If you go back to the area where you fight Dyne, you will find his grave with Marlene's picture on his gun

The scary part of all this is: once it’s done, it’s done.

The weirdest thing about the shipping segment of FF7 to me, even as a Clerith enjoyer, is that there's a refusal to acknowledge by a lot of people that you can love more than one person, even at the same time (despite how conflicting it is).

The Aerith trial was particularly touching. I was thinking about my own wife and daughter at the time and boy was it heartbreaking, but I also found it beautiful how Elmyra shows up to help her. It was done pretty well.

Seal you’re the best! Thank you for these long form videos! I have nobody to talk to about ff7 so these 3 hour videos are the closest I get to a real conversation about the game. Love your insight!

Holy shit. So if babyseal is right about the fight with aerith and sephiroth is taking place while cloud is dropping her in the water, that could be what she is referencing when she tells Cloud "I saw what you did for me back there" or however she says it. She could be thanking him for giving her a funeral or returning her to the planet or whatever

Gongagas music was pure magic. I didn’t mind the area either after all it was a jungle.

Been loving these deep dive spoiler conversations and getting different people's perspectives on the ending! I've beaten Rebirth about 2 weeks ago now and I can confidently say this is my favorite game of all time! I need part 3 now! Lol

Why is Cid/Ifalna implausible? Aerith is what 5-6 when they escape, so this is like 15-16 years later. Cid said Aerith was knee high to a tonberry and he was shorter, meaning he could have been in his teens. That would put him in his thirties at this point. We dont know how old Ifalna was, but a teenager being infatuated with a woman in her twenties isnt really far fetched. I mean, it still isnt my favorite plot point they added, but I think it’s plausible.

Superb analysis, great interview. Thank you.

One of the best things that’s come out of this Remake project, is in fact, Clark and his discussions with everyone. Absolutely love these. Thank you

Loved catching this on twitch the other day! Can't wait for more Seal Team 7.

Grateful for conversations like this where i feel like im amongst other ff7 super fans deep diving into everything in this game. About to start hard mode .

Sector 6 is the best! Yall have the best voices i stg could listen to yall all the time. Love to put on a theory cast as i go to sleep so calming

Damn you were right the stamps in junon and gold saucer were indeed a big mistake the recent patch fixed them.

Just rolled credits last night. Looking forward to catching up now. 💜

I must have the hot takes for Gongaga, I liked that it was difficult to get around (I didn't think it was that hard) and the Gongaga over world theme is my favorite of the six zones by a mile.

Random weird theory for Knights of the Round: KotR does 13 hits, so 13 protorelics, 13 members. Perhaps they can make the design resemble the 13 main characters of the single-player FF series so far 1. WoL 2. Firion 3. Onion Knight 4. Cecil 5. Bart 6. Terra 7. Squall 8. Zidane 9. Tidus 10. Vaan (change to Ashe?) 11. Lightning 12. Noctis 13. Clive Then the "guardian" of each protorelic is just a boss fight against a creature that is based on each of the corresponding big bads.

Sector 6 mentioned this discussion, cant wait for this banger

I believe the Stamps are there to guide us on what piece is from where. For example, main timeline is beagle, but Junon is based on Terrier hence why you see it there. The prime timeline is actively being built ( I believe ) by both Aerith and Sephiroth’s 4D chess match.

I hope part 3 is a wild swan song! Just goes hard, wild, be creative and give us an all new emotional ending!

Great video guys - really enjoyed it and some great details uncovered

Keep making these I need lots of podcasts to listen to while trying to do all the vr missions solo with all characters

Great lengthy but never boring discussion. Only thing, the music in the background is a bit loud and distracting at times. Thank you for the deep insights!

Let the Reunion begin!!!!!

28:25 One interesting thing I notced when watching a solo challenge play video of Sephiroth's playable bout in VR, is that Sephiroth says "I've got this" and "No holding back" during battle, which are things Cloud says in a very similar way during battle, even in Remake. It's a small detail but it really blew my mind when I noticed it. It shows that from Day 1 he's had parts of Sephiroth AND Zack's mannerisms adopted as his own. Nice and subtle

When Zack remembers Marlene talking to him in Chapter 14, it has a rainbow filter around the edges. This can tie the rainbow imagry to memories and not just choices.

Just started the hard mode after exams today. All I could say is I'm getting cooked. But at least this video is out so I can watch in my spare time!

Loved this video and all the thinking behind it. I want just to suggest another interpretation for the rift in the sky because to me the rainbow rift that Cloud sees in the end scene looks different somehow from the yellow rift seen in other "timelines". Could it be that the reunion of worlds has already happened (as pointed out by Sephiroth after killing Aerith) and, thus, the new rift is that mixed rainbow color because this is the "final world" where all the timelines are merged? This was my interpretation at least. Thanks as usual for the amazing conversations happening on Seal Team 7! Can't wait for more!!!

