I got the impression that the twelve were somewhat like Elidibus at the end of Pandaemonium. The remainder of the original person's soul infused with additional memories. Hence why they remembered us somewhat from Elpis.

I always felt like destroying a soul in a setting like this is a truly horrifying thing. It's why the Final Days were so horrible. Turning into a Blasphemy rotted away all the Aether of the soul, leaving nothing. So many souls gone forever.

Venat and all of their absolute sacrifice reminds me of my favorite quote (from Epsilon in RvB): "There are so many stories where some brave hero decides to give their life to save the day and because of their sacrifice, the good guys win, the survivors all cheer, and everybody lives happily ever after. But the hero never gets to see that ending. They’ll never know if their sacrifice actually made any difference. They’ll never know if the day was really saved. In the end, they just have to have faith. Ain't that a bitch."

the battle between zodiark and hydaelyn is somethong i would like to see (maybe as an echo flashback)

Dives into the Unsundered World always get my attention!

I only really got one thing to add to that last part there. I think Hades would approve. After all, he said it himself. "Remember us. Remember we once lived."

True!...But our WoL when they were still "Azem" was against the whole thing About Hydaelyn and Zodiark, because probably our Azem did not wanna see the most important people to them die just like that they did not wanna see Themis and Venat die just like that cus they were too important for our Azem.

Since the First's Crystal Tower is still connected to the Unsundered timeline, I hope we get to eventually go back there someday and spend more time with Venat and meet the original Ancients the Twelve were based on.

Thank you for explaining that the world is still, in fact, called Hydaelyn. Ive had a few people tell me that im wrong for calling it that lol. I guess people forgot that the first thing you hear when you create your character is Louisioux telling you the name of the Star.

hold on a moment. then why after you defeat all of the twelve they say they will go to the lifestream to be reborn in later time? that would mean it's their real souls, and they were not consumed.

EW Alliance spoilers The gods' talk about departure and meeting again on the other side makes it sound like they aren't just soulless creations of Hydaelynn but true Ancients that have done their job and are returning to the star

Lalafel do just fine without souls.

amazing job

I mean, from another point of view sacrifice of people forming Zodiark is not any higher than that forming Haedelyn - sure, their souls survived but personality, memories etc., all that makes us human, did not. If I reuse wood of my table to make chairs that table does not exist anymore so the only difference is permamently lowering population number unless new souls emerge with rest being purely cultural.

We can call the Source as Hydaelyn while including the shards as Etheirys since Etheirys is the unsundered star. Imo

Wait…were the supporters of Venat the Twelve Gods and the Watcher? The Twelve Gods must have known also Zodiark and Hydaelyn?!?

Scribe! I just now saw you made it on to state of the realm a few days ago! Congratulations man im pretty sure as far as the ff14 community goes theres no clearer sign that youre now one of big leaguers then that

the only correction I'd make here; I don't believe Venat actually sacrificed her own soul for Hydaelyn. She remained so that she could be Hydaelyn's "heart", just like how Elidibus became Zodiark's. When we meet Hydaelyn in Endwalker, the game allows us to explicitly call her Venat instead of Hydaelyn. It's the same person in that Primal suit; just also backed up by the aether of the souls of thousands of Ancients. The way you presented it makes it seem like Venat was just one of the masses who's soul was destroyed forever, that Hydaelyn is its own entity entirely separate from Venat. I don't think that's the case, though.

It’s sad, sure. But it is a for sure thing Venat and her colleagues left behind something that won’t go away with their passing. And it’s quite beautiful in a way. Their love, their will, and their hopes.

....Your use of the term "oblivion" made me feel extra sad about the triangle of characters I've been connecting in my brain. Minfillia, Ysayle, and Ryne. I am... just SO SAD RIGHT NOW. The way that oblivion was met by such... lovingly like-minded people.

I mean, not all hope is lost to the Ancients, even to those who were sacrificed to create Hydaelyn. With the ability of the Crystal Tower, there's nothing stopping a sufficiently motivated civilization from either preventing the Final Days feom even happening, or at worst individually plucking people from the past and sending them into the future.

