Favorite Orchestral Moments for Big Drums (Timpani and Bass Drum) - Part Two

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Richard Atkinson

Richard Atkinson

Күн бұрын

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Richard Atkinson continues to discuss his favorite orchestral moments for "big drums" (timpani and bass drum). This is a fair use educational commentary that uses excerpts from the following recordings/performances:
Mozart: Symphony No 35 in D, K. 385, "Haffner"
Orchestra of the National Academy of Santa Cecilia, Antonio Pappano
Mozart: Divertimento in C, K. 188 (for winds and timpani)
Philharmonia Orchestra
Mozart: Serenata Notturna, K. 239 (for strings and timpani)
The Academy of Ancient Music, Andrew Manze
Haydn: Symphony No. 82 in C, “Bear”
Academy of St. Martin in the Fields, Neville Marriner
Mozart: Overture from “The Abduction from the Seraglio,” K. 384
London Philharmonic Orchestra, Alfred Scholz
Haydn: Symphony No. 100 in G, “Military”
SWR Symphonieorchester, Konrad Junghänel
Beethoven: Wellington's Victory, or the Battle of Vitoria (Battle Symphony), Op. 91
Vienna State Opera Orchestra, Hermann Scherchen
Beethoven: Symphony No. 9 in D minor, Op.125
Deutsche Kammerphilharmonie Bremen, Paavo Järvi
Beethoven: Symphony No. 5 in C minor, Op. 67
Vienna Philharmonic, Carlos Kleiber
Beethoven: Symphony No. 7 in A major, Op. 92
Vienna Philharmonic, Carlos Kleiber
Beethoven: Symphony No. 8 in F major, Op. 93
Frankfurt Radio Symphony, Andrés Orozco-Estrada
Haydn: Symphony No. 92 in G, “Oxford”
Academy of St. Martin in the Fields, Neville Marriner
00:00 - Mozart (timpani)
09:07 - Haydn (timpani)
11:58 - Mozart (bass drum)
12:46 - Haydn (bass drum)
14:42 - Beethoven (bass drum)
16:57 - Beethoven (timpani)

Пікірлер: 89
@groezy
@groezy 3 ай бұрын
8:28 that timpani cadenza is incredible! i've never heard anything like it
@MarcosAntonio-hp5tg
@MarcosAntonio-hp5tg 3 ай бұрын
Our man is back! Thanks a lot, Richard, for your hard work. It’s always a pleasure seeing your notifications.
@guikentaro
@guikentaro 3 ай бұрын
Gotta agree. It's a delight to see his videos!
@GustavAhlbrand
@GustavAhlbrand 3 ай бұрын
13:40 mahler 5 jumpscare
@koolkdny
@koolkdny 3 ай бұрын
my immediate first thought
@grannybrer
@grannybrer 3 ай бұрын
Thank you! That was fun. It makes me wish I'd studied Timpani and played it when I was younger.
@dracho8741
@dracho8741 3 ай бұрын
The best video series ever
@strassbergermusic
@strassbergermusic 3 ай бұрын
My dude has got to have the most loyal fanbase. You rock, Richard!
@WizardWalk
@WizardWalk 3 ай бұрын
Ah, Serenata Notturna, I love it! Great video, thank you!
@guikentaro
@guikentaro 3 ай бұрын
Gotta say, Richard.. your videos are so good that I often come back to literally take notes during my study. You make excellent analysis, and I appreciate your effort to make these videos!
@johnchessant3012
@johnchessant3012 3 ай бұрын
5:01 it's such a short snippet that it can't mean anything, but I can't help but hear Beethoven 8 (which also makes an appearance in this video, at 22:20)
@Richard.Atkinson
@Richard.Atkinson 3 ай бұрын
Ha! I had both of those going through my head all month but never noticed that!
@zhihuangxu6551
@zhihuangxu6551 3 ай бұрын
Hah, I also commented similarly without noticing yours
@hjo4104
@hjo4104 Ай бұрын
Yeah so true !!! But it wasn't an uncommon figure during classical era.
@Mariosergio61
@Mariosergio61 3 ай бұрын
I have heard some of these works many times over the last 40 years. But I had never noticed such subtleties.
