The only hookles system that works is Giant/cadex hookless. Their tires and rims can go up to 8.6 bar in spec. I rode with 25mm at pressures around 6bar no problem. The unfortunate thing is that their tires are horrible when it comes to rolling resistance, it was very noticeable to me (I've used Cadex race tire on giant slr wheels that came with the bike). I searched for tire alternatives but in the end I didn't find a tire on Giants approved list that I trusted enough as I've seen enough posts with tires from reputable brands blowing off. Schwalbe pro one is probably the only tire other that Cadex/Giant I would trust for hookless as they have been in tubeless game for a long time without any records of them blowing off. In the end I got hooked rims and gone back to tubes. Besides bold marketing claims, hookless doesn't bring any advantage to the consumer. The whole new complicated regulation, testing, tire approval lists, increasing tire sizes, lowering of max pressures way below regular road pressures just so the manufacturers could get rid of one small hook and save on some manufacturing costs. The consumer ends up taking more risk, has to be informed and up to date on latest ETRTO specification, has to pay the same amount for the rims without hooks and buy more expensive tubeless, hookless approved, tires...

Thank you again and good to see that you have managed to get Conti and Extralight to investigate further. Well done!!

I was rolling my eyes the moment Mapdec said "TL not approved" and it just kept getting more cringe from there. It was so ill informed that it made me question so many other videos he's put out before for accuracy. Way to take a big dump on his reputation with a single video. Anyway. But let's focus on what's good here. Fact that you were able to get conti's attention is AWESOME. For all we know they might even improve their tires for the future or set some sort of new standards that wheel manufacturers can maybe follow / test against seeing as how many riders out there are conti tire fans including me.

The MAPDEC video on this blowout- topic was such mess. Don't know what it is, but it seems like he lost the plot quite some time ago. A bit weird because on the one hand he seems to have a more critical approach to the cycling industry but lately he comes up with more and more weird and ill-informed videos. A bike shop that tries to punch above its weight but just lacks the competence for certain topics...

That’s a good update and summary. I’m 82kg / 13 stone 0 in old money. I ran 70/72 on my 28mm tubeless. On my hookless with 32mm R3 I ran just 48/50 psi. Moist people run too much pressure on this new generation of tyres in my opinion. Tubeless generally is fine 28mm and over. MTB and gravel also good as tubeless and hookless on over 35/40mm tyres with 22-30mm inner rim width.

I have to say that everything you've presented in the follow up shows facts as opposed to supposition from Mapdec. On the one hand he comes across as knowledgeable, but in this instance he's made himself look stupid. Looking forward to hearing what conti say. Glad to hear you weren't injured.

Can't wait to hear what Continental has to say about it. I switched to road tubeless back in the middle of 2019. Initially, it was GP5000 TL on Roval CL50 (hooked). I didn't particular like the GP5000 TL because both tires were shredding hair-like threads from the sidewall and I was told that was common. I also dislike the fact that the tire bead would unmount when it's deflated. This seems to be quite common with the CL50 as I later tested the rim with Schwalbe Pro One TLE (700x28) and the same thing would happen when the tire's deflated. I have been riding on the Enve 4.5 AR disc (max tire pressure 80 PSI) / Schwalbe Pro One TLE (700x28, maximum tire pressure 95 PSI) combination for the past three years, getting over 10,000 miles and now onto the third set of tires. Unlike the GP5000 TL/Roval CL50 combo, the tire bead stays mounted even when the tire is completely deflated. I weigh 88 kg and I run the tire pressure at 66/67.5 PSI front and rear. Thankfully I have not experienced any blowout, like the one in your video.

Great followup; very keen to learn what Conti/Extralight come back with on this.

