Forester Wilderness Gearing Explained

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Forester Wilderness Gearing Explained

Рет қаралды 1,750

Matthew Heiskell

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 58

@Databyter 4 ай бұрын

A factor that many should consider regarding the Wilderness, is tire size. Many Wilderness drivers are more Serious about softroading capability, and are going to put larger tires with taller sidewalls on them for airing down offroad, and even having an advantage going over obstacles when aired up at low speeds. The increased torque and lower gearing makes getting larger wheels a much more efficient deal. You still have decent torque, considering the upgrade. But because you have effectively increased the final gear at the tire itself, you get slightly improved freeway mileage IF you didn't go out and overkill buy some heavy truck tires. I bought lighter than stock rally wheels (Motegi MR139), and 2 sizes larger (245-65-17) NON LT purpose built crossover Falcon AT Trails. There are 2 versions at that size, one is for trucks and is overkill for load rating, the other is designed for Rav4's and Subaru's and similar, and is fairly light, with tough sidewalls, etc. Keep in mind that in my case I am talking Outback Wilderness, but I believe that the same considerations would apply to the Forester, just slightly different wheel and tire choices. I saved 7lbs. per corner over like sized LT All Terrains in that size. So in my case, with oversized tires, I still have plenty of power and large tires offroad, and when I am cruising on the freeway, I get better than advertised MPG. The bad news is that you will get much WORSE MPG on surface streets. You can help this by switching to manual drive once you are at cruising speed, and making sure that you are in top gear, because you almost always are NOT. Even on the freeway, it usually only goes up to 7th gear, because it's tuned for the other non mod'd gear ratio. Once I hit freeway speed, I go to manual, put it in 8th, and my MPG is dramatically improved, and it even does fine on moderate upgrades, but if you see it getting down below 1500 rpm on a hill, show some mercy and go down to 7th, or whatever is required. I always use the automatic for accelerating up to cruising speed, and I try to aim for about 2K rpm power range. Once I am at or close to cruising speed, I go to manual and click up to the highest gear I can get into, because this car has plenty of power and doesn't need to be so wound up. I get about a 4-6 MPG difference per tank when I do this. Databyter

@MatthewHeiskell 4 ай бұрын

Right on the money, Databyter! I was going to compare the top gear difference too, but I decided to keep it simple. The Non-Wildy has 11% higher gearing than the Wildy. This helps explain the wildy's reduced highway MPGs. BUT adding taller and lighter wheels and tires makes it have roughly 10% higher gearing. Bringing highway MPGs back up. I've found the same trick with shifting over into manual mode and selecting 8th gear. Nothing else is this capable off road while being as affordable, efficient, safe, comfortable, and reliable!

@JonDZ_Adventuring 4 ай бұрын

Good explanation Matty! When I got the Honda with a 20.4:1 crawl ratio, people on social media would say “but, he still doesn’t have 4Lo” like it didn’t make any difference whatsoever that the gearing was really aggressive. It does in fact make a difference, especially on the higher altitude trails like Imogene Pass. Looking forward to when you give that trail another go, it’s going to be night and day.

@MatthewHeiskell 4 ай бұрын

Hey Jon! Thanks for taking the time! I agree, you don’t need low range if your first gear and diff gear is good. Low range is a nice to have, but clearly not a requirement to do a vast majority of the popular trails. True 4WD is also a nice to have, but AWD gets it done (and more fun too!)

@ImaYam 4 ай бұрын

We need tech more foz wilderness content like this, thanks for this information! Keep em coming

@MatthewHeiskell 4 ай бұрын

Thanks! 😄 will do! I plan to take both of them out to the dunes and compare their steep sandy hill climbing ability. Both have the same tires now, so it will be a very good test.

@AmirSharon 3 ай бұрын

Very important info. Thanks a lot.

@MatthewHeiskell 3 ай бұрын

Glad that you enjoyed it! 😄

@AmirSharon 4 ай бұрын

In addition the wilderness has an oil gearbox cooler that cool the system .i installed one as you toughtt on your 2019 Forester its awesome. Excellent explanation. on my Forester Sport 2021 there is also on the rear diff Torq Locker from Torq Masters it is great Off road ond ok on road .

@MatthewHeiskell 4 ай бұрын

Yeah, having a transmission cooler from the factory is nice perk of the Wilderness, but adding one is pretty easy and affordable. Did you add a scan gauge as well? I considered the locker, but I think that x-mode already does an excellent job of managing the open diffs.

@AmirSharon 4 ай бұрын

@@MatthewHeiskell i have a V Gate OBD with an app Active OBD that showes the tmp in real time. The dual XMode is good but with Torq locker its another level .the wilderness has a unic new Torq Locker it will be a beast . On my 2021 Forester Sport it makes a very big chamge off roading wirh less spinnigs wheels and much less efforts.