I gonnna cry

This brings a whole new level to the Lopperit tribe quests.....I'm not ok 😢

“Remember us. Remember that we existed.” -Emmet Selch AKA Hades😢

it does make me question what we see in the credits, with Venat walking with the other ancients

Great video as always! The hardest hitting moment for me in the 6.0 MSQ was the post 89 trial. You can choose the dialogue option "We will find our way Venat" and she cries before truly leaving. It was a direct response to the conversation you have in Elpis : "And amidst it all a people. Beacons of light and life. Laughter that warmed my heart like naught else before. They are my meaning and my purpose. My love. And so long as they need help, I cannot return to the star. Perhaps my future self is still waiting for it. The moment she can let go and walk unto the end... Safe in the knowledge that man will find his own way." The sacrifice that Hydaelyn and her followers made was not glamourous, but it was made in the attempt to preserve life moving forward.

Isn't the Mothercrystal the aether she's "owed" as a primal? I was under the impression that, yes, she would never use it gerself, but she kept it anyway as a last hope.

Venat's soul-death being a sacrifice would imply that she valued souls to begin with and I'd argue that she did not. She misled her followers into sacrificing their souls to her and she knew that in the future the sundered becoming blasphemies would result in their soul death (as far as the WoL knew). She's also the one whose plan involved irrevocably tearing every living being's soul apart and whose backup plan involved abandoning every soul on the shards to death. They're acceptable costs to her so, no, I don't believe she held any particular value to souls, including her own. She accomplished everything she wanted and went out on her own terms, so where was the sacrifice on her part? The sacrifice came from the decimation of the Ancients, the 12k years the Song of Oblivion was sung unchecked destroying untold stars while she waited for the WoL, and the shards that were obliterated in order to make that happen. There is no cost to life or souls that is too much for her. Personally, I'm glad the game is calling the star Etheirys because I don't believe Hydaelyn should in any way be celebrated. She is a textbook anti-villain that in any other scenario the Scions would've thoroughly condemned, in fact, 6.0 is a glaring outlier that exists solely to spare her from facing any judgment. Her motivations and methods are antithetical to the game's values regardless of the outcome and, as others have mentioned, Athena is her direct mirror who is denounced by all, Ancient and sundered alike. The Scions put in the place of the Ancients would've fought tooth and nail against her sentencing of their species just as they did Emet-Selch. The only difference is Venat "won" and it turns out the Scions become hypocrites when the mass slaughter of innocents benefits them, so now history is written from that perspective.

This is a good video, though I have a few nitpicks. 1. Aether does not simply disappear after being used. It appears to follow the same principles that matter and energy do in real life, in that it can't be created or destroyed, instead being converted into different forms. Proof of this is the Twelve's plan to return their aether to the star: expending it in their battles with the Warrior of Light. If aether simply ceased to exist after being used up, this plan wouldn't work. With that being said, it's safe to assume that if a soul is somehow destroyed, the aether that comprised it will disperse and eventually become something else rather than disappearing entirely. 2. Whether it's possible for a soul that's been destroyed to eventually reform is somewhat ambiguous. When Elidibus sacrifices himself to send the Warrior of Light back in time, he explains that the Crystal Tower will "consume every last mote of [his] essence." This pretty clearly implies that his soul will end up being destroyed in the process, and yet he remains optimistic about the possibility of reuniting with his friends in the Lifestream. This optimism ends up being justified, as we see his soul again near the end of the Pandæmonium questline. Whether this means he was wrong about the Tower consuming all of his soul or that it did consume all of it but he somehow managed to reform afterward isn't clear. There's also the example of Ardbert's companions, who allow Minfilia to absorb their souls in order to stop the Flood of Light, yet are seen reuniting with Ardbert at the end of 5.0. 3. One of the theories about the nature of reincarnation that Montichaigne explains is that souls are possibly reduced to pure aether in the Lifestream but combine with other aether to create new souls. He says that he considers such a possibility to be equally as likely as souls remaining whole within the Lifestream. It's established that living beings who venture into the Lifestream run the risk of having their souls dissolved by the currents, so it's theoretically possible that this is the case for souls of the dead that linger too long in the Lifestream as well and that this is a natural process. Emet-Selch does describe his and Hythlodaeus' souls as "half-faded" after the Warrior of Light summons them in Ultima Thule. This could also be used to explain why some people manifest the Echo while others don't: people with souls that have remained more similar to those of their Ancient selves have a higher chance of having their subconscious memories of the Final Days awakened. This is highly theoretical, though, and is more in the realm of headcanon than actual canon. 4. The Watcher and the Twelve are not mere simulacra created from the lingering memories of souls sacrificed to Hydaelyn. During the Omega questline in Endwalker, the Watcher explains that he was created from the essence of one of Venat's companions. He even says that the companion was reborn as him. The Watcher and the Twelve have inherited the souls of their Ancient incarnations. Either Hydaelyn was able to avoid expending all of the aether in their souls and recreated them from what was left behind, or they were wholly expended but she somehow found a way to reconstitute them. It's never revealed how exactly Venat's followers were able to reincarnate despite their sacrifice, so it's anyone's guess. Is this copium? Possibly, but I think a good amount of it is supported by things we're shown in the text. I think that even if the destruction of a soul isn't always permanent, the act of sacrificing your soul is still one that carries a lot of weight, as there's no guarantee that it will ever reform at all, let alone into anything remotely resembling your old self. I started giving this a lot of thought back when Yoshi-P clarified that Venat's soul was indeed burned away and a lot of people interpreted it very negatively. I like to interpret her fate in a more positive way. As Hydaelyn, she was separated from the people she loved so dearly for thousands of years. When she finally found release and all that made her up dissolved into the aetherial sea, she became one with the star she fought so hard to save. She will remain at the side of her beloved children forever, because she is now the current of life itself. "In the soothing summer rains and gentle spring breezes, She will be with you always." If any part of her will remains (which could theoretically be the case since we hear her voice one last time after using the last of her aether to bring the Scions back from the dead), I imagine she is in a state of eternal peace and contentment. She went out on her own terms, and even though her fate may sound grim at first, this was her happy ending.

