What is crazy is that FCG killed their former party in a dark cave while being fully stressed. Whereas this time, while in a dark cave, FCG sacrificed themself while being fully stressed and saved the party. WILD.

She also killed Fearne, same episode she killed Orym and Laudna. So she killed 5 PCs, 3 important NPCs, wiped out Keyleth in one round, and killed countless people. Otohan Thull was a murder machine, a literal T-1000.

I really want the next 4 sided dive to be a Full party dive.

For the preparation of spells. the front line of the war said that resurection was not working and they took that to heart

Yes. This is the discussion I've been waiting for since Friday.

40:48 Sam already has a new character "hi I'm a cat" 😂

I think a cool idea could be mixing parties. So for each "boss", Ludy, Weavemind, Stormwhomever, Zathuda, each player gets to pick which of their characters they bring, so they can assemble mixed BH, M9 and VM parties and have 3 one-shot boss fights in a row. They could pick whomever they think would counter each of the opponents the best. Like, stack counterspells vs Ludy for example.

The only way I can see Sam Riegal bringing back FCG is fi its tragic to where, when they do re-assemble him and ask him if he remembers them, he just flat out says "Nope, who are you guys, hello there, smiley day to ya"

Was SOOOO looking forward to this discussion!!!!!

A jetpacking werewolf swinging a scyth sounds epic

Pike could also cast true resurrection. I’m ok with FCG being gone for good, I also wouldn’t mind a one shot after the campaign is over to bring FCG back.

This one was heartbreaking!

7:10 pretty sure Matt said Zathuda was on the back of Gloamgut as he had one of the party role a perception check to see if it was just Gloamgut and he said no, you definitely see a figure on his back

The amount of trust your players have to have in you to be okay with being dropped before doing anything at all

Sam knows that FCG coming back would totally cheapen the sacrifice. I will be gobsmacked if they bring him back.

Just the fact that Otohan had four attacks per action makes me pretty sure that she’s level 20 since that’s the fighter’s level 20 ability

I take exception to labeling Otohan "one of the best bad guys". One of the most effective/destructive bad guys definitely. But there was extremely little to her beyond combat. No ties to anyone's backstory, no real fleshed out persona, no intrigue or wits or scheming, no aspects of her beyond Ludinus's attack dog. She was scary as hell to face, but it was only combat deep.

One of the greatest critical episodes ever

Rip my yellow metal friend 😢

Sam Riegel MVP

Otohan had to be level 20 to have 2 action surges (level 17) and 4 attacks per action. You get the 4th extra attack at level 20. I don't think Sam will bring FCG back, at least not as is. What I do think might happen - Fearne has Reincarnate. So she could bring back FCG in a different form. Which would open some interesting possibilities. It's a reverse Veth situation, where FCG has to now get used to a different, organic form. You could also have a Kingsley situation, where there are aspects of FCG that get brought back, but different. That could be an interesting way to kind of bring FCG back, and allow him to keep pursuing FCG's story, but still give weight to that sacrifice. I hate this fight. I'll say it - this was really bad DMing on the part of Matt. There have been plenty of mistakes on everyone's part throughout the show. There have been some questionable decisions. There have been challenging, difficult fights where they were clearly outmatched for one reason or another (Kraken, Lorenzo, the Tomb Takers after the dragon, even the first Otohan fight). But NEVER have I said that it was bad DMing. This was bad DMing. He didn't build a "challenging" enemy. He built a broken, overpowered, bullshit character that every turn felt like a 4 year old had created it. Major problems: Ashton collapsing the tunnel not having any effect. "I collapse the tunnel." "Ok, there's another one right next to it, and she's right on top of you." Bullshit. Your player did something smart, reward that. Have her delay getting there so there's a chance of escape. Or have it collapse on top of her so she takes damage. He threw a fully rested level 20 character against exhausted level 13 characters. Being so much lower is already a disadvantage. Being down in abilities and health is even more so. He gave her a weapon and abilities that, with their level disparity, means that she is always going to hit, always going to knock them down, giving her advantage on every subsequent attack, and always going to do significant damage. With her abilities, she minimum does 130 damage per round, with a max of 312. A tarrasque only does 98 minimum, with a max of 358 per round. That takes down at least one, maybe 2 characters per round. Despite all that, they were holding their own. This was a battle of attrition, and they were managing to stay slightly ahead of her. So Matt brings out this ridiculous exultant mode. 25 AC - which is the same as a tarrasque resistance to all damage - a tarrasque has a limited list of resistances restoration of action surges, giving her back her 12 attacks per round (4 base attacks, 4 surge attacks, 1 bonus attack, and 3 legendary actions) - a tarrasque has 8 with its multi-attack and 3 legendary actions. And again, despite being unhittable, undamageable, and able to down 1-2 characters per turn, they STILL held their own in this battle of attrition. If that had been it, they probably would have been able to down her through conventional means. Maybe they lose someone, maybe not, but it would have been, if not a fair fight, at least not ridiculously broken. Then Matt breaks out a homebrew potion that has twice the healing dice of the biggest potion in the game. It undid half the damage they had done that fight with one potion. Sam's sacrifice was a beautiful moment. I just wish it hadn't come from such a bullshit fight.

