Best of luck!

@@rbarlow Thanks!

You are running 12k of screen off a single GPU? Surely GPU is the limit for that setup?

Onboard graphics really can’t handle x-Plane or MSFS

@@rbarlow Yes, I know. I have a GTX1650 which works well with 2 monitors but I wanted to try out Airmanager so maybe another card is best for that. I have a spare 1050ti and a Quadro, it's just squeezing them in the case.

Ha ha welcome to the club

Short answer ... sure. A single computer is definitely better. It will definitely happen pretty soon. I remember when guys had dimes with 5 computers each with a single monitor and it’s own install of XP and all networked. Whew! Maybe when XP supports true multi threaded operation and with the RTX30xx series gpus it may be time? Only a rich man can test the theory.

@@rbarlow Hi Russ, I found myself back here watching this again a year later. I think I got even more out of it the 2nd time around! What an excellent job you did producing, editing, organizing and teaching on this topic! The system you created REALLY speaks to me because out of the 4 (I believe) most important performance levels, "good", "better", "high performance BUT being budget conscious", and "best period", you really NAILED that 3rd category. I also feel that if budget allows, that's the ideal performance level to shoot for because stopping at "better" will inevitably leave levels of performance that will eventually end up mattering unaddressed, and the "best" is a fool's errand because it's a constantly moving target and has little extra yield. The only question I have is, now that we're looking back on this 2 years after you published this really excellent video; is it possible that if you now left everything in your setup exactly the same, with the ONLY upgrade being to change from your current GPU, the "GTX 1070 Ti" to say, an "RTX 3070 Ti", is it possible that that would accomplish 2 goals: 1) Yield a very high "bang for the buck" improvement (less than $1000 for that GPU I believe), and 2) Make huge improvements to efficiencies in the form of, less physical space tied up by 2 computers, fewer directions that cables have to be run, less involved to operate, less complicated networking needs, lowered electricity usage and cost by eliminating one of the PCs, etc? In essence, would that one change alone be enough that a 2nd computer would no longer be needed? Would love to hear your thoughts on that! Either way, thanks so much for all you do and I'm looking forward to making a solid start on my own flight sim setup within a few short months!

show it on video! ;)

Yes I have second PCIe slot

Shhhh! Not so loud.😀

Excellent! I am subscribed and looking forward to it. I live in Cincinnati, Ohio which is PartnerStadt von München where I think you live. I love München but was stationed in Ramstein AB from 1978-1981. Tschüss

PS: I did purchase a second license for the FltInst machine. So it not a license issue.

Ok, I figured it out. Actually you figured it out Rus. I pondered over this and tried all sorts of things today. However, it never clicked until about one hour ago. I remembered that you said that your visual machine had to be the External Visual and the Instrument machine had to be the master. So I switched everything around and made it reflect, what I remember you said! Guess what, it worked now the G1000 works flawlessly!!! The only problem was for some reason the yoke and throttle and other USB device stopped working. So I switched them over to the master machine also they started working also. RUS BARLOW!!! You are the MAN!!! By the way Rus, I have been buying Simulator things and slipping them up to my man cave, and some others she new about. However, I could not hide this second computer. She asked me today, how much more money are you going to stuff into that flight simulator!!! I said honey, I am pretty much done buying for it for now. She said good!!! Then I went back upstairs, and began thinking, Gosh three 4K TV's instead of these 27" monitors sure would finalize my system. Well, I'm not saying I'm not going to do that, but it will not be for a few weeks or months:) I think I'm a Simulator addict or junky!!!! Thanks Rus!!! I'm not thank you for contributing to my addiction. I'm thanking you for you ingenious HELP and willingness to share!!! I would love to fly some where with you and get dinner and a beer! Virtually of-course!

Glad you figured it out. I read through your first message and was about to make a response when I read your second message that you had solve the problem. Yes only the master computer will reflect the GPS changes, the slave or external visual computer can display the pop out window but it will not be changed. You’ve got it figured out now. The master needs to run the flight controls and the panels. The external visual only shows the scenery. It’s funny but if you put the 3-D cockpit on the external visual there are even a few controls that will not reflect changes made on the master computer. It seems kind of silly but the two don’t talk to each other in all respects. As for the locked or independent view, you want the independent view because if it is locked every time you change the view on the master the orientation of the visual view will be changed on the external visual. Glad you figured it out enjoy your new Sam.

