Colman is such a warm and engaging interviewer . He immediately makes the guest comfortable. He comes across as a really decent person

I find it so fascinating how people have to study and study and study different theories to discover things that are blindingly obvious. People spend their whole lives following a journey to where anyone with common sense began.

Having a child is a revelation you can't explain to someone who hasn't gone through it. It's an important transformation that many people these days are avoiding like it's the plague.

Harrington is so insightful, in both a theoretical and a personal way, and her voice is so warm and genuine: it's always a pleasure to hear her.

She is a person that is very open about herself, as Coleman remarked. Liked the conversation very much.

I never get bored of listening to Mary Harrington. I would have been happy if this had gone on for another 2 hours too. Great chat as always Coleman! And i like the new mech :)

this is a ridiculously fascinating conversation. Even by the very high standards I expect of Coleman, this is an exceptional pod. It is interesting to me that people who are worth listening to don't fit into the 'right/left' dynamic. I'm glad that Coleman brings nuance to complex issues instead of choosing a tribe and jamming shit down people's throats. Bravo man. Keep it up.

I’ve read a lot of Mary’s work on Unherd and enjoyed a lot of her podcast interviews. So great to hear a little more of her backstory- can much better understand how and why she thinks the way she does. A very important thinker, indeed.

Really enjoyed this conversation. I immediately downloaded the audiobook of her book “Feminism Against Progress” and started listening - great stuff. Thanks for having conversations like this Coleman!

Best book I read this year!! ❤ God bless you, Mary.

It's very refreshing how much and how willing Mary is able to hold herself accountable for past wrong-doings and ill-natured beliefs. Introspection and humility is sorely lacking in much of today's discourse which in turn eliminates anything resembling nuance and good faith. I hope to see many more with her degree of self-reflection rising up in the intellectual and political landscape.

I have her book and could listen to Mary for hours. Thanks for having her on, Coleman, and Happy New Year!

This was good. Mary is an extremely insightful social critic with a timely message that people should engage with, whether they're largely in agreement or not. Coleman has become a fantastic interviewer. He keeps his guests and their ideas in focus; even when he's inserting personal anecdotes, they're highly relevant and genuinely additive to the conversation, not self-aggrandizing. The one time I remember him getting a bit testy was with Neil deGrasse Tyson, who's pomposity was so unbearably performative during that discussion that Coleman had to put his foot down, but his default disposition is one of humility and grace and appreciation for the thinkers that he speaks with, and it makes for really revealing explorations of the ideas that they contend with.

Excellent conversation! Thanks for the great content Coleman!

I'm male, but with such an upbringing, disposition, and education to make me familiar and interested in feminism. I'm reading more about the movement all the time, both the pro-feminists and those more critical of the movement. I think Mary Harrington is one of the most rational, cogent speakers on this topic. She definitely brings a different perspective on the topic, offering recognition for the feminine problem and compassion for women in the 21st century that conservative voices too often lack, but offering more than talking points and herd mentality that Feminism typically presents. A very thoughtful interview, sir.

"Women and femenists are responsible for the breakdown of the family"- in my experience, it has been the men who abandoned or abused the women who caused the breakdown of the family, leaving women alone to work and raise kids.

I'll listen wherever i notice MH has landed. It did seem like Coleman got more from her than I've heard before. Just for example, i believe i hadn't heard her link unemployability & ideology yet. So now her twenties are a cautionary tale I could've used in my twenties.

I was unemployable for 20 years. I knew it at the time. I fought like hell for the grace that I needed to maintain employment. It is a sucky place. It doesn’t always get better.

We have created a culture where humans exist for the economy rather than designing the economy to serve human beings. But notice that neither the Left nor the Right has advocated mandatory accounting in the schools since Sputnik.

Great discussion. I'll definitely look into Mary's book!

"How did we end up with a mother shaped blind spot?" What a line!!!

Brilliant insights, thank you for having her on. Such an important voice!

This was one of the easiest to relate to, most compelling interviews you or anyone has ever given. Bravo to you and to your guest. She is a thinker who has in fact actually, truly, really thought deep thoughts and then explained them clearly and convincingly to the likes of me. At least for me, this interview is now the gold standard against which all others are measured.

Incredible conversation!! Thank you ❤️

Awesome interview Coleman! Always insightful

Great. A Coleman video in my stalking! Merry Christmas!

Great interview!

Such a great interview. I just discovered this channel and became an instant fan of them both.

