She said...she wanted Squall to kill her if she was possessed. If she is Ultimecia...he did.. Also Rinoa said she would be waiting there for him. Her castle was built right above the orphanage.

"squall i'm the final boss" _"Whatever."_

Square says its not real, but the signs are there. Maybe they did it unconsciously, if they remake it, it would be a smart move to incorporate these elements more into the storyline because of the ambiguous dialogue in the opening, literally makes total sense now.

"When I played the game with this theory in mind, it blew me away. It was like I played the game for the first time all over again." Could not have said it better. I played this game for the last time over 20 years ago, and THAT made me feel like playing it again. As many have already said, I think this plot line had been in the works, but was cut at some point before the launch. A happy ending sells better, right? The idea of the cheerful, naive heroine plunging into a grieving madness and going full circle to become the antagonist, fighting her past allies may be too dark for the franchise... but it's also to good to be ignored!

I only heard this theory the other day, and honestly I don't care what Square-Enix say...this theory makes for a better storyline imo! lol! Even thinking back on it, after you kill Ultimecia in her final form and she explodes all epic like, what color are the feathers blowing around? Hint: They're not black!

Good Lord buy a better microphone

Ultimecia is also called Arutimishia. This is artemisia II, the one who grieved her husband

Wait has anyone thought of the fact that the squall is dead theory and R=U could work together? What if Rinoa turns evil due to the death of squall and the reason she wants to compress time is to see squall once again? Since Ultimatcia’s reason for wanting to compress time isn’t really explained beyond the whole “being evil for the sake of it” thing, it could provide an explanation

I know this is an older video but just recently the FF developer that "debunked" this theory retracted that statement saying that it wasn't *his* idea but he co-wrote it with two others and it's a possibility they had it in mind. Love the idea but it's difficult to reconcile the fact that Rinoa's life is frequently put into danger at the behest of Ultimecia; that seems counter-productive at best. Maybe Ultimecia forgot her own origin. Maybe (and Ellone mentions this) sending a conscience back in time can't change events, only people, and Ultimecia doesn't understand this so she makes futile attempts that are all thwarted and we still end up in a timeline where Rinoa exists to become Ultimecia.

No one can convince me Rinoa isn’t Ultimecia especially after watching this vid

Either way, I believe that in Ultimecia's time period, all SeeD members are downright mean and ruthless witch hunters that destroy sorceresses with extreme prejudice. That would explain why Seifer believed that Squall and the others were the bad guys, because Ultimecia probably told him everything about her time period

Makes too much sense. Also elevates FF8 into the best Final fantasy game

The last words U says are clearly her admitting she has forgotten her past. It’s the key detail that ties the R=U theory together.

R = U = best FF8

I hope that they remake ff8 and finally make us see for ourselves that rinoa is ultimecia

Came to hear about the Rinoa theory, stayed for the ASMR

Consider the legendary SeeD that will kill Ultimecia prophecy. A prophecy that Ultimecia is aware of and yet appears to be completely alone. The only explanation that the story offers for the origin of this prophecy, and her knowing it, is if it’s a corrupted memory from when she said it would be OK if Squall kills her (and only him). Why would they include this detail in the story otherwise? It’s just a random line otherwise. There seem to be far too many “random lines” like that to for them all to be a coincidence. Also Kitase retracted the statement that R=U was false a few months ago, look it up

2:17 Without Seifer, Squall might not have met Rinoa. What is even more interesting is that Squall does not have much backstory of his own. After Big Sis' leaves the orphanage for White SeeD, we learn that Squall studied at Balamb Garden under Quistis and has a rivalry with Seifer. Previously, Seifer was out and about all summer getting to know Rinoa on the Contienent and they likely fought in the resistance movement in some capacity. It is a shame Rinoa was not aware on some level about her sorceress' heritage, all along, and thus needed to fight Edea controlled by Ultimecia. Was Rinoa's resistance fighting just an immature defiance of her father, the General of Deling City? I think the creators intended Rinoa-Seifer to be an un-romantic precursor to Squall-Rinoa and of course a continuation of Cid and Edea. Yes, Ultimecia could be Rinoa and Squall's descendant. This opens yet another time paradox. No Ellone dreams, no Squall coming to Esthar with Rinoa to find his Big Sis', no Ultimecia being born many generations in the future. Maybe, Ellone was connecting with Squall so he could then save Rinoa in outer space and thus, in time Ultimecia could be born?

