Fantasy VS. Literature | Anti-Intellectualism and Genre Snobbery

  Рет қаралды 361

Micah S. Vernon | Habitual Blood

Micah S. Vernon | Habitual Blood

Ай бұрын

An off the cuff video where I try to address the divide between genre fiction and literary fiction, commercial and non-commercial literature, and why anti-intellectualism harms fantasy

Пікірлер: 12
@bretttharpwriter
@bretttharpwriter Ай бұрын
JËAN WOLFE
@HabitualBlood
@HabitualBlood Ай бұрын
GËNË WØLFË
@brwn_pprbg
@brwn_pprbg 17 күн бұрын
Love to see Saidiya Hartman in your library
@HabitualBlood
@HabitualBlood 16 күн бұрын
A book I still need to read but am very much looking forward to!
@sw3dge
@sw3dge Ай бұрын
Love a solid rant. I believe it was Steven Erikson who said he's been to lots of different kinds conventions to speak and interestingly fantasy authors love to read all genres where as lit fic authors can kind of be snobby about other genres. I wonder if the self pub explosion in fantasy is happening in other genres as well.
@HabitualBlood
@HabitualBlood Ай бұрын
Yes, I think I remember Erikson saying the same thing. I can't be too sure on how true that rings, as I think I've encountered stubbornness on both sides. Hell, the entire reason I started this channel is because I wanted somewhere to talk fantasy, and my primarily literary twitter wasn't enough (outside of one or two mutuals), and likewise because I thought fantasy booktube could use a little more perspective from the literary side of things. That said there are always exceptions to this. I think a lot of lit readers like to disguise how much fantasy they've read, and often fantasy readers just don't get the chance to bring up their lit reads, so my data is inconclusive!-but of course, Erikson likely has more experience than me, and I don't doubt how well read many authors like Wolfe, Harrison, Tad Williams, Janny Wurts, Erikson himself and and so on are, especially as I've heard seen most of them first hand talk about literary works. He's perhaps right I haven't seen the same as willingly from lit authors, besides Gaiman, maybe Rushdie, or once again Borges who likely didn't read "fantasy" as we are familiar with it, but considered fantastical literature the true literature. I think the self-pub explosion is doing pretty well for horror as well as SFF, and of course micro-genres like LitRPG are also booming as a result. Sadly, I don't think the same is true for most literary fiction-a realm where a publisher, even a small, independent publisher, feels essential to get your book off the ground. I don't know if I can think of a single recent literary fiction work that's been self-published, which is very unfortunate.
@sw3dge
@sw3dge Ай бұрын
@@HabitualBlood there’s definitely stubbornness on the fantasy reader side. And also reader and writer opinion/experience may differ too. Erikson may read widely but many fantasy booktube community members may read only fantasy. Great video!
@HabitualBlood
@HabitualBlood Ай бұрын
True, the writer/reader aspect creates a little divide, too. It behoves the writer to read more widely than the reader, I think. Thanks for watching and commenting! I appreciate the discussion.
@chunchism
@chunchism Ай бұрын
many thoughts head full!!!
@HabitualBlood
@HabitualBlood Ай бұрын
So many thoughts!
@alejandroga666
@alejandroga666 Ай бұрын
Thank you for the video. I don't disagree with your conclusion that genre readers and literary fiction readers should be open to read more books outside of their comfort zones. However, I think that you are somewhat confusing and mixing different concepts and ideas that do not quite work. For example, you seem to make the distinction between literary fiction and genre fiction based on whether the text has "realist" or "fantastical" elements. I don't think that that is a useful or accurate way if understanding literature since it equates "literary realism", as an artistic movement within literature, with "literary fiction" as a whole. This is a mistake. "Realism" corresponds to a movement within the arts, it is not the same as literary fiction as an art form. This is why you can have authors like Borges, Pynchon, and Kafka, who have "fantastical" elements within their writing and still be considered as literary fiction authors. For me, the distinction lies in the fact that genre fiction tends to rely on common formulas or elements that fit into the specific genre. This is not to say that there aren't genre authors that also explore tropes or elements of other genres. I think that this is an essential distinction since otherwise it could lead you to some really faulty conclusions (magical realism being a fancy word for fantasy). Salman Rushide, Murakami, and Garcia Marques are as close to fatlntasy genre fiction as Earth is to the black hole at the centre of our galaxy. I think that the real relevant distinction for your analysis should have been the difference between "commercial" vs "artistical" fiction, the latter understood as fiction that's primarily concerned with artistic expression and not book sales. Most people tend to think of Fantasy, SciFi, or Horror as commercial fiction, while diminishing the value of genre autors that are doing something more than simply cranking out books for sale. Authors like Wolfe, Erikson, Le Guinn, Dick, Herbert, etc. are clearly operating at a different level than the common commercial writer. On the other hand, as you mentioned in the video, there are commercial authors that are deemed to be "literary" simply because they do not neatly fall within a genre or have some artistic level in their writting (e.g. Sally Rooney or Chricton).
@HabitualBlood
@HabitualBlood Ай бұрын
I appreciate the thoughtful response! I think we must just different conclusions on what it means to be literary. Literary from my view is little more than a stylistic signifier. A full-blown fantasy book can be literary, and hell, can even be largely realist. No definitions are ironclad, there are always exceptions to the rule. So I just use "fantastical" as a primary element because it is something fantasy fans complain is missing most in literary fiction. And likewise, it might just have been poorly argued on my part, but my intent was to argue that there was no difference between literary and fantasy, erasing the line (or black hole) between the two, and instead bring the difference to commercial vs non-commercial fiction, which hosts a much greater divide, one which both "genres" find themselves on either side of. I find this distinction a lot more helpful, and probaby a little less alienating. Surely, I'd attribute to Gene Wolfe a greater closeness to literary classics than I would the latest fantasy bestseller like Fourth Wing, but a simple "fantasy" and "literary" divide would not see it as such.
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