Forging a bowl carving gouge

  Рет қаралды 61,601

Black Bear Forge

Black Bear Forge

4 жыл бұрын

Carving a wooden bowl from green wood starts with an axe and an adze. But for the final cuts a bowl carving gouge is the ideal tool. This bent neck fishtail style gouge is just the thing.
Black Bear Forge is a small one person blacksmith shop located in southern Colorado. My current focus is shifting away from commissions and customer orders and towards education through these videos on KZfaq. Thank you for watching
To provide financial support use one of the two links below.
www.paypal.me/BlackBearForge
Or you may set up a monthly contribution through Patreon
/ blackbearforge
Mailing address:
Black Bear Forge
P.O. Box 4
Beulah, CO 81023
If you are curious about some of my other interests, you may like my second channel
John Switzer
/ @johnswitzer
Find my online at:
www.blackbearforge.com
www.blackbearforge.etsy.com
/ blackbearforge
/ black-bear-forge-20986...
Below you will find useful links that will help you in your journey as a blacksmith.
My blacksmiths apron
www.Forge-Aprons.com use code BBF
RZmask 99.5% dust mask
rzmask.com?afmc=ay
To find more information in blacksmithing in the US or to search for your local ABANA affiliate group visit.
www.abana.org/
Blacksmithing tools and supplies
Self contained air hammers - www.saymakhammers.com/
General blacksmithing supplies - www.oleoacresfarriersupply.com/
General blacksmithing supplies - www.piehtoolco.com/
General blacksmithing supplies - www.centaurforge.com/
General blacksmithing supplies - www.blacksmithsdepot.com/
General blacksmithing supplies - www.blacksmithsupply.com/
Square head bolts and lags - www.blacksmithbolt.com/
New anvils - www.oldworldanvils.com/
New anvils - www.nimbaanvils.com/
New anvils -
Industrial supplier - www.mcmaster.com
Tong blanks and tools - kensironstore.com/
Fire brick and refractory - refwest.com
Most of my videos are shot on the Canon M50
adorama.evyy.net/NEnJV
Audio is recorded using the RodeLink Filmmaker Wireless Microphone Kit
adorama.evyy.net/g5vXA
I have set up a Facebook group just for you, the viewers of this KZfaq channel.
If you would like to share your work that was inspired by my videos
This is the place to do that
/ 101400907400310
Blacksmithing and related activities can be hazardous. These videos are not a substitute for competent professional instruction. Your safety is your sole responsibility. Always use appropriate safety equipment including eye and ear protection when working in the shop. Follow manufactures safety guidelines for the use of all equipment. In the event something shown in one of these videos seems unsafe, it is up to you to make the appropriate changes to protect yourself.

Пікірлер: 130
@woodsroamer6175
@woodsroamer6175 11 ай бұрын
That's a lot of work!
@rogerclark9285
@rogerclark9285 Жыл бұрын
Nice work there.
@waylandforge8704
@waylandforge8704 4 жыл бұрын
Thanks for another excellent presentation, I learn something new every time. The virus lockdown has been a good excuse to do some binge watching and I've been impressed with the way you've evolved as a presenter and the way your camera work and editing has become more sophisticated. Thanks again and stay well.
@roybailey1134
@roybailey1134 Жыл бұрын
Us carpenters have so much to help you blacksmiths for , it's an amazing skill , well done 👏 👏👏👏👏👏 best wishes from a old vintage carpenter in old England 🇬🇧
@sofianebenhadj60
@sofianebenhadj60 3 жыл бұрын
very good job
@BarrRunForge
@BarrRunForge 4 жыл бұрын
John, thank you for your videos and inspiration to many other smiths. I just spoke with a veteran who got into it, largely due to your videos. God Bless.
@pracowniaprojektowroznych
@pracowniaprojektowroznych 2 жыл бұрын
i like this spider in 10:14 which is climb on anvil :)
@Dominic.Minischetti
@Dominic.Minischetti 4 жыл бұрын
That came out awesome! If I remember correctly, you started blacksmithing so you could make woodworking tools! You were inspired by Roy! Thanks for sharing this!
@BlackBearForge
@BlackBearForge 4 жыл бұрын
That is correct.
@glennwilck5459
@glennwilck5459 3 жыл бұрын
I wonder how many people can say the same I know I can. Roy is a hell of an inspiration love that show..too bad he only had half an hour!