@@rbarlow Thanks again Rus! Wil

21-23” is fine. Stick with capacitive touch if possible.

:) still need a haircut where I cannot see myself.

Great ideas I’ll look into that for a future video

David Rowlands they are 2+ year old Visio M49 49” LCD and don’t handle rapid motion well like newer TVs. Check out Ratings.com for gaming TV reviews. iPads running standalone with Air Manager will not slow your visual computer but neither does a networked PC. The main reason I use the second computer is so that I can put X plane pop out windows on the panel screens.

Thank for replying Russ, I am currently re-building my own home cockpit and now wish to add surround screens. I have followed your advice and reviewed large tv screens on Ratings.com, however all the large tv’s reviewed are 4K only. Although I have a robust spec PC with video memory card of 12 Gb, my concern is that 3 x 4K 50ins tv’s running from one PC will over burden my system. Therefore, looking out for 3x reasonable HD 50INS TV’’s that may give me decent outside visuals. I would welcome your feed back before I commit myself to any purchases. I do have a 49 ins HD widescreen monitor, and wondering whether an extra 2 x 27 ins monitor may suffice for the left and right outside views, or would the fact that these are different to the 49 ins monitor that the mix and match visuals will not look right?

Andrew Reich glad someone got the humor! Thanks.

@@rbarlow I also thought it was funny....I'm a Russ Barlow "follower" and have been getting all my ideas on your channel. Since being in lockdown I've watched almost all your videos and my "minister of war, peace and finance (aka, THE WIFE)" was generous to buy me a new flight sim PC this week (waiting for it to be delivered today), man I love my wife, and THEN the minster's war abilities kicked in, at the very moment yesterday when I said "now I need to spend about $500 on the actual software, planes and knobster (she knows everything about the knobster, it's been the gospel from my mouth for the last three days), to keep it short, I lost the battle for software and the knobster, my credit card was confiscated and I am writing this from the deep down darkness of the basement...at least I have a basement (soon with a good gaming pc, with no flight sim on it), wish me luck ;-)

Unfortunately you need a second license for the second computer.

Hi Mel. For the second PC to show xp popouts, that pc also needs to be running xp11 synced to the first. The popouts don’t export over network like air manager/player do.

Try kzfaq.info/get/bejne/etZjeq6nrd-mfn0.html kzfaq.info/get/bejne/qqtodd1z1bGWeZs.html kzfaq.info/get/bejne/a7N1orh6xs2zaZs.html

@@rbarlow Wow, fantastic little device! So glad you developed it for us, this is a game changer!

Speed Bird all 5 screens are FullHD 1939 z1080

It sounds like you need to calibrate your monitors. Go to window settings and search the word calibrate. It should offer a choice for calibrate pen and touch inputs. A dialogue should appear with a couple choices to click. I think you select set up but I know the other choices advanced calibration. Select set up and it should provide a white screen on each of your monitors one at a time with a message to touch it if it is a touch monitor. If not it will tell you to hit return to move to the next monitor. Once you’ve stepped through all the monitors windows will know which touch input grid is connected to which monitor. Then the inputs will be associated with the correct monitor when you make them. If not no matter which monitor you touch the input will be sent to your main monitor and you can probably see it move even though you’re touching a non-main monitor. Hope this is clear if not let me know and I’ll try to go into it further.

@@rbarlow Thanks for your reply Russ. I have been through all that you have suggested. The real problem is that the "setup" button does absolutely nothing. Not sure if it's a Windows 10 problem or an NVIDIA problem. I'm using three 24" HD monitors (setup in Surround) for the scenery and the plan is to use my two 15.6" touch screen monitors for Air Manager. I may have to get an IT technician in to try and sort it out for me. There are many people with this same problem on forums and no-one seems to have come up with a successful fix. Even Microsoft only suggest the standard setup procedure which doesn't work. Thanks again for your input Russ. Keep making your videos!