another thing to consider with the Otohan encounter that has been circling my mind is what was her objective. the first fight with her was clear that she wanted Imogen to "wake up" with her power, but in this fight? I think even Marisha or someone else said "lets ask her what she wants" but they never did ingame... maybe the panic took over. also, and something that has risen before with CR (and Matt has said so too) is that initiative not always means combat is inevitable, but alas, Orym was the first and he just went for it. the dice rolls and the decisions in the moment tell the story, not a script

I could see a one-shot post C3 that could see the gang delving into Aeor to find a replacement vessel for FCG. It was said that his head was mostly intact. 🤷‍♂️ I’m happy either way. It was a great moment. I don’t think they have enough time with the current events to sidetrack to Aeor etc. to bring FCG back right now.

Hey, the time stamp was on the youtube video! 4:22:44 for those who are curious, its during fearnes last turn, before otahan attacks FCG. Amazing discussion guys!

Liliana is a war criminal, but she wont be judge because imogen (and therefore BH) will oppose at the idea. Edit: When imogen exalted back in Bassuras, Matt narrate how something about the moon found common ground with his inner beast. and then, when they were flying (via skyship) towards the Gorgynei there was a Ruidus Flare that catch Chetney on the deck of the ship and matt narrated how something related to the moon of made that "itch" grow and had to be free. So im guessing the weave mind knew who chetney was from that interaction through that flare

I think if FCG didn't sacrifice themself Imogens mom would have had to come rescue the party or it would have been a TPK

What if FRIDA/Christian takes Sam's place at the table??

I think the other thing about this play and matt being so shaken up was its pretty visceral when someone feels suicide is the only answer, and matt has probably lost friends in that way. So I dont think he thought of a suicide mechanic personally besides “yeah hes got a bomb in him”

What about Fern casting Reincarnate lvl 5? That would be poetic for FCG coming back as a humanoid

Otohan had to be a level 20 fighter since she had 4 attacks an action.

I wonder if they would have won against the Mind…then Orym could have asked for help during Odahan instead. Was Odagan fight predetermined or was it because the Mind fight was skipped? So excited to see the next session!

I am dead inside - I broke when I saw the Liam in pure pain

The thing is CR might as well stop saying they're playing dungeons and dragons, but saying they're playing dungeons and Otohans, lol! She made for an excellent villan throught the campaign and, if the predictions on the powerscales for the remaining ones are right... We better get ready for what's coming! Can't wait to watch the next episode, maybe I'll try to catch it on thursday.

