Fixing a C64 with NO SOUND! Plus... Why does the SwinSID Nano for the Commodore 64 Sound so AWFUL?

Рет қаралды 7,002

11 ай бұрын

** This video is kindly supported by www.PCBWay.com - My choice for for high quality PCB manufacturing, 3D printing and more! I thank them, and Elaine Hu for their wonderful support! **
In this video we look at a Commodore 64 Breadbin that has LOST it's voice. After some investigation we find the issue. We also try a modern replacement for the SID chip... a SwinSID Nano... and it SOUNDS TERRIBLE! What have I done wrong?
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Пікірлер: 91

@sx64man 11 ай бұрын

Unfortunately the Swinsid does not support paddles and there are a lot of audio artifacts - so you will see the error in the diag. Armsid or Backsid are better options IMHO.

@MarkFixesStuff 11 ай бұрын

Thanks for this. I’m a noob with SID replacement options and just grabbed a cheap one from eBay to try. I’m glad this sound and reaction are “normal” though, and not my error.

@waynekeenansvideos 11 ай бұрын

SwinSID doesn't support the paddles (or audio thru) hence the controller error. Get an ARMSID.

@robertsissco2439 11 ай бұрын

I did a C64 build with all modern parts (I just got the J-CIA's two weeks ago) and started with a SwinSID as I didn't even know about the ARMSID. As soon as I learned about that, I bought one and swapped them out. Since I don't do a lot with paddles, I added to my sparechips bin in case I do have a SID that gives up the ghost.

@MarkFixesStuff 11 ай бұрын

Does the ARMSID have the phantom notes?

@networkg Ай бұрын

Best replacement now is probably the Sidkick Pico or the Armsid.

@IDPhotoMan 11 ай бұрын

Having about every kind of SID, my rankings are: 1. FPGASID 2. ARMSID 3. BackSID 4. SwinSID Ultimate

@MarkFixesStuff 11 ай бұрын

This is a super useful list! Thank you so much! I’m guessing there’s a cost premium though?

@borayurt66 11 ай бұрын

@@MarkFixesStuff My vote is on ARMSID when it comes to the cost/benefit approach. It works well (I may say 95% accurate, others may say 99%), but it is a very well backed up commercial product. It is constantly being developed in the software side and the users can download improved firmwares to upgrade their ARMSIDs. Firmware upgrades are done without removing the ARMSID from the board, or even without opening up the C64. It is done by a software that can be run by the C64 via a real floppy disk, or your personal choice of a FDD emulator. And there is another software to make some settings to the ARMSID (choose preset 6581 and 8580 modes, even configure your ARMSID to sound anyway you like) FPGASID is the expensive choice because FPGA's have become ridiculously expensive these days, but I hear it is very very good too. BackSID, I don't have enough information to comment on. SwinSID Ultimate seems to be unobtainium, there are photos of it, test and review videos of it, but no where to buy it. And the ones that are being tested seem like pre-release prototypes with wires botched, stuff attached on with hot melt glue etc.

@deborahberi3249 8 ай бұрын

My SwinSID Firmware is the "Lazy Jones" version and it made a good difference is a number of games and a great test is the game of the same name as the fix, lol. -Mark.

@Aeoringas 11 ай бұрын

Needs an ARMSID, a way better replacement than the one you used here.

@MarkFixesStuff 11 ай бұрын

Thanks! I grabbed a “cheap thing” from eBay with no knowledge. I’m keen to try an ARMSID!

@1MartinD28 10 ай бұрын

Does pin 28 have to have over 12v to operate the 6581 properly or would 11.xx do? I thought I had a bad 6581 but a replacement ARMSID isn’t recognised during the configuration prg/setup. Great video, thanks

@MarkFixesStuff 10 ай бұрын

12v is the ideal voltage but due to voltage drops across the circuit it's rare to see it "bang on". I don't know anything about the ARMSID. It might be worth trying a known good PSU?

@RyanMercer 11 ай бұрын

I'm not a fixer. I break things.

@catriona_drummond 11 ай бұрын

but do you move fast, too? ;)

@MarkFixesStuff 11 ай бұрын

Mostly wind, Ryan?

@RyanMercer 11 ай бұрын

@@MarkFixesStuff stop talking to my wife.

@robertsissco2439 11 ай бұрын

I had Retro Rewind's C64 Diag harness from before, and yea, it is top notch stuff. Even the harness cases are 3D printed in a way that they feel solid and strong

@MarkFixesStuff 11 ай бұрын

The 3D printing is excellent quality! It’s a great tool

@KAPTKipper 11 ай бұрын

For me the big issue is the winSID doesn't do POT inputs, so no mice and other devices. I have 6 busted SIDs. They seem to die on the shelf even.

@MarkFixesStuff 11 ай бұрын

Yeah. They definitely die in storage. It’s happened to one I know worked and they the channels disappeared on power on.

