crap show will be a huge shitshow for sure. I kinda knew this before the trailers, I knew they will destroy the show with piss poor casting and unforgivable changes.
@FrodoACM Жыл бұрын
Great video! Though, I would like to notice that you saying that Feanor was just "sad" after Finwe's death is a big understatement, it is said that “His father was dearer to him than the Light of Valinor or the peerless works of his own hands: and who among sons, of Elves or Men, have held their fathers of greater worth?”, so I assume his wrath for his father's death was even more of a driving force than the theft of his works. Anyway, thanks for the great video and I am looking forward to your video on Fingolfin!
@keithbass1094 Жыл бұрын
This was well worth the wait! Feanor was so complicated it was always a love him hate him relationship. The “He’s complicated” helped put some perspective on his character. Can’t wait for Fingolfin next week!
@mypeeps1965 Жыл бұрын
Boy, you have come back strong! I think Eru punished Feanor for his arrogance, lack of humility/empathy for anyone. Feanor had to lose everything before he could understand what he had. I believe he repents and helps in the last battle before all things are remade. I find it interesting that both Turin and Feanor are said to have major roles for the side of good in the Dagor Dagorath. Welcome back Dave!
@tolkienuntangled Жыл бұрын
Thanks! Very good point about Feanor and Turin coming back for the Dagor Dagorath.
@Makkaru112 Жыл бұрын
@@tolkienuntangled and i recall there was a special someone or two buried below aman under the sands of this what I call a beach gif lack of better term at the moment and they were kept pristine. And they too rose up and joined the battle. This was mentioned a bit even way before Dagor Dagorath too and Galadriel’s hair is what is used to revive the two trees as it’s described in the book this mountain breaks which basically gives the light of these trees to go on full blast!! Before the battle started or partway through. Amazingness! ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
@theelevatedone2536 Жыл бұрын
I remember when I first read the Silmarillion, Feanor became such an instant favorite of mine that when he started doing all those bad things I blamed Tolkien for writing him that way. 😅😭 He was such a like able character at first that later on, I was like, “What did you to my boi????”
@valentinomiller6251 Жыл бұрын
REal question: what has Feanor done to be so "likeable"?
@theelevatedone2536 Жыл бұрын
@@valentinomiller6251 Well, he created the famous Feanorian Tengwar, the lamps, the Palantiri, and the Silmarils. Overall, he was a very skilled and talented craftsman, but was written to be arrogant and hot-headed. :(
@valentinomiller6251 Жыл бұрын
@@theelevatedone2536 you've listed his achievements, but again, what has he done to be likeable? One can craft and create, but having done those deeds doesn't, as a result, make one likeable. Throughout Feanor's story, there really isn't any listed acts of kindness or heroism that makes him likeable. He's haughty, ill-tempered and irrational -- generally very UNlikeable qualities?
@shawnnorton2218 Жыл бұрын
@@valentinomiller6251 I kind of like him already! 😂😂 I admit I don’t read a lot, so trying to re read the Lord of the Rings, eventually I’ll get to the simils~ so don’t get too hot and heavy about the comment, but he sounds interesting and I like that!
@valentinomiller6251 Жыл бұрын
@@shawnnorton2218 No doubt he's interesting, but so are Melkor and Sauron and Glaurung lol. Almost EVERY character, except Hobbits, is interesting in Tolkien's world.
@CaveMan72 Жыл бұрын
I'm so glad you're back, I've been patiently awaiting your return. I follow several Tolkien channels but you are my favorite. If you were to do an audio book, I'd pay for that. Keep up your passion in life, let it burn and shine like the star of Earendil
@tolkienuntangled Жыл бұрын
Thanks so much! I'm really glad you enjoy the channel.
@lukeblundell5610 Жыл бұрын
Fëanor is just a 'real' pinnacle / operating at the extremes character. Most of his notable works resulted in a scarred world... But some were invaluable and improved the world in ways no other character did. As an Elf he knew who he was, a fire in Arda; skilled, focused, disciplined and principled. ... And just as fire cooks food and brings light, it can be uncontrollable and destructive too.
@eugenemonti5755 Жыл бұрын
To summarise the Sillmarion Everyone in Eä: Fëanor NO Fëanor: Fëanor YES Then everybody suffers
@valentinomiller6251 Жыл бұрын
Precisely, which is why I don't understand why some think him a hero. Surely, he's the ultimate of all attributes, it seems, but that doesn't make one a hero.
@annafdd Жыл бұрын
@@valentinomiller6251 oh, he’s not a hero. Fingon is a hero. Still a murderer, though.
@christiancividino455 Жыл бұрын
He still stirred the hearts of the Noldor so yeah they did say yes initially. Even Galadriel’s heart was stirred to leave.
@matthewclark7955 Жыл бұрын
😂 100%
@MrVictor1227 Жыл бұрын
@@valentinomiller6251 He is cool. Who cares if he is not a hero
@keyboarddancers7751 Жыл бұрын
4:56 I think it should be made clear that the Quenya lingusitic symbol *'Þ'* is not a P and is represented or voiced in 'English' as an S or TH. I still can't understand why the producers of the forthcoming Tolkien series on Amazon didn't think to consult with and indeed directly employ ANY of the numerous excellent KZfaq Tolkien Loregivers such as *Tolkien Untangled* - truly a missed opportunity.