When you said the dream world is everyone that relates to Aerith, I feel like it’s similar to how it’s described in Maiden. (I think conceptually on how the world functions Maiden has a lot of it correct). Aerith is able to call upon consciousness of people she knows when she’s in the lifestream. And since LS is all encompassing in terms of time and space and consciousness, it’s irrelevant if a consciousness is currently dead or not in the Beagle-verse for them to appear. She is able to invoke the memories and consciousness of everyone that had a connection to her. So I’m still kinda iffy on the nature of the multiverse. I still think they could all be memory simulations inside the lifestream lol. And what people remember becomes their reality, so people in the LS simulation / Aerith’s dream believe they truly experiened them. I don’t think there’s an OG Aerith, it’s just physically alive Aerith and lifestream spirit Aerith.

I have a few things to leave here: 1- in Kalm we hear the radio narrating the events on "Zack's terrier watever" 2- on "Zack's Terrier watever" we hear the TV talking about "Cloud's beagle watever" and Biggs also "comes from/has memories of" the same Beagle watever 3- Maybe the Stamps are a signal that the worlds are leaking into each other. Overlapping 4- If Glenn is Clouds father and forgot about it, what reason I could come off with is " Mt Nibel" is full of mako. The place could have messed with him 5-Seph clearly states that multiple worlds are created when fate is defied/defetead, so multiverse is real, not a metaphor for Ls as some insist saying. But how does multiverse work? Would it be dimensional? Overlapping multi dimensional worlds?

I’ve been conflicted with the red sensing aerith part for a while, and while listening I think I’ve finally found something that makes sense. My initial viewing of the ending was that aerith was appearing alive to cloud to keep in together long enough, that she didn’t want him experience her death for whatever reason, and that him thinking she’s alive was part of her plan. Now I also had lots of thoughts of how this wouldn’t be something that could last through part 3 as I’m sure that immediately after a bit the party would get upset at cloud believing that she’s alive and that that would push them apart very quick with them all experiencing her death, and him being happy. When she appears to red, she’s making sure that the party understands why cloud is acting that way. If red can sense that there is still at least a part of her there, they won’t fight cloud about it as much. Interesting side note is the cosmo canyon proterelic quest, Barret when reliving the death of wedge, feels that wedge is there or at least heard him, and red is the one to shut it down and says it’s probably just the wind. Just a thought I thought I’d share.

Thanks for this! I was running out of rebirth discussion videos to listen to. The bgm is pretty loud though, is there a way you could turn it down a bit? It's fine if you don't I love the video regardless!

On the shipping arguments, I wonder if fans choice is affected by their own personality or where the fans are from. Like what is the majority shipping in America/UK/Japan. Would love to see a poll.

This was such an entertaining listen over my short work today. I don't feel good and this was such a pick me up. You guys are amazing.

Really liking your dialogue here, thanks a bunch for this!

I still think when they enter the forgotten capital, the merging of worlds start, like seph says. I like the thing you said with the blessing being the black materia and clouds key to pass through the wall of black whispers. I also believe when aerith gets stabbed, the merging ends or is coming to an end, seph wanted to kill all iterations of aerith at this single moment. That church area where zack appairs in, feels like remnants of a fading "world" because the merging coming to an end. After that I think he wakes up in the main world 100%. So aerith is gone, multiverse is gone, cloud is kinda gone in a different way and zack is reborn. At this point I don't think it's aerith at the end, it's just cloud coping, there was already a goodbye when she pushes him into the portal and another one after the last fight. You mention reoccuring visual themes, that would mean aerith would only show up in a white space if it's lifestream aerith like in AC, no? 🤣 Last edit: I think the tear is connected to cloud becoming cloud, worlds that are doomed have a tear because cloud has not found himself yet. Great talk ✌ Last Last edit: I think it will be reunion which would connect to zacks rebirth... ok last last last edit: cloud has to die to end it all 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

1:34:26 - There are no clock hands in Zack’s world. You see a clear shot of a handless clock behind him at one point, and there’s 1 or 2 clocks you can find around (Elmyra’s house), and there literally is no time in that world.

Finally got to finish watching this! Thanks for a good talk, Seal and Sector. Looking forward to all the theories these next few years! In addition to the truth that the party sees and the version of events that Cloud experiences, there might also be a third reality that Sephiroth is attempting to plant in Cloud's mind: a false one where he caved and killed Aerith. And having been inside a Weapon, a natural protector of the planet, Tifa might be aware of this, but I doubt she understands it. It's been a fun ride! Here to the end, brothers!!