@KAPTKipper 11 ай бұрын

@@MarkFixesStuff Replaced mine with ARMSIDs, these are amazing, worth the few extra dollars

@Ojref1 11 ай бұрын

There are a few other options for fpga SIDs. Those particular chips made by MOS were just horrible and probably should have never been produced in such a state.

@MarkFixesStuff 11 ай бұрын

They do seem a bit flakey. I’m excited to compare some of the modern replacements though now!

@robertblom6050 11 ай бұрын

❤ love that MSX Carnivore2 cartridge in the background!

@MarkFixesStuff 11 ай бұрын

Video coming soon. I have a really beaten up MSX2 from Japan to look at!

@redhawk668 7 ай бұрын

SwinSID is based on an ATMega88 chip, which is an 8 bit microcontroller. So, it's not doing a bad job, actuallu. Due to this, it doesn't the paddle inputs, which are analog. If a C64 has a bad SID, it's a lowcost solution to have sound again. I've built a few myself. They are quite easy to build.

@RobA500 11 ай бұрын

I don’t think the SwinSID offers full control port emulation so that’s why you get the errors.

@MarkFixesStuff 11 ай бұрын

It would seem so Rob. Served me right drunken eBaying heh!

@ZettDarkstone 11 ай бұрын

good vid. there was a nice msx c2 cartridge in it.!.

@MarkFixesStuff 11 ай бұрын

I’m planning on using that soon! I still have to work out how to format the CF card and then there will be a video !

@DavePoo2 11 ай бұрын

SwinSID is basically an 8580 emulator, not a 6581 emulator. And due to its slower lower cost hardware, it does the best it can.

@MarkFixesStuff 11 ай бұрын

This explains a lot. What’s your preference?

@DavePoo2 11 ай бұрын

@@MarkFixesStuff I think it more of a case of what you have got and what you've got working. SwinSID is certainly better than no SID at all. I did a comparison vid which includes it kzfaq.info/get/bejne/epNkaqyZtrnQc4E.htmlsi=vs9BEPOs3m4OXzVp

@tommyovesen 11 ай бұрын

PotX and Y are analog signals that the SwinSID (and others) don't support. So the diag test will fail because of that. But the bad sound was a little strange..

@MarkFixesStuff 11 ай бұрын

Yes, I’m glad it’s not a computer error though. Sone others have pointed out the SwinSID has audio artifacts.

@borayurt66 11 ай бұрын

Apart from SwinSID Nano, all of the other plug-in SID replacements support paddle reading.

@tommyovesen 11 ай бұрын

Ok, thanks for the correction :) @@borayurt66

@borayurt66 11 ай бұрын

@@tommyovesen Yeah, also the bad sound is a SwinSID Nano thing. It is not a good SID replacement in any way, just an incomplete, abandoned project that people take advantage of by copying and selling on Ebay etc.

@kmolder9499 11 ай бұрын

Another video! Nice!

@MarkFixesStuff 11 ай бұрын

Thanks for watching again. Another video same time next week!!

@aner_bda 10 ай бұрын

Wow that SID chip is pretty much as old as I am!

@MarkFixesStuff 10 ай бұрын

You spelled “cool and vintage” wrong!

@d_vibe-swe 10 ай бұрын

I like Armsid. I did a detailed comparison between the Armsid and the 8580 Sidchip on my channel.

@MarkFixesStuff 10 ай бұрын

Great video! kzfaq.info/get/bejne/aMpmmqSm1M6voWQ.htmlsi=GT19JNfMkToLJC5E

@d_vibe-swe 10 ай бұрын

@@MarkFixesStuffThank you :)

@DJChol 11 ай бұрын

I can recommend the Wiha Chip Lifter. Better than a screwdriver.

@MarkFixesStuff 11 ай бұрын

I have the screwdrivers, so I’ll look into it. My previous chip lifters have been cheap.

@digitalarchaeologist5102 10 ай бұрын

Ha, so interesting. I ended up getting a chip puller because I was so bad with a flat blade, especially where there wasn't much room. For me it really works well, but honestly whatever works for anyone.

@MarkFixesStuff 10 ай бұрын

I was expecting a bit more “engagement” surrounding the chip puller 😂!

@digitalarchaeologist5102 10 ай бұрын

@@MarkFixesStuff So was I, but the next one should be a philips head - that would be impressive 🙂

@Doombrain 11 ай бұрын

It’s biggest issue is it’s not in the bin.

@MarkFixesStuff 10 ай бұрын

Don’t hold back mate. Say what you think! 😂

@NozomuYume 11 ай бұрын

A voiceless SID isn't much use, but I wonder about SIDs where the pots have died but the voices still work -- I wonder if there's enough call for a project to make a board that implements the pots but still passes the voices to the part of the SID that still works.