@maxxor-overworldhero6730 Жыл бұрын
Well, they had Shippey, and they kicked him to the curb because he kept challenging their mangling of the lore. Amazon - or as I like to call them nowadays Annatar - only wants shills and people who fall into line with their plans.
@TrangDB9 Жыл бұрын
They fired Shippy instead
@Harpyr1031 Жыл бұрын
Glad to see you back. I’ve been looking forward to new content. I also had a hunch it was Fëanor. He is definitely one complicated character.
@chrisschmalhofer4348 Жыл бұрын
We don’t speak of David of Many Colors…
@christiancividino455 Жыл бұрын
I never understood the reasoning of the changing power level of Balrogs being a big deal because either way Fëanor fought in a battle beyond winning. Either he fought a thousand weak ones or 3-7 Maia Balrogs. It’s not like Tolkien would have went back and said Fëanor didn’t fight any Balrogs. It’s a great scene because it puts a hard limit on the Noldor advancement and attempted victory over Morgoth. Seeing their greatest though flawed die must have given the Noldor pause. And we see this happen because the Noldor focus on realm building and containing Morgoth rather than another direct assault. There’s a reason Balrogs are called an elf bane.
@LeRoiDuFresne Жыл бұрын
Elf bane
@aesir1ases64 Жыл бұрын
The biggest proof of Balrog's power level is that Morgoth calls upon them to rescue him from Ungoliant. Feanor fighting multiple Balrogs at the same time is the same feat that Fingolfin had of fighting the weakened Dark Lord alone.
@hodgrix Жыл бұрын
"It may be that I can unlock my jewels, but ... if I must break them, I shall break my heart" lmfao I love the way you said that. Feanor is a drama queen lol. So nice to have you back Dave!! Your vids are so fun!! Can't wait for Fingolfin and the rest of your Silmarillion vids! They really help me read through it and understand nuances of the text.
@tolkienuntangled Жыл бұрын
Thanks! I'm really glad you enjoy the videos.
@zoetropo1 Жыл бұрын
Aule understands better than mortal man can.
@lordofthehouseofstormcrows8615 Жыл бұрын
Well met RD! I've missed ya my guy. Feanor was the ultimate anti-hero. Gothmog got him, but then ECTHELION smashed Gothmog. Keep up the greaT work! Also, it speaks volumes that he wanted some of Galadriels hair and she said no, but then gave Gimli 3 strands...that tells me everything about this elf.
@oldkingspook Жыл бұрын
Good to see you back, Rainbow Dave, I've missed your videos. I'm not sure how I feel about Feanor. He's an unparalleled genius and craftsman (craftself? XD), but led his sons and people into peril. I've seen in someone I would loosely term a friend how unchecked genius can spiral into paranoia and madness. Melkor couldn't have picked a better elf to head the destruction of the Noldor.
@williethenerfherder2193 Жыл бұрын
Morgoth killed his father, and stole a part of his soul as well as the lifeblood of the spirit trees. I'd argue he was partially in the right, and his anger at the Valar's inaction was justified.
@CarolinaPine Жыл бұрын
Great video. Unfortunately Feanor is more a jerk than a hero, and he is indeed complicated. He's not my favorite elf, but I love learning more about him - he is fascinating.
@valentinomiller6251 Жыл бұрын
I wholly agree
@donpula6349 Жыл бұрын
Me too...
@joemck74 Жыл бұрын
I always thought that Galadriel giving Gimli her hair was frakkin hilarious, since arguably if she had given it to Feanor when he asked then he might not have made the Silmarils, and without the Silmarils much of the history of arda just wouldn't have happened or would at least been very different.
@ismata3274 Жыл бұрын
That boy wasn't unrulr because of silmarils. Its just silmarils s beauty made his heart more visible. If she had given her hair, no doubt the casing he would end up making for the holy light from those strands would be marvellous too. Who can assume people and him too won't be just as enamoured with the resulting lightcase? And the attraction of silmarils was the living light in them. And the refractions of the light in it. Thus, making the silmarils just as property of valar (most definitely at the least varda and yavanna, as it's their joint creations fruit in silmarils) as it is feanors. He had no right to refrain from giving back the light to revive the two trees back to the valie that created it in the first place. Granted, to give it back, he would have to destroy his creation. And valar saw fit that it's not a boundary that they're willing to cross, no matter the cost to all involved. Feanor didn't see fit that he should be just as respectful to property (and artistic, and to life damn it, trees were dying there! ehem.... aaanyways) rights as he was shown/given sadly. Not a fast learner in that regard.
@zoetropo1 Жыл бұрын
@@ismata3274 Recall that the trees drew their sustenance from the earth, so that when the trees' roots were poisoned, they died, and their light died. Whereas the Silmarils were indestructible and regenerated light without an external power source. Feanor's work transcended the Laws of Thermodynamics, which weary even the Valar.