Mary Harrington is both wicked smart and delightfully weird. I love her awkward random giggles at things she finds funny. And Coleman, having kids will be the most important thing you ever do. That it has come to be seen as a negative among so many young people is the mlst glaring sign that our culture is deeply sick.

Excellent! Once again. Coleman embodies the best of a thinking class.

This was a brilliant interview. Thanks, Coleman and Mary!

This was fantastic Thank you both sincerely 🕊 Are we awake now🕊

Amazing interview! 🤯👏👏👏🤯

I was asked when I ran for Parliament if I was a 'feminist'. My answer was that it depended on your definition. Mine answer was, 'feminism is women living life as much as possible on their own terms, our society providing the tools (legal and substantive) for that to be possible, and that this would liberate men at the same time.' I wonder if Mary would agree. Great interview and book.

Groundnews - The idea of my first KZfaq channel which I didn't follow through as very soon I got burned out in scanning through all news and level of bias that becomes apparent in every para and choice of words. Thankfully someone has had wisdom and acumen to build a product out of it. All the best to them and hope there are more like them

Another great episode ❤

Great interview. Good luck with your distance running in the year ahead, Mary.

Fantastic interview - looking forward to reading the book. (p.s. Looking at the merchandise here - if I took a COLORBLIND mug to work I'd be be hauled into the HR office for disciplinary action..)

Amazing conversation. I immediately ordered her book and can't wait to consume it.

What an amazing guest and what a timely conversation on topics that concern so many women today who are confused or mislead by the new wave feminist ideologies.

It’s a beautiful thing when a woman is unafraid to be a woman, and to let men be men.

45.50 'Our entry into the transhumanist era, where we accepted in principle that medicine is not just there to fix things that are wrong but sometimes to break things that are working as they should in the name of personal freedom.' Some important ideas in this talk. Thanks. I had not heard of Mary Harrington before.

Thank you for this content! 😊

Incredible channel ! Thank you !

Wow, what an unexpected, yet fully flushed out set of points. It’s very hard to find any flaws in her arguments. Well conducted, Coleman!

great one

Mary's great, so is Louise Perry, pls have on LP. I'm 32, I'd almost say my fav ppl are Louise, Coleman, Yeonmi Park, mainly because they're close to my age, and either high profile intellectuals doing great work, or nearly Ayaan-level heroes (Yeonmi). With that said, it doesn't mean I always agree. I tend to follow Louise's work more closely, who's a little more my generation. However, I'm a US Centrist Liberal, which pretty much matches Coleman. I'm not a moderate Conservative, either UK or US (like Mary, or Louise). Therefore, I'd appreciate if Coleman would consider engaging debate a little more, with Mary or Louise in future convos (to reiterate, these are a bunch of my fav ppl. Hearing the healthy disagreements helps me clarify my thoughts).

Great conversation

Thank you!!

What a Christmas treat ❤

Love the socks Colman. Great conversation.

Love both Mary and Coleman... I vote for another episode, 3 hours this time!!

I am hear after watching Coleman Hughes on Bill Maher. Coleman was very good. I am now a subscriber to Coleman's channel. Brilliant interview.

Great guest❤

Thanks!

Can’t wait to get into Ground News. It sounds like just what the world needs.

Thank you our Beautiful Mary for attending unto our Beautiful and Heirs Hosts! Conversation come Here!

Thank you

WOW just read the NYT piece on you - well done bro!!!!

Our parents don’t want to babysit, considering as an eldest daughter I pretty much was the nanny for my brothers. Even if they wanted to, job opportunities don’t exist in our home states so we don’t even live close to them. Bring back the community model and extended families.

My opinion is that all children should do chores of some sort ... And chores done should help the family out plus create discipline with humility for the kids ...

So the woman who enjoys being a mother wants to restrict the rights of women who don’t want to reproduce. She’s an eloquent speaker but dead wrong.

“What I would love to see is a world where all babies are welcomed without that coming at the expense of their mothers’ personhood”

The description of “who does the dishes” sounds out of the 1960s, not the 1990s. That was my experience as a kid in the 1960s, but by the time I had a child in the 1990s, cooking and doing the dishes were tasks equally shared by myself and my wife.

1:00;00 Ha, the example of women not being there to vote for their own interest on day care made me think about what you said earlier about men prioritizing aspects of medicine around their own assumptions. One group not being aware of another's priorities is not specific to sex/gender.

Coleman rocking the Naruto socks though 😂 love it

4:51: "Who does the dishes is the perennial question." There is another perennial question: Who goes to war and dies for his country; and who interposes himself between the sniper and the children, and takes the bullet to save his family?"