@whittlerdave1440
@whittlerdave1440 Жыл бұрын
I like this 1 it's your making I know this is an older video I would like to have 1 with a longer handle I can get more force and pressure down on these great big bows that I did you make instead of these
@paulorchard7960
@paulorchard7960 4 жыл бұрын
You always have my attention, another genius tool produced out of almost nothing! Talent is an amazing gift and you have plenty, thank John, sharing knowledge to all of us is very much appreciated!
@sinclairmarcus
@sinclairmarcus 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks a lot of craft work is about doing the process in the correct order. I have learnt a lot about this with this upload great upload!
@AABlann
@AABlann 2 жыл бұрын
The little white spider climbing up onto that in use anvil at 12:39 is surprising
@sonofmanarkjazz8965
@sonofmanarkjazz8965 Жыл бұрын
I appreciate you explaining what you're doing each step of the process. Thank you for the upload and the passion you put forth in your craft.
@jandastroy
@jandastroy 4 жыл бұрын
Sadly I kind of fell behind on your content since I've been so busy. But now I've suddenly got time and am looking forward to catching up on what you've been up to lately! Glad you're doing well.
@BlackBearForge
@BlackBearForge 4 жыл бұрын
The good thing about KZfaq is that the videos will still be there when you have time to watch. Thanks for coming back around to check in.
@jimhumphrey
@jimhumphrey 4 жыл бұрын
As a woodworker and an amateur blacksmith, this type of project is my favorite.
@BlackBearForge
@BlackBearForge 4 жыл бұрын
Glad you enjoyed it
@oddwoodforge2305
@oddwoodforge2305 4 жыл бұрын
This was great. I liked how the whole time you really pushed to make them what works and is comfortable for you. Instead of going by the norm. Very cool.
@eianhalsted6089
@eianhalsted6089 4 жыл бұрын
Thanks for making these videos. I really enjoy watching and learning from them.
@rafaellondono1882
@rafaellondono1882 Жыл бұрын
Todos los comentarios, son de maestros fidedignos...su karma los lleva a aprender y comprender la gran oportunidad de verlos trabajar con el ejemplo....aprecio cada explicación... abundancia, prosperidad, salud, armonía, amor, alegría,....para ud, su familia y colegas del hacer
@bluesky5542
@bluesky5542 2 жыл бұрын
Hello greetings from Moose Jaw in Saskatchewan Canada Very good work my respect. 👍
@Bootes1
@Bootes1 2 жыл бұрын
Sir, that was a pleasure to watch. Alas I'm not a metal-smith, but I sure could do with a beautiful bowl gouge like this one for my wood-smithing. Love watching your Tubes. Best wishes from the UK.
@glenmatthewwilson
@glenmatthewwilson 4 жыл бұрын
Very nice gouge! I use sandpaper glued to a dowel to sharpen the concave side of my gouges. Grind side-to-side along the edge so you don't round the bevel. It seems to work well enough, although it is a bit tedious. It's at least easy to make and you can choose whatever dowel radius you need for the particular tool.
@s.leemccauley7302
@s.leemccauley7302 4 жыл бұрын
Great tip. Thanks.
@susanp.collins7834
@susanp.collins7834 4 ай бұрын
What grit sandpaper do you use?
@hannemannironworks1651
@hannemannironworks1651 4 жыл бұрын
Thanks for sharing John!
@charlesjohnson9662
@charlesjohnson9662 4 жыл бұрын
Thanks John, great tutorial.
@gui.siqueira
@gui.siqueira 4 жыл бұрын
Love your videos and your teaching style! Thank you for sharing your knowledge
@lenblacksmith8559
@lenblacksmith8559 4 жыл бұрын
Looking good John, love the line of that gauge.
@TheOldaz1
@TheOldaz1 4 жыл бұрын
Nice gouge John, thanks for the learning.