@MatthewHeiskell 4 ай бұрын

I'm glad to hear that the locker has been an improvement for you. Are there any down sides?

@AmirSharon 4 ай бұрын

@@MatthewHeiskell The downside can be if i take a hard turn with full throttel it can slide a bit ,(the back of the car) ,but on curves or hard turnes if i push hard the brake Torq system operates on the wheel speed monitoring with the brake gently. it a fare price to pay,the car still very stable. but if you drive normal you hardly notice,also in a turn you will hear cluncks from the locker sometime,i find it nice to know it there.

@kieranstevens2688 4 ай бұрын

For anyone wondering, my 2017 fxt sits in the middle of the two models shown with a final drive of 4.11 and a first gear of 3.50, putting it at a crawl ratio of 14.38. Don't ask about the 2.35 reverse ratio...just think about the extra 70hp and turbo noises haha

@MatthewHeiskell 4 ай бұрын

Haha, that reverse ratio on the fxt was a real blunder. I’ve seen videos of them unable to back up because of a small rock behind one of the wheels.

@reidridesbikes 4 ай бұрын

Your channel has me reconsidering buying an Outback. Great videos, thanks for the simple breakdown. Compare to OBW/other comps next!

@MatthewHeiskell 4 ай бұрын

Okay, the Outbacks are a little more tricky. They changed diff gears midway through the model year. Different gears for the 4 cylinder, 6 cylinder, and turbo 4.

@kevinzhang6675 4 ай бұрын

@@MatthewHeiskellcan you elaborate on that for a 24 outback wilderness?

@jellipig Ай бұрын

its not about being in the powerband as it is about have a mechanical advantage with more wheel torque with a lower crawl ratio. Wheel tq = engine tq x crawl ratio. being closer to peak power (more revs at lower speed) is a secondary benefit.

@fr33rid3r33 4 ай бұрын

Nice!

@MatthewHeiskell 4 ай бұрын

Thanks! 😄

@MrGunnerru 2 ай бұрын

Cool. Thx

@aidanbustos7170 4 ай бұрын

What highway mpg are you getting? I love the bumper!

@MatthewHeiskell 3 ай бұрын

Thanks! Both of them get 30+ mpg on the highway at 65mph. You can get the same at 70-75mph if you let adaptive cruise control follow an 18-wheeler tractor trailer.

@bruceyyyyy 4 ай бұрын

You know you have to go up obstacles in reverse to get the best crawl ratio. What's odd is the cones are the same in forward and reverse. Theoretically you have 6 or 8 etc reverse ratios. Subaru just locks you out of them.

@MatthewHeiskell 4 ай бұрын

haha, I promise I'll try reverse if I ever hit the gearing limit going forward! My non-wildy just BARELY did Imogene Pass unassisted. I can't wait to go back and enjoy the wildy's 26% better gearing!

@mattnucci7716 4 ай бұрын

@@MatthewHeiskellbarely how? I got Imogene in August, Telluride going north, 4200lb all up FB25 Outback 4.44 gears 29s Torq Locker and dual range, what was your (almost) shortcoming

@MatthewHeiskell 4 ай бұрын

@mattnucci7716 We went toward Telluride, there were two steep sections near the peak where the throttle was pinned and the car was advancing very slowly. Doing the trail the normal direction, the way that you went, is a bit easier. Your 4.44 diff gears sound super nice! The FW has 4.11 which was a big upgrade from 3.70. But your dual range was your real trick! What's the ratio reduction of it?

@mattnucci7716 4 ай бұрын

@@MatthewHeiskell manual Outbacks have 4.44 stock. The trans has 1.447 low and a 3.45 first gear, built by ZF Designs with parts from All Drive Subaroo. Also sprung for a front LSD

@MatthewHeiskell 4 ай бұрын

That's super cool!

@Traveler1965 4 ай бұрын

Thanks for this information. I noticed in some other off road videos that they turned off the traction control when they were testing the X Drives modes. Why is that? And should we also do that in heavy conditions

@MatthewHeiskell 4 ай бұрын

Good question! Turning x-mode ON and traction control OFF allows more wheel spin while still letting x-mode re-distribute the torque using the 4 brakes. If you have “dual function x-mode” or “x-mode level 2” or “x-mode deep snow/mud” it’s the same thing. In my wilderness, when I hit x-mode 2, the yellow traction control light illuminates, indicating that it’s disabled.

@Traveler1965 4 ай бұрын

@@MatthewHeiskell are the gear ratios published for the two Xmodes?

@MatthewHeiskell 4 ай бұрын

X-mode is not a different gear ratio, it’s a fancy traction control system.

@AmirSharon 3 ай бұрын

x-mode 2 is great!! saved me in mud and slippery terrain conditions.