@ismata3274 Жыл бұрын
@@zoetropo1 Tolkien verse....... Laws of thermodynamics 😳😳😳
@csehszlovakze Жыл бұрын
he's back!
@misterp4865 Жыл бұрын
Fantastic video! Great job! Imagine Feanor and Fingolfin taking on Morgoth together. Maybe they would have won!
@Makkaru112 Жыл бұрын
I could be wrong but I recall there was an exact passage about he had a vision of a coming darkness to Valinor which led to him wanting to creat something. It was supposed to be Galadriel’s hair to make the relic but he created the Silmarils instead, the said prophetic vision came to pass. Amazing stuff. ❤️❤️❤️❤️
@Makkaru112 Жыл бұрын
❤️❤️❤️❤️
@alanmike6883 Жыл бұрын
Will you ever do one on the differences between the relationship of faramir, Boromor and denathor one day and the complex family dynamic?
@tolkienuntangled Жыл бұрын
Good idea. Maybe in the future.
@chrisschmalhofer4348 Жыл бұрын
I’m gonna cross the streams a bit with this comment, but the idea of being great but terrible pops up from time to time and other stories as well. If I remember correctly, Harry Potter is told something very similar when he first gets his wand. Because, of course, the twin his wand went to Voldemort.
@mlebrooks Жыл бұрын
Yeah and maybe the infinity stones were inspired by Feanor.
@GulienIthilmir Жыл бұрын
Another excellent video. And about one of my favourite Silmarillion elves - I cannot WAIT for the next one, Fingolfin is my all-time favourite Silmarillion characterand I'm absolutely delighted that you decided to make his character's analysis.
@tolkienuntangled Жыл бұрын
Thanks! Fingolfin is one of my top favourite elves ever!
@rsbcjester Жыл бұрын
Dude, we understand life happens. Or at least hopefully most of us do. Happy to have your content back though. By far my favorite Tolkien channel
@tolkienuntangled Жыл бұрын
Thank you!
@CaveMan72 Жыл бұрын
I wonder if the crystalline housing of the silmarils wasn't in fact a piece of Fëanor's soul, considering the art of creation in Tolkien's works, as well as the comment "and I shall be slain" I am a craftsman and its only rhe pieces that hold my soul that I would say that about
@tolkienuntangled Жыл бұрын
That's a very interesting point!
@saelind73 Жыл бұрын
"For Fëanor was made the mightiest in all parts of body and mind: in valour, in endurance, in beauty, in understanding, in skill, in strength and subtlety alike: of all the Children of Ilúvatar, and a bright flame was in him." It absolutely is. The guy was a genius. Think of someone like Leonardo but turned up to 11, and ask him to destroy the masterpiece of his life, where he has put all his passion, the might of his skills and mind, and the beauty of his soul. Not gonna happen. He would rather die.
@TheCounterCulture2023 Жыл бұрын
So glad you're back Dave, by far my favourite Tolkien KZfaqr!
@freddaniel5099 Жыл бұрын
Great discussion on a character that is created to generate discussion! I don't think all "tick marks" carry equal weight. Some deeds are much worse than others and a few are better. The kin slaying and oath making are just aweful. Unforgivable? Something to ponder perhaps!
@tolkienuntangled Жыл бұрын
That's a very good point. Not all the entries carry equal weight. Creating lamps is not equal to murdering Teleri
@zoetropo1 Жыл бұрын
@@tolkienuntangled But Olwe's Teleri first murdered Feanor's followers. That's how Tolkien relates the events.
@mootynedge Жыл бұрын
So happy you're back, currently making my way through all your playlists again. Happy we've got some new content.
@thehighguarduk4820 Жыл бұрын
Awesome video, really well explained and discussed. Feanor is a fascinating character, a deeply flawed personality but undoubtedly brilliant in skill and genius. Yet for all his genius he had not wisdom or humility and near the end of his life a profound lack of empathy for anyone but himself, any other needs of anyone else were second to his own even those of his family. How great he was made, how wonderous his creations and how little he chose to become. Great video as always!👍😁😎
@zoetropo1 Жыл бұрын
Had Feanor not rushed across sea and land to fight those Orcs and Balrogs, all our favourite characters would have died or never been born. Had he not made his sons swear the Oath, the Silmarils would not be in Sky, Earth and Sea. Give the creator of the Palantiri credit for foresight.
@ChallengeIdeas Жыл бұрын
@@zoetropo1 By that reasoning, Gollum was not only right but a downright visionary and a great man, because had he not murdered his cousin, the One Ring wouldn't have been destroyed. But nobody gives him "credit for foresight", and for good reason.
@Crafty_Spirit Жыл бұрын
Melkor convinced several Noldor to forge weapons and they somehow all thought that they had exclusive knowledge, like they didn't know others were also creating swords... the revelation must have been kind of awkward how well they were prepared for war the moment the Noldor chose to commit to exodus
@tolkienuntangled Жыл бұрын
Very true!
@Enerdhil Жыл бұрын
It is amazing that Melkor actually helped the Noldor to make weapons to kill his orcs and Balrogs better. Talk about helping your enemy.
