+Jason B, exactly right!

Youth to Adult belt transition is probably arbitrary. in the past 4 months at my son's academy Iv'e seen 3 sixteen year old's turn that age and start taking classes with the adults. All of them had been taking youth classes before. 2 of them started as white belts and one was started as a blue belt. There are two others that are about 12 that have been training with adults as well, who wear their youth belts. from what I've heard the highest transition that can be awarded going from youth to adult at 16 is purple, and 19 is the young age for black belt,

I would like to add that these two 12 year olds have been training for 5 plus years, plus their fathers ( one Black Belt and the other a 4 stripe Purple) are with them and do the techniques with them. Pretty much everyone knows them and works with them the same as they would a smaller training partner. One of the better blue belts is a 17 year old that weighs about 150 pounds and can pretty much thrash every other blue belt there.

At KJJ, we run kids through the traditional white/yellow/orange/green belts. At age 16 and above, their next belt change will be to a blue (or if they're extraordinary, a purple). I've had a 9th grader begin KJJ and start in the adult class. Upon completion of the white to blue curriculum, I put him straight to green. At 16, Prof Dave told me to switch his belt out to blue (I was going to keep him at green as if it were his blue and skip to purple when the time came), instead. I have two 11th graders who still have orange belts because hey aren't ready for blue yet. We begin to have kids transition into the adult class at 9th grade, unless they're particularly large vs the juniors' class, then we'll bump them up earlier. Still wearing kid belts, though.

The problem with belts in ANY Gung Fu style is: they don't have standards. If your school is using belts, then it's something your Shifu set up, so when you tell us you are a brown belt in "Shaolin Gung Fu," it tells us nothing to the proficiency. The use of Belts doesn't necessarily make your school bad, but for most schools and styles, Brown is the colour right before Black, and sometimes before Red; so the fact you earned it in 9 months is highly suspicious. You may be at a McDojo.

I find myself doing the same all the time. It’s very comfortable probably has to do with the innate ability of sitting down with a form of base and hip relaxation for sure.

+werywerywile, we tell that to every person outside our school who ask about rank.

Exactly!

I agree. Just roll. belts are just pretty decorations.

I agree and dissagree. I had a striking background before starting Jiu-Jitsu. I hated the belt systems in the striking arts cause they weren't a measurement of skill WTF TKD for example. I agree belts shouldn't be the goal but they are a good measurement of skill in Jiu-Jitsu.

It keeps people encouraged & whether literally everyone is willing admit it or not a sense of accomplishment is important part of human nature.

Worn out belts are the best! Bummed my dawg chewed up my fave worn out belt last year. 😢🤬

+Kama Jiu-Jitsu they are, they tie well, smell horrible, and remind you of all the times youve been hip thrown on your rear end by a belt grip. I still even like to wear my old gi tops that are torn and tattered. hope your dog was able to digest whatever he chewed up....

What you now?

+R W, that's sad to hear. I (Ryan) just heard the same thing Wednesday night about another Carlson, Sr coral belt who was training some guys and was only focusing on teaching competition concepts, including calling out points. Maybe that's only to prepare for an upcoming tournament? I'm sure they're not all like that... i hope they're not all like that...

The foundations are nvr changing, look for ab academy that has the fighting jiujitsu method with solid foundation of jiujitsu for self defense. You'll be fine, the new moves, in my view, are due to the lack of foundational techniques being taught, to counter a solid attack, e.g. berimbolo instead of proper guard attack and maintenance to overcome obstacles of a guard pass etc...