I’m glad to see you had similar thoughts about Barbie.

Outstanding stuff!!!!!

Such a great point around 42:00 in. 🧐

Mary is fantastic. Sweetly weird. And I can't wait for Coleman to have a bunch of kids. ❤🎉

I couldn’t watch Barbie past the point where the little girls smashing the heads of their baby dolls was framed as a epically monumental step forward for civilization. That was so ugly.

The father worked to pay for everything and so the mother had a different role. But, as a female, she could not see that and demanded that not only should the father giver her everything but take over her contribution as well. A true Feminist.

17:00 the irony of "rebelling against the norm" being a cultural norm... these are the seeds of nihilism.

Interesting to hear a nuanced conversation about how transhumanism plays into this topic.

37:40-38:38 is one of those string of statements that are so truthful and devastating you just have to laugh at the absurdity anyone believed otherwise.

"Although it fits with my principles, I couldn't recommend that because it would change things so fast" Things change quickly sometimes. Look at the massive drop in fertility rates after Roe was declared. Sometimes you just have to rip off the bandage, especially if it covers rot.

There are a few positions from people I truly cannot comprehend. One of them is the idea that we don't have enough people on the planet and that the slight decline in birth rates in developed nations is somehow a catastrophe waiting to happen, while in developing nations the birth rate is exponentially increasing.

Wish this was 3 hours. Bought her book.

1:02:58 omg same. When I saw Barbie I expected they would end up with equality. It felt wrong to me. Maybe that's because I was lucky enough to not grow up believing I was inherently inferior to men.

Coleman goated for rocking the Akatsuki socks

Great episode! I haven’t listened yet, but I know I will enjoy it.

How can I play Coleman at 1.25x and Mary at 0.75x ?

Choice... Making music in the 90's, I went from 4 channels of bass, guitar, drums, keyboard to a computer with an infinite amount of channels and instruments. Six months later I stopped making music.

Freedom comes with responsibility

More than half my lifetime ago when I was a teenager, my girlfriend started on the pill; the cute and sweet girl I began dating ... well I'll just say she changed. But the one of the ways sex complicates things is that it ratchets up the seriousness of our relationships, so we stayed together way longer than we should have. I believe that we're best off waiting until marriage to have sex. It's not easy to do, but it is better.

They're not "anti-hierarchy." They're authoritarian and opposed to any hierarchy they do not control ideologically.

I’m a bit puzzled by the “dishes dilemma”. It doesn’t sound like any family I’ve ever known for the last 50 years. Just sounds like laziness, which has no gender bias.

It was always men I was dating who tried to convince me to go on the pill. I tried it twice, both times at the behest of men who casually said “Why don’t you go on the pill?” Because to them it was no big deal, and would make their lives more convenient. It made me depressed, anxiety riddled, and gave me terrible acne. The worst part? It absolutely destroyed my sex drive. Effectively medically castrating me. Part of me wondered if that was a feature, not a bug. It upset me that nobody seemed to think that was an issue. As long as it convenienced men, what was the problem if I no longer found any enjoyment in the act? Even my own mother made ignorant remarks about how “there’s no excuse anymore for a woman to become accidentally pregnant.” I didn’t bother correcting her that the pill is a horrible idea, and not at all effective if you can’t take it. I’m so glad to now stumble upon more and more young women who aren’t afraid to talk about how not ok the pull is.

🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation: 00:00 🔄 *Mary Harrington shares her journey from a liberal, postmodernist perspective in her youth to questioning those beliefs after facing personal and professional challenges.* 08:33 🔄 *The collapse of a startup she co-founded led to a profound reevaluation of her beliefs, and she transitioned from an anti-hierarchical, postmodern worldview to a more grounded and questioning stance.* 17:15 🔄 *Mary discusses the allure of the American dream's promise of total freedom, self-invention, and rebellion against norms but highlights the potential burden of endless self-searching and lack of anchoring.* 18:23 🔄 *Reflecting on feminism, Mary critiques the idea that one can construct their gender entirely divorced from the influence of their body, emphasizing the importance of accepting and working with the given aspects of our physiology.* 21:05 🔄 *Mary argues that accepting the inherent aspects of our physiology can be more liberating than attempting to escape them, as the latter leads to a perpetual pursuit that cannot truly be outrun.* 21:31 🤰 *The embodiment significantly influences how individuals perceive the world, and women's hormonal cycles can shape their unique relationship between object and subject.* 22:00 🤱 *The speaker found peace with her own body through motherhood, realizing the lack of control and the visceral connection to her child, challenging the notion of freedom as separateness.* 23:24 🤯 *The experience of feeling more than one person but less than two after childbirth challenges conventional notions of freedom and individuality, prompting a reevaluation of feminist ideals.* 29:36 💊 *The second-wave feminism, influenced by reproductive technologies like birth control and abortion, marginalized voices advocating for the importance of motherhood and care, favoring a pursuit of sameness.* 38:17 🩸 *The speaker highlights dissatisfaction with the pill among younger women, emphasizing the unexpected consequences of the sexual revolution, challenging the notion that it solely benefited women's freedom.* 43:16 🚺 *Mary Harrington initially leaned towards a "safe, legal, and rare" stance on abortion but later found that the legalization of abortion marked a decisive victory for the feminism of freedom over the feminism of care. She sees it as a clear expression of prioritizing individual freedom over the needs of a vulnerable dependent.* 44:37 🔄 *The legalization of abortion and the availability of the contraceptive pill are intertwined, with the societal changes brought about by the pill leading to a surge in unplanned pregnancies. Harrington argues that legal abortion becomes a consequential demand once reliable contraceptives are in place.* 46:02 🔄 *Abortion and the pill represent the entry into the transhumanist era, where medicine is not just about fixing things gone wrong but also breaking things that are working as they should, all in the name of personal freedom.* 49:15 🤔 *Harrington expresses concern about a society that grants personhood based on the extent to which individuals can escape their biological roles, particularly emphasizing the idea that freedom should not be defined by evading motherhood.* 54:19 🌍 *The declining birth rate is discussed, noting the challenges in Western societies where economic growth and progress theology make singlehood attractive while the experience of having a child and a family hasn't evolved significantly. The structural anti-natalist nature of the culture, economy, and politics is highlighted.* 01:03:21 🌐 *The movie's unexpected ending, keeping Ken as second-class citizens, reflects real-life struggles of men and women negotiating how to live together.* 01:03:50 🔄 *Fundamental discussions about men and women living together boil down to the reproduction of the next generation.* 01:04:05 🧬 *While not everyone must have kids, the meaning of life involves reproduction, a necessary aspect for life to continue.* 01:05:14 🚹 *The loss of male single-sex sociality, influenced by the push for unisex spaces, has been an undercounted cost, impacting men's social networks.* 01:07:16 🔄 *Feminism has contributed to the decline of male social spaces, and a more balanced approach is needed to preserve such spaces.* Made with HARPA AI

Haven’t seen you in a couple months but nice work on improving your robotic demeanour 👏-- I hope this is coming across as earnest

At approimately an hour in, MH mentions 'Schmidtean [?] logic'. Forgive my ignorance - what is she referring to here?

Thank you so much for this wonderful discussion! I would like to add (at mid-point) that abortion extremely discounts the psychological damage that results. A woman who miscarries is given the space to grieve and process. The woman who experiences an abortion has no such freedom - she must suppress in the name of “liberation”. Why aren’t women who say they care about women reaching out to to teach young, inexperienced women (and men) about the severe responsibility attached to a sexual union?

Wow, I’m surprised at the number of folks who don’t think the “doing the dishes” issue still exists. Yes, it’s still an issue.

@colemanhughesofficial will you posting your recent Comedy Cellar talk with IOF soldiers? We all want to hear it.

My response to those who believe in the Judith Buttler tosh is always, "go on then, be what you think you want to be" There usually follows a torrent of reasons why they can't.

"The new hookup culture.. it fit quite well with the factory setting of men" lmfao love it

One definite reason for a declining birth rate is that many men don't view a marriage or family as a viable option, regardless of whether or not they want it. While social attitudes and incentives do push many to remain single, also at fault is a complete failure between the sexes of communication, trust, and a broken legal system. Men see marriage as a scam, something in which they have everything to lose (kids, wife, money, house, etc.) to a broken legal system while women see it as a patriarchal con to be reverse-played. In such a situation, the question, really, is who WOULD get married?

Who will feed to give increase? Old minds where increase belongs? For Thee! Keep watch!

One of the most horrible parts of modern-day feminism is the fact that it’s deprived women of the experiences that Mary was describing at the beginning of the interview. Failures and disappointments, and also the capacity to self-critique and hold oneself accountable. We all go through shit, men and women. Most men and women just say “¯\_(ツ)_/¯ not my fault, somebody else fucked up not me” and dont change, women more so (due mainly to modern woke liberalism enabling them). Mary didnt though, she went through shit and blamed herself instead, and she’s better off because of it. Bravo to her, I have a ton of respect for her as a result.