Something I don't think I've seen discussed is what the significance of the comatose cloud and Earth are from The living Zack's world. Is that just to make sense of what is happening in that world or is there some underlying significance?

I hope that we use a Black Materia powered Buster Sword as a part of Cloud's combat in Game 3.

Been waiting for this since sector 6 mentioned you recorded it a few days ago 🙂

I do think the black and white whispers represent the Sephiroth-corrupted or Aerith-purified souls ala lifestream black and lifestream white. I know that's connecting to argued non-cannon source material in The Maiden Who Journeys The Planet, but it seems like a really easy and cogent connection there. Basically, souls in the lifestream that are corrupted and set against the natural cycle by feelings of despair and hatred are represented by the black whispers and this makes up lifestream black and is useful to/usable by Sephiroth. As far as the ending goes, my interpretation is we have a dead Aerith in main timeline and an alive Aerith in a new parallel branch reality which Cloud alone perceives. Cloud alone perceives because Cloud is the only one that got through that 'boundry of fate' and was in there when he parries the masamune and you get that rainbow lighting effect (I interpret, perhaps wrongly, as signifying a new branched reality being formed/Aerith influencing the creation or stability of such), only he perceives the new branch reality created in there where Aerith is saved and survives. After that moment where the branch is made, Sephiroth merges some realities (possibly the OG ff7 one being among them) and has enough control to select the outcome for the prime reality the party exists in to be her death. But, a separate and parallel reality where she was saved by Cloud's interception does exist and since Cloud was inside the whisper wall and created the new branch, he's capable of seeing and interacting with that reality too where the rest of the party cannot. For a moment they do show Tifa sort of seeing the different realities when she sees Cloud holding Aerith and before her eyes the scene oscillates between a dead and bloodied Aerith and the unharmed living version. Either she's just more observant than the rest of the party and notices it for a moment here, or she has some special connection that allows her to see it(maybe because of her previous journey into the lifestream earlier). Now this may be completely wrong, but I interpret those scenes and Cloud now straddling two realities or at least able to interact with the one Aerith is saved in and that's why he's not processing that she's dead in the world the rest of the team is in, because to him; she's not. He's seeing her in the saved branch he made, and talking to her, etc. His mind is still very messed up as it was in OG here so he denies her death in the prime reality that everyone else experiences and presumably he laid her to rest in, but it's also complicated because I think he is actually seeing a living version of her in the parallel branch he made. The scar in the sky at the end also lends some credibility to this and in my mind; Zack's parting words to 'save her' also point to Aerith living in some way and being 'savable' somehow otherwise that seems kind of like a nonsense line for the devs to include from Zack at a crucial moment towards the end. All this to say that just like a new reality was created for the party at the end of remake when they beat the harbingers of fate after Aerith opened a path through the whisper wall that they all crossed through, the same happened at the end here with Cloud creating a new one with his deflection; albeit this time without the rest of the party present inside the whisper wall, just Cloud. Where this goes in part 3 is hard to guess, but I'd submit that Zack's supposition that split realities could rejoin again at the end may play a role in part 3. We might get the branch where Aerith was saved (maybe this is also a reality where Zack was deposited in the church at the end) rejoined to the parties' main reality at some point which might effectively give you both characters returned to the team alive. I think that's decently likely in the 3rd installment at some point, though whether they remain alive in the same world as the party by the end would be hard to guess. I actually suspect maybe we will get both alive by the end even though Shrodingersbabyseal contends that only one surviving would be better writing. That hinges on whether they link the end of part 3 to Advent Children chronologically which requires those two characters be in the lifestream or if as I and you maybe both here are guessing, AC connects to this story through that future version of Sephiroth and maybe OG Aerith's consciousness projecting through the lifestream back to the beginning of this trilogy (Remake). In which case, the ending of this Re-trilogy could be totally different with it being essentially the new 'good end' to the whole story. Impossible to know for sure and as always, these theories could be way off, but at least there's some evidence there for them in what we've seen so far. I'd be ok with these characters actually getting to live lives they've all suffered and fought so hard for this time around if they go that route. Appreciating and cherishing the life you're given is a potent theme too just as moving beyond loss was in OG after all, and it might be the only way to shake Sephiroth's cyclical ability to come back through Cloud's guilt and pained memories over and over (as AC detailed) anyway.. On the weirder, theorycrafting side, I don't think we'll see this, but I would have LOVED if we got a sort of grey good-guy version of Sephiroth from some reality who realizes he was led astray by Jenova and wrong in his initial 'awakening' in Nibelheim with regard to not being at least partly human (not knowing about Lucrecia). I don't entertain that they could actually make him a redeemed hero, but maybe a version of him who helps the party some or fights himself or Jenova somewhat for personal reasons. 99% sure that won't happen, but would have been interesting. I would also like a final conclusion that implies the 'good end' to the story is leading to humanity once again reaching for space travel to re-start the Cetra's journey to spread and seed life among different planets. Maybe some sort of positive resolution for the Gi in that. As for Part 3 titles: My top picks are Re-awakening (lots of foreshadowing about people/weapons/consciousness of the planet waking up), or Redemption. Love all the theories and apologies for the length of my post!