I hope I do not come off in a bad way but I'm going to be open with you guys and preface by saying that many times what I type does not come out the best because for communication in person I depend heavily on inflection which of course is not present with this medium. I hope I do not offend anyone as I like the Kama channel very much and have much respect for anyone who would turn down a promotion after 2 decades in the game (you very likely perform at the black belt level with that much mat time) Ok onto my thoughts. in BJJ we always hear (and usually say ourselves more then a few times) "check your ego at the door" but we can't let it just be a lipservice catchphrase. Just like we pride ourselves on our belts carrying the meaning of the skills it takes to earn them our words must also carry the meaning they seem to imply or they are as shallow as those of the booing fans when a fight hits the ground at an mma event. In my opinion, deciding for someone else what is or is not a worthy goal for THEIR training is the height of ego. As far more experienced martial artists it is fine to determine the best ways for them to accomplish the goals they set for themselves within the martial art, but deciding for them what goals are good or bad is not what we are there for. Student 1 wants to lose 25 pounds to take stress off of his heart, student 2 wants to feel safe walking to their car alone at night, student 3 wants to try it out because they have heard good things, and student 4 wants to chase medals and get into MMA. Which of them are wrong? None of them! All of those goals are perfectly acceptable within the tent of BJJ. So if people want to teach in a way that tournaments are a big focus that should be fine, and if other people want to teach in a way that they look at defending attacks from behind that should be fine. And to the guy who refused the offer of the Black Belt promotion, consider that maybe you were right to do so for one because it is what makes you feel comfortable but also because a black belt is a teacher and a leader, and leadership is best done by example. If you disagree with the school as it is, train there but show them that finishes mean something. Remind them that submitting someone means all their points are meaningless. Maybe you can spark the change you would see in that particular gym if not the entire world. I try not to talk this much but I am pretty passionate about this. I was hurt by a desire to focus on nogi and was pretty much brow beaten and out voted into effectively only training in the gi and as a result I spent years and a good few thousand dollars developing a skillset that I didn't really want to a respectable level and am mediocre at the skillset I wanted.

Principles and concepts never change regardless of the individual technique they're disguised as. You may get surprised or tricked by a move you've never seen (due to a specific grip, way the opponent moves, etc) but it won't trick you more than a few times at most as long as you make an effort to understand it. If you're of a high enough level, I'm sure you'll find similarities between it and a technique you already know.

Thanks for the comment!

Rener Gracie can do as he pleases.

What he is doing is correct ,why? Because it uses belts to what they truly mean ,an indicator that you learned a specific number of techniques not an indicator of skill

Key words ...blue belt.

It actually has a Specific belt name, that signifies that you have completed the "30 something" techniques Combatives portion of their curriculum. Its not an official Blue Belt.

+Nathan Higgins my assumption, is they know self defense, coming down from Jacare.

Nathan Higgins hey we are practically cousins. My professor also got his black belt from Jacare.

Thanks!

If your school doesn’t offer what you want to learn, it’s up to you to learn it where you can learn it.

Secret formula...

Their father was a red belt who trained under Hélio for over 50 years. From their website: "The Valente family is the only family other than the Gracie family to have four black belts and professor diplomas awarded directly by Grandmaster Hélio Gracie."

The problem is that its hard to gauge technique when people can compensate with athleticism. For example a 65 year old black belt woman who stands at 5'1" and weight 110 lbs might have great knowledge of technique but might get tapped out by a 25 year old 6'3" and 265 lb male white belt just because the white belt is so much larger and stronger.

I’ve made my choice, but I might just wrestle or do judo instead, if traditional Gracie Jiu-Jitsu were not available.

the sandbagging is the nature of the game of BJJ competitions. i used to train with Ralph Gracie BB Sean Roberts, who has always been a phenom. He was destroying a lot of unsuspecting black belts from his purple belt days. however, when competing, other schools who had someone like Sean were doing the same. remember lloyd irvin's brown belt kumite, where he introduced the world to keenan cornelius? sean was in that competition (as was tonon, aj, and several other top black belts of today) and took second to keenan. after it was done, sean said keenan was so good, he would beat most black belts, which quickly became evident. the point is, that if everyone in competition is sandbagging, it's all good, because the playing field is even. just like PEDs in competition. if everyone is doing them, is it so "unfair" anymore? the point of the video was that many people wearing black belts, simply are not. sure, you can account for G=T+P, but i've seen enough black belts succumb to decent (but not sandbagged by any means) blue belts to know they had "low T" (which means something completely different to some of us old guys, but that's for another VLOG), which means their jiu-jitsu was incomplete.

+Know Hype Roger Gracie and his father Mauricio Gomes, for sure.

Kama Jiu-Jitsu Thank you for your response, I will look them up. You have a new sub.

Nicky Rod was already an accomplished wrestler. A LOT of overlapping knowledge and skills.

that's a tricky question, these days. a lot of black belts are "legit" because of who they received the black belt from, but when you go to train with/learn from them, they're not what was expected. there are a lot of registries (IBJJF, JJGF, among many others), but it's still hit and miss. just go and try schools out and see what you feel when there.