@Crafty_Spirit Жыл бұрын
@@Enerdhil Yeah, but imagine the moment... "Hold on, he also told you how to make swords? I felt so special" xD
@Enerdhil Жыл бұрын
@@Crafty_Spirit I am sure Melkor's swords had dull blades, but Fëanor perfected a blade-sharpening technique that would be used by all Elves going forward. The tips of the swords were probably rounded to.😂
@thethirdrichard7787 Жыл бұрын
I'm quite the Feanorian myself... I love exploring the nuances of his story and the story of his sons. I really liked this video. Other videos tend to get my ire up because there seems to be no attempts to understand him. Question: I have thought for a long time that Curufin was the 5th son? Did I miss something? Caranthir I think is the 4th. It probably doesn't matter but it stood out to me and wondered if I've been wrong this whole time Lol. I write fanfiction and do my best to stick close to the silm canon and my stories involve the sons of feanor.
@tolkienuntangled Жыл бұрын
Yeah you're absolutely right. In the Silmarillion, Curufin is the fifth son not the fourth. I was taking the info for that segment from the People's of Middle-earth, and I think in that, he is described as the fourth son, but I don't have my copy on hand right now, and it's possible I just misread it. Either way, you're right, in the published Silmarillion Caranthir is the fourth son, Curufin is the fifth.
@tolkienuntangled Жыл бұрын
I just looked it up - in the People's of Middle-earth, we're told Curufin is the fourth son, in the published Silmarillion he's the fifth. So I guess it's one of those things where the reader has to decide for themself.
@annafdd Жыл бұрын
@@tolkienuntangled it’s another instance of Tolkien changing his mind. That’s part of the fun! Pick the canon you prefer! ;-)
@thethirdrichard7787 Жыл бұрын
Okay cool lol Thank you for looking it up! Yeah Tolkien changed his mind a lot about the sons... Lol
@Makkaru112 Жыл бұрын
@@annafdd And interestingly through the line of one of the last sons that wanted nothing to do with Fëanor and crew which I believe was Celebrimbor himself and that connects to Celeborn too I believe. Both C&G were around through ALL of this. Crazy huh? ❤️❤️✨❤️✨❤️✨❤️❤️ And the Valar or others actually gave him permission to hide away and live with Finrod! ❤️❤️✨❤️✨❤️✨❤️❤️
@jameswhite8840 Жыл бұрын
So happy you’re back with more videos!
@kongsied4279 Жыл бұрын
Hey @Tolkien Untangled, I'm gonna share something with my fellow nerdy bros, a testament to Tolkiens Genius. I am from East Baltimore, MD. Raised in one of the most dangerous neighborhoods on the planet, im blessed still have my state job, but I do not judge anyone considering I once was on the other side, I've been around kingpins, drug lords, goons, and gangsters. When I tell you Féanor reminds me, well these gangsters and Drug Lords, remind me so much of Fëanor, im talking 15 years of being in the streets, legendary street dudes, some dangerous, some businessman turned entrepreneurs. It's almost like these dudes read the Silmarillion. Fëanors dialog, when he threatens cingulin, that was something straight out of the streets," My sword is sharper than your tongue " how Fëanor dressed, his obsession with jewelry, his arrogance. Fingoulfin, when he calls out Morgoth, I've seen dudes pull up on big shots, call them out knowing what these situations, was cause. I've seen dudes similar to glauron, and Morgoth, it use to scare me reading Tolkien's work, it's timeless. Not to start a fan war, Fist of The North Star IMO is the Godfather of anime, of course Dragon Ball Z is my first love, but never have I seen words put on paper, the way Tolkien does. I have gotten older guys I look up to, to read this mans work. Shits awesome, btw I'm thinking about starting a channel, like I know how to tell these stories from a street perspective, " The hood way if you guys are interested " I have insnared folks that don't do nerdy, to do nerdy
@MrEd1024 Жыл бұрын
I knew you would pull through, David of many colors. Beautiful as per usual, Thank you for your service.
@kylemoore687 Жыл бұрын
So glad you're back brother, another fantastic video as always.
@sayftaleb6020 Жыл бұрын
thank you for the great video, so much passion was put into it, amazing.
@mlebrooks Жыл бұрын
So maybe Tolkien didn't have a psychology background but he is describing a malignant narcissist really well. It's someone who has diminished empathy,, someone who views their children as extensions of themselves and not individuals (blurry boundaries), someone who overreacts to criticism or even just a difference of opinion, someone who feels entitled to the personal property of others (stealing the ships because he felt like if he wants the ships he gets the ships), someone who is superficially charming or charismatic, etc. I almost wonder if this should have been a crossover video with "live abuse free" or Dr. Ramani or Dr. Grande etc. "Live abuse free" has a video titled "When the narcissist leaves you stranded." Anyway, there is a NPD pattern and Tolkien nailed it perfectly. Narcissists don't really love and don't really trust. They have a mask of goodness and confidence that they present to the world but inside they are the opposite. A good leader and confident leader would trust in their powers of persuasion to build rapport to borrow the ships. When waters got choppy they would take a couple boats onward to test the plan and leave some behind so nobody was stranded and ferry people across and then make sure the boats were returned. He didn't burn them out of spite... He burned the ships out of insecurity and control. He didn't trust people to follow his leadership willingly he thought he had to remove all alternatives. Malignant narcissists can do terrible things in the world because they confuse people in trying to work out their motives. I'm sure he tried to "lovebomb" Galadriel but she knew it was superficial whereas Gimli actually just held her in high regard. Feanor wanted her hair to use as ammunition. It isn't a balance sheet of good deeds vs. evil deeds. He's trying to get "supply" and that's something normal people don't understand. We can't interpret him like a normal complicated person he has a personality disorder so good deeds are done to get supply and bad deeds are done to get supply. He values the supply not the good or bad that will result in the world.