@robertsissco2439 11 ай бұрын

There is actually a blog post somewhere someone designed a board to do this. It would just be getting it printed.

@MarkFixesStuff 11 ай бұрын

I wonder how long until the rest of the SID rots though?

@NozomuYume 11 ай бұрын

@@MarkFixesStuff As I understand it the pots are mostly separate and the reason they die so much is that they're exposed on the joystick ports with zero protection against static.

@ownpj 11 ай бұрын

Just put your POTless SID as the second SID in a dual/stereo SID adaptor.

@NozomuYume 11 ай бұрын

@@ownpj Oh wow that's such a simple, good idea. =D

@baxtardboy 11 ай бұрын

Mark mate if I were a billionaire I'd pay you to present me with a video like this every morning at 7am, only I'd ask for more manky double entendres. I know you can do at least ONE of those things without requiring a billionaire sugar daddy.

@MarkFixesStuff 11 ай бұрын

If I were a billionaire I’d do this anyway, but pack in the job. Don’t forget patrons get exclusive manky vids btw.

@emmettturner9452 11 ай бұрын

The only SwinSID with proper analog controller input (paddles, mouse) is the SwinSID Ultimate so, yes, that is why the error came back.

@MarkFixesStuff 11 ай бұрын

Thanks for the confirmation :) it’s a relief that the issue isn’t the c64 as well

@borayurt66 11 ай бұрын

That's not correct. All the other SID replacements do paddle reading perfectly. The only one that can't do it is the SwinSID Nano.

@emmettturner9452 11 ай бұрын

@@borayurt66 Back when I selected the SwinSID Ultimate and got on the waiting list I did so because I was told it was the only one with paddle support. I was even researching to see if I could use my faulty SID for paddles with a SwinSID for sound.

@MQsto 11 ай бұрын

You didn't depress the "Dolby" -button, that was always the reason of terrible hi-fi sound in the eighties.

@MarkFixesStuff 11 ай бұрын

Thomas Dolby? You’ve blinded me with science!

@sanjyuu2298 7 ай бұрын

Swinsid is an old device not developed anymore, over 10 years ago it was one of the only options and first aproach to make a replacement, there was an approach to make Swinsid on ARM, but developer stopped at some point. It shouldn't be sold anymore, it's almost a scam, as there are better alternatives now. Swinsid Ultimate on the other hand is something made by a person who took original swinsid and modded it, propably hard to get now.

@MarcKloos 11 ай бұрын

No, the biggest issue with that micro is that it's a Commie 64

@MarkFixesStuff 11 ай бұрын

Oh Marc! The 8bit war is over… no?

@MarcKloos 11 ай бұрын

@@MarkFixesStuff Wel'll settle this after school hours on the playground!

@np02058 4 ай бұрын

a viking burial at sea!

@IDPhotoMan 11 ай бұрын

Yeah, the Nano isn't good. My Swinsid Ultimate sounds perfect though (and the paddles work just fine). But good luck finding a new one.

@MarkFixesStuff 11 ай бұрын

Ugh. I’m guessing that the project isn’t open so I can build my own then?

@borayurt66 11 ай бұрын

Mark, you being a KZfaq content creator that focuses on fixing stuff mainly retro computers, I don't think you watch enough channels of the same genre. It is quite common knowledge that SwinSID Nano is an abandoned project because it did not succeed. It quicky became very apparent that The MCU used was not enough to emulate the mighty SID in an acceptable level, this and some ego wars has stopped this project in its tracks without ever being finalized. Apart from being a terrible emulator, it can't do the analog pot reading that the original SID was tasked in a C64. That's why you are receiving that error. Despite this, people are still copying this project and selling on eBay etc places to the people that does not do their research before buying. The only thing a SwinSID is good for is to test whether something is terribly wrong with a C64 board that may kill a genuine SID, or one of the better emulators when powered on.

@MarkFixesStuff 11 ай бұрын

Thanks! This is my first foray into SID replacements. The SwinSID nano was a drunk eBay purchase. I’ve learned a lot from my viewers here!! Thanks for this great history!

@MarkFixesStuff 11 ай бұрын

(I am a Spectrum guy really… shhhhhh 😂 )

@borayurt66 11 ай бұрын

@@MarkFixesStuff Well, although commendable, that's no excuse for not doing your homework now, is it? 😂 My first computer was also a Spectrum 48K Rubberkey. In fact I still have it in perfectly working condition (took some working) along with other Spectrums. I too have a special place in my heart for Speccies, but I do own other 8bits, like various C64's, even an Amiga 500+ that takes me to the world of 16bit whenever I feel like it.😁

@MarkFixesStuff 11 ай бұрын

@@borayurt66 well done for keeping the rubber keyed beauty going! With the Commodore machines I discover along with my viewers help so you have to forgive me. It’s all for fun and discussion in the short videos ;)