@Lesnz2009
@Lesnz2009 4 жыл бұрын
Cool tool thanks
@johnlockstein8617
@johnlockstein8617 4 жыл бұрын
Thank you very much a lot of information and making a gouge I will have to revise it more than once to rember the information
@BCM1959
@BCM1959 4 жыл бұрын
Always enjoy watching you make things with simpler tools to help beginners and smaller shops. Making the tools to make more tools is a fantastic skill to have. I believe I heard you say you don't make many knives though I'm sure I heard you say that you have made them. Is there a video of you making a knife with simple hand tools? There are hundreds if not thousands of knife making videos out here everything from professionals with every tool imaginable to first timers with nothing but harbor freight tools and I want to hear you explain the process because the way you teach and break it all down so everyone can understand it. I like that you answer they why it's done as well as how it's done. Looking forward to the next video. Stay safe sir and thanks again for the free info.
@BlackBearForge
@BlackBearForge 4 жыл бұрын
kzfaq.info/get/bejne/eK-SlKiltc26f2Q.html
@BCM1959
@BCM1959 4 жыл бұрын
@@BlackBearForge thanks.
@ga5743
@ga5743 4 жыл бұрын
Really enjoyed this video John, cool looking gauge.
@ilemjohn
@ilemjohn 4 жыл бұрын
I love your content. So fun to watch
@grandadz_forge
@grandadz_forge 4 жыл бұрын
Learning something new every video. Thanks
@marcerivest6204
@marcerivest6204 4 жыл бұрын
Nice job, this is actually one of the tools that l need to make. As usual, great content.
@glencrandall7051
@glencrandall7051 4 жыл бұрын
Nice piece of work. I enjoyed watching. Thank you for sharing and stay healthy.
@maoribaca2655
@maoribaca2655 4 жыл бұрын
Your an excellent teacher sir thanks for keepin it up
@jeffgrier8488
@jeffgrier8488 4 жыл бұрын
I have never used a gouge of this design, but i can definitely see the merits, I really like it!
@NordicEdge
@NordicEdge 4 жыл бұрын
great video. thank you for sharing your process.
@Brian-bn3qp
@Brian-bn3qp 4 жыл бұрын
Thanks for turning my question into a video! One day I might be able to try this. Love your content!
@bobwhelk2117
@bobwhelk2117 3 жыл бұрын
That was awesome! Cheers 🥂
@rudebwoyyyy
@rudebwoyyyy 4 жыл бұрын
Its always fascinating how silent Mr. Bears anvil is. Applause applause
@BlackBearForge
@BlackBearForge 4 жыл бұрын
kzfaq.info/get/bejne/kJljaZinq668mKs.html
@jeromeranft3255
@jeromeranft3255 4 жыл бұрын
I love this video, maybe more than any thing else I've seen on this Channel.
@Jennifer-zb4gc
@Jennifer-zb4gc 4 жыл бұрын
thanks for another great video 👍
@dougmacdonald9075
@dougmacdonald9075 4 жыл бұрын
ben practicing social distancing in my shop. started watching you in January. so far my neighbor and I have built a forge withstand and some improvised anvils. the first project was a feather hook, love your hook of the day. Thanks for the inspiration it got us off the couch and out forging. working on tools and hardys, thanks for the heads up on the guy at Douglas Wy we went and got one of his guillotines, used it quite a bit so far. love your videos
@olddawgdreaming5715
@olddawgdreaming5715 4 жыл бұрын
Good morning John, great job with the bowl gouge. I really enjoyed the video. Thanks for sharing with us. Fred.
@picklesnoutpenobscott3165
@picklesnoutpenobscott3165 4 жыл бұрын
I like how that chipped die magically got fixed! glad I saw it, as I will be aware of that possibility when I use one.
@frankgaletzka8477
@frankgaletzka8477 4 жыл бұрын
Hello John It a pleasure to see you working and building the Tool Thanks for sharing your skills it is very inspiering Stay save and healthy All the best Yours Frank
@BlackBearForge
@BlackBearForge 4 жыл бұрын
Glad you enjoyed it. I hope things are staying under control in your part of the world
@frankgaletzka8477
@frankgaletzka8477 4 жыл бұрын
@@BlackBearForge here in Germany all Shops the whole Industrie is shut Down The gathering of more than 2 people are forbidden and every one had to stay at home Going out if nececary is allowed Schools were closed That goes on until April 20. 2020 But who knows it I Think that whole dilemma Last mich longer Greetings from Germany Yours Frank
@NeilGraham.I.M.F
@NeilGraham.I.M.F 4 жыл бұрын
As always nice work
@beni2094
@beni2094 4 жыл бұрын
Super video! Love when you do some wood working tools. Audio video quality is so good, really feel like im there with ya. Thanks!
