Forged will deform in the event of failure, cast items tend to break which causes catastrophic failure, the only down side to forged material is its expansion rate under heat so you need to properly warm up an item with a forged piston

I think if wiseco had their own line of cast pistons they'd double their sales

Definitely dodged the forged temperature conversation

Some decent info but a great deal of misinformation. They are comparing their own cast piston to their own forged piston, not an OEM cast piston. Avoiding a question about thermal expansion and heat dissipation which is the common downside to forged pistons aside from cost. Both are great options but they are dependent on usage, machine-ability of the block/piston to get your clearances, RPM, and torque. It's not as simple as get the stronger one. Would have appreciated a technical person answering the questions rather than a marketing person repeating what's in the brochure/marketing packet :-/

forging aluminum turns it into a wrought aluminum; wrought aluminum alloys can be 'stronger' (wtvr stronger means) but will make the alloy conduct heat much better and b/c the crystalin structure is more symetricall aligned, thermal expansion is also greatly increased with temp rise. There is zero reason to have forged pistons in anything but a track only car. Onto the interviewee, anyone who evades answering the question asked is either a salesman, politician or attorney.

Just so you know, the reason he didn’t speak about heat or longevity is because forged pistons expand more under heat than cast pistons, and so they are manufactured with more clearance when they are cold. This leads to ‘piston slap’ which causes additional wear on your block. Bear in mind that he is trying to sell these pistons. Forged pistons should ideally only be used in racing or really high horsepower applications, they will cause your engine to need either a new block or resleeved sooner than using a cast piston.

Wiseco makes a beautiful product. I think their ring grooving and pin towers are especially well made.

It's funny how the guy dodged when he asked about heat😂

Cast for the long 🏃 forge for 🏎

Forged pistons are typically better for high performance applications like racing. They are much stronger than cast and handle heat better. However, they expand and are much more expensive to make.

Both seem like marketing people that don't really know their shit...

Blew my Wiseco in less then a year, it cracked on the thin wall and scored my cylinder wall. Raptor 660.

Thanks Louie. I had always heard that Wiesco forged pistons were the best but never the reasons why.

Notice he didnt talk about expansion. Guys that run fordged know that if they dont give enough warmup time the expansion of the fordged piston is way slower so they dont honk on a cold engine or the fordged guy will blow it up.

For the average Joe cast pistons are usually meet most applications, unless of course the application is calling for boosted or turbocharging where high temps are involved.

Thanks a million guys. You're awesome.

Worst mistakes I ever made on my sled was running forged pistons. After religiously watching my operating temps they still cold sieze. Learned the hard way.

I am not a race car mechanic but I am a diesel mechanic for 12 years. Most engine failures ive rebuilt is a result of heat. The pistons melt once lubrication or cooling becomes insufficient and at this point your its already to late to save the engine. If you don't shut it down it will usually ends in catastrophic failure like throwing a rod or piston through the engine block. Point is heat and lubrication is really more important then actual strength or grain direction of the components. If you don't have proper function of heat dissipation or lubrication good luck. Only exception is incorrect timing and having valve interference but valves usually break before a piston.

4 yrs in my RMK with Wiseco. Stock 2yrs

Aftermarket raptor 660 piston is 25$ Wiseco Piston 150$ Huge price different and my cheap after market has lasted as long.

They say piston velocity is the killer of cast pistons. 3500 feet per minute or 5500 rpm in your 427 big block Chevy, which has a crank stroke of 3.76”

Forged pistons expand more during heat absorption so the gap between the cylinder wall has to be greater to compensate... So your cold starts will see piston slap until it warms up which is damaging the engine bore.

the most important difference is rate of expansion,forged piston expand more so they need more piston to cyl wall clearance ,translate to piston slap when engine cold,so it is not good for daily drive cars,AND HE KNEW NOTHING ABOUT IT!!