@@KamaJiuJitsu thanks

Given that most of the "curriculum" in jiu-jitsu is pretty much learned from white through purple belts, having clear cut standards and requirements for the early belts is cut and dried. Once you get to the upper levels, a lot of it has to do with "degrees of execution" of a technique/concept/philosophy. That makes the upper belt levels (up to black) more subjective. Now compared to judo, students can progress to black belt faster because the true "degrees of execution" doesn't really happen until black belt. As it was once explained to me, equivalent "levels of mastery" in jiu-jitsu to judo is - jiu-jitsu black belt = judo third degree black belt. Or conversely, judo black belt = jiu-jitsu high blue/low purple belt. People may beg to differ, which is fine. I'm no authority on judo by any means.

@@KamaJiuJitsu I sort of agree with your level mastery comparison but it depends on what dojo they walk into you - Meaning if a jiu jitsu black belt walked into a judo dojo his level of judo throws is probably a blue belt level, thats only because jiu jitsu probably focuses on 20% throws 80% ground thats my understanding. When i was competing in judo at brown belt i would beat black belts all the time 1st,2nd,3rd degrees - you have to have competition points to do your judo gradings and i had heaps of points to do my grading but it was up to me if i wanted to do the grading, i could just not be given my black belt even though i have the knowledge to obtain one. Thus judokas can be hard to read at a tournament as you can stay on your same belt for years if you wish and have the skill set of a black belt. From your video i was getting that a lower belt should not be able to beat a black belt in Jiu Jitsu , is this correct? My understanding of your grading system that belts are awarded to students from their coach when they display the knowledge criteria for that level. Is this written in a grading book on what you need to know for each belt grading for Jiu Jitsu? The reason i ask about this as when i studied for my belts i had to know all the throws,hold downs and submissions by name ( japanese name ), my sensei would say the name in japanese to me i had to demonstrate it. Does Jiu Jitsu techniques take from Japanese language or is it English spoken now? Also love your channel it has been informative on Jiu Jitsu which is why i come here. I did Tohkun Ryu Ju Jitsu years ago which i really enjoyed.

let me clarify... i'm not saying a high blue/purple belt walks into a judo studio and beats a black belt in judo. what i'm saying that based on technical knowledge in their respective art, a judo black belt has been exposed to (and can demonstrate an ability to execute) the entire curriculum of judo. for the BJJ practitioner, the same should be the case by the time a person gets to high blue/purple belt. i think in an actual fight, either will have enough tools to beat finish each other with equal proficiency (although they may use a different means to finish each other). when we discuss proficiency in their respective art, given the typical timeline to achieve their respective ranks (again, "typically" speaking), a 3rd dan black belt in judo will have a similar understanding/ability to execute to a proficient level as what a new black belt in jiu-jitsu would. still, not saying who will prevail if they were to meet up in a match (due to rules) or a fight (depends on the circumstances).

BJJ completely went the mcdojo route

Isn’t that what Helio and Carlos did?

You’re prolly right.

@@KamaJiuJitsu Renzo Gracie is the school here

I hope so, too.

+DustinDiBree1 GMs Carlos, Sr and Helio had that. It was called a white belt (navy blue for instructors).

We try to. Most don’t.

You’re exactly right

And started judo at 18 and got my blackbelt by age 23

We don’t speak about one particular school/system that we don’t have an intimate knowledge of. As far as someone earning a black belt in 4 years... in most cases (imho), those recipients don’t know the whole art; but they’re probably/definitely black belts in the system they learned. It’s just highly unlikely they earned that black belt in Gracie Jiu-Jitsu.

😂

come on by!

+Eduardo Pires, very well stated. Thank you for that!

Kama Jiu-Jitsu thanks. I enjoy your videos a lot

+poeguru88, haha! The things we observe, sometimes!

+Kama Jiu-Jitsu I practice Gracie jiu jitsu and I study Takemusu Aiki,, an intention based form of aikido that uses beneficent intention to overpower aggression,, it would be so awesome to train with you guys sometime and exchange knowledge, I know I'd learn so much!!!

+poeguru88, I'm intent on choking and smashing. Is that the same?

+Kama Jiu-Jitsu hahaha sure!! I would call that tough love :)

so we do an "intention-based" form of Gracie Jiu-Jitsu. awesome!