This is easily the best spoiler discussion I’ve seen of this game. Great stuff!

The gongaga track actually gains more layers the more you complete the Kujata crystals. :)

Here are some things i notice: 1.Rainbow effect still present during Aerith was falling down when she got stab. Further backing your lifestream point. Not timesjumps 2. In the CG meteor where Sephi tore open the sky, lifestream was pouring out then gets corrupted when levitating the lands. 3. The line fighting Jenova Lifeclinger about 75% hp Cloud said this "you've done it before, you can do it again" this line was similar in AC when Zack told Cloud during the last fight with OneWSephiroth before the omnislash. 4. I have a feeling green glitches and red glitches have different meaning.

I think Requiem has a solid case for the third title. It’s somewhat interchangeable with Dirge, so there’s that…

My personal take is that the rainbows are purely the power of emotion. Even Limit Breaks create the rainbow effect when used, which I don't really see anyone talking about. So I also don't think the rainbows directly mean a new world is made.

I know this is not the only framing of the whispers and the multiple worlds but one framing of this that helps me is the meta framing. The whispers in the original game were the fans themselves wanting to force the game to follow the single path of the original game. But the ending and the second game we get into the fanfiction / multiple worlds were different types of fans want different realities. I think the third will resolve everything by integrating all our hopes and expectations as players as aspects of something greater and real beyond but also within us (the life stream). So what is elevated is not the cannon of ff7 but ff7 as a shared multi-faceted experience that can influence us in our real lives

I hear what you are saying against Jenovaerith but did you hear Jenovah lifeclinger song? Aeriths theme being taken over by Jenovahs. That is pretty interesting. I really liked your take on how the worlds work. They are attached to the characters and memories of it. Not full on worlds.

Are you going to have a podcast with Maximillian? Would love that conversation.

I think FF7 is a spiral, not a circle. We won't return full circle, but actually have a destination from a point of origin. Ogff7 was the first time Sephiroth and Aerith entered the Lifestream. Remake trilogy is a sequel to AC. Looking forward to whatever Aeriths endgame is and to see Sephiroth frown more. As for when AC comes back around, I think we will see the pieces in very different places. Lifestream Black 1,2,3 and Lifestream White 1,2,3, and On the Way to a Smile will be brought into the forefront.

Sup man! Love the video, analysis and theories. I haven't heard a single streamer talk about this, but both Red and Tifa sense Zack helping them in the final battle, RIGHT after Zack's part in the apocalyptic church. Red said something along the lines of, "Call me crazy, but it feels like somebody is helping us." Tifa then says, "Is it.... Cloud?" This make me feel like Zack is functionally alive, sensible and actually there. I just want to hear your thoughts on that because I've heard NOBODY talk about this, and it feels pretty big to me.

Tankceratops will be in part 3 around the Gongaga revisit. Since the lifestream is memories it would be wild if Remake and Rebirth are actually happening in real time in Clouds memories in the lifestream in Mideel. Meaning everything we witnessed so far is Cloud in Mideel and Tifa rebuilding his memories and Chadley is just trying to syphon his memories for massive Hojo fight.

God I'm so happy knowing we're both part of the CDF (Chadley Defense Force).

Such a good point. I only did Queen's Blood my first playthrough and did all the other side quests in my new game +. Thought there was only one section that was poorly paced. Wish I did the protorelic quests before I finished the first time in retrospect, but that's it.

What do you make of the ambient conversation before the Cosmo Canyon seminar about the "alternate world" through the looking glass and unrealized hopes/dreams? This seemed like a massive hint but the ramifications aren't totally clear. I'm surprised you didn't touch more on Nanaki's promise to save the Gi, and the purpose of Cloud's empty materia. I think those two are crucial, and together they're going to forge a "third way" apart from Sephiroth and Aerith's goals, in typical anime fashion. Maybe it involves the conversation I just mentioned; especially mentioning unrealized hopes/dreams seems like a suggestion that Zack's sheer force of will will be able to punch through causality and, together with Cloud and Aerith, solve everything. Maybe they'll force the lifestream to change into something else that would purify and welcome the Gi and Jenova into it, ending the cycle. If that's the case, then reuniting Zack and Aerith (temporarily) just so they can say goodbye to each other, before the two of them (and Sephiroth, defeated) dissolve into the lifestream forever, would be the final ending of all of this. This would also lend itself nicely to the "Return" subtitle. A double entendre for the REAL Cloud "returning" as well. And Remake and Rebirth refer to what Sephiroth does during the story, so if he's finally able to Return to the lifestream for good...