Fantastic video with lots of great points, perhaps the best argument for the R=U I’ve heard. When I first discovered that theory a few years ago my mind was blown as everything finally made sense. All of Squall’s weird philosophy, the dialogue, the opening (which is a first glimpse at Ultimecia’s perspective. She doesn’t know why or what, but she knows she has to) the lack of Ultimecia’s development and motive, etc.-it all made sense. I was like Chazz Palminteri at the end of Usual Suspects. I promise that will eventually replay the game with that theory in mind and find more clues. Yeah, SE and Ultimania deny it, blah blah, I heard it. But if Ultimecia is from the future, who remains to be the last sorceress at the end of the game? And if sorceresses live normal lives, how come they can’t die till passing powers? What are they crones forever? Adel is like a thousand years old, why can’t have Rinoa frozen herself or something? Also, Ultimecia is not fully human. Maybe her junction with Griever caused her to have those claws and prolonged her life? But you already covered that. Let me bring up another thing you didn’t mention if I may. Ultimecia is also known as Artemisia, correct? Well Artemisia II was a famous historical figure known for “her extraordinary grief at the death of her husband. She is said to have mixed his ashes in her daily drink, and to have gradually pined away during the two years that she survived him.” en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artemisia_II_of_Caria I believe that clues are strewn throughout the game. Like the statues in the ballroom when Rinoa meets squall look like Ultimecia’s final form, or the carpet in Rinoa’s room resembles the Ultiimecia’s castle with multiple chains. That one may be a little farfetched through, but I’ll have to play again to see it for myself.

in order to hear, i need to turn volume way up. Then, the advertisement comes up like hearing an explosion

First, I would like to say it's a nice video! Good work! While there a few flaw on what you explain. Let me correct the course :) She's not as far as people think in the future! A surprising misunderstanding of a basic word used in the game. In the game it is said Ultimecia is several !!generation!! in the future. Not several lifetime! Not several hundred years! Not far in the future! What is a generation ? It's about 17-20 years... What make her forget so much ? The GF is not in Squall, it's in the ring! the GF possibly lost by Selphie when she was 12.(That is another story) She never give back Squall ring and clearly talk about his dream: From script: Squall: "No, it's because of the GF. That's why I forgot." Rinoa: "That's just an excuse." Squall: "Feeling better?" Rinoa: "Yeah. Can I tell you a story? I had a dream. It was a scary dream. We make a promise. We promise to see shooting stars together. I get dressed up an put on your ring. But the thing is, I can't remember where I'm supposed to meet you. I start to panic. I really want to see you, Squall, but I don't know where to go.{...} The ring IS the GF. It is Griever. Thats how the ring is called and is why she forget! She keep equiping the GF to her finger. The whole basketball scene is to set up the fact that GF memory is erased, to explain how Selphie had a GF and lost it.(Griever) FF are strong on the themes they make. FF8 theme is love! This is why Ultimecia giving her power to Edea create an infinite loop of love. As if the time is in a way compressed between their birth and the end. Because Squall and Rinoa are the love that Julia and Laguna never could consume. Raine + Laguna* = Rain on a lagoon is called a Squall. Julia + Caraway = Rinoa *Spanish

I hope they go back on the idea of ultimecia≠rinoa. It's a cool idea and adds a lot of depth to the story. I also thought about Rinoa's quest for peace and abhorrence of senseless violence. If time compression happens, no one will be left to fight anymore; peace will be achieved.