+Shawn Williams., we're just making observations, here. If you go under the assumption that when Helio Gracie's sons were running the show, meaning the day to day teaching duties of an Academy, and given their faithful adherence to their father's teaching methods, it was safe to assume that a black belt produced by one of Helio's sons (in the day-to-day operation of the Academy) will be entirely legitimate. As time goes on, if that black belt doesn't continue to hold the same standards for self-defense or shifts the focus of the art to competition and MMA, it only makes sense that the Art will be different, even if the difference is ever so slight. Now take that down a couple generations of black belts, and a black belt three or four generations down the line will not be teaching the same thing that Helio's sons were teaching. We think we're seeing that already, and that's what Rickson is trying to stop with the establishment of the Jiujitsu Global Federation. We're not trying to say one is better or worse. All we're trying to say, is if a black belt is going to call his art Gracie jiujitsu, shouldn't it be exactly the same as what Gracie jiujitsu has always been, at least on a fundamental level? Every school calling themselves a Gracie jiujitsu school, should all have the same basic fundamental programs, teaching methods, and methodology. Once those core concepts are taken into account, play around with it all you want. It just seems odd to have a school say they're teaching Gracie jiujitsu with none of their students knowing how to get out of all the major head locks, for instance.

Thats exactly what I think is going to happen to Jiu-jitsu. It already is to an extent. You will do in a fight what you practice in the gym. If self defense against punches and kicks are not part of that you will not magically rise to the challenge. A large % of what I see in sport only schools is less than useless in a fight. Most will in fact get you hurt badly. Can your top sport blue belt completely run over the pure Gracie brown belt? Its likely on the mat in pure grappling. Now add in some punches and a 30 pound weight disadvantage and watch the sport guy get his ass handed to him.

+dragonballjiujitsu did you mean sport brown belt vs gracie blue belt?

The last sentence hits the nail on the head.

Capoeira Angola does not have a belt system, but you knew who was better based on time and skill. The only issue is there are no Capoeira Angola tournaments. BJJ is largely centered around the tournament circuit, thus belts signify skill level. I like that there are only 5 belts in BJJ as opposed to taekwondo schools that can have 8-10 belts.

yes but a blackbelt of any resprectable BJJ School - should have done say 7 8 9 10+ years and have say 2000 hours + mat time, under the watchful eyes of other Blackbelts. So as a minimum - all BJJ Blackbelts should be able to submit a non trained attacker in 15 seconds. But there will always be diffences in blackbelts if someones a World Class Competitor training 30 HRs a week training hard core with other BJJ BBs, and one runs a school as s/he enjoys it and trains 4 times a week, rolling with his/her students.

sadly, many do, these days.

no disrespect taken. thanks for commenting!

+Cruz Bryan, completely valid points.

😆. You don’t know us, do you?

not really :) I never heared any belt issue or fake wrestler or boxer so far.. so there is a major issue about belt system - getting rid of it is not such a bad idea :)

Define “legitimate.”.

@@KamaJiuJitsu One who has gone through a school recognized by either IBJJF or GJJ entities. There are too many fakes out there. Sorry for responding so late. KZfaq just notified me of this response!

+David Hannah you are definitely of the old-school mentality! The problem is, as time has gone on, the lineage sometimes doesn't mean much. This is especially true when you have affiliates and associations. A lot of times, the black belt comes with paying the money to the master to become an affiliate. I've seen it happen more than a few times, and it's made me realize that in a lot of cases, Jiu-Jitsu is simply a business.

Kama Jiu-Jitsu I know what you mean! The higher the number of affiliates someone has, the more questionable their black belts are going to be, lol!

i am not necessarily saying that. but it can happen from time to time.

the IBJJF has one. hasn't helped.

You’re exactly right.

+infoguy1978 that is correct, sir.

The only thing a belt means is when you started your journey. A fight is a fight and a roll is a roll. You never know what the other person knows until you bump fists.

as you already know, SEALs, SF, MARSOC, Rangers, Delta, et al are extraordinary individuals among a group of (also) extraordinary individuals. there are extraordinary black belts for sure, but really, jiu-jitsu is a way/path for the NON extraordinary to become their best. and you must acknowledge that someone's best may still not match up well with the aforementioned individuals on their worst days. to compare an individual who lives and breathes what they do best as an operator to the rest of the population (even if they are trained in BJJ) is not an apples to apples comparison. same as comparing an NFL player's abilities in football vs a high school championship team captain. not even on the same level. but then do you denigrate the high school player just because he wants to play to the best of his abilities, yet the NFL professional runs circles around him?

Kama Jiu-Jitsu thanks for actually replying. I do watch your vids alot. And you have good content. I transitioned to bjj after I left active duty. So as I said , I guess, my main argument is the belt means nothing except when you started your journey. I think it would be awesome if you addressed it in a video continuation about how you're talking about people in the ranks who don't have prior experience. Just my opinion though, and I'm still gonna watch your vids whether you do it or not. Just disagree on this topic