Your theory about the nature of the multiverse is interesting! What do you read into Sephiroth’s explanation of it, though? He explicitly says that the worlds are ever branching; he calls it the “true nature of reality”. If we go with the theory that the other worlds were created by Aerith, how does this play into how Sephi’s describing them? Great video

I keep hearing people say it, but what makes you believe the Rebirth timeline is the OG timeline? This remake I think takes place in in all AU, that's another reason why they recasted every role. What if our original Timeline assists in taking down the final big bad across every dimension for a finale?

It feels like Sephiroth has casted "Doom" in the sky at the end. Considering it's Gi Nattaks final move and his tribe are the creators of the black materia, it'd certainly fit

Here is a theory I came with the end, rather, what I think they are trying to archive with that ending first, my take on Aerith, she is either alive in another timeline (and someone pointed out that when Tifa appeared the thing she saw was glitching between the 2 until it focused on the death one) or she is a JENOVA manipulation, which both can be, 1 think Remake made very obvious was when Clouds memories were being altered, there is allways a glitch effect, but on the scene when he remembers the promise on the water tower, there is a clean transition, no glitching now, what do I think they are trying to do? make Cloud the ONLY reliable narrator, we know what is wrong with Cloud, we know what parts specifically make him unreliable, but of all the remaining party members, he is the only one who knows the full scope of things, and as I see it, is currently living in 2 different timelines at the same time, so close to one another that they are indistinguishable from one another, but because Cloud is the only one to understand ALL the things that are really happening, he is currently living on the precipise of downfall, and that will also create more distance between the party and Cloud, even if he is our only reliable narrator to further see whats actually happening I commented before that its clear Sephiroth wants to further separate Tifa from Cloud, so Tifa cannot save Cloud and free him from his control, Sephiroth knows he is the only one to have bested him before, hence why I think Sephiroth told all this to Cloud, even if it is the truth, it would sound extreanly unrealistic to everyone else

Opening part 3 as a Cetra anf FINALLY seeing Jenova in action would be insane to set the stakes of what’s about to happen and them going deeper into Jenova. I really would love to see actual alien Jenova against the party and talking to them

In regards to Cid and Ifalna... many ties keep going to when Aerith was 8. Thats 14 years. It'd make Cid 16. Lets not forget, Cloud joined Shinra with his aspirations just a bit before turning 14, war time, and Nibelheim's depiction of biys becoming adults at 13 to leave town and get work. The depiction in sector 7's slums of tweens seeking jobs and aporenticeships. With this in mind, let alone Sephiroth's past, Yuffie's past... a 16 year old pilot doesnt seem far fetched. Japan during WW2 (where the revelations of Unit 731 heavily influenced Shinra's lab lore for deep ground and making Hojo even crazier for compilation lore as an example of influences), Japan recruited as young as 15. For other interesting stuff, the "why do we fight gods in jrpgs" is quite enlightening. Anyway.. Point is it wasnt all that surprising. Aerith's novel lore focuses heavily on 15 years ago, where she's still lab bound. So, 1 more year, Cid'd be 16, chance meeting with Ifalna? Suppose it depends. Before the lab, or after? If before, then...14 year old Cid? Still plausible given when and who else joined at which ages, but.. hm.

So on the interlude dream worlds… I suspect they are the dreams sustained within the four whispers that saved Zach. They could only split into four increasingly small dream worlds before running out of Mako to transform energy into matter. I think all these Worlds seen in the remake trilogy are created via the same mechanism as materia, taking dreams and memory and via the consumption of Mako transform them into matter. Once the Mako is expended, the created World is devoured by the nightmares (black whispers) in order to reclaim that frozen Mako (physical matter) and return it to the lifestream’s energy

For a strong intro for the 3rd game they should have Cloud and Zack in the back of the truck on the way to Midgar with Zack’s lines “So we’re friends now right?” and then show them under fire, then cut the flashback scene right after they show Zack hide Cloud behind the rocks for his last stand. Tense opening scene without revealing the truth to the audience who don’t know what’s going on yet. Would be so🔥🔥

Gleniroth rekindles the war between Wutai and Shrina because of Sister Ray. The game makes it a point to tell us that Sister Ray can reach Wutai. A war with Wutai would force Rufus to leave Sister Ray in Junon and not move it to Midgar to destroy the Northern Craters barrier. Just a theory I thought about anyway

Great theories guys. I think you are onto to something with a lot of them. I do wish however you didn't put "solved" on the thumbnail. You know that isn't possible until we play the 3rd part. The devs are going to look at everyone's theories and try to prove them all wrong.