Final Fantasy VIII... no matter how you look at it, one of the greatest stories never told. That sums up my critique of VIII - there is a massive story that isn't told in favor of ... stuff that doesn't make any sense until I remembered that "Interactive Movies" were a very popular idea. I like the idea that Rinoa and Ultimecia share more than simply being a sorceress. It explains a few of the design decisions without invoking the 'dream' argument and adds a level of depth. Frankly, I first interpreted Ultimecia as a boss for the sake of a boss. I thought the plot could have been far more coherent if we left it at the big bad witch in space. Ultimecia just seemed like something added to compare to Kefka or Sephiroth in terms of overwhelming power. I would argue for the interpretation that the story of Final Fantasy VIII represents, among its other stories (Squall and Rinoa being the children of a couple who were separated before they could have the love they felt for each other - a very japanese theme of trans-generational love), the idea that the possibility of Rinoa becoming Ultimecia is resolved through the conflict. For reality-manipulating sorceresses, I don't really find much issue with Rinoa surviving into the distant future. Traveling forward in time is an easy task - they cryo-store people to launch them into space in this installment - simply pull a Futurama and we have a potential for Rinoa going bonkers centuries later. Here, we can say that Rinoa becomes her own free person and that time compression resolves the paradox by eliminating the future in which she has become Ultimecia. Since we are dealing with such a purely fantastic concept as time compression... it's hard to say what is or isn't a reasonable explanation involving it. We could also play a bit more fast and loose and suggest that Ultimecia is an artifact of time compression, itself. This would allow Ultimecia to be Rinoa as she would be if Squall died during the assassination attempt while being aware of what would have been if he weren't. Though that is probably way more brain-busting than Square was going for. I would love to see a remake of VIII - it is most in need of it. I believe a lot of the game was lost to internal competition between whether it was a game or an interactive movie. It was also stretching the limits of storage media of the time, and that also contributed to what seem like a number of last-minute ommissions of story telling to be replaced by awkward exposition dumps. There is a great story under there (hidden in what would be codex entries today) that isn't really told, and there is potentially far more reason to the madness to be told. Square-Enix's fixation on action-RPGs would probably work better with the atmosphere of VIII, as well. VIII seemed to be designed to be action-centric, so it would be a little more natural to transition to the hacky-slashy stuff. Still... my most memorable part of the game was when Rinoa first used "Wishing Star" - I laughed for a solid ten minutes. That boss had given me so much trouble... and she one-shot it by riding a dog through space. It was not at all what I was expecting out of her limit break. Humor aside... probably the most compelling thing is the opening scene where the dialogue is about Rinoa waiting for someone (Squall, it seems) - with Ultimecia sitting in a tower anchored to the daycare. This is a very deliberate choice by the team and it echoes to the intro that is supposed to pique our interest in the game. We can accept that this was the place that connected all of the characters and therefor serves as a mutual anchor for an entry point into a realm of twisted reality... but the story doesn't make clear if the castle is built atop the daycare... or the daycare is a sort of bridge constructed by the memories of the characters. That ... or we are left with the 'wish-fulfilling dream' theory. But that is an exploration of nihilism that can apply to any implied existence - even ours at this moment. Without more overt existential themes, I am not all that compelled to such 'squall is dead theories'. All said - I appreciate this explanation/theory/discussion.

I'm pretty sure that the game mentions that sorceress go insane when they don't have a knight. If the knight dies, I can see the sorceress going insane because the knight isn't there to help control their powers.

why are you whispering??

The game is so much better, imo, if you choose to believe this theory. It adds another dimension to the story, making it richer and more emotional.

Great theory and points, which you had pictures/images to help drive the point home.

I agree final fantasy 8 is still my favorite final fantasy game ever I love everything about the game especially the music it's really amazing that song you have playing in the video is one of my favorites 😊😃

PS: its plausible Rinoa could be Ultimecia. As, if i remember correctly...Ultimecia gave her powers to Edea, whom eventually will pass on her powers to Rinoa. So Ultimecia set-up events to assure her eventual inheritance of sorceress powers. The only sorceress that doesnt tie into that lineage is Adel...