As I discussed in the video if you dumb down the graphics on the master unit which is also running your panel and air manager the computer needs are far reduced. That being said, I’m not sure the machine you have will meet the test but why not try it before you consider an upgrade. The real horse is really needed to drive the visuals. Sounds like a fun project. Keep me posted on your progress

@@rbarlow yes, it might be worth the try. Actually I might just try it both ways. I either pay for more software for the old computer plus a couple of dvi to hdmi adaptors for the old machine or another graphics card for the new PC. The best would be to just build a lower end secondary/master machine but that’s pushing the budget.. thanks again for the reply. I,m sure you must be getting overwhelmed with people asking you these questions..as for questions, here is one more. How are you connecting the wimaxit’s to your PC, one HDMI-C?. I will ask this over on you other touch panel video as will. Thanks again.

I do not use surround as it badly stretches the image toward the outer edges of the surround view. I use separate views for each monitor as well as any panel view. There is a performance FPS hit but it is worth it to get a geometrically accurate view. I did a video on this kzfaq.info/get/bejne/l518mbui1c-ReWw.html

Yes Another card could be used but it really won’t help a lot because the actual video processing is all done in the XP the main video card so it would only take the pixels and push them to the other monitor. Much better than onboard video

Russ Barlow ok thank you

I have gone through a similar experience to that which Russ is currently going through. I run two video cards rather than the onboard graphics with effectively six monitors, two RealsimGear Units and an Air Manager panel. The latter three are all resolution limited due to size and design, but are more than adequate to keep me flying and that was with OpenGL. Vulkan significantly improved the situation. Why not use the onboard video instead of another graphics card? I found that the onboard Intel graphics at the time on a Z370 chipset were pulling my FPS down to 8 to 10 which is not something anyone could live with in a flight sim. I am slightly overclocked on a system similar to that which Russ was describing albeit with a 1080TI. I tried an older Radeon HD5770 I had laying around (unhealthy computer parts obsession) and plugged that in. Worked well, but found a Nvidia 1060 OC on clearance at the big box store up the street. Decided to keep all the cards using the same driver, bought that and things worked better with a generally acceptable level even with OpenGL. Be advised there is one catch currently with this setup at least on my system. EVERY driver update resets the Nvidia Physx setting to the 1060 OC rather than the 1080 TI. I have not checked the BIOS to see if this is a setting in there to prioritize slots for the graphics card which might be able to control this. Had the same problem with the onboard Intel graphics before I abandoned that idea. I do note that EGPU selection is one of the items on LR's to-do list which would probably solve that issue. Whether Vulkan could work for me with the onboard Intel graphics I do not know, though I have thought about adding a seventh display as a moving map on another spare monitor that I have. I have enough video ports now to add two through Intel and one each through the Nvidia units. I did find that a fourth monitor off the 1080 TI did drag down performance a little but was still acceptable till I added the RealSimGear units, hence the second GPU addition. BTW, Russ did not say what resolution he was running his big screens at. I'm running three 27-inch 2K monitors for scenery and prior to Vulkan I was not able to run them with an acceptable FPS at resolution beyond 1920 x 1080. With Vulkan I now run at a full 2k on each with little to no perceptible difference on the latest 11.5b3 between the resolutions. Vulkan IS amazing. Russ, keep up the good work as what you have been doing is what got me this far! And kudos to LR for being able to dramatically improve the cost-effectiveness of two-year old hardware. Now, about that I9 I have been thinking about? ;-)

I have to admit I haven’t tried out the new G5 yet and I’m not sure exactly how the actual unit switches modes. Unfortunately unless the knob also serves a pushbutton function to change mode it would require special programming of the G5 unit because it is programmed to operate like the real thing. On the other hand you could easily get an Arduino nano and a push button and encoder and with Air Manager easily make a unit dedicated to the G5 work however you like. I could advise you if you like

@@rbarlow Thank you, Russ, I'll look into that.

My mistake Russ, you CAN in fact push-click the Knobster and it allows you to change the heading/OBS/bearing modes... sorry for the misunderstanding... thx again!... Joey

Visio HDMI TVs 4k but running at 1080p using DisplayPort to HDMI adapters for some connections.

FHD

Marc the only multi monitor support available for FS2020 now is using Nvidia surround that effectively make the three monitors into a virtual wide single monitor. Problem is that it stretches the image badly on the outer half of the side monitor making things look wider that reality and closer. Objects that move by you ( like runway lights on takeoff) on the side seem too fast. Hopefully a future upgrade will allow for individual views for each monitor so it is geometrically correct when viewed. Of course VR will solve all of this.