Zipp and Enve both recommend a max PSI of 73.5 , I am running 25mm internal width with 30mm Continental gp 5000 S TR at 60-63 psi no problems on hookless. ( I am 85-90KG) Forgot to check pressure yesterday and checked them when I got home. they were at 50 and 53 PSI. no problems at 30 mph or in corners and speed / feel was good. Have gone 50 mph downhill. My understanding is that over 73.5 is a no no regardless of tire size. I would not personally run 25mm tires hookless and tubeless. just my opinion. All my bikes are now tubeless. Fatbike. gravel . MTB and now road. I do spin them and move them around for 24 hours before using them as a precaution and also check the stem and the bead and the tire itself for leaks. If the tire will not hold enough pressure overnight I have resorted to a water dunk tank to locate sealing problems. for the record the conti 30MM are a sweet ride. I like them better than the Vittoria Corsa

Good on you for following up and great that the companies concerned are making the effort to investigate. It seems that, although failures are infrequent, there is still quite a bit of sorting out to do before hookless can be considered bombproof. Why on earth we had to move away from hooked rims is a complete mystery other than companies trying shave a few more pennies out of a market that is already paying ridiculously high prices for goods. How bicycles and parts cost more than motorbikes is, again, a mystery (or is it?).

Saluti on the Giant site there is this recommendation...Please note that the Continental GP5000 S TR tire is apt for use on Giant hookless WheelSystems and is a different tire from the previous generation Continental GP5000 TL tire. Please also note that as per Continental's specifications on rim inner width, The Continental GP5000 S TR in size 700x25C is only compatible with our 42mm deep WheelSystems.

Mapdec is wrong on the tyre. He’s right on the fact the inner rim width is too wide for 25mm. 21 requires a 28mm tyre. Main thing is it came off when you were not riding. Stay safe 👍

Pretty crazy that you have to defend yourself for following all spec sheets and being within all required margins. It's a clear engineering foul up by one or more company. In my opinion it's a symptom of an overall imperfect design, which is an inherently more risky and less sensible system. All who watch this content are much more in the know. For our friends, family members colleagues dipping their toes into the sport, getting into cycling, being sold a bike with these wheels, i fear for their safety. Kudos to continental for picking this up quickly i guess

Hope you get this sorted, its educating many of us 🇫🇮😎

That is great customer service from Conti! That tire is going to be a go to for so many riders trying to go tubeless, it really has to work. I will be very interested to hear what the upshot is. I think your bang on, the tolerance sweet spot at 25c seems to be right on the limit of what can be made to work. I consider myself very lucky that my Bontreger R3 26c worked first time with Hunt Aero 30's. It really has been a dream setup in all but getting the tyre on and off the rim which is a fkn pig! I'm about to swap onto some Specialised Turbo 28's and I'm a bit apprehensive, even with the extra volume.

thought you explained it perfectly in the first video. The question is, what are the wheel company going to do about it and also possibly highlights the safety of these Conti tyres!

Of course you’re right that things are tested beyond any recommendations. Here’s how CADEX do it: HIGH PRESSURE TOLERANCE TEST: First, the tyre is inflated to 72.5 psi (5 bar), an average minimum pressure for most riders on 25c tyres, and must withstand this pressure for 24 hours without blowing off. Next, the tire is inflated to its recommended maximum pressure and must withstand this pressure for 24 hours without blowing off. After that, the tyre is inflated to 1.2 times the recommended maximum pressure and must withstand this pressure for 24 hours without blowing off. Finally, the tyre is inflated to 1.5 times the recommended maximum pressure and must withstand this pressure for 24 hours without blowing off. The final number of 1.5 times the recommended maximum pressure is intended to simulate such extreme conditions as hitting a square edge or a pothole at high speed causing the tyre pressure to increase suddenly. If the tyre has been able to withstand the four pressures for 24 hours respectively without blowing off, it passes the CADEX high pressure tolerance test. For your own safety, please do not inflate the tyre over the recommended maximum pressure or attempt to replicate this test. My money is on a faulty Conti tyre. They’re shit. But they’ll never admit they’re wrong.

I think when going with hookless the old ways of skinnier tires at max pressure should be thrown out the window. Thanks for the update!

Where is the original video - I cannot find it now?