While I do enjoy this theory, I've always thought alot of the similarities/parallels were to show how different they are characteristically through visuals. Much like Squalls and Seifers scars. Personally though, I always thought of Ultimecia as a possible descendant of Squall/Rinoa, or that someone continued the orphanage and Ulti was a child there. If I remember right, her future is generations later not centuries, so her time period isnt necessarily so far off from Squalls. Regarding the Griever theories, didnt Ultimecia create Griever during the battle? I dont remember her having it prior to that. It was my understanding she manifested it then off of Squalls fears or something.

Can't hear the voiceover.

my plot was in the Ultimecia free timeline, war still happened. There will be a time when Squall will die and Ellone will need to pass her powers to rinoa. Rinoa loves squall so much along with their friends that she wishes to relive their time together. But going back in time through consciousness wasn't enough so she tried and tried. then, after some time, having the powers of Edea, Adel and Ellone, including her own, Rinoa becomes... unstable mentally and emotionally. Then her mind shatters. only remembering seed, time... wait at the orphanage... thus she starts looking like the combined aesthetics of all sorceres she had her powers from. Then, she was able to go to the past but during squall's childhood. She saw Edea/Matron, knowing at the back of her mind she is important, Ultimesia passed her powers and consciousness to edea. Then, the game's timeline begins.

Fools!!! Time shall compress! Existence denied!

Squall dies at the end of disc 1 That happened a long time ago. Rinoa is ultimecia. Everything in the game all the characters and places are an illusion created by rinoa-ultimecia She compresses and rewinds time for the sole purpose of living the same life and experiences with squall. Griever is squall. The only two characters of FF VIII are squall and rinoa/ultimecia hence the cover of the game. The rest are only memories of the people they met before the death of squall at the end of cd1. Plot-wise is the best final Fantasy and one of the best plots I've ever came across till now. Because it reinterpretes the trope of the star crossed lovers in a exclusive way. An immense masterpiece.

All the interesting events of this theory are the things that would have happened to Rinoa in the timeline after Ultimecia is defeated and before Ultimecia's rise to power in the future. To me, the biggest clue that they could be the same is that in the future, Ultimecia parks her castle right at the exact spot that Rinoa tells Squall to meet each other at, the field of flowers. If this was not intentional at all then it was a gigantic coincidence. One then must ask how does Ultimecia know of this promise between Squall and Rinoa? And what was her intention to park her location in that exact spot? Did she have some vague memory of knowing something important was supposed to arrive in that location?

Its a shame that VIII isnt getting a re-release...i havent played since 98. Actually, the only ps1 final fantasy that ive replayed is IX Speaking of Laguna and Raine. Man, their story is so tragic. I actually feel terrible for Raine to have died alone because Laguna couldn't return to her, as hed become president of Esther...:(

It is a depressing but credible hypothesis

People should stop to read stories libearly. Its obvious tgat the time compression is the key to all the plots and subplots. Laguna/squall julia/rinia couldnt live together so the only chance they had to erernalize their love was through a never-ending cycle and loop in time. This connection slowky builds... all characters are one since time comoression happens, this is way everybody grew together "coincidentally"

What if it turns out that ultimecia is the daughter of Rinoa and Squall? Like Squall who is always disturbed by the existence of Laguna. In the end everything is just a time loop that can stop if Rinoa and Squall are not together.