@amberdawn2296 Жыл бұрын
I am so happy to see you Rainbow Dave! Been waiting avidly for the next video. Almost an hour long too! Thank you :)
@Makkaru112 Жыл бұрын
The whole quote when Fëanor went against Melkor about the Silmarils and other things literally was a show stopper with all the exact words he used. Like mic drop!
@AdamNRose Жыл бұрын
It's about time TU!!!! I enjoy all your videos. Thanks for the great work!!!
@CarlPottsprofile Жыл бұрын
He doesn't have a scrap of humilty he's Fëanor
@chaiwarrior111 Жыл бұрын
Yay! Will be watching this later tonight! Thanks for some more awesome content, DoMC.
@karlarden6260 Жыл бұрын
Happy Friday, Rainbow Dave! Stay groovy. So glad your back with a great video!
@jayt9608 Жыл бұрын
I have a few thoughts, and I will elucidate on the three that I consider primary. 1) I believe that there is a decision that Feanor makes that you touched on, but did not actually give due weight. Feanor intentionally neglected his duties as the high king by choosing to run far ahead of his troops. This resulted in the second death of a high king in less than a year leaving the political situation very tenuous. Especially as the next high king is a prisoner of war for several years and upon returning abdicated the position. This reduces the high king to a mere figurehead until the late second age when all the Noldor are united under Gil-Galad after the fall of Eregion. In truth, during the first age the Noldor are divided into numerous independent kingdoms with the high king controlling only one of them. The sons of Feanor establish at least three, the high king has one, two of the brothers of Galadriel share one, and Gondolin and Nargathrond are established in secret. Thus the full might of the Noldor is spread across a minimum of seven kingdoms with no one actually controlling enough of the population or land to make war against Morgoth. The death of Feanor reduces the Noldor fighting a war conducted by committee with the best and most subtle minded of them slain. To me, there is no decision worse than this foolhardy pursuit of Morgoth, even the burning of his son by mistake, other than the swearing of the foul Oath that brought them to this point. 2) I do not know that I entirely agree that the second swearing of the Oath by his sons was entirely his fault or even an objectively bad decision. They already swore the Path once in place where it was far more damaging and we can see in the last conversation between Maglor and Maedhros that they feel compelled by the first swearing with no reference to the second. It may be that the second swearing is actually a means of attempting to protect his sons from a worse fate that trying to break an Oath made invoking Manwë, Varda, and Illuvitar would bring. The damage from the first Oath is done and they are under the Doom of the Valar for it. Even though he sees the futility of it, he may deem it better to bind them to it afresh than to encourage them to break it, especially as it is likely that some of them, Curufin especially, might actually wreak more havoc if unbound. I am not saying that it was right, but that it might have been the lesser of two evils by that point. 3) It is entirely possible that had Finwë been content early on with Feanor as his only son, Feanor not being in a position to contest his father's will, that Morgoth would not have found the purchase of Feanor's antipathy for his half-brothers to bend his ear. The Noldor would have been united under a single banner, and likely Feanor would not have been so reckless and would have had broader support among the Noldor and others for his quest from Valinor. Sauron likely would have never been able to forge the Ruling Ring because no rings of power would have been created in the first place, and doubtless the elves would have been in a far stronger position against Morgoth and Sauron in all three ages. Granted, we would not have had the great heroes that we love, but we would have had others that we would have loved as much.
@fran5594 Жыл бұрын
Great video as always Dave! Can’t wait for the Fingolfin deep dive!
@MellowMutts270 Жыл бұрын
You have no idea how excited I am! For the past week I have been wondering when a new video would be released! You definitely didn’t disappoint and this was well worth the wait. Thanks Rainbow Dave!
@tolkienuntangled Жыл бұрын
Thank you! I'm really glad you enjoyed it.
@Fancy_Lebowski Жыл бұрын
Speaking of Fingolfin at the end, I believe "Chadliest Elf" best describes him.
@michaellovecat Жыл бұрын
Welcome back, mystical colors, I am eagerly excited for these 2 videos you've made, just didn't have the time to watch when they were recommended to me
@alanmike6883 Жыл бұрын
As soon as I charge this my phone up, I can't wait to watch this Dave 👍👍
@wrathandflame3987 Жыл бұрын
Man unbelievably good analysis. I laughed so hard through it all and at the end I got literally chills where you talked about the lines of Fingolfin and Finarfin. Really puts into perspective their contribution to the legacy of the First Born and in extesion of the Second Born
@hanyolo4131 Жыл бұрын
Thank you. Been craving new content!