At the end of the day I’m sure Mapdec are in the business of selling these rims

Don't matter what you do will always be 2 camps. Pro and Against, we are grateful for sharing , hopefully you can get to the bottom of this issue and find the culprit

Thanks for your response on mapdeck vid. You didn't make any mistake, well, maybe one, you've get hookless rims. I've tried to explain him this. I've never go for hookless rims for road bike, unless we start to use MTB tires 😅

Well said, Looks like you've opened a can of worms.

I predicted people would say "gotta set em up right bro" the mapdec guy is just a shill for this dangerous product to make money on it. Disgusting, i pumped up clinchers and tubs to 125 psi and NEVER have they blown out or come off the rim. Thats the bike industry for you, screw safety i wanna make money, thats how it works

Have you ever tried 28mm tyres by any chance? Just wondering if there’s a reason not to test and see?

Do let us know what the follow up is from Conti. Super interested in this as I’ve run hookless for a while now.

Did you ever test the back wheel/tire? ..presumably, same type of tire, same rim profile.. would eliminate a defective tire or rim on the front as the cause.. maybe identified a QC problem... and yes.. from what you've presented you have not established that this is a fundamental problem with "tubeless"... could be a host of different reasons.. defective tire, compatibility problem with rim and tire.. maybe just at certain pressures. Tangent... I'm about your weight.. ~60 - 65kg (depending how much winter fat carrying 😀)... I run road tubeless, 25mm (hooked) at about 53psi.. went from 80 --> 50 --> back up to 53 for cornering stability and less frequent bottoming out.. but if I'm going to be on gravely roads on a ride I will run them as low as 45psi

I think the 25mm tire was your issue If not the rim. As I stated in you last video I've had no issues with my Zipp 404s. All the hookless compatible tires I've used were 28mm.

A decade ago Mavic was one of the first companies to address this problem. The solution they came up with was to design both the tire and rim together to a more exacting standard called Mavic UST (Universal system tire). I believe UST was a special tire made with a very strong, stretch resistant bead wire, which was not a folding version.

Old cutlass bearings?!

Good to see you are addressing comments. I'm sure there is plenty of people in favour (me included) and against hookless. You have clearly demonstrated that Extralite hookless and GP5000S TR aren't the best idea ;-). I think Extrlight's manual is somewhat confusing. They don't state size on GP5000S TR, this may be a simple mistake. What is confusing is a term they used 1:15 Semi-hooked, does it mean hookless, or micro hooked like the latest Orbea's wheels. I guess there will be another video when you get an update from both companies.

I think the extralite instruction pdf is super confusing. The max psi chart on the right hand side of the doc you referred to said 6.5bar, but over in the text instructions it says never to exceed 5 bar when seating the tyre. Just running this through the SRAM calculator, the tyre is right on the recommended limit. Not having a crack at you at all, but more that extralites instructions aren't clear at all, an am glad to read they are investigating

I’ve been running road tubeless hooked since I got a Giant back in 2017. Rims with Giant 25’s. That was too small. Had Conti GP 5000 28’s that worked great. Could not locate to replace, so put Pirelli Race TLR 28’s on Hunt Aero Light. Even easier and better, IMO. But, the limited option for tires and even a few stories like this keeps me from getting hookless rims. Something has to get better.

That MAPDEC video was the dumbest take i have seen on this topic. I am not sure the short term bump in his view count was worth it in terms of long term impact to his reputation. As they say you can work hard to develop a reputation over years but lose it overnight.

I personally don't understand the people attacking you over on weightweenies. If that blowout happened to me, I would be both annoyed and concerned. I think some of us older riders that used to ride at maybe 100-120psi on 21c tyres, yeah, we are more surprised when a tyre at only 5 bar blows out.