This video was awesome exactly what I was wanting to hear well needing

Nice to now my V8 Cayenne has forged pistons - she’s 16 years old and revs at 6500-7500 without problems

Nothing wrong with cast. Tighter tolerance weight ends up being like half gram difference. Don't expand and whipe out cylinder bores. If v8 chevys are holding 700hp on cast pistons w boost u can't tell me ur 50hp bike needs forged

I know the difference since I was 15y lod and that was 22y ago....when I was 1st grade secondary school for Mechanical tehnician....now I am an engineer.but for casting metods now you can inject the material into the mould from the bottom and in that way the gravity does its part and it makes a product more stiffer than moulding it in traditional way

Drinking game: take a shot every time this guy says “ok?”

Its obvious why a forged piston is stronger but I would have really liked to have seen apples to apples with the pistons they had displayed...they had two TOTALY different bore sizes between the two they comparred...huh

Awesome Video, I will always use Wiseco products, I have there Pro X piston in my yz125 and even the way I ride, have fantastic luck with Wiseco and Pro X and will always use Wiseco products and Wiseco also has one of THEEE best gaskets sets on the market

Nice video and really good and simple explanation. Thank you!

Mmmm avoiding to answer questions

I like how he called it jewelry lol

The coating looked the same on both pistons ... Wouldn't the engraving do damages to the bore walls ? Or would tey fill up with coating after run time and cause burn/ scuff of the area where the sediment fills in the engraving ? Wouldn't this cause a lag in motion of piston ? Slowing down the rod travel as the crank tries to spin fast and burn up a roller bearing ? Premature firing / fowling plugs ? Curiosity killed the 🐱 (97 arctic cat thunder chicken 900 triple) ... Had wiseco pistons ... Exactly where the logo was is where it was worse in the jug and on the piston ... Would love to know more about this inevitable pre existing issue as it did same thing on my 94 ... Same place - nearly the exact same pattern ... Ironically !

I put a set of their racing pistons in an Evinrude outboard that I had and it made a huge difference in power.

I just bought a Namura forged piston for a ' Zook LT 230 S quad, wow it seems heavy, I hope it doesn't overpower some other weak spot on the engine, I'm already expecting the clutch to need replacing.

Same issues on my 96 skidoo 670 mach build with wiseco pistons !

To raise compression back to normal and to make your old worn out dirty Pistons look new Ron and Jen at 5000 RPMs and pour in water

Molecular? We are far from molecular level. Crystalline. Metal crystallizes as it transitions from liquid to solid. Forging breaks the crystals into much smaller fragments and in general causes the material to be tougher.

Wiseco needs to R&D some 4032s for Speed3s/FoSTs/FoRSes/FiSTs. Mahle did an amazing job doing so. Not everyone wants to run 2618s. Sure, they're strong, but they have much shorter service life and 4032s are much better for a performance daily driver. And this "Rep" is a crackpot if he thinks there's no real difference in service life between hypereutectic and forged pistons o.0

I think this must be day 2 at the convention they are at because this guy looks like he was trying to come down from some magical trip after just being woken up from the hotels' bathtub and told he must answer some questions. Up until he gets into it lol

NEW wiseco piston didn't make it passed the break in period., piston skirts were already scuffed, Standard bore...RM125

the way i see it, would i rather a piston absolutely destroy my engine or would I rather just have one piston be totally destroyed in the event of failure?

Totally avoided heat dissipation question for a reason... Cast all the way folks, do your homework..

I use wisco pro lite piston in all my two strokes dirt bike a work very well and will stay with wisco pro lite piston two rings they have worked well in my yz 85 and 125 and my Suzuki 250 wisco is one fine product in my book and that's what I choose too run in my 2 strokes dirt bikes I have I only put the pro lite piston kit with gaskets complete top end kit michaelholden1 out of north Carolina said that

i have been told not to run wisecos in my polaris IQR and only run the polaris oem pistons because the wisecos are known for failing and basically destroying the whole motor

Well if you're going to race forged pistons will work but on start up it'll wear like hell , where cast is better at starting your bike cold and won't wear your engine as much and it's better for the average rider , so it makes no sense to use forged pistons because you will endup spending money on barrels if you don't race it

Hahaha changes subject or act dumb... He chose both

"Heat Absorption... ?" Let me rephrase that "Longevity... ?"