@Durins_Babe Жыл бұрын
There it is friends !! The wait was definitely worth, as always. ❤️
@veronicadavanzo2064 Жыл бұрын
Yes! He’s back! And with almost an hour of video on one of my favorite characters!
@mpalfadel2008 Жыл бұрын
Glad to have you back
@astridchladek1927 Жыл бұрын
Finally! Finally! Long anticipated and utterly enjoyed! The next Tolkien untangled video! Thanks! ☺️☺️☺️
@gunders85 Жыл бұрын
Great to see you back Mr. Dave :)
@ellengoodman1297 Жыл бұрын
Yay!!! So glad you’re back and hope you’re doing well. The new intro is awesome!!!
@herbthompson8937 Жыл бұрын
Great to have you back!!!!
@dazedsam Жыл бұрын
can't wait to listen to this! keep up the good work 👌🏼
@justinpiliste5157 Жыл бұрын
Welcome back man my drive home from work on Fridays is not the same without listening to you
@javarnhewitt9336 Жыл бұрын
I love this new intro, so finally excited for a new video keep it up my dude ❤️
@Stratocumulus25 Жыл бұрын
Welcome Back !! Love the new intro !! Looking forward to your future installments.
@tolkienuntangled Жыл бұрын
Thanks!
@DarkAngel69604 Жыл бұрын
Well done! This was very enjoyable to listen to. Also loved the little animated intro.
@tolkienuntangled Жыл бұрын
Thank you!
@ghostdreamer7272 Жыл бұрын
I heard a theory that the Silmarils are Three because Feanor created them to represent himself, his mother Miriel, and his father Finwe, all together and happy in harmony with the light of life.
@zenocrate4040 9 ай бұрын
I posted another comment and somehow forgot to say: awesome work as usual! Thank you for bringing this Fingolfin-fan so much joy. It is difficult to feel affection for Feanor but it is impossible to not be drawn to him.
@rosie_gamgee Жыл бұрын
Welcome back! I'm a new subscriber so I didn't realize you were gone, but all your videos that I've seen have been grand so I look forward to seeing more soon 😊
@dannyfiumano6320 Жыл бұрын
Ah, how good it is to hear that wonderfully whimsical voice once again. Welcome back Rainbow Dave, we missed 'ye!
@badsitvfx652 Жыл бұрын
Thank god you’re back!!!
@justinah7400 Жыл бұрын
Great job Dave!
@theBeags Жыл бұрын
When I go on road trips I listen to your videos. I love your channel!
@tolkienuntangled Жыл бұрын
Thanks!
@Whowascooley Жыл бұрын
Great video as always Dave of Many Colors. Welcome back, you have been missed!😁
@hazeldavis3176 6 ай бұрын
This channel is amazing. Thanks for the vid!
@uhnanomous Жыл бұрын
Damn man, super informative as always! I'm so proud of your channel growth! I remember when you first started! Way to go man, keep up the great work!! I can't wait for more from you!
@tolkienuntangled Жыл бұрын
Thanks so much! It's only possible because of viewers like yourself.
@cody1570 Жыл бұрын
The funniest part of all middle earth lore? It was fought over 3 jewels that didnt have any magical properties they were just perfect
@staiton3889 Жыл бұрын
This is one of the greatest videos you’ve done so far. I loved it. Thanks for the really long video, I love your channel.
@tolkienuntangled Жыл бұрын
Thanks! I'm really glad you enjoy the channel.
@staiton3889 Жыл бұрын
@@tolkienuntangled can you please set up a Patreon page? I need to help support this channel! I’m subscribed to about 10 of the biggest Tolkien scholar channels on YT and you are by far the best! I adore your content and you take it to the next level by making EVERY SINGLE EPISODE an epic story! I have to help the channel.
@Charlie.a Жыл бұрын
Thank you for all your hard work.
@vindictivemage Жыл бұрын
hell yea, welcome back mate!!!
@joshwells3782 Жыл бұрын
Best tolkien channel everrrrrrr
@DHTC888 Жыл бұрын
RIGHT!!!
@tolkienuntangled Жыл бұрын
Thanks!
@tglrod Жыл бұрын
Yeah! It a great day as we have a new video from your channel ❤️
@WhoIsCalli Жыл бұрын
I really enjoyed this, thanks 👍
@ifeelfree123 Жыл бұрын
Awesome...can't wait for next one
@icantthinkofafunname Жыл бұрын
You are easily the best Tolkien KZfaq channel. Keep up the great work
@tolkienuntangled Жыл бұрын
Thanks! I'm glad you enjoy the channel.
Жыл бұрын
Thank you ! I always thought Feanor was overstretched. Never a tender moment. You really captured his flaws.
@cuitaro Жыл бұрын
Hey David of Many Colours! Nice to see you back with that new awesome intro! Any thoughts on the recent trailer released for The Rings of Power?