@@rbarlow but fortunately the cost of an xp license is one of the least expensive and most productive investments in this “game”

Good plan. Easily expandable in the future if you want to.

Check out www.rtings.com/tv to learn about TV selection. Look for the section on gaming TVs. Most modern LCD TVs work quite well for gaming now. The thing to be aware of is that some earlier TVs had bad input lag which was unacceptable. Also if you intend to have two side monitors in a three monitor set up be sure that the side viewing angle is good....not too washed out with about 30 degrees off center side view.

I know certain DisplayPort displays can be daisy chained but I doubt it could work with the G1000s. Option two is to add a second video card but the first card will still be doing all the XP work and the second just supples a screen buffer and more ports. There will be a frames hit. If you go the second computer route it is best and a last generation gaming computer can easily handle it for a reasonable price... but you need a second XP license and have to keep two computers updated. It is the best route still imho

Russ Barlow Thanks Russ. I truly appreciate your opinion!

Way more than enough, Robert. I run xp and msfs on 3 screens at 1440 and medium settings with a touchscreen for air manager and it looks good on i9 and 1080 (not ti).

@@henryrcrawford thanks!

Russ has another video showing this in detail - have a look!

Yes it was quite an old video on setting up a multi view sim but it is still valid. I have the side monitors back at 60 degrees for a 180 total field of view. Here is the video. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/htCUmrJzr5vcm4U.html

@@rbarlow Thanksssss!!!

Currently X plane 11 really only supports a single graphics card to do the actual graphics. You can use a second graphics card to provide more ports but really you don’t gain that much performance only the ability to connect more monitors. Of course the CPU can also be a limiting factor.The second GPU could run Air Manager and other supporting apps.

@@rbarlow - Do you know what the video software architecture looks like on 11.50 for a Mac?

@@rbarlow - After my research from yesterday I’m fairly sure that the capability is there in the Mac hardware and the OSX Window Manager but I’m not sure Laminar has taken advantage if it yet.

I have used the iPad as an external monitor via USB but it wasn’t great. A dedicated USB monitor especially USB 3.0 it would probably be pretty good.

@@rbarlow it's just hard to beat TVs on pricing. Just seen a small 4K TV for around $100. Can always use a Raspberry Pi to take load off your system. The latest gen is quite powerful. But i guess no touch screen with a Pi.

I'm using a cheap (50$ if I remember right) 7" touchscreen LCD screen that was designed for Rasberrypi stuff as a GTN750 screen. Basically just an external monitor. Works great for those smaller screens like GPS and such. It included an HDMI cable to plug directly into my PC (though I only have one HDMI port and 4 DisplayPorts, so had to get an adpater). I haven't noticed the framerate being an issue at all as far as just running the 750 or 650 on it.

Just to be sure are you using the HDMI and the two usb-c ports for usb to computer and the other to the power adapter plugged into an outlet?

@@rbarlow Yessir. I just got off chat with Windows Tech. I followed his instructions to a T and to no avail. Windows 11 refuses to give me an option to calibrate anything but display quality. I have verified data and power ports are correct on the Wimaxits. I am now #307 in line for Windowa tech again. 1. Is your system Windows 10 or 11? 2. When you type "calibrate" in Search does it give you the option to calibrate touch input? 3. Does that option go away if monitors are unplugged. Juat curious

@@WaltKingLee I am using Windows 10 and several people have had this problem but these solution’s usually work. One problem is that these monitors can get the video signal via HDMI OR USB-C. Some guys tried to use the USB-C video input but touch never worked. I suspect if the HDMI input was faulty it might revert to the USB? Windows 11could be the culprit but I really can’t say. All I do know is that usually connecting things correctly made the pen and touch option show up when searching calibrate. If the usb signal for the touch digitizer is missing windows doesn’t sense any need to offer the pen and touch calibration option. Found you have an old windows 10 machine you could test things on? That might rule out any hardware issues with the monitors and cables.

@@rbarlow It did work fine on my Windows 10 old Alienware 1080 i7 desktop.

@@WaltKingLee sounds like a windows 11 related issue … any new drivers for Wimaxit and Win 11?

are both of your monitors plugged into your video card? Meaning there isn't one plugged into your main computer (mother board).

definately a good idea but I don't have one sitting around. XP still does all it's processing on the main card but Air manager can use the second card.

my second video card didn't help in this scenario. A second entire computer (7 years old with a 1050Ti) to drive the instrument panels did make an improvement.