Just to play devils advocate on the topic of Aerith jenova shenanigans theory whats your take on Cloud mimicking Aerith's exact line in the end fmv from the last interlude. Reason I bring it up is because it is narratively consistent with Cloud mimicking Sephiroths dialogue when he revisits the naturally formed materia on the way to the reactor. Great discussion as always ❤

For Red, this wasn’t a change but a correction for western gamers from the localization of the OG Japanese game to the western version. They had trouble translating the texted based syntax changes in Reds Japanese speak after you get to Cosmo Canyon when his voice changes to the true younger one. But at the time they didn’t get it to work and left his older way of talking in instead. This was only a change for western gamers. Similar to Aeris vs. Aerith

Reunited is my vote also. Nomura also said they can’t use Reunion ( I think in latest ultimania) Return just reminds me of Kingdom Hearts.

Seal have you noticed at the end of the game cloud see’s 3 things. In the blank Materia he sees himself, then he sees the world upside down (maybe indicating parallel universes) but anyways… the dark materia has these red ripple effects on it. Maybe that symbolizes bad timelines??? I feel you can interpret this better than me. 🧠 Also how come nobody talks about sephiroth at the edge of creation? You can literally see the “rainbow” ripple in the sky. It’s their in remake as well.

I'm calling it now that part 3 is going to be called Resurrection. I'm actually very surprised that not a single person has mentioned this title so far. I think it's going to be called Resurrection for three main reasons: 1) tetsuya nomura when he was thinking about the title for part 2, he mentions that he wanted to come up with a title that was very similar and very reminiscent of the remake title because it conveys a very similar idea of recreating something. There is no reason to think that the RE title for part 3 will diverge from that same concept of coming up with another name that conveys that same theme of recreating something, so in that sense resurrection which means to bring something back to life, is very fitting. So that by the very end of the project they can say that they have successfully remade, rebirthed, and resurrected the final fantasy 7 game. 2) so I think that the title for part 3 is actually hidden inside the game itself, just like the title for rebirth was hidden within the title of the one-winged angel title in part 1 soundtrack. There is a part of the temple of the ancients that is called Hall of Resurrection, and as far as I know, The only other RE word in the entirety of rebirth is reborn for the sephiroth reborn fight, and they definitely are not going to use reborn after having used rebirth. 3) finally I feel like it would be a fantastic title because the very name Resurrection can hold a dual meaning for part 3, wear aside from achieving what nomura wants with remake rebirth and resurrection all having the same kind of theme of recreating something, it also fulfill the role of making people think of Aerith when they hear the title. We all know that's where enix loves to mess around with their audience, so what better way to make people think that she can get resurrected then through the title of the game itself, but in reality, resurrection could just be applied to another form of sephiroth just like he had his sephiroth reborn form in rebirth. Or Resurrection could apply to something else in the game, but the title will serve a dual purpose nonetheless by keeping people talking about whether Resurrection applies to Aerith. 4) I actually have a fourth reason that I just thought of, but mind you that it's a little out there so excuse me if it sounds too far-fetched. So I feel like the title resurrection is a fitting conclusive name so they development of these three titles. Resurrection almost feels like the natural last step in the progressive titling that nomura has been doing. What I mean by progressive titling is that it almost feels like the specific order of Remake, Rebirth, and resurrection would have been chosen for a reason. Remake would be first because to make something, like a table or a chair, is a beginner's level way of creating something: ie creatingsomething lifeless and inanimate. Rebirth something would be second because to give birth to something is a higher form of creation, like giving birth to a baby. Something that has a life, a soul. Resurrection would be the final level of creation because the act of being able to give life to something that is dead is currently technologically and scientifically impossible, but they aspire to be able to achieve that one day.

What do you feel about the intentional subversion of expectations with the narrative? E.g. “The unknown Journet will continue”, changing fate (highly alluding to a change in Aeriths fate) -> Suprise you can only change fate and alter Aeriths destiny in another timeline or something…. Do you feel that there is a narrative theme disconnect or lack of continuity between remake and rebirth?

Crazy theory: all the alternate worlds exist on a consciousness-level only, and within the black materia. If you look at the "fake", it looks like it had the clear materia in it, and it didn't have the red lines/tears that it does in the socerer's stone ending one...which look a lot like the tears in the sky.

The crux of this story is the battle for the planet’s “soul” in which on the macro level it’s a battle between Sephiroth and Aerith. But the linch pin to all this is the battle for Cloud’s soul. Because if Sephiroth cannot break Cloud, Cloud will eventually beat him as he always has.