30:00 I think matt will never TPK on purpose unless the party comes to that conclusion above table. He started spreading attacks and targeting healthier opponents when it looked like imogen could be dead next I think he’d risk losing all tension and stakes from the story and the audience leaving on masse before he pulls a TPK that isnt the players deciding to fight to the death

she was level 20 because as a fighter she had 4 attacks and two action surges per short rest/exalt

4attacks per round means lvl 20 fighter

I was hoping you guys would post early....**sobs, blows nose Literally before FCG had his turn I thought to myself, doesn't he have a bomb inside him? Is Odahan going to trigger it if she hits him too hard? Then Sam does what he does best...make us all cry. Damn genius.

This seems like such a perfect situation for CR's first reincarnate. It totally changes things for Sam & FCG, and continues that journey of self-knowledge the character is on. I'm cool with whatever Sam does, though. I'm not 100% sure he vibed with Cleric as much as his other characters. He did a great job tho.

I'd like FCG to become the Champion of the Change Bringer. Not as a PC though.

This Episode was up there with the "At what Level? - Nine." moment for me. And both times it was sam motherfucking riegel. What a legend.

True resurrection cost 25,000 gp of diamonds too

If it was a TPK would they have maybe continued the campaign as their C1 or C2 characters?

If only the healing potion hasn´t been the supreme one but other they could win the fight hardly but win it but 66 with resistance to all damage disbalanced the fight. And the death of Otohan was a narrative one because mecanically she would resist the impact of FCG´s bomb and be alive still.

Btw, what I'd REALLY love to see is Zathuda following them out of the city and Lilianna stepping in to fight him, so that we get a parent showdown. Mom vs Dad, who wins? Place your bets!

The moment she drank that superior healing potion I knew it was over, and at that moment I was upset with our GM there. I think had FCG not done his move they whould have all died, they could not escape. The increased high AC in her ascended state, halved dmg from everything, with 4 attacks, legendary attack action every pc's turn, and more movement then them - no way out.

To lightly talk about something that could have saved this fight - if FCG used Bless. So many rolls on her just missed, and Bless could have done all the difference. I remember in one of their videos Sam was like "I dont really know what to do besides going in with my sawblade" and the others talked to him about Bless, and it would fit in my mind FCG's persona to have that spell, but he did not use it.

I think Matt went into this with the intention of "not everyone is coming out of this alive." He went for Chetney first because Chetney is a charcter who has lived a life and travis is okay if he dies. Once that was accomplished i think he was thinking okay now lets just see what happens. No more insta murder but I'm still out to win. I also think he narratively was giving them a chance by having her use the backpack to chase them thru the tunnels so maybe her shadows werent even all immediately available during combat. But even "giving them a chance" it was still designed to take at least one of them with him if he loses. Also i don't think matts villains have a "level" per se, but fighters get their 4th attack at level 20 so at the very least she was based off a level 20.

Otohan is 2nd in command to ludinus

I think it’s important to separate the rational critique from just being a jerk, especially when using the word *toxic. I didn’t see the Reddit stuff Blake did… but what he described, *feeling like bringing FCG back might affect the story telling in a negative way, seems like a perfectly rational critique? In all fairness, you all are constantly talking about the choices the cast makes and how it affects the story. Surely there’s room for similar critique that’s not flattering….. of course, I disagree that this isn’t a show, in fact; I think all public facing art ( especially monitized) is not only worthy of critique, I think it’s important…. and maybe that’s where the divide often lands. but I digress.

1) If FCG was resurrected would his new form be Aeormaton or was his soul from a regular humanoid? 2) He becomes like Vax a champion spirit for their diety

I personally feel like if sam wanted to continue FCGs story but not bring him back I think a poetic and meaningful thing would be for sam to come back as Dancer maybe?

Sam's choice ultimately doesn't surprise me. In every campaign he seems to want to switch characters around this point. I still don't like it, but I knew he was going to do it at some point. I think FCG might appear at some point in an NPC capacity, maybe as a voice from the afterlife. But I don't see Sam wanting to bring him back.