They go faster :) Seriously if the CPU is the limiting factor the fps will improve. If the graphics card is limiting, it will not increase fps.

Sounds interesting but am I running two instances of XP11, one on each VM?

@@rbarlow yes, basically you would run two copies of Windows and two copies of Xplane on one PC. Here is an example of what it can do: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/Y7OXodqfmdrbink.html . That said, I haven't personally tried this yet. I am currently building an AMD-based system and considering trying out unraid on it. Another alternative is to run two copies of xplane on your PC in the single instance of Windows. Both will be using your main GPU but if the limit on your framerate is your CPU then two copies of xplane may use the threads/cores better than a single instance of xplane.

Ok. So I have managed to get two copies of xplane working on single install of Windows. Each instance of xplane is rendering on a different GPU. The weaker GPU is running at about 50% load, and the stronger one is running at 15% load. They each currently have one 1080p screen attached and I have set vsync. The instances of xplane are sharing the same files for scenery etc so almost no extra storage required. I made each instance use a different GPU using nvidia settings for the GPU to use for open gl (which also seems to control vulkan). Both screens are currently running at 50fps with visual effects, texture quality and world objects set to max. I need to add some more screens to see how it scales, but currently I am optimistic

yes looking at a butt kicker. Seat mount or floor mount?

@@rbarlow Mine is on the seat. I use mine for DCS. At Kobuleti airport the taxi way is separated by cement sections. I can feel the bumps in the taxi way between the sections. You will be able to feel a stall before it gets bad. I had it turned up too much when I first got it and when I landed on the carrier, it knocked the picture off the wall in the room next to me, lol.

Yes that would work fine although you cannot display external windows from X plane on the iPad because unless you’re using it as an external monitor (via duet display or some other software and a cable) it is on a different computer so it has no access to any windows from X-Plane. Of course if you’re only going to display area manager instruments on the iPad it would work great.

Run in OpenGL mode until X-Life is compatible. You will miss the high FPS of Vulkan. Sorry.

Thanks. I have not found a truly realistic force feedback yoke yet...including in airline sims I have flown. They genrally act nice but occasionally the feel like they are a machine fighting with me. That is more distracting that just not have FF...my opinion after 23000 flight hours for General Aviation, to fighters, to Airlines. I appreciate your comment.

@@rbarlow Appropriate products will appear in the future. Just like a mobile phone, the current mobile phone has the same capabilities as the previous pc. Flight simulation allows me to travel around the world.

The secondary PC has to run another copy of X-Plane in order to provide pop-out windows.

Phong Nguyen yes Bob is correct. It is quite easy to network to copies of X-Plane running on separate computers. See my previous video for more details. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/lad3nbmhmKyznJ8.html

Kevin yes I just didn’t have one readily available and always wondered about using the onboard video as a fifth port. I don’t even think the video card would have to be that strong since it is running all 2D windows in XP pop outs and Air Manager

Amazing, Though what did you tell her when she said what the hell?

@@tomatosoupwoo I said I work and I just spent $400.00 on her Jeep

I wish. I have a 2080ti but on my VR sim. I wanted this to reflect a more middle of the road setup.

@@rbarlow Russ, thanks for your reply. I’m considering a 5950X with 64GB ram and potentially 1 or 2 3090’s (NVlink) for a 1440p or 4k 60 triple setup. Given that the 5950X has 16 cores maybe it could work. Though I’m not sure, like you said, about just 1 3090.

Vulkan is an updated graphical rendering system that is replacing OpenGL. It offers more granular control of the rendering process and lets programmers avoid bottlenecks that lead to stutters i freezes in X-Plane. So far it seems to have done wonders for XP.

My experience as an airline pilot in multi-million dollar state of the art simulators is that the motion systems offer a diminishing return for the investment. If done wrong they can actually detract from realism. Studies have shown actual pilot training in fixed base trainers had no appreciable difference in outcome than full motion systems. That being said I will try to get a trial of the DOF Reality System to prove myself wrong.

Russ Barlow interesting, please do. I’m just an A&P mechanic myself so I’ve only ever worked on the avionics in a few of these sims, but never got to use one. In the process of building my own sim!