Finally finished this, love love love that you saved the dog theme for the end bit lol. Deepground will 100% return....in DLC. Yuffie's trial was basically a teaser trailer for Nero's return lol. Didn't he even mention that he's still tormenting Sonon?

No one mentions that there is another Cloud who is conscious in the Terrier timeline. Zack carries unconscious cloud, but you hear shinra guys talling about ex soldier on the run. Clouds body is the only avalanche member not in the rubble. I think a version of cloud will join the Reunion, and maybe even be Cloud who summons meteor. Theres the vision of sephiroth over midgar in Remake summoning meteor, but in Rebirth its a hooded figure summoning the meteor in the same frame.

Re: Lifestream scene in part 3 They've already freed up some space for it by moving up everything Tifa could have possibly remembered on her own up to the LS scene here in Rebirth, so they definitely could (and probably will) expand it. I've had an idea that not only could it include the standard OG stuff of him being in Nibelheim as the infantry grunt, but also him possibly piecing together his memories of what happened immediately after with him and Zack being experimented on and possibly their journey back to Midgar. This would fill in a sparsely written part in the sequence of events in the original game and if Zack is indeed dead and in the Lifestream, it could also be interwoven with Zack reckoning with what really happened to him just outside of Midgar (possibly with Aerith's help?), thus finally linking the real world with Zack's world in some way and revealing the truth about the nature of what's going on. If this is the case, then Aerith could either be awake or gone entirely in Zack's world at the start of part 3 and Cloud is there purely as a representation of of his unconscious memories of Zack and their journey to Midgar, locked away in the Lifestream and also possibly faulty as this part of his psyche now exists in a shared world where Zack doesn't remember dying.

I think the eeriness of the grieving scene by the water is because Cloud is clearly broken and we are seeing some of that from Tina's point of view. The ending scene has a lighter feel because we are seeing it from Cloud's point of view and he thinks everything is peachy. On a separate note I don't subscribe to the idea that this is a sequel. I think the story has been too similar to the OG. At this point I think the Re trilogy is just replacing the OG so it has more connectedness with the rest of the compilation. I think after these games we will see a remake/remaster of dirge and finally a sequel to it if we don't get dirge somehow mashed into the next game.

Maybe I'm behind the curve here, but why do people think the Edge of Creation is in Cloud's head? Don't the other party members acknowledge that he disappeared when he was teleported there at the end of Remake and during the fight with Sephiroth at the end of Rebirth?

The third title has always been obvious to me: FFVII Remembrance. (Or Remember). It just works perfectly thematically for me, both with respect to what Cloud will be going through in the third part (remembering who he is), what the characters are fighting for (remembering what it is that they value and fight for a la Cloud’s airship speech) and in a meta sense - we are all so locked into this project because of our memories of the OG and the love and nostalgia we have for it. Also, the lifestream and the way memories tie into it. I can’t see a more perfect title for the last installment. It works so well on all levels and I’ll be genuinely upset if they don’t go for it lol.

In lifestream white and lifestream black it talks about how Sephiroth sheds everything, making the core of his being his hatred towards Cloud- Which is in part why he can show up in Clouds mind(also Jenova but w/e). I think Omni-Aerith did, something similar...by taking advantage of the same singularity which is our Aerith's death. Making the core of her being her love for the planet and Cloud "It's about saving the world...and you" Or if you're familiar with FF14 lore, Aerith dying could give Omni a power boost..something akin to a Rejoining...which is awfully similar to a reunion...but i digress- Man you guys really get the brain goin! PS Rejoin's definition is to "Join together again or...Reunite" FF7 Rejoin sounds fairly plausible.

Emerald witch Minerva. Given Emerald Weapon sits behind Minerva, in a cave filled with emerald crystals. That said, do we take the two as literally being them, or anagrams to help explain the past?

Love you Babyseal! The best as usual. Background music is slightly a bit too loud imo.

I like the idea of the various Stamps being from different memories that Aerith snatched to weave the interlude world together. Interestingly, the two market stall owners from Ch14, there are a couple of points in the game's interlude sections where you free roam with Zack in the same area - in both, those same two stall owners are there. There's no Stamp figurine, but the confectionery stall owner still has the Stamps Champs chips, but they have the Terrier Stamp on the bag rather than the one we see in Ch14. Aerith being saved/not saved - I think she wasn't saved, but Aerith creates the illusion (in Cloud's head) that he did. All the Aerith is saved scenes are accompanied by either the rainbow effect or the lifestream effect. I think that's Aerith's parry of Sephiroth's "push". Sephiroth kills Aerith to generate despair in Cloud. Aerith convinces Cloud that he saved her, hence no despair. That's why he's the only one not to have a limit break in the Lifeclinger battle.