@chrisschmalhofer4348 Жыл бұрын
We don’t talk of David of Many Colors…
@tolkienuntangled Жыл бұрын
Thanks! I was considering doing a video about the new trailer, but so many other people will have done the same, so I'll probably wait until September to talk about the show. However, I did think the trailer was massively better than the last one we saw, and there were a few things I liked and a few that I didn't. Generally, I thought the visuals look great. The art department seems to have done a good job, and I also like that there's a focus on songs and singing, and I suppose I could eventually come around to having Harfoots in the Second Age (although I'm not there yet). Also I was pleased to see a lot of armour that wasn't plate armour, and I am excited to see what they're going to do with the story and characters. But there are still a good number of red flags and things that seem entirely unTolkien. It frustrated me a lot that we saw the shot of the meteorite, and then the word 'Based on Tolkien's writings' flashed up immediately after. A person traveling by meteor is utterly unheard of in Tolkien's Legendarium, and it really doesn't seem to make any sense. I also didn't like the shot of Galadriel stabbing her sword into the ground. This is such a common trope in 21st century fantasy and I guess it's meant to look cool, but a sword's functionality is defined by the sharpness of its blade, and no actual sword wielder would ever intentionally damage their blade by stabbing it into stony icy ground. Its a bit of a nitpick but Tolkien's Galadriel would respect a crafted weapon much more than that. It's just another thing that screams generic rather than absolutely unique like the source material that it should at least be inspired by. Also, I have no idea what Galadriel is talking about when she says 'you've not seen what I've seen.' However, for me, the biggest problem, which makes me think the whole show can't possibly be any better than sort of okay, is the time compression. The fact that Celebrimbor and Isildur are co-existing at the same time, and the whole story is taking place in the span of one mortal's lifetime, is a horrendous creative choice, and it doesn't matter how they try to justify it, it's fundamentally wrong. By compressing 3441 years into a single lifetime they're robbing the elves of their agelessness, they're robbing Numenoreans of their complexity, and they're completely ignoring the Dark Years, where Sauron ruled southern Middle-earth for over a thousand years. I really do believe that any and all criticisms of the show will pale in significance next to to the terrible (and completely unnecessary) time compression. It strikes me as cowardly writing, and I think the showrunners have already derailed the entire project with it. I'm trying to stay hopeful, but the time compression just sounds awful to me.
@impeachbiden2398 Жыл бұрын
@@tolkienuntangled I think whenever great value brand Galadriel states that, it then cuts to a scene of blood filled waters filled with carcasses of war. I think she was possibly referencing the first kin slaying? It still makes no logical sense for her to say that to Elrond…the third kin slaying stripped so much from him. It seems rather Un-Tolkien to have these two iconic Elven leaders to speak to each other the way they did in the trailer. Elrond has this ability of foresight, yet cannot foresee that speaking to his mother in law in such a manner will end up in his inevitable doom haha. Did you notice the possible oath of Fëanor coming to screen? There was a quick scene of a darkened night sky, filled with stars above, and what appears to be the sons of Fëanor drawing their swords and joining in. Thank you for the lengthy video this wonderful Friday, Dave. We all appreciate you and your love for Tolkien.
@CarolinaPine Жыл бұрын
@@tolkienuntangled agree - the time compression is the worst. An excuse is having to hire more actors to play mortals. Really? With their budget, that shouldn't be a problem. Or, some of the actors could play multiple parts, like in the 1960s Gothic soap opera, Dark Shadows.
@Enerdhil Жыл бұрын
@@tolkienuntangled Thanks for this post. It's as good as a video.👍😁
@johnmclain5899 Жыл бұрын
Hi, just want to say thanks a lot for those ALL your Silmarillion videos I enjoy them a lot Im watching them for the 3rd time when I want to remind myself of the story . your the best , Thanks again :)
@tolkienuntangled Жыл бұрын
Thanks, I'm really glad you enjoy them!