It was a daring theory but i recently played ff8 again and I came to realise something a lot of people missed and that makes that theory unecessary to the plot: The tragedy of seifer. Seifer dreams to be a sorceress knight, it's his life goal, he wants to be a knight and a hero and he could have been. He dated rinoa prior to the game and up to the point of the tv station incident he could have still joined the party, be rinoa's boyfriend and eventually become his knight when she becomes a sorceress but instead he chose the wrong path and followed ultimecia thinking he was pursuiing his dream. He unkowingly becomes a vllain and abandon what could have been his destiny, leaving the place empty for his rival squall to take. Squall reaches every goal Seifer had without even wanting it. All he wants is to live the life of a mercanary, make money, live at garden and that nmobody ask him anything but he gets dragged into becomming Rinoa's knight and defeat both seifer and ultimecia, thus being a legendary seed and world saviour. This is the true plot of FF8, a simply story that is told in the intro video as they both fight under the phantom sight of ultimecia (As Edea) while Rinoa waits in the field for her knight. Once you take this plot element into account, you realise Ultimecia has received enough buil up through the game. She is never seen in person until the final battle (and a flashback) but you see her as a horribly evil character as she drags seifer into his fall, manipulate a whole superpower into global war, commits a genocide against trabia and attempts one against balamb, the list goes on. She's an archetypal villain who puts her own existence above others, wants to reach god-like powers even if it means the end of the world as we know it. Rinoa is in fact her perfect opposite and she is presented as such (they have opposite colored hair, wings and clothes) so the whole story is Rinoa and Squall vs Seifer and Ultimecia. That's why it becomes unecessary to farfetch plot element to imagine Rinoa is Ultimecia. The final point is, that Ultimecia is defeated in a state of time compression, her final form is absorbing everything time and space and she is defeated from time and space so one can imagine that her future actions will never happen. Finaly, a little personal theory: many people complained that you never get to see the ellone junction machine but I came to wonder if the greek looking portals that gives you access to the world map wouldn't be the time travelling device she uses.

It's a great theory. But if Ultimecia is Rinoa in the future, then why she tries to kill Squall?

Hola, voy añadir un dato curioso a este misterioso juego. Que hos dará más que pensar en que Rinoa si es Artemisa. La fantástica melodía de piano final en el castillo. Quién era la madre de Rinoa? Veo a Artemisa componiendo esa melodía y tocándola durante siglos en su tenebroso castillo jejejeje. Ahí lo dejo... Este juego me lo pasé en su lanzamiento 1999 tenía 12 años y me quedo con el sentimiento que me transmitió. Es mi FF predilecto. Saludos.

Great Video! Final Fantasy VIII Is My Favorite In The Main Series.

I'm sorry, but you really need to work on your diction - it's hard to understand what you are saying based only on your voice. And the speed you speak doesn't help either. And the audio should be louder, considering you use it as the main attraction for the video. It all adds up negatively when you expect that your viewers will listen it to the end - 30 minutes with all these problems hurts your work (and the effort you had to do this).

This is fantastic. subscribed

Adel was the main boss that gave me a problem

i wish the volume on this video was higher.

Squall has a bad cough there

Man! This games just got a magnitude deeper and more interesting no matter if this theory is true or not.

What do you suppose would have happened had Squall slained it, when he ended up in the time just before It passed it's powers onto to Matron...?

If Ultimecia had forgotten everything, due to her GF, how does she know about Ellone?

Fithos Lusec Wesoc Vinosec...

I really like the theory but it's sadly been debunked. Still though the idea that Rinoa went insane do to the death of Squall is very interesting.

Well they both have wings

While the theory is interesting, and would make sense, Ultimecia speaks weirdly (the Ks replacing the Cs..). It's a small detail, though..

>tfw i liked the entire game and loved the story without reservation. the basketball court scene didn't seem that bad to me........

I'm curious what you think of the squall is dead theory

Needs an update with the new game where they tease ultamecia rinoa theory

Tongue smack

If you have Rinoa in your party during the Final Battle, Angelo kills Ultimecia in 1 blow. Coincidence? No, it's not.

final fantasy 8 best Final Fantasy Ever

8:33 is where you lost me. Ultimecia wants to achieve time compression so that she will be the only one in existence, not because of a lost love. It's explicitly stated in disk 3 during Squall's and Laguna's first in person meeting with Odine present. Interesting theory, but that's where you lost me.

WHAT?

Why does everyone want to believe this theory that Square has officially confirmed as bluff. I mean don't you just want a good ending where Squall and Rinoa live happily ever after??