I am curious. Were the souls of the people used to summon Shinryu consumed in that summoning in a similar fashion? Or was it closer to the way Zodiark was summoned?

What is the difference between Venat and the Twelve's sacrifices, compared to Elidibus' sacrifice sending us to Elpis? Elidibus does say that this should consume every last mote of his essence. I always assumed for that to mean soul sacrifice, but we see him in Pandæmonium, that is to say, the version of him that sent us to Elpis.

May i know how you can return to the restricted area of the Noumene ?

Venat is permanently dead as in she won’t even be reborn 😢

Well now I have a new pet peeve. "Thanks" being pronounced with a voiced dental fricative. I'm 40 and have never heard anyone pronounce it that way. I do enjoy your lore videos though.

I wonder why she chose to die instead of living on and see the beauty of the world like Oschon did. When she stepped down from the seat and not return to the star, it gave off a sense of wanting to live on forever to continue seeing the world she loved so much. We knew that by the time we faced her in the mother crystal, she had already used up all her follower’s soul and kept her soul as a last resource in order to fight us. But why does she have to fight us? (Please don’t say that bc it’s the end of the saga.) It makes no sense at all in terms of the story. We’ve already defeated Zodiark who at that point was 7/14 rejoined with 75% of the ancients soul still intact in him (obviously much stronger than her single soul.) And her fight mechanic has nothing to do with dynamis at all. Why choose to spend her entire soul to fight us? After fighting her we still have no solid proof that we can fight Meteion. Actually, we got nothing from killing her. Spending her soul to the point where she can never be born again feels weird and not necessary at all. She was able to keep part of her followers’ souls and make them into the twelve. Why can’t she do the same to herself? Then after the fight, she can return to the star like the twelve did and wait for a new adventure, or she could form a new body like Oschon and roam the world forever. But no, she chose to end herself by using us. Even Elidibus as the heart of Zodiark was able to withdraw part of himself and continue to live in order to carry out his mission and finally return to the aetherial sea after his death. Or is it because she saw that mankind can finally walk on their own without her guidance so she can RIP now? But isn’t that suixide? I’ve seen fandom call it just that when the ancients choose to return to the star after accomplishing something. Then what’s the difference here? It’s completely go against her own character. If we can still live on we have to keep forging ahead. Isn’t that the reason why she’s so in love with her sundered children? So I wonder why she decide to do that. Her death is not necessary at all.

I was always a little confused as to how the final days for the ancients differed from the one we experienced. Our final days was dynamis causing people that gave in to despair to transform into blasphemies but it was the creations of the ancients that started turning for them, correct? I guess theres just a piece of info here that is causing me to not understand.

This is why Venat is my favorite character in XIV despite the odds, the despair, and her oblivion destined to happen, her love and belief in humanity never waver. Thank you for paying homage to her and her partisans.