@maxmcwhirter5456
@maxmcwhirter5456 3 ай бұрын
Thank you Richard for your passionate content. I love the in depth analysis but it's made all the better by your love for the music which permeates every video you make. An utter joy as always; one of the GOAT youtube channels imo!
@killianmiller6107
@killianmiller6107 3 ай бұрын
I’ve played timpani for Mozart’s serenata notturna a couple years ago. Our orchestra decided to do their cadenza solos referencing other Mozart melodies, and as a timpanist I didn’t quite know what to do, but eventually I arranged the theme from symphony 40 Mv 1 for just the two notes.
@tatopiano
@tatopiano 3 ай бұрын
You don't even know how important those videos are. Thank You!
@johanvanangeren6150
@johanvanangeren6150 2 ай бұрын
Great video about great timeless art. This music is Immortal.
@guf323
@guf323 3 ай бұрын
Haydn incredible as usual, such a man he was! I was expecting the beginning of the Gloria from Beethoven's Missa Solemnis to pop up, pretty surprised it was not mentioned!
@maciejkubera1536
@maciejkubera1536 3 ай бұрын
Thank You again for al Your videos! :) There are two more interesting timpani passages in Haydn music, which are also worth noticing (even if not Your favorite). First is the kind of solo in the last movement of the "Paukenschlag" symphony. Ironically it's not the moment, because of which the symphony is named, although the timpani is much more noticeable there. The second one is in the oratorio "The seasons", in the recitative before the tempest scene. It's only piece I remember, in which the timpani plays during the recitativo secco, only with basso continuo and the singing voice. The mix of timpani and harpsichord sounds quite extraordinary.
@ezekielthiessen7080
@ezekielthiessen7080 3 ай бұрын
I had no idea that a piece for two flutes and five trumpets existed. In theory, it seems like a terrible idea, and it's wild that Mozart pulled it off.
@bucko5427
@bucko5427 3 ай бұрын
Excellent! This really illustrates how timpani and percussion can add to music.
@AndreaColombo-fx1wh
@AndreaColombo-fx1wh 2 ай бұрын
Percussion is amazing
@asaluk3149
@asaluk3149 3 ай бұрын
A thrill to hear this new Atkinson analysis, as always meticulously and exhaustively researched. Thanks again.
@johnedreslin
@johnedreslin 3 ай бұрын
Another great video. I hope you are planning more in this series!
@bradipoalvideo3
@bradipoalvideo3 3 ай бұрын
if you continue this series plese do not forget the 4th movement Berlioz's Symphonie Fantastique!
@michaelladarkangelsparkle9908
@michaelladarkangelsparkle9908 3 ай бұрын
Yassss! Great vid! And can't wait for the bear vid! 💖🎶 Yr vids are super incredible to listen to!
@filipp0tonelli
@filipp0tonelli 3 ай бұрын
I discovered your channel just few weeks ago and sometimes I find myself watching your videos for hours straight! They are very informative and add a ton of knowledge and technical details to my uneducated passion for classical music. Thanks a lot! As one who approached classical music through the operatic repertoire, I'm guessing why you are only seldomly touching on that enormous body of vocal and orchestral works. Are there are any chances you will ever analyze Verdi's overtures, which I personally find amazing?
@alextinlin4347
@alextinlin4347 2 ай бұрын
Excellent video as usual! May I suggest another honourable mention - the Dies Irae from Mozart’s Requiem - The tight interlocking trumpets and drums are so perfectly placed, it never fails to impress.
@johnchessant3012
@johnchessant3012 3 ай бұрын
15:56 I love Beethoven so much.
@derlowe4590
@derlowe4590 3 ай бұрын
Stunning!
@georgeharteman4083
@georgeharteman4083 3 ай бұрын
fantastic piece of work thank you
@user-wp4ju4hp5w
@user-wp4ju4hp5w 3 ай бұрын
I play timpani in my community Orchestra in Australia. My first teaching book was Modern Method For Tympani by Saul Goodman. I normally use the French grip but go to the German grip for loud sustained rolls My favourite timpanists are Vic Firth and Donald Koss.