@Guitarplayer724
@Guitarplayer724 3 жыл бұрын
This was a fantastic video. I enjoy carving and bowl making and I'm a fledgling blacksmith. Now I can combine them...well..maybe.. :D
@allanlavallee7171
@allanlavallee7171 4 жыл бұрын
Great video. Enjoyed that the work was done with hand tools rather than a power hammer. Beautiful finished product
@kensmapleleafretirement
@kensmapleleafretirement 4 жыл бұрын
Good fun, Thanks for the video...
@fastrivers812
@fastrivers812 Жыл бұрын
Finally, a video that actually teaches how to make a shoulder/bolster without welding on a washer. I'm so thankful for your time. Do you mind telling me the make/model of the guillotine your using and/or where I can find one like it?
@BlackBearForge
@BlackBearForge Жыл бұрын
I use a Smithin Magician, available through Blacksmith Supply
@douglasfathers4848
@douglasfathers4848 4 жыл бұрын
This tool is the reason you started blacksmithing if i remember correctly John ,cheers.
@williamsultana3848
@williamsultana3848 4 жыл бұрын
Hi John
@Zogg1281
@Zogg1281 4 жыл бұрын
That's a really nice gouge. I've actually been wanting to make some of these for my brother who loves carving spoons and kuksa's. I hadn't thought of making one in this style, but I really like it so will probably make something similar. Thanks 😊 Something I've been thinking about, with Corvid-19, is that everyone is so worried about protecting the frontline staff and showing them so much gratitude for the work they are doing, which is an awesome thing to do, but I think more gratitude should be heading in the direction of people like you who are giving up time to help us all stay sane during this awful time. Thank you for carrying on with the video's that you produce, they are a real comfort that life can and is carrying on. I think more and more people will be relying on KZfaq as a way to shut out the rest of the world for a few minutes. Thank you 👍
@ericdouglas9804
@ericdouglas9804 4 жыл бұрын
Really enjoyed this one John. I’ll get ya the dies shipped first of the week on my next “essential only “ trip to town. By the looks of that top fuller die; it’s getting about time for a new one 👍.
@BlackBearForge
@BlackBearForge 4 жыл бұрын
That is an older mild steel die, they don't hold up well.
@BigHat83
@BigHat83 4 жыл бұрын
Drum sander in a drill press works for roughing in the inside bevel. Then a dowel with sandpaper for the inside bevel after that.
@randolphtorres4172
@randolphtorres4172 4 жыл бұрын
THANKSGIVING
@GodschildinNC
@GodschildinNC 4 жыл бұрын
thank you for doing this gouge. This inspires me to make a spoon gouge that is more of a knife, than push gouge. I think making the blade like a knife and then curving it will be the best way to go. I really like your grinder with the interchangeable wheels, and how it tensions the belt.
@BlackBearForge
@BlackBearForge 4 жыл бұрын
There are many example of curved spoon knives out there. Getting the grind nice and even along the curve is the part I find most difficult
@cameronflack2254
@cameronflack2254 4 жыл бұрын
Im not the only one who was rooting for the little anvil spider am i?
@currajeperm8418
@currajeperm8418 2 жыл бұрын
Bravooooo profesore of love albania
@johnjude2685
@johnjude2685 4 жыл бұрын
Seems now a lot advantage to them large hardy due to swedges and punching holes. Trying to figure why you seem to get lot of work done while Teaching and video speaking , Fine work you do , Hopefully it keeps going long enough to sink in my head. Sir you are the best Blacksmith teacher
@johnwesley6929
@johnwesley6929 4 жыл бұрын
What’s up john; nice work... i thought you had carved the bowl as well.
@BlackBearForge
@BlackBearForge 4 жыл бұрын
I did, but not with this tool
@klmaul
@klmaul 4 жыл бұрын
Hey John have you ever given thought to a video about belt grinders? Some of us may be considering the purchase and knowing the pros and cons and what to look for would help when considering a major purchase such as this. Just a thought. Keep the videos coming, they are truly inspirational.