When you believe in reincarnation on our own Star

The sacrifices made to summon Hydaelyn must have taken some courage. To know that you will never again see the star you hope to save with no guarantee that it will work. While the same could be said of Zodiark, that was an act of desperation, made with less clear minds.

Thanks for pointing this out. A lot of the comments here make me seriously think that a pretty good chunk of the fanbase is braindead; Endwalker makes it pretty clear that Venat's whole point in the story is to help fight Meteion, but the amount of people that ignore that and say that she's just a genocidal psycho is insane. It gets made clear that she certainly feels guilty about what had happened, and that it paints her fight as assisted suicide, in a way. What she did was messed up, there's no questioning; thing is, it was to try an actually give the world a future. It gets made clear that the Ancients were either too stuck in the past - or Tempered by Zodiark - to be able to fight Meteion, and that the Sundering was basically a very risky plan to try and prepare humanity to be able to deal with Dynamis. The game makes it abundantly clear, and yet so many people ignore it...

Is this why I cried for an hour finishing the Myths of the Realm storyline? ToT (Having met some of those who became the Twelve in the side quests in Elpis made it worse)

Chills literally chills

hydaelyn's sacrifice its the truest and most impactful sacrifice i've ever seen in any lore.

Something that's kind of amiss here is the parallels one can draw to Buddhism. The life-stream perpetuates an endless cycle of life and death, in Buddhism this is called Samsara, (輪廻, rinne). The first truth of Buddhism is duhkha (苦), often translated as suffering, but rather more embodies unease at being incomplete, driven by craving and ignorance. The most prominent example of this is Hermes, but all the Ascians do in their own way. The general goal is to achieve enlightenment and become free from the cycle of life and death, Samsara, and to do so you need to accept and know the four great truths. When the End of Days came, the Ancients faced involuntary death for the first time as far as anyone could remember. Venes says "It was the first pain they ever felt, and it was unbearable. It shackled their hearts to the resplendent days when none knew of it." She asks her brethren to accept suffering as a constant companion, to engrave it upon their hearts and walk on, but they refuse. They long for their days of ignorance, and so they beseech Zodiark to absolve them from it and return them to the days already lost. Venes however, accepts duhkha, she sees, and understands, and in creating Hydelin, she breaks free from Samsara and becomes quite literally Enlightened. She reaches Nirvana. The idea that the soul is something inviolable and permanent comes from Abrahamic religions, there's no such thing in Buddhism. Venes became Hydelin. Hydelin still has the memories and experiences of Venes, but she isn't Venes.

Thanks for the spoiler warning - I'll be back once I catch up

Spoilers abound for me! I'll be back once I finish the MSQ and Thalia.

Its hard to comment on this because of where the story is currently. But Im confused about the part where their souls would not remain. If you're up to date on the msq then you know what im talking about.

Honestly she came off more like good version of Athena to me and overall anti villain you don't commit a genocide and still be called somebody who loves life. the fact that Yoshi p had to come out and say she was a "Good guy" speaks volumes on how people interpret her actions as amoral. Would have been better if her memory got erased as well but she stumbled her way forward like the rest of the heroes.

Didnt she say as she was dying that her soul would be reborn?

Woot

Our Mother gave everything for us. It would be an insult to refer to the world as anything else. Hydaelyn it shall forever be.

I agree with your closing thoughts a lot. The world we are on isn’t the same as the world populated by the ancients, not anymore. And the people inhabiting a place are the ones with the right to defuse its name. The citizens of the world call it Hydaelyn and so will I. Also think of it this way. No one is screaming that we have to call New York New Amsterdam instead because that was its original name. We accept that this is now it’s name

Venat/Hydaelyn is more of a rogue element than a positive figure. There are many reasons to criticize her. Her argument that suffering needs to be a companion is flawed when considering other beings and the inaccurate portrayal of dead ends. The implication is that being susceptible to Dynamis corruption is worse than death, as it erases everything, including the soul. I wouldn't consider it positive for her to grant her cronies godhood. The shattered form of the star is unnatural and we discovered this in the latest patches. The star attempts to rejoin itself, but the watchers on the moons hinder its return to normal. Her arrogant claim of being the embodiment of the stars will is almost akin to Athena.