Okay this came to me while listening to your guys’ discussion (wonderful takes btw) Now if we take your guys’ interpretation of the Edge of Creation being Clouds headspace, that is the only place Cloud interacts with Zack. I posit that the Zack we have been following the entire time in the interludes, and play as in the final battle is the part of Zack that is in clouds head confusing his identity. The only evidence I have for this, is Aerith, throughout the game and sometimes in optional content (the gold saucer date) Aerith says she’s trying to find the real Cloud. And I see this as the white light/rainbow that appears every time Zack would die/is removed as Omni Aerith trying to put this mental Zack where he needs to be. I do believe whether this theory is true or not that Zack will be instrumental in making Cloud whole in part 3. As you pointed out Cloud is way further gone at this point than he was in the original. And Aerith needs the Zack part of him to help fight off the Jenova/Sephiroth part of him. Another point I would like to mention, and they brought this up in the Easy Allies discussion, that yellow “scar” across the sky wherever Zack is and that Cloud sees at the end, is the same type of mark we see in Clouds reassembly in the lifestream in the original, where Tifa helps to put Cloud back together. So this is something in clouds headspace/mental state. Again, here say for now, I have not revisited the scene myself to confirm. (Edit: you confirmed this haha) Now there is tons of evidence to counter this but I think it is so off the wall that I kind of love the idea of being that “Crazy Karl” screaming “I KNEW IT!” If it were to come to pass in 3-4 years.

3:13:15 The reason the others are fighting Seph too is because they're ALL aspects of Cloud's mind. He knows and trusts they're with him at this point... at least deep down. They're not "really" fighting, but same as Aerith and Zack, they're in his head (or actually, metaphorical heart). This whole scene BROKE me. Knowing he can't yet get a grip on it in his conscious mind just makes me want to give him a hug, milk, and cookies and tuck him into a crib...😭😆💙

Great discussion!

51:00 i was like NONONONO dont open this Book. xD

Love the conversation, but the soundmixing was realy anoying. The music was way to loud.

How does Cid's timeline not make sense? He's 32, Aerith is 22. They've gone out of their way to make Cid basically Han Solo at this point, Maverick from Top Gun maybe.. but you get the idea. How crazy is it that he was a hotshot pilot between 18-22 years old and potentially saw Iflana with her 8-12 year old little girl. It's really not that crazy considering how much of Aerith's life was spent at Shinra (7 years?). It makes sense

She’s dead completely living and working through the life stream the entire story will be the same the devs are just giving more possibilities to the story but it will all end the same. Zack will be apart of the team for a short period of time being the fact that cloud saw Zack and fought beside Zack. So Zack I alive but will eventually die in part three after helping his friend cloud putting his meme rips back together

Why wouldn't it be called Reconstruction? Also, it IS NOT the black materia. Why do people keep saying that? The black materia IS the temple. It is at the bottom of the crater at the end of this game. Aerith even said it is a fake. No. This think is the 'dark key' materia or something like that. Plus. It seems to have the same red stripe in it as the sky so maybe zack is inside it or something like that.

No if you remember Jenova can't just hop on the plane with cloud because of the rest of the party!! They all have a shared reaction of what happened in aeriths death that cloud witnessed something completely different. If she just hopped on the plane 1. Tifa or Barrett would look at cloud like he needs to be in a institution literally or 2. They would see "Aerith" hop on and freak the fck out cause she's. supposed to he dead! But she's not to cloud. Thats what Jenova is attacking directly. Its specifically tailored to Cloud. Thats why she's not having full out interactions with all of them at the same time!

Revival

My take on the end, is that Cloud is sort of mentally caught inbetween the prime world where Aerith dies and the world where he saves her, and in the 3rd game, when his mind is fixed, he will have to come to terms with the fact that him saving Aerith is what dooms the world. If Aerith does not die she does not become one with the lifestream, and thus she is not able to stop meteor. Cloud will have to pick between saving Aerith (and dooming everyone) or accepting she is dead and that she knew she had to die so that everyone else could live. Whatever scenario Cloud chooses will become the prime world. I dont think the prime world is doomed, hence why everyone else cant se the rift in the sky.

I think Cid was just an infatuated teenager when he fell for Ifalna.

So something I noticed and I've only just started watching video as I'm at work haha and not sure if anyone has mentioned but I think cloud is stuck between two worlds.... he got woken up in the zack timeline and pushed back into the main timeline and that's why he could see both realitys of aerith surviving and dieing and can see the crack in the sky...

Third title has to be a happy one lol

2:48:10 I think Part 3 will open with a flashback to Dr. Gast and Ifalna meeting, falling in love, running away, and Gast's death. It'll be like the beginning of "Up" but with spoken dialogue