Clockwork

Oh and isnt Reaver...something Ultimecia ACTUALLY RIPS from Squall mind: manifests it from the ether of his mind...: then JUNCTIONS HERSELF ONTO IT!?!? Lol, that's how ive always understood it to be explained...which makes Ultimecia's true scope of Power... Fing Ridiculous. (meaning Ultimecia didnt find Greiver within Squall. She CREATED IT: from Squall desire to protect Rhinoa...a beautiful and perfect irony...and proof again Ultimecia is OP as all F) Also the GF Mcguffin becomes a SERIOUS *NON* Mcguffin: if you can step back: and realize: these poor kids: have been used as child and now barely adult soldiers: their entire lives: And have NO IDEA: the cost they've been paying. I LOVE that angle. A subtle horror reality: that appears so MCguffiny: people cant accept it (well 99% anyway) but to me? I love it. Brain washed soldiers desperately seeking any connection to the world. Ironically: revealing their very gardens: are that connection. Making the games them's of friendship even under extreme circumstances: Fit quite well.

If this had been true Ultimecia/Rhinoa would have been one of the best villains ever. The creators debunked it though...which IS too bad...if it HAD been: then FINALLY: they could have done a -2 something (aka FF8-2) with a LEGENDARY Antagonist...or aka have the sequel: be The Fall of Rhinoa: Squall dies early in some accident (or whatever)...and Rhinoa goes nuts. (or even better, she thinks he's dead but he Mcguffin saved and comes back half way to cause some drama) But...it'd be "too late" and at the end of the game Squall would sacrifice himself to fail to kill her... Aka Rhinoa gets too powerful (still last boos fight with squall) however, Final FMV shows Squall die from...meh a larger ice spear lolol...Rhona pauses... Freaks out and goes insane X2: gathers Squalls body, scream and takes on Ultimaecia's form: and then disappears into the future...to begin building her machine: She'll use to "save Squall"...and herself. But in the end her lover and self kill her... THAT'S a Time Paradox lolololololol XD

Despite the fact that Rinoa practically hates Squall and worships Seifer in disc 1. Show mw evidence that she loves Squall and I will be happy as most theories suggest her grief came from Squall dying at the end of disc 1, where she hates him

talk louder. cant hear a word

8:50 stretching.

I've always thought Adel was old. Like, she had ruled Esthar from even before it was technologically advanced. And this theory IS interesting. Why the hell did Ultimecia have a fucking GF called Griever???? That stuck out to me, but I never thought Ultimecia was Rinoa...

thanks for the explaining this you deserve a like XD but its realy interesting stuff what i hope whe get some day a nother game for ff8 to help us too understand it

PPS: maybe just maybe Ultimecia is Ellone?...;)

Ellony? You mean Ellone? As in Eh-*loan*?

Ultimaysha

I’m not.

no way

There is actually a major plot hole in the main line story here to. There is only supposed to be one sorceress at a time in existence.

what about the fact of Seifer being ultimecia's "knight"? it seems as if he knew she was rinoa... i mean they knew each other, he had this romantic dream of being... somenone's knight or something like that... and there doesnt seems to be another reason for him to help ultimecia... maybe he just felt who she was at an unconscious level? it adds to the idea of rinoa having two different men fighting for her...

Speaking of Rinoa why would she be Ultimecia

Theorie debunkt...BAM

Jadi Pelajarilah Ini Dulu Itu Lanjutkan Bahwa Sebenarnya Time&Space Compress Lebih Dari Segala Galanya Jika Kamu Abai Entah Berantah

but Ultemcia is shriveled and ugly :( Rinoa isn't...

I should point out that Ultimecia made multiple attempts on Rinoa's life during the course of the game's plot. I highly doubt Ultimecia would ever be stupid enough to attempt something that effectively amount to *retroactive suicide,* considering the fact that she already had a sinister plot to live for. That's why I think Rinoa is NOT Ultimecia.