@BlackBearForge
@BlackBearForge 4 жыл бұрын
kzfaq.info/get/bejne/i5mGZcV2qrjPZKc.html
@jbickel7575
@jbickel7575 4 жыл бұрын
I thoroughly enjoy your videos. I appreciate your craftsmanship and how you present. I have absolutely no knowledge of blacksmithing. A question I’ve had for some time now is how do you know how much material to start with? Regards, John.
@BlackBearForge
@BlackBearForge 4 жыл бұрын
When it really matters there are various mathematical formulas and rules of thumb. Then you make test pieces until you've got it just right. But fr projects like this, it isn't that important to have an exact finished size, s I make a wild guess.
@donataspimpasas
@donataspimpasas 4 жыл бұрын
I had no idea it’s so complicated
@FahadDono
@FahadDono 4 жыл бұрын
hi 🖑
@sarahhoward9081
@sarahhoward9081 4 жыл бұрын
I'd kind of like to see a bowl carving knife. The he all in one bowl carving tool
@BlackBearForge
@BlackBearForge 4 жыл бұрын
There is certainly no all in one tool. I use an axe, adze, gouges and knives for bowl carving (on the rare occasion I get to carve a bowl)
@GypsyJvan
@GypsyJvan 2 жыл бұрын
great video, thanks...have u tried a carving axe or a adze ?? Black Art Forge..
@johnjude2685
@johnjude2685 4 жыл бұрын
Dremal I think maybe grind it so my method first try, Thanks
@fullflavor5
@fullflavor5 4 жыл бұрын
Man your rough on coffee cups that one looks like it has been thru two or three wars !ol!!!!
@BlackBearForge
@BlackBearForge 4 жыл бұрын
I've had this one for something like 25 years and it still works just fine
@user-um8zt9vo1w
@user-um8zt9vo1w 3 жыл бұрын
👍👍👍🙏
@bradgreen7270
@bradgreen7270 4 жыл бұрын
Thanks so much for the great videos! Setting up my forge in the next month - could you talk me through the gas set up to your forge? I have the same size (two burner) and it seems you have a foot with/valve? Is your gas piped in or do you use portable propane tanks?
@BlackBearForge
@BlackBearForge 4 жыл бұрын
My gas is from a tank in the yard. But 100lb cylinders with the regulator at the tank work well.
@3870TheDad
@3870TheDad 4 жыл бұрын
Yea, John, you need to get a "handle" on that gouge.
@BlackBearForge
@BlackBearForge 4 жыл бұрын
Many people prefer to buy them without a handle so that they can make one that suits their own style
@normanmartineau7133
@normanmartineau7133 6 ай бұрын
Hi
@30mmPwnage
@30mmPwnage 4 жыл бұрын
gettin awfully close to the belt there at 23:20 John
@darrenthompson6115
@darrenthompson6115 4 жыл бұрын
Hi John, I enjoyed watching the creation of the bowl gouge. Im also a newbie to wood turning and would like to make my own turning tools. Can you offer any advise of the metal selection and creation process for say a turning bowl Gouge? I have access to many vehicle coil springs. Would they be suitable? Thanks Darren
@BlackBearForge
@BlackBearForge 4 жыл бұрын
I have used spring steel with fairly good results. However most turning tools are made from high speed steel so they will stand up to getting a little hotter in use. Just remember that turning tools take a lot of stress and breaking on while turning could be pretty dangerous.
@darrenthompson6115
@darrenthompson6115 4 жыл бұрын
That was my back ground thinking... creating a safe tool? I’m not ready to move on this yet, so more research require me thinks....👍
@clydebalcom8252
@clydebalcom8252 4 жыл бұрын
I have a question about the Hardie hole tools. Can they be anchored somehow?
@BlackBearForge
@BlackBearForge 4 жыл бұрын
They can if you need to, but it is often not an efficient use of time to secure them and then have to release it to switch tools.
@charltonjames7616
@charltonjames7616 4 жыл бұрын
Can the grinding be done with stones of different widths, and are such stones available?
@BlackBearForge
@BlackBearForge 4 жыл бұрын
I am sure if you look around on the internet you will be able to find the stones. Anything that is hand done will take longer, but it is possible.