@idiotbrando
@idiotbrando 3 ай бұрын
6:10 this part sounds like the first movement of Bach's Orchestral Suite no. 3
@gerbs139
@gerbs139 3 ай бұрын
Just to give Beethoven's concerti some love, don't forget the coda of the Emperor Concerto finale with its piano/timpani duet, and the very opening of the Violin Concerto, which has inspired some original cadenzas that include the timpani in duet with the violin soloist.
@AndreaColombo-fx1wh
@AndreaColombo-fx1wh 2 ай бұрын
Like Shostakovitch's Violin Concerto n.1!
@Sshooter444
@Sshooter444 3 ай бұрын
Will be expecting Schumann Symphony no 2 next time. Hopefully the Gardiner recording.
@Great_Poleaxe
@Great_Poleaxe Ай бұрын
never occurred to me someone would anaylze this k 239. i kept listening to it in my 20s. never known it's numbered k239 until today
@leylinegoddess
@leylinegoddess 3 ай бұрын
my personal favorite is beethoven's 8th. i heard it first while driving and had to stop and listen. the tympani got me.
@mischag
@mischag 3 ай бұрын
28:18 I’m currently a percussion student at university and I was very pleased to see one of Beethoven’s best timpani moments show up! This roll is actually almost impossible (I mean, try to sing it as fast as the recording), so often, timpanists will remove one note (therefore filling the bar with 8 notes).
@Richard.Atkinson
@Richard.Atkinson 3 ай бұрын
Kind of like the opening theme of the finale of Symphony 8 (the purple one in this video) that often sounds like 4 notes instead of 6, when played by an entire violin section. Which makes the slower triplets played by the timpani and winds later sound like 3 against 4 instead of 3 against 6!
@dzinypinydoroviny
@dzinypinydoroviny Ай бұрын
Just out of curiosity: I play drums (not timpani) and the roll you are referring to is probably not that hard to play on, say, a snare drum. I would just do three triple strokes (i. e. "bouncing"). Is it not possible to do that on timpani?
@mischag
@mischag Ай бұрын
@@dzinypinydorovinyIt is possible, and some people do it. The problem is, it’s very hard to get the same volume on each note as multi-bounce strokes naturally decay (as you must be well aware). On snare maybe you could do some fancy finger action and get them all the same volume, but I can’t think of anybody who has endeavoured to do that on timpani-at this speed-yet. It also may be a difference of the American timpani school versus the European timpani school…that’s a discussion that would warrant several paragraphs!
@mischag
@mischag Ай бұрын
@@dzinypinydorovinyAlso worth mentioning at this speed, the wayfaring listener would likely not notice a difference between 9 and 8 notes!
@derekdavid1
@derekdavid1 3 ай бұрын
YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ITS HERE!!!!!!!!!!!
@michelangelociarlo4281
@michelangelociarlo4281 3 ай бұрын
I think the beginning of violin concerto and the coda of third piano concerto's first movement have to be in this video (speaking about Beethoven, of course)
@Fakery
@Fakery 3 ай бұрын
How do you so consistently find such great recordings for each of these works?
@natheniel
@natheniel 3 ай бұрын
wait how did u know i just found out those two mozart pieces, did u stalked my watch history???? 🤣
@shevek5934
@shevek5934 3 ай бұрын
I'm pretty sure you can hear on the last note of the final excerpt that the timpanist on this recording joins in with a D.
@Richard.Atkinson
@Richard.Atkinson 3 ай бұрын
I thought that at first too…
@zhihuangxu6551
@zhihuangxu6551 3 ай бұрын
The Mozart "timpani concerto" was one of the background music repeatedly played at my former workplace building (so I was obsessed and almost bored with most of the passages you talked about here). I, without further knowledge, deemed it correctly to be Mozart, and the motif at 5:01 made me think of the similar motif of Beethoven 8th Symphony, which you miraculously also put in this same video that officially introduced me of the origin of that "background music", namely at 22:19 (!) (though not even nearly the first time this motif appears in this movement) (you know, I'm a Beethoven expert) Striking coincidence
@ze_rubenator
@ze_rubenator 3 ай бұрын
Hah! I had the exact same thought. Seems to be an intentional quote by Beethoven, don't you think?