How can I get in touch with you about ordering a stock piston and rings 2 rings on the 2006 ya 85 what's the best type too use please send me some information on ordering a complete rebuild top and kit complete with gaskets and everything needed to rebuild topend on 2006 yz85 with stock bore would like to have doomed style piston makes more compression thanks again Michael Holden out of north Carolina said that thank you on such a great video

Yeah Great Explanation & Very Good Quality Pistons and Black Piston Coating.

so basically other than being lighter and a little stronger, no difference. totally dodged the heat dissipation and longevity questions.

Outstanding review.

"Ok? ok? ok? OKAAAAAY!!!" lol

They should try make CNC pistons to

where in Canada can i get some good quality cast pistons like those PROX he had on display ? 550 fan brp big bore if possible .

What about life of the part? Well how clean you keep it, how you drive it...blah blah... how clean you keep your filters... blah blah... and I don't know if there is a real benefit one vs the other with cast vs forged pistons" in regards to longevity. Well thanks for that bit of truth at the end of your rambling answer. I would like to hear an actual unbiased answer here as to whether or not forged pistons are worth the extra cost, especially under typical conditions where a small difference would not justify the expense.

What are them pro x pistons made out of?? Forged or cast??

Oh man all these comments. So I’m about to invest in new parts for my 2009 summit 800R. Forged or cast ?

Why aluminum? Titanium is way stronger and the weights are pretty close. I assume the weight to strength ratio would go in favor of titanium same with heat tolerance but wouldn't that make for more shaving of the weight for the same application for even more hp, responsiveness, higher rpm...

Great video, really useful

It's all about the tune folks...

Great explanation

You can tell he didn't want to say which one is better for longer time which Cast is better for Daily street hard driven cars compared to Forged that actually do end up Expanding over time. Forged is good for A Non Daily Car made more for track amd cast for daily driven cars.

Wiseco is great, if Mitch Payton uses them to their own spec they are good. People who talks down on pistons companies needs to bring context, to many variabels to talk down certain pistons.

*THE PERSON EXPLAINING AVOIDS THE HEAT ABSORPTION QUESTION AND THAT USE OF FORGED PISTONS REDUCES LONGEVITY. Forged pistons EXPAND greatly due to heat while cast tends to resist expansion. You may ask who really cares??? Well with forged, you have to compensate for heat expansion by increasing the end-ring gap of rings. This means that when cold the piston is very sloppy in the cylinder and will induce wear on the cylinder wall. An engine with forged for daily use must at least be idled to fully come up temperature first. You should therefore never start and run a forged engine without being "up to temperature"; otherwise, the engine life will greatly shorten. Cast is much better since it coefficient of expansion is much less making it much better for street use. While adding silicon to forged piston material can help to reduce expansion and adding heat coatings hide the expansion problem, cast is still a much better choice for daily use including use with turbos or superchargers. So if you drive your car daily and but go to the track only periodically, cast is better and you will be able to go 100K or more with boost. I for one do not take my car to the drag strip.*

most basic explanation ever totally one sided for forgings he glanced by any drawbacks of a forged piece or the good things about a casting even made the price seem close

So the guy compared 2 pistons with different sizes to show how less material is required, point taken. O o

Wiseco ECT want to sell u forged. There's a reason 2 strokes come from factory cast. There's a reason they are used in crazy 125 street smokers that make 55 horse

Everyone in the comments section talking about how forged pistons expand more then cast yet they failed to notice the ceramic coatings on the top of the pistons which reduces heat soak into the piston and therefore expansion. In saying that though the forged piston he showed had no coating on the top which is a bit of a head scratcher to me?