@fohat50 Жыл бұрын
really great story telling dude, thank you
@lbshitkkers Жыл бұрын
Not sure if you read comments but I’d be curious to hear your thoughts on why I think the valar are at the very least guilty of extreme negligence and dereliction in duty: 1. Manwe releasing melkor, I understand the points you in the video, my counter points are that he is supposed to be the wisest of the valar but yet he has no knowledge of evil? That certainly seems to be a glaring hole in his wisdom. I also don’t believe he tried to make amends with the house of finwe and the noldor considering he is ultimately responsible for the death of finwe, the theft of the silmarils and the destruction of the two trees. I’d also argue that ignorance of evil isn’t a viable excuse for some one as powerful as manwe. Not only this but we don’t see him do anything to rectify his mistake of releasing melkor besides sending his eagles out a couple times. 2. The doom of mandos: I wholeheartedly agree that the kinslaying was utterly wrong and evil and the noldor that knowingly participated in it deserved to be punished, but there were many who didn’t participate in it or unwittingly participated and yet they were cursed all the same, but yet they never levelled any such curse on melkor who caused all of this 3. The abandonment of the elves still living In middle earth: after morgoth fled the undying lands he went to middle earth where the valar knew elves were still living, they couldn’t even give them a warning about his arrival and left them to fend for themselves. 4. Not a single valar except melkor were there to greet the awakening of men: the valar were to be supposed to be shepards to the children of illuvatar but yet they completely abandoned men to morgoth I could go on but I think I illustrated my point fairly clearly
@mrs.manrique7411 Жыл бұрын
Point 1-4: The Valar are supposed to be negligent in the affairs of middle earth. The kin slaying would have cemented the fact that they shouldn’t have allowed any elves to arrive in Valinor at all in the first place. Point 2: Mandos only doomed those who did not return physically (or repent physically) to Valinor. We know this doom did not stop Galadriel from being given passage back home after the Third Age was ended. As to Manwes wisdom… lol. I guess Tolkien wrote in that Manwe did not always commune with Illuvatar which is why he did not always make precautionary decisions. Or perhaps it was true that Melkor could repent in the moment that he chose to feign it instead. Maybe there was a true possibility of returned greatness to Melkor… 🤔
@lbshitkkers Жыл бұрын
@@mrs.manrique7411 that’s the thing, they weren’t negligent, melkor is a valar, therefore I believe he should be the valars responsibility, which they shirked until the last possible moment. My point is, he doomed the noldor but didn’t issue any such doom to melkor who caused the whole thing. Even if manwe truly believed that melkor could be returned to greatness, the death of the trees, the murder of finwe and the theft of the silmarils should have left him to no doubt that melkor unrepentantly evil and he still chose to do nothing
@tolkienuntangled Жыл бұрын
These are good points, although I will still try and defend the Valar. 1. In regards to Manwë, if he isn't capable of understanding evil then he isn't free to have done anything differently. And if he's not free to act differently, then he can't be morally condemned. It would be like condemning a child for not performing CPR on someone. If they don't know, they don't know. 2. Those who unwittingly participated or didn't participate, had every opportunity of turning back and facing their consequences (as Finarfin did), and because the Valar are fundamentally compassionate, they would have been forgiven and allowed to return to living in peace. But many Noldor heard the Doom and then kept going anyway. That's not the Valar's fault. Also, after the war of wrath (which was only a few hundred years later - hardly anything for immortals) the ban was lifted and the exiles were allowed back. 3. That is a good point. The Valar were not particularly helpful to the dark elves of Middle-earth. But I will point out, that when people say the Valar did nothing to help them, that's entirely untrue. Melkor tried to enslave all elves, and the Valar fought a massive war to defend them. They destroyed a vast swathe of land to capture Melkor and imprison him. 3000 years later they released him, and only 500 years after that, they fought another massive war to imprison him (this time without any hope of release) and once again they destroyed a massive swathe of land in the process. I think the Valar's partial reluctance to help fight Melkor is due to the knowledge of how destructive their wars are, and how much of Middle-earth is obliterated when they do help out. 4. Again, this is true, but not really the Valar's fault. They didn't know when or where Men would awaken, and they can't be blamed for not being everywhere at once. Tolkien makes it clear that the Valar are not all knowing, so it's a bit unfair to judge them as if they were. At the end of the day they are just people (albeit with power) and although they're not perfect, they're consistently compassionate and benign. I find it strange that they're so often condemned, and yet someone like Feanor, who is neither compassionate nor benign, has so many excuses made for him.
@lbshitkkers Жыл бұрын
@@tolkienuntangled firstly I’m gonna gush a bit here, you are by far my favourite Tolkien tuber, so it’s really cool to chat with you! On to the discussion now lol 1. I don’t blame manwe for freeing melkor, it was a mistake, and I don’t think it’s fair to condemn some one based on a mistake, what I take issue with is his response to the mistake, I don’t think he made much of an effort to rectify the situation, he was content sitting in valinor until earendil grovelled for their help. I don’t think he’s morally evil I just think he’s incompetent 2. I agree they could’ve turned back, I’d argue though that the noldor were more than justified in seeking recompense for melkors actions. What really bothers me about the doom is the fact that levelled it against the noldor but not melkor, it seems rather heavy handed considering the noldor are justifiably angry. 3. I agree the war for sake of the elves was the right thing to do and is a point in there favour, I’d give them a half point for the war of wrath because it took them 500 years and by that time it was far too late for many elves and men, and they only decided to help after earendil begged them to help. I can’t help but think that had Manwe made it his mission to bring Melkor to justice that so much senseless death and destruction could’ve been avoided, it feels as if Valars apathy was a needlessly cruel punishment inflicted on the noldor and anyone allied with them 4. I don’t expect them to be everywhere, or to be all knowing, but it would be rather challenging to find men when the valar themselves rarely left the undying lands and kept the vast majority of their maiar there as well, it’s doubtful that mortal men would awaken in the undying lands. To conclude I don’t think that the valar are evil just negligent and incompetent, I also have a hard time seeing them as wholly compassionate as well, simply because they were aware of the slaughter and pain that melkor was inflicting upon beleriand and chose to do nothing until begged to do so. As to Feanor I think you did an excellent job in your analysis, he’s questionable at best. Anyways, thanks again for the discussion really loved this Feanor video, maybe a video like this but on the valar would be interesting
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