Yeah, I saw that "follow-up" video on this, also commented on it. Your demonstration might be on the corners of allowances (as it's the minimum width tire on the table for that rim width) and the maximum allowed pressure, but everything is still on the ALLOWED range. I do would like to see the same test on the rear tire, but just to understand if it can be a manufacturing problem on either the rim or tire (like a one-off defect), or if it's clearly not enough margins on this. Personally, I would not run a 25mm tire there, but that has nothing to do with it being on the APPROVED list, and you having issues, if it's there, it NEEDS to work. Good on Continental to want to do the failure analysis. I have good experiences with hookless rims, but with 43mm tires, so not comparable here. For the road wheels I use hooked rims, because I could see not a significant difference to hookless at the time I was ordering them, and had a couple of tires in stock I wanted to run out. But your video touched on one of my scares, as the though of a tire de-beading on a downhill corner (blowout or puncture) ... I had a blowout with a GP4000 (with inner tubes) and it was super scary stuff. I now always run tubeless with the foam liners inside to try and prevent debeading.

How does hookless wheel system cause tyres to explode?

Time to invest in some flicker-free led light.

i'd rather lose crr than be dead, that is a point to bear in mind

Tubs are so much nicer to ride. I dont give a damn for 0,5 watts lost over tubeless setup. Even instalation process is much faster and simpler with tape

Thank you for both vids. You only did what anybody would have done. I think is is STUPID to have a product on the market that only works with specific items. How does the average person know? The wheel should have warning signs on it. Max pressure on the tire is usually 1/2 the amount of pressure it would take to blow off the tire , at fully loaded state. What is wrong with hooked rims anyway?

I think the RF is 1.5 for road hookless. I'd stick with tubs and a bit of additional Crr and less tyre choice than risk a tyre dismount situation on a high speed decent like the Puig.

Looking at the documents for the wheels from the manufacturer states approved tires are tested on semi hookless not hookless rooms. I think 28 are the answer to your problem, but curious what Conti says

Just out of curiosity, why did you take the original vid down?

I’m guessing it must be a faulty tire situation. You should try the same experiment on your rear wheel/tire to see if it does the same. If it does, it’s most likely the rim

How on Earth did you get Continental to respond? They have Black Hole customer service. How did you contact them?

I just read through the CyberDisc 339 manual, and it says "Following tyres models are tested successfully with semi-hooked tubeless rim" where it lists the GP 5000 S TR. I'm sorry, but what does this have to do with the hookless rims? It lists the max pressure of 25mm (which should not be used in hookless context regardless of what the manufacturer says) of 90 PSI. I personally love hookless, but Extralite is a joke.

The Extrlite freehub body use a rubber o ring as pew spring. In my opinion, it is a dead trap. The sub 300g hopeless rim is a daed trap as well.

It would be worth putting 28mm or even 30mm tires, 25 with 21mm internal rim width is way too small, you should either choose a rim with slimmer rim width or go wider tires IMO.

Mapdec is the type of guy that rides hus rims until the spokes break and then he makes a video about it and says that's no issue. I'm not a bike mechanic but I change put components before they fail. That's how it should be.

may i ask again if you install a 28c will there be no problem at all? i just want to know about it🤣 thank you

i just got a bicycle for the first time, and i went with a canyon grail (gravel bike) It has 40mm hookless carbon rims i found out now. GRC-1600 spline for dt swiss. max psi on rim is 65 tubeless. I hope this will not be an issue for me. This is a stock setup from canyon and i would hope if people had trouble with this issue it would be noticed real fast. But i dont like it when going 30mp/h downhill thinking about this :DD

Just to clarify something - the pressure inside the tire is relatively independent of the weight of the rider. A heavier rider just results in a larger contact patch with the ground. The pressure within the tire will change very little (on the order

Why is the blowout video removed?

What I find weird is that Extralite included with your wheels a manual that refers to their semi-hooked wheel-tire compatibility. Also, at several points has a warning of max beading pressure of 5bar and at the same time gives a max tire pressure of 6.5. How is this possible? From my understanding the tire's max pressure is a workable/riding pressure and the beading pressure is an absolute max. Even if Continental tell you that it was their fault, Extralite should sort their manuals and test again for compatibility.

Good video, I was going to say you were never 75kg 😂

where is the original video? Did you take it down? And if yes, why?