@zhihuangxu6551
@zhihuangxu6551 3 ай бұрын
​@@ze_rubenator Without further knowledge, I tend to consider this to be nothing more than a coincidence, as the Mozart piece is in moderate tempo and Beethoven piece is prestissimo. Btw there's even some guy below @johnchessant3012 who also shares our ideas!
@Richard.Atkinson
@Richard.Atkinson 3 ай бұрын
Yes, I’m annoyed that I didn’t point this out!
@henrystratmann807
@henrystratmann807 3 ай бұрын
Yet another superb presentation! To your fine sample of great timpani/bass drum moments from the Big Three of the Classical era, let me add a few more from Haydn: --His opera "L'incontro improvviso" (1775) has essentially the same plot as Mozart's later "Die Entführung aus dem Serail" (1782) and also includes "Turkish" percussion. In Haydn's case those are two tuned bass drums and cymbals that are used in the overture and several pieces during the opera. (Landon, Haydn: Chronicle and Works, Vol. 2, 262-65) --In the first movement of the "Surprise" symphony Haydn introduces an innovation for the timpani. Instead of just retuning them between movements to match a change of key, he has the player retune one of them from the overall tonic of G to A during that opening movement itself (measure 79). He can then use that latter note as the dominant for a passage in D minor during the development section. Afterwards the timpanist retunes back from A to G for use during the recapitulation. (Landon, Haydn: Chronicle and Works, Vol. 3, 527-28.) --The "Chorus of the Danes" (1796) features a very aggressive, sometimes solo timpani part. --The "Te Deum" No. 2 in C Major (1798-1800--exact date uncertain) is, to my knowledge, the first work by any of the aforementioned three masters to end with a (fortissimo) drumroll. The next one I know of is the finale (also in C Major) of Beethoven's 5th (1808). --The last of the three (two of which you mention) Haydn works with "kettledrum" in their nicknames is the "Missa in tempore belli" (1796), aka the "Paukenmesse" due to its prominent, dramatic use of threatening timpani in the concluding Agnus Dei section. There are other examples I can think of, but these should suffice.
@Richard.Atkinson
@Richard.Atkinson 3 ай бұрын
I almost included some of these, but the video already too long.
@henrystratmann807
@henrystratmann807 3 ай бұрын
@@Richard.Atkinson Perfectly understandable. The examples you did use were very apropos and presented in your always excellent, educational, and entertaining manner. Your comment on K. 239 being a kind of timpani concerto reminded me of some Classical period works that are full-fledged ones, using multiple timpani. I am thinking in particular of those by Georg Druschetsky (1745-1819), such as his Concerto for 6 Timpani and Orchestra or another Concerto for Oboe and 8 Timpani. While hardly Great Works of Western Music, it is interesting to hear timpani used for a change as true “melodic” instruments. Any chance those or similar works might appear in a future addition to your series?
@Richard.Atkinson
@Richard.Atkinson 3 ай бұрын
@@henrystratmann807 I’m adding these to my listening list!
@henrystratmann807
@henrystratmann807 3 ай бұрын
@@Richard.Atkinson Great! There are multiple performances of both works on KZfaq. For the Concerto for 8 Timpani and Oboe I recommend the live performance by Kolberg Percussion. It has a very “Surprising” cadenza starting at about 9:45.
@mirrormoonknight856
@mirrormoonknight856 3 ай бұрын
My favorite timpani moment in all Beethoven would probably be found in the coda of the ninth, first movement. The recordings I've heard do not make justice to that part, though. Speaking of which, it would be fun if you included a tangent in a video of passages which have not been made justice (or where often the point is missed) in the recprdings you have heard so far.
@emilianodorantes2434
@emilianodorantes2434 3 ай бұрын
We need Part 3 with late romantic composers!! Please 🙏
@Richard.Atkinson
@Richard.Atkinson 3 ай бұрын
Working on that now!