If you watch the venat scene you get the whole "this is why we can't have nice stuff" vibe

I love Hydaelyn so much. Her story helped me get through a hard time. I want to get a tattoo of her.

I'm all in favor of keeping the name in memoria. I miss our mother.

Thank you, thank you for explaining this, hopefully more people will watch and finally understand what her passing meant :')

I'll never forget when we first meet Hydaelyn, and we hear Flow for the first time. Ahhh the emotions, the heartache 💔

I have to say, every time i learn something new about Zodiark and hydaelyn, i can't help but go back to the thought process: They made Zodiark to buy time so they could eventually deal with the problem, people get mad that Zodiark is exactly what they made him to be...A temporary solution. So they make an even worse version of him and mess everything up and make it even worse for everyone without trying to deal with the actual problem...And somehow im supposed to believe hydaelyn was the 'goodguy' in this scenario. Naa, Zodiark did nothing wrong, and Venat had a hero complex. Leaving us to clean up her even worse mess.

To be honest, I never got warm with the name "Etheris" anyway... and it was irrititating sometimes how easily NPCs around us started to use the name. And if you think about it, the world cant be named that anyway, since Etheris would be the world as it was, as a whole world, not a shard among many (even if it was the Source). So, yeah, Haydaelyn still sits better with me... I'm not so sure about your tale about the Twelve... After all, in the alliance raid, we see them saying their farewells and talking about "returning to the Star"... This implies to me, that despite everything being told a fraction of their souls lives on. Which... to be fair, I didnt like... I thought, like you said here, they were "snuffed out" into nothingness after fueling their creation... To be honest, I didnt get warm with the conclusion of the raid story... When you quest in Elpis, the Ancients often talk about "gods". Hell, even Lahabrea mentions "the Gods" in front of Athena, telling her that the meddeling with souls is not for men but gods. I had hoped to get something along that line... Not that the raid story was bad, it was quite good... but I had hoped for something else ^^°

That’s a great sacrifice to be made for the future to continue; for the greater good of the star. And also, that is a thoughtful notion to continue call the star “Hydaelyn” in eternal memory of not just Venat, but the countless others who continued to act for the star, not themselves and their vanity unlike the Zodiark-aligned Ancients.

This is why Mother Hydaelyn, is the only worthy god in this game.

Hydaelyn did nothing for the 13th , 1st and countless other shards worst she created the situation that alllowed them all to perish. She only actively helped her "Brave little spark" and damned every single other person who ever interacted with her. The 12 did nothing for eons. But special mention to Halone for doing fuck all during the dragonsong war and Nophica claiming the spirits act "out of love". Lets not forget how they collectively ignored Lousouxs pleas for help when Bahamut emerged (Thank goodness he said "Fine I'll do it myself") their suicide pact unironically makes the world a better place and good riddance. I only wish Oshon/Derek wasnt suchba coward and commited to the action. Hydaelyn's permanant death is the perfect punishment for her actions. Yes she was ultimately proven right but alot of people died and suffered due to her actions. Its fitting that she only live to see a world of suffering and die never to see that world move past her cruel test and even better the ones who she wronged get to enjoy reincarnation. Personally, I'll call the star Etheris in remembrance to the Ancients who gave up everything to give the star a fighting chance. Not Hydaelyn for the vain Eikon who dare call herself a goddess.

I think more people should stick to saying "Hydalin" and not "Eythiris" because I just freaking panic when some dweeb says it out loud in an rp venue around my sprout friend. All it takes is one "What's that?" "I can't say" and she'll be like "hmmmmmmm." -_-;;;

I'm pretty sure Athena is what Venat was supposed to be written as until Yoshi threw a tantrum behind the scenes and forced Ishikawa to rewrite everything. I've never seen a more inconsistent character or how ridiculous the writing has been trying to bend over backwards to forcefully get across how "good" she was despite her being little more than a genocidal, deceitful witch who massacred her own race. No, being turned into sundered jello does not mean they "survived" somehow when all relationships and ties to their past lives were effectively severed. Except for her co-conspirators apparently. The most useless pantheon and most botched creation mythos in the entire Final Fantasy franchise.

I don't like Hydaelyn at all. Instead of preparing a solution to problems that she knew way in advance were coming, she goes "haha, have ten thousand years of suffering and misery, one of you will eventually figure it out"

Zodiark wasn’t that powerful because as soon as he gets killed off in Endwalker, all of his work gets undone