so then what would be the point in honing the cylinder with all that crap on the sides of the piston

I got Wiseco pistons and they all good after 80.000kms

This is like listening to a salesperson who has less knowledge about their products than you

you got it all

Pretty good sales pitch that guy has going on there.👍🔧🚲💸

It makes me sad that a piston manufacturer doesn't know that forged aluminium has a much higher thermal expansion rate, which means that forged pistons expand more when warmed up to running engine temperature. This means you need bigger tolerance (between piston and cylinder) when you start the engine and by the time it is fully warmed up, which means more wear for the piston itself and you burn oil!!! Forged pistons are not for everyday use!

Amazing . . .

That was a great video.

This guy needs to get out more often

you're fired!!! It does transfer heat faster because it's basic knowledge that aluminum is used for it's temperature transferring properties , especially Heat... Therefore the closer compacted molecules transfer or absorb and distribute / dissipate Heat faster to the oil and the rest of the engine.

Forged destroys cylinder walls until it warms up. It's horrible for a daily driver.

Yeah I like once they got to heat portion of video he didn't wanna comment on how casted piston is better they also run quieter than forged. Witch I hate that knock noises a forged piston give you I will only run casted pistons in 2 stroke far as maintenance vs cost of top ends

I only use wisco pro lite piston kit in all my two strokes which I only run teo strokes dirt bikes wisco makes the best piston in my book I don't like the nakamura piston they don't stay together like buying them cheap ninch cylinder I go with OEM OEM replated or buy a orm cylinder the only way to go I no people that bought the ninch cylinder with piston rings and complete gaskets for yz 85 and 2 weeks later they blew up only OEM or replated my OEM cylinder only and run wisco pro lite piston kit with gaskets and everything needed for top end job on two strokes and 40 hours later still running great only wisco pro lite piston and rings only wisco products I have run them for over 30 years there the best

Wiseco had it in my dirtbike RM 250 2 stroke worked magic ! But to my RMK... different story...

So forged or cast for 2 stroke dirt bike ?

Good video, very educational

I don't like hearing a piston manufacturer say "we got in there and hogged it out". Now saying "we CAD tested stress and structure tolerances to come up with an optimum balance for weight and strength" and that'll get me on board.

First, I thought it was an oiling issue or rebuild assembly issue. Then a cooling issue ... Still undetermined without the evaluations of many questions to conclude the exact cause / effect to damages to overcome it and make it proper in building yet a gain ... 😒

Buy cast unless you’re racing ever notice stock cast last forever

In my experience, the forged pistons expanded too much and seized my engines. Factory Yamaha cast aluminum pistons didn't have a problem. Not all aluminum casting formulas and procedures are created equal. It's a guarded secret

Did he just pick up the cast piece and say its a forged piece??? confusion

So regardless of the price what is the best to buy?

When I switched to Weisco Pistons, the first thing that I did was to polish them. I couldn't believe the difference between polishing the cast and forged pistons. A fantastic difference. Shocking. Here's a video that shows exactly what I mean. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/i62qopCCu9zcfas.html

Aluminum forging products are the result of a manufacturing method where the metal is pressed, squeezed and pounded under a great pressure to produce strong parts.The main benifits of aluminium Forging are High performance and strength,Forged aluminum is excellent for aerospace,Tools of the trade,Mark of quality ..etc refer the blog published by Aress www.indiaforging.com/blog/forging-for-the-future-the-importance-of-aluminum-forging-industry.php for detailed info about it

It is jewelry 👌

can you say tweaking

How about comparing 2 pistons for the same engine? How about talking about thermal expansion rates and how that relates to piston longevity? What about ductility and how that relates to overall strength? Every time something was brought up about a drawback to forged pieces, this guy basically deflected it and said “they’re lighter, and that’s better.” Come on man, one is not better than the other, each has its place and is better in certain areas.

Ok ethanol in your gas how is that good for any engine what are the properties of that.89 octain verses 91 octain.

Isn't forged metal made by casting???