If you buy hookless rims don’t be surprised to find a lack of choice when it comes to tyres in the near future as I suspect the public will shy away from them due to safety concerns leaving manufacturers thinking what is the point. They’ll be the Betamax of tyres…

Original video is gone (private). Did you get threatened with legal action or something?🤔 I sincerely hope not.

Did the tyre bead break or could the tyre be used as is ?

WHy they dont put size of tyre ? All other had 28mm or so..this one not. I would recommend contact wheel manufacture.

The Jury is out on this but it needs further investigation Probably 25 is too narrow but recommend tyres need to be on the side of caution

Let us just all go hooked rims bin the hookless trash and forget about it.

the rim is too light ( under 300g ) It flare out under pressure, induce tthe blowout

That approved tire list is no good. 1 - It doesn't list any sizes for that tire. 2 - Extralite uses the same list across all their hooked/semi-hooked/hookless rims. Which tells me their testing is insufficient.

Conti will blame the wheel. You’ll see.

that 'guy' is normally pretty good, not this time

👍🏽

I work for Extralight and I demand that you delete videos about blow outs and apologise immediately! We need to sell these wheels!

Watching this video with your lightning is painful. I had to give up.

The pressure margins are unsafe

Continental sais 25mm tires with max 21mm internal rim width.

I have to say that bloke came across as a know it all clown who just doesn’t get engineering practice at all - good to hear that there will be a (hopefully serious) analysis involving the manufacturer(s) concerned.

I’ve always felt hookless was a stupid idea and an unsafe one at that. I’ll never buy hookless rims.

100%

The guy justifying hookless owns a bikeshop and he probably have loads of it in his inventory.

This is not the first time we have fallen in love with a really bad idea.

Well that was rather embarrassing, Mapdec came across as a smart arse and only succeeded in exposing his ignorance. If he has any integrity he should apologise. Would be interesting to see the results using other variables such as weight and temperature. Although, that should be Continental's work.

I hate that you have to justify that your 1 percent possible deviation in air pressure was tested as much as you did. If the bike industry is going to require that level of accuracy, maybe their 6 grand frames should have better made circles made in them as well. Maybe our bearings wouldn't creak. Shame on the entire industry for any of this nonsense.

Hookless saves the manufacturer money and costs you in safety.

If you care, adjust your shutter-speed on your cam to not-a-multiple of your electric current frequency when using artificial light. I.e. in 50Hz countries, do not set your shutter to 1/50s or 1/100s. That is where the flicker on this clip comes from ;-) Oh, and hookless is pointless, no discussion. Run tubeless hooked, there is NO reason to omit that safety standard.

its the wheels not the tires mate..they're shite

What cracks me up is roadies will argue and adamantly point out how important wearing a helmet is and then install hookless rims on their bikes.

The key here is that 5000 S TR is NOT on the "not compatible" list - forget the compatible list because it refers to semi-hookless, which is what the dense fellah kept using as an argument. The valid argument is, if it's not on disallowed list it's allowed as long as it's hookless compatible and 5000 S TR is. The dense one then couldn't explain why he claims that 5000 S TR is not compatible. It's been a while I came across someone that challenged in the brain area.

Jay Vine crashed at the Vuelta - but look at his rear tyres - m.kzfaq.info/get/bejne/l7ByapuVtbzcnWw.html hooked rims wouldn’t do that? The front looks to be partly off the rim too

That guy just wanted to create a controversy to get more views. Don’t worry about him, it’s not worth your time.

And to add. One bad wheel brand and maker does not make whole solution wrong. Remember when some carbon bike frame broke (i think it was SL7 or so). Does it mean all carbon bikes are bad now and we should ban? Common. Try another wheel. You should complain about wheel manufacture not the solution.

Why make assumptions about hookless, 25s @ 5 bar when using two brands that haven’t proven themselves in the technology? Go with Schwalbe or Vittoria and a wheel brand with more R&D resources than a small company like Extralite.