@mattnucci7716 4 ай бұрын

@1:33 closer to making peak power? Any power

@MatthewHeiskell 4 ай бұрын

Yeah getting those RPMs 26% higher helps lock the torque converter too, improving efficiency and decreasing the heat added to the transmission.

@edrohler 4 ай бұрын

How do these numbers compare to a vehicle with 4L or is that possible to determine? Also, have you considered adding the Torq locker?

@MatthewHeiskell 4 ай бұрын

Good questions! It takes some additional math to incorporate tire size, but a stock Forester Wilderness has the exact same OVERALL gearing as a 3rd Gen Taco on 33s in 2nd gear Low Range. Pretty dang impressive! I have ZERO plans to add a rear locker because X-Mode does an excellent job managing the open diffs. If you don't have X-Mode, then you should 100% add a rear locker.

@Databyter 4 ай бұрын

@@MatthewHeiskell I have the 2024 Outback Wilderness, and I was very impressed at this latest generation of AWD logic. It is very effective offroad, and like you I haven't felt that it needed a locker, tho in the past I have looked at past models and thought that would be a good idea. The Wilderness builds seem to be very nimble and have great Xmodes. And I remind everyone that NORMAL mode IS an Xmode, and is USUALLY the one you want to be in. It is in the middle of two fuzzy logic behavioral extremes between more wheelspin for momentum in mud and sand and deep snow, and less wheelspin for other situations where you are trying to get more traction to get past a slippery situation. But there are downsides to both. Xmode 1 is overkill, works your brakes and your engine more than is necessary and kills MPG. Likewise Xmode 2 (which is actually Xmode3), is only necessary or helpful in some very specific situations. You are better off being in Normal mode, which uses the SAME torque vectoring engine, with a strategy in between two extremes, and the compromise between these two extremes, is right where you want to be 95% of the time, even offroad in the dirt. I've only used Xmode a few times (Xmode 1), to extract myself from deep sand from a full stop. And it worked. I didn't even need to air down, but Normal mode was allowing just a wee bit too much spin. You wouldn't want to leave it in Xmode 1, because it is very intolerant of differential speeds and will constantly be applying brakes to all of your wheels. Completely un-necessary. Databyter

@MatthewHeiskell 4 ай бұрын

Right on the money again, Databyter! I'd just add that turning X-Mode on, either mode, makes the car more aggressive with applying center clutch pressure. I too usually run everything normal unless I'm about to hit a tricky obstacle.

@Databyter 4 ай бұрын

@@MatthewHeiskell That's interesting. I have never heard that before. Is there a source for that that I could take a look at?

@MatthewHeiskell 4 ай бұрын

I found a paragraph about it while reading the Subaru service manual.

@valdius85 4 ай бұрын

Q: can you feel it while driving?

@MatthewHeiskell 4 ай бұрын

Good question! It feels the same during normal driving. I monitor the CVT ratio range with my ScanGauge. It doesn't use that lower ratio range unless you accelerate hard from a stop (noticeably better initial acceleration) or during slow steep technical off road use. It helps tremendously offroad!

@ludovici42 4 ай бұрын

Absolutely! I am coming from an '06 FXT (turbo, MT, with 4.11 final ratio). '1st gear' in my '24 FWE is noticeably shorter than 1st in my FXT, allowing me to remain in the powerband while crawling at a lower speed....something like 3-5 mph rather than the 11 mph required to maintain boost in the FXT. The FWE just humbly putts up whatever slope I point it toward.

@MatthewHeiskell 4 ай бұрын

Right on! Subaru really gave us the gearing that we needed for off-roading.

@michaelptm2269 3 ай бұрын

So you bought a 2024 wilderness?

@MatthewHeiskell 3 ай бұрын

Yes, my wife drives the 2019 Forester now. I got the 2024 Forester Wilderness for the 26% better gearing. That was the only thing that I didn’t like about the 2019. Otherwise I think it’s a perfect car.

@michaelptm2269 3 ай бұрын

@@MatthewHeiskell how would you rate the reliability ? Im considering a forester like yours.

@MatthewHeiskell 3 ай бұрын

I HIGHLY recommend the Subaru Forester. Here’s KBB’s list of the top ten most reliable vehicles. The Subaru Forester is #6 and if you look at the points, it’s very close to the best. www.kbb.com/car-news/consumer-reports-lists-ten-most-reliable-cars/

@michaelptm2269 3 ай бұрын

@@MatthewHeiskell Thanks, that’s awesome I’m going to check it out now. Any thoughts or knowledge of the new forester wilderness 2025?

@MatthewHeiskell 3 ай бұрын

From what I’ve heard, the 25FW will be the same as the 24FW, like my new one. The 25F non-wildy will be the new model, complete redesign