@codylynch1159
@codylynch1159 4 жыл бұрын
What is the specific name of your buffing wheels? I've never seen that size. Thanks
@BlackBearForge
@BlackBearForge 4 жыл бұрын
These are referred to as Air Buffs because they have an open pattern. But they would be available in numerous sizes. Here is a link www.mcmaster.com/buffing-wheels/diameter~10-/
@normanmartineau7133
@normanmartineau7133 6 ай бұрын
Like your video wondering some thing if I want a gouge like you did What is your price for it
@BlackBearForge
@BlackBearForge 6 ай бұрын
Sorry, I am not taking any new orders at the moment.
@rturcotte22
@rturcotte22 2 жыл бұрын
All of my gouges are sharpened on the inside curve. This idea would have worked well had he sharpened it correctly. He sharpened on the wrong side of the spoon.
@BlackBearForge
@BlackBearForge 2 жыл бұрын
Spoon and bowl carver prefer out canal gouges, they cut the concave surface much cleaner than the in canal gouges you have.
@charltonjames7616
@charltonjames7616 4 жыл бұрын
I have some rebar that is fairly close to that length, is it a viable metal to use for this kind of project?
@BlackBearForge
@BlackBearForge 4 жыл бұрын
Rebar might work, but it has many different grades and not all will preform the same.
@cholulahotsauce6166
@cholulahotsauce6166 Жыл бұрын
When do you add a ferrule and when do you not?
@BlackBearForge
@BlackBearForge Жыл бұрын
For tools that are just pushed by hand, I don't think they are vital. But tools that will see a lot of leverage or be struck with a mallet, I like to have a ferule.
@garynipp5415
@garynipp5415 4 жыл бұрын
What is the difference between a butcher and guillotine tool? Realy enjoy your videos. Thank you and stay safe.
@BlackBearForge
@BlackBearForge 4 жыл бұрын
A butcher is a particular type of tool. The guillotine is a holder for various tool such as butchers or fullers kzfaq.info/get/bejne/oNKWlLF3r7nSd6M.html
@smacurface
@smacurface 4 жыл бұрын
Mr Black Bear ...... I'm just asking .... Sometimes it'll be great if a real close up is used. I mean real close. Even if it's edited for a moment. When you're making a point one a technique or a feature. I understand the time taken to setup and edit. I/we appreciate it. You make these videos with the idea of people get the general idea and technical information purely by observation of your process. For me and many at times you need to get up close to understand more. Many thanks for teaching the world.
@charltonjames7616
@charltonjames7616 4 жыл бұрын
I was introduced to forging by a friend who used a coke forge, I would like to create forge that is true to 1800s methods, will that be too much of an undertaking for a novice to the craft?
@BlackBearForge
@BlackBearForge 4 жыл бұрын
Starting with the basics that were available at that time is a great way to start.
@davidmorgan7586
@davidmorgan7586 3 жыл бұрын
ARE THE ARTHUR BROTHERS GETTING TO YOU YET
@tylerbingham4150
@tylerbingham4150 4 жыл бұрын
Are you going to sell that gouge in your Etsy store?
@BlackBearForge
@BlackBearForge 4 жыл бұрын
One person has asked if they could buy it, but if they don't go through, I will list it for sale.
@carlostarraza2538
@carlostarraza2538 3 жыл бұрын
Great video would like to know if you sell your bowl carving gouge I would like to purchase one from you, please let me know.
@BlackBearForge
@BlackBearForge 3 жыл бұрын
I think I still have this one available without a handle. email me at switz@mindspring.com if you would like it.
@KF0QLH-Doug
@KF0QLH-Doug 3 жыл бұрын
what did you do to your drinking cup. looks like you ran over it lol
@BlackBearForge
@BlackBearForge 3 жыл бұрын
kzfaq.info/get/bejne/nc2kmbRympfFe4k.html
@boxfortpirate900
@boxfortpirate900 4 жыл бұрын
If your short on cash you can always dip the edge in a bit of hot glue a couple times. 👍
@harleyman314
@harleyman314 4 жыл бұрын
why have I never seen you use a flatter or make one or even talk about one
@BlackBearForge
@BlackBearForge 4 жыл бұрын
I guess you weren't paying attention. Generally I go to the treadle hammer to use a flatter since I don't have a striker available. But I also use one of a different design regularly under the power hammer. Here is a link to one made for a video. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/hrBkgtqe2JfXpWg.html
@kirbyshumay3577
@kirbyshumay3577 Жыл бұрын
should of shown the whole sharpening proscess because not one beginner new anything you just did from forgeing and sharpening
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