@paxmen2264
@paxmen2264 3 ай бұрын
hmmmm, ACHKCHUALLY at 22:39 it's the 2nd horn that takes on the octaves (though the bassoons pick them up like 15 bars later so fair enough)
@Richard.Atkinson
@Richard.Atkinson 3 ай бұрын
Oh yikes. Embarrassing for me! 😂
@caterscarrots3407
@caterscarrots3407 3 ай бұрын
I was wondering if you would cover Wellington's Victory in this video and you did cover that and so much more, thanks. I've heard that those obsessive fortes in Beethoven that you mention in regards to the Symphony no. 9 Scherzo mean "Keep it loud and accent these notes where the forte is marked, as though they are sforzando but without the s".
@RiccardoP1983
@RiccardoP1983 3 ай бұрын
I expected to find Vivaldi's Juditha Triumphans
@SebLP97
@SebLP97 3 ай бұрын
In the last few bars of the Adagio of Beethoven's 9th there's a passage where both timpani drums sound simultaneously (tuned B flat and F). I've always found that interesting because it's rather rare. Does this happen anywhere before Beethoven('s 9th)?
@Richard.Atkinson
@Richard.Atkinson 3 ай бұрын
I’m not sure I know of a previous example of a timpani “double stop” in orchestral music (though probably one exists?), but in non orchestral music, there’s always that march for 4 timpani composed by Andre Philidor in the 1600s that includes chords (though played by two timpanists).
@zhihuangxu6551
@zhihuangxu6551 2 ай бұрын
The dominant timpani being above the tonic one helps this effect of a fifth in the base happen. Otherwise it would become a 46 chord and mess things up.
@opsec5400
@opsec5400 3 ай бұрын
You cover the Beethoven symphonies a lot, but what about the Missa Solemnis? The Gloria or Agnus Dei would have fit right into this series, and the counterpoint in its various fugues and fugatos is outstanding. Is there any reason you don’t seem to pay attention to it?
@Richard.Atkinson
@Richard.Atkinson 3 ай бұрын
Someday I'll talk about the Missa Solemnis!
@Skizze37
@Skizze37 3 ай бұрын
Timpani cadenza? Surely you meant drum solo.
@kneza96BG
@kneza96BG 3 ай бұрын
Part 3 better include Stravinsky
@Richard.Atkinson
@Richard.Atkinson 3 ай бұрын
He’ll either be in part 3 or 4 (if there end up being 4).
@vernacularbarnarchitecture
@vernacularbarnarchitecture 3 ай бұрын
I can only hear timpani now
@dudel39
@dudel39 3 ай бұрын
I dont see Bruckner 8th 4th movement! My dissapointment is immeasurable.
@Richard.Atkinson
@Richard.Atkinson 3 ай бұрын
Stay tuned.
@kaypie3112
@kaypie3112 3 ай бұрын
Oh for Heaven’s sake- You beat me to it by 14 minutes😂
@hunterac45
@hunterac45 3 ай бұрын
Not to brag but I was the 69th like
@LudwolfBeethozart1485
@LudwolfBeethozart1485 3 ай бұрын
Timpani before Beethoven: I sleep Timpani with and after Beethoven: REAL SHIT
@josephwragg6723
@josephwragg6723 3 ай бұрын
My school orchestra did a tour across China in 2019, and one of the things we played was the Mozart Serenata Notturna. I can promise you for the entire 2 week tour every one of us had the presto main them stuck in our heads! Don't worry, the other works we were doing were much, much more interesting haha.
@Richard.Atkinson
@Richard.Atkinson 3 ай бұрын
Yes, the orange theme is also catchy (like many returning rondo themes) but I still think the green theme is even catchier!
@jocelinrose9108
@jocelinrose9108 2 ай бұрын
🤩 "Promo sm"
@grahamnancledra7036
@grahamnancledra7036 3 ай бұрын
Bar-roque?????? Try saying BAr-rrrrrock. It's more accurate. And as if Mozart knew that the first two rolls were V7-1 cadences. What a lot of bull you musicologists talk. Mozart put the rolls in because it just FIT! Get it? It's as simple as that.
@Richard.Atkinson
@Richard.Atkinson 3 ай бұрын
😂 🤦🏼‍♂️
@teresagardiner153
@teresagardiner153 3 ай бұрын
What a very silly comment.
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