Planeshift could have helped them escape.

Oh damn. Would have been a TPK.

The only two things i can really say about bringing fcg back is that: 1: it was such a huge moment, I can't see fcg coming back. Sam played it soo well. And 2: I think that the cast has gotten used to having the revify/ resurrection spells. Over 3 campaigns, I actually think it could be a good thing having one perma death that wasn't expected like Bell. I guess time will tell. What an incredible fight. Just praying to god we have the whole cast for 4sd this week

What if Ludinus wants a “vessel” so he can feed off Predathos. So he becomes predathos. Or has all his power. Then the Twilight of the Gods can begin….

She is level 20 fighter because she got and 4 Attacks. Critical Role Stats is very acurate I dont want to sound mean but it takes seconds to look up.😅

Liliana is going to join them and fight Ludinus.

I've described Bells Hells as equivalent to the Star Wars, Rogue 1 team. A rag tag group that is up against something way beyond their means. All of the villains are way more powerful than they are. They're in essence, the bait, in order for VM and M9 to save the day. I was expecting a TPK, I think they all (minus Ashley) were expecting it. CR was quickly headed to something they never experienced. And perhaps that would of been fitting to the story? But now they will return battered, sad and less one Yellow Robot, to Exandria. Not sure what will happen? Will they stay together or will this fracture the group? Can't wait until Thursday!! On a side note, who else was a bit disappointed in Fearne's new fire titan powers? Either she was holding back or didn't know her abilities yet? Unclear, but she really didn't do very much in that epic battle. Ashely is best in RP mode. Not very good in D&D tactics and battles. And one more, I believe Taliesin goofed on the part he held his action. He was in his Earth Titan form and could travel much further than 40' as when he is in his normal form. He could of been at Otohan and not had to wait for his next turn. To answer your question, at 33:30 range: I think Otohan was 20th level, she has over 400 hp and has 4 attacks per round, plus legendary actions and resistances.

I really appreciate the sentiments you guys said. I've grown to dislike the fandom [mainly the reddit, twitters, and other content creators] that compare this campaign and how they dislike this compared to the previous ones. I think people forget that this is a game and not a scripted show. Just like with watching any sort of playthrough video, if you don't like how the game is being played, then don't watch and move on. You don't need to comment on every single thread appreciating the events of this campaign with "I don't really like this campaign." It just unnecessarily sours the mood of every one else enjoying the show.

Otohan is a god....

To touch if the rest of the party will help save the gods. In my opinion if FCG is gone for good then the rest of the party should save them in the memory of FCG

I would like to put something completely stupid and irrational on the table... Revivify and resurrection magic are available again.... Why not bring Otty back for a little bit, just long enough to suck her up with the harness? lol. And... Of course... Let's give it to Laudna. Time to get crazy. Also, kind of feel bad for Sam... If he does come back with a new character, he's forced to be a cleric or paladin and that's kind of a bummer when you're designing something new. Since he was a cleric, home brew, that also had Paladin level spells. Tough decision to be made. I'd kind of like to see a party with no real healer on it, haven't seen something like that in a long time.

Matt has said this is a "living world" so actions have consequences. People always gripe or mention Matt "not balancing" encounters or things. That's because a real world doesn't have balance. You try to fight a literal legend, you gunna get wumped. But when your table is a group that trusts their DM and in each other to tell a great story (evidenced by his excitement even in tradgedy). And the details fall as they may.

My guess is they won't resurrect FCG, but they will deliver Otohan's body to Keyleth who will bring her back to interrogate.

Sam literally "Iron Gianted" us it's so unfair 🥲

And for the 3rd straight campaign, Sam manages to play (essentially) two characters!!!! I’m hoping he plays a Ranger!!!!